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Laurel
Posts: 5,747
Registered: ‎10-29-2006
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Great catch, ELee! Thanks.

ELee wrote:


KxBurns wrote:


paula_02912 wrote:

On page 102, Ginny was describing how Maud looked on the stairs and she seemed to recall something...the lines read "I was sure I'd never seen her in that dress before, yet it reminded me of something. I thought if I stopped trying to think of it, it would spill unexpectedly from my memory..." I wondered what the dress could have reminded her of...is it linked to something that happened to her as a child? Did Ginny really remember this or is it her adult self questioning her memory?


Great catch! Will the dress have significance later on?...
(Oh, and oops on the dual/duel typo. Maybe they will duke it out at some point :smileyhappy: )


The dress was a green and blue peacock-print evening dress, which Ginny says "was the kind of thing she had worn when she was much younger" and goes on to emphasize that it "didn't suit her age". I believe that it was the same dress Maud was wearing in the photo of her and Clive "embracing on a balcony in a foreign city" described on page 11.
"Maude is wearing a pretty peacock-print dress. She's lifting her chin and arching backwards with happiness, Clive's arms looped round the small of her back, supporting her preciously."
Its really quite sad. I think she was trying to recapture some of what she and Clive had when that photograph was taken.



"Truth must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for fiction is the creation of the human mind, and therefore is congenial to it." ~~G.K. Chesterton
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KxBurns
Posