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SleightGirl
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎02-01-2008
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



pheath wrote:

Sisters3 wrote:
I, too, have to say that I am having a difficult time staying interested in this book. It just
doesn't seem to hold together very well from chapter to chapter and I am sorry to say that.
I feel like with the other two great choices of books, where was the great interest in this one drawn
from?
I will continue to read it as well. I am hoping that it will all make sense to why it was chosen,
in the end.
Again, I am sorry for this poor recommendation thus far... :smileysad:





I think this just goes to show how big a factor individual preferences are. The more I read this book; the more I got sucked into it. After I finished it, I told my wife that I was shocked that a book that is written on the foundation of the science of moths and a very dysfunctional family could make such a compelling read. Perhaps it comes from the fact that I rarely read fiction, and don't have a lot to compare this too since graduating from college. Oh well, I guess if I enjoyed it, I shouldn't question it. :smileywink:

Message Edited by pheath on 03-05-2008 02:33 PM


I agree with Pheath! I found the moth information fascinating.  I also think that going into all the discriptions about them really gives us a better glimpse into her personality.  This is the place where she retreats.
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ELee
Posts: 418
Registered: ‎10-26-2006
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Re: Spoiler? and Moths



krb2g wrote:
I've also changed the color of the text of the post to white --to read it, just highlight the blank space below this line.

I believe that Ms. Adams's UK publishers are selling this book under the title of The Behaviour of Moths. I think that I would have more tolerance for all the material about moths if I were reading the book with that title; I would be able to remind myself that the title let me know that I was in for a lot of moths.

 


NEAT TRICK!!  very inventive....
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SleightGirl
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



kbbg42 wrote:
I doubt sincerly that Ginny is coming into her own, with her inability to express herself to even her own family how could she ever conduct her own lectures? How do we even know for certain that Clive didn't tell her what he was going to say at the lecture, maybe she was locked up in the mind room when he was going over this? As for Maude, I can only say if I was in her place in that house with them I would be drinking too only it wouldn't be sherry it would be somthing much much stronger!!!!
 
As for everymans comments, I can fully understand them, but I have read many novels that have sucked until about halfway through and then suddenly it's like WOW I'm glad I continued with it cause it was really worth it. I hope and pray that this is one of them. Otherwise I'll really be dissapointed especially as this is the first book club I have ever been involved in.



I think the only way she can really express herself is when she's talking about the moths.  Doing a lecture about moths is probably much easier for her than talking to her family.
Reader 2
phylbo
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Reading this book produces much angst and total tiredness.  Analyzing the imagery through the psychological mode offers little toward the "point of the book!"  This is a truly dysfunctional family.  Each member is an entity unto themselves.  I feel like I am reading an attempt of stream of consciousness mixed in with a small amount of disjointed dialogue.  Reading H.James or V. Wolf at least gives me a little more insight into what I'm supposed to learn from the story.  If I sound a bit negative, I apologize.  Am I the only one who is having this trouble?
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tablyden
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Registered: ‎12-18-2007
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Forgive me for trying to play catch up as my eyes blurr reading through all the chapter posts. After skimming through everthing I decided to just jump in the conversation at this point.
 
I do believe there is possibly something other than drunkeness going on with Maud. Do you think there is possibly underlying mental illness progressive with age that might be a factor? I keep coming back to Ginny discussing time being very important to her and then on pg. 62
 
 "We all have our idiosyncrasies, especially at my age. Some people - on approaching old age - fear senility, others immobility, memory loss, confusion, madness. What I fear is timelessness, a lack of structure in my life, an endless Now."
 
As Maud is left alone is this something she suffers? As the story progresses does Ginny watch Maud get worse and wose and therefor instilling her with her greatest fear as she ages herself?
 
-Tam
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suzi966
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Registered: ‎01-29-2008
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I am also having a hard time reading this book.  The moth stuff bores me but the family intrigues me and I am curious to see where the story will go.  I have a feeling this might be one of those books were all is not as it seems with the narrator and maybe Vivi's return is only in her mind.
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boo27
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Boy am I glad I am not the only one skimming through all the moth stuff.  I want to know more about the family dynamic.  That said, I think Maud has lost her sense of purpose.  Her husband spends all of his time with the moths and endless experiments, shut away from her and makes no attempt to connect with her.  Her oldest daughter Ginny has been sucked into the moth world as well.  The one daughter that she seemed to actually have a relationship with fled the house, because she found it so gloomy and oppressive.  I am thinking that is why Maud was so against Vivi going, she was the one person she could connect with.  Maud is lonely and is obviously turning to alcohol for solace.  And her mind may be coming unhinged also.  With her kids grown up and apparently not needing her and her husband too wrapped up in his work to spend time with her, Maud seems to be floundering.
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tablyden
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I think this chapter adding Maud into the flawed family members is all part of the equation. Consider Ginny while clearly having some sort of disability which separates her from the others causing her to be shunned by her peers while away at school, have others answer for her (i.e. her mother answering what her career path will be) and assess her capabilities (i.e. the card games with the doctor). Despite all of these external assessments of Ginny, she seems to be the least flawed. I have to wonder about a comparison of Ginny and her defects with Clive's obsession for researching defects in Moths. Is there also a correlation to the discussion of choice vs. innate reaction and the characters of this story? Ginny seems to just be following along with a path set out for her and yet she is the most grounded and actually considers herself lucky to have someone else plan her life for her. On the other side you have the rest of the family who on the surface excel in their special abilities but left to their own choices they are more lost and flawed than Ginny herself.

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Laurel
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I read modern novels only often enough to be leery of them. This is a short one, though, and free. I actually like "all the moth stuff," and it's what is keeping me going. I look for metaphor, symbolism, foreshadowing in a novel, and I keep thinking that I must be seeing such here. At least I shall reserve my judgment until I finish the book. Which sister am I, I wonder.
"Truth must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for fiction is the creation of the human mind, and therefore is congenial to it." ~~G.K. Chesterton
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pheath
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Re: Spoiler? and Moths



krb2g wrote:
I'm not sure if this information constitutes a spoiler or not, so I'll mark it as such. I've also changed the color of the text of the post to white (if this action is inappropriate, please let me know and I'll edit)--to read it, just highlight the blank space below this line.

I believe that Ms. Adams's UK publishers are selling this book under the title of The Behaviour of Moths. I think that I would have more tolerance for all the material about moths if I were reading the book with that title; I would be able to remind myself that the title let me know that I was in for a lot of moths.


Jeanie0522 wrote:
I have been enjoying this novel; however, at this point I am also getting tired of the endless detailed moth talk. Perhaps all the cliffhangers and the moth talk are going to come together at some point and make sense. I think there is a wonderful story line in here, but I'm finding myself skimming through the science of moths sections to find out more about the people in the story.







I can't agree with you on this. The family trade of studying moths and butterflies is called out explicitly in the description on the back cover. I don't think a change of title would make that much difference.
-Philip
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DSaff
Posts: 2,048
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



Laurel wrote:
I read modern novels only often enough to be leery of them. This is a short one, though, and free. I actually like "all the moth stuff," and it's what is keeping me going. I look for metaphor, symbolism, foreshadowing in a novel, and I keep thinking that I must be seeing such here. At least I shall reserve my judgment until I finish the book. Which sister am I, I wonder.

I am enjoying the novel as well, Laurel. The information about moths has caused me to do searches I might not have done otherwise. I am also hoping more people are enjoying the book than I am seeing posted here.
DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
My blog: http://bookworm56.blogspot.com
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ELee
Posts: 418
Registered: ‎10-26-2006
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



DSaff wrote:


Laurel wrote:
I read modern novels only often enough to be leery of them. This is a short one, though, and free. I actually like "all the moth stuff," and it's what is keeping me going. I look for metaphor, symbolism, foreshadowing in a novel, and I keep thinking that I must be seeing such here. At least I shall reserve my judgment until I finish the book. Which sister am I, I wonder.

I am enjoying the novel as well, Laurel. The information about moths has caused me to do searches I might not have done otherwise. I am also hoping more people are enjoying the book than I am seeing posted here.


Me too!  I like learning about new things and when they are incorporated into a story like this I find myself learning and wanting to know more.  I am excited by a fresh approach, and if this novel's perspective and accouterments are not entirely successful, they are certainly a very valiant attempt.
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SweetReaderMA
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I think that Maud is drunk and that she has managed to keep up the "appearance" of perfect little wife and such all the time up until Vivien left the household and then Ginny sort of left her as well because she had her apprenticeship with clive. I think that Maud didn't know what to do with herself now that she didn't have anyone around to check up on or give advice to.

Maybe Clive thought it would be a nice surprise for Ginny if he kept the reclassification thing to himself or maybe he just felt the need to have a "one-up" on everyone in the field including his own apprentice.

Interesting thought on the dual meaning of the title. Could it be Ginny who is trapped into the life that was sort of chosen for her. I know that she seemed content by the choice and didn't seem to have any other ideas but maybe that is what isolated her as well.
These are not books, lumps of lifeless paper, but minds alive on the shelves. From each of them goes out its own voice... and just as the touch of a button on our set will fill the room with music, so by taking down one of these volumes and opening it, one can call into range the voice of a man far distant in time and space, and hear him speaking to us, mind to mind, heart to heart. ~Gilbert Highet
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detailmuse
Posts: 180
Registered: ‎01-24-2008
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

What Everyman said? Ditto!!
 
I love a novel that opens with a puzzle, a slow reveal.
 
But I hate teasing and manipulation:
p.96 "It was 1959, the year that changed everything."
p.96 "...the year--I'll never forget it--that Bernard Cartwright threw down his challenge." 
Oh boy, here we go! But the chapter dealt with neither of these, and (like Everyman) the last-sentence tease was the last straw.
 
We're 100 pages in -- let's get some forward movement!
 
And it's not that the science is smart, it's that it's uninteresting and seemingly irrelevant.

Everyman wrote:
Well, I confess it.

I am finding the perpetual angst of this book and the way too many obvious attempts to create mystery to be too much for my tastes. The end of chapter 9, "I wasn't to find out for two more years, on the day Mother died, why he was so unusually interested in it" to be the last straw. I just had to sigh and say "oh, come on." If she was truly his assistant, why wouldn't he have told her? The only point of withholding that would seem to be for Adams to add yet another cliffhanger to a book that is so full of them that it's tiring.

And the moths. Yes, the discussion of free will was interesting as a philosophical discussion, but otherwise, how could moths be made any less interesting? I tend to enjoy books whose authors take me into unfamiliar realms of activity. Trollope and his fox-hunting; normally I have very little interest in fox hunting, but Trollope pulls me into it and arouses my interest. Dick Francis and racing: I have never been to a horse race, was not raised around horses, and but for a summer when I dated a girl who owned horses have had nothing to do with them and no particular interest in them, but Francis makes the smallest details of racing fascinating and draws me inexorably into that world. The campanology of Dorothy Sayers's The Nine Tailors, the Egyptology of Peters's Amelia Peabody books, have both given me great enjoyment learning about things I didn't realize I could be much interested in. But frankly I don't find anything of this sort with Adams and her moths. After several chapters of them I never want to hear another word about moths (but I know I will).


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detailmuse
Posts: 180
Registered: ‎01-24-2008
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Yes, drunk. Maybe alcoholic by now. She apparently stumbled against the walls and knocked things off, will alcohol be a factor when she falls down the stairs?
 
Her dressing up and using makeup -- and taking awhile to greet her returning family -- also brought the possibity of infidelity to mind.
 

KxBurns wrote:
How do you interpret the scene that unfolds on pages 104 to 107? Is Maud drunk?

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detailmuse
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Interesting that Vivi is revealed to be such a job-hopper. It fits her personality, but I don't know what to make of it yet.
jed
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jed
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

[ Edited ]
I could not agree with you more. [edited by moderator]

Message Edited by KxBurns on 03-06-2008 11:54 PM
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LisaMM
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

[ Edited ]


jed wrote:
I could not agree with you more. I finished the book. [edited by moderator]



I wish you hadn't written this. For those of us still reading at the pace of the discussion, it'd be nice to find this out on our own.

Message Edited by KxBurns on 03-06-2008 11:54 PM
www.lisamm.wordpress.com
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bettymac
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap


pheath wrote:

Sisters3 wrote:
I, too, have to say that I am having a difficult time staying interested in this book. It just
doesn't seem to hold together very well from chapter to chapter and I am sorry to say that.
I feel like with the other two great choices of books, where was the great interest in this one drawn
from?
I will continue to read it as well. I am hoping that it will all make sense to why it was chosen,
in the end.
Again, I am sorry for this poor recommendation thus far... :smileysad:





I think this just goes to show how big a factor individual preferences are. The more I read this book; the more I got sucked into it. After I finished it, I told my wife that I was shocked that a book that is written on the foundation of the science of moths and a very dysfunctional family could make such a compelling read. Perhaps it comes from the fact that I rarely read fiction, and don't have a lot to compare this too since graduating from college. Oh well, I guess if I enjoyed it, I shouldn't question it. :smileywink:

Message Edited by pheath on 03-05-2008 02:33 PM




I am enjoying this book also, but I am letting the book "happen" rather than trying to guess what everything means before its time. Maybe some of the readers who are struggling are judging too quickly before Adams has a chance to "show" us why we need to know so very much about moths and this crazy family. I guess I'm taking a scientific approach to it and observing the happenings and noting the strange details but not reaching a conclusion till the "experiment" is completed. I taught high school English for 35 years and spent all that time teaching the works of dead folks so I could never ask them to explain things. It never occurred to me to tell them that they had done it wrong...I might have been curious about their reason for doing it a certain way...true there were and still are critics who thought Melvin got carried away with all his chapters cataloging whales but Moby Dick is still one of American's greatest classics...I am looking forward to asking Poppy Adams about her thought process in the development of this story...I would not presume to tell her she did something wrong or that she bored me with so much details about moths...there is a difference in saying that you don't like a book and saying that it is a bad book...naturally we don't all like the same kind of books...that we don't like it doesn't make it bad or wrong...MHO..
Betty

"Tell me what you read and I'll tell you who you are" is true enough, but I'd know you better if you told me what you reread. ~François Mauriac
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bettymac
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Is it possible that to Clive Ginny wasn't important enough to tell? Maybe it made him feel important to surprise everyone, including her.
Betty

"Tell me what you read and I'll tell you who you are" is true enough, but I'd know you better if you told me what you reread. ~François Mauriac
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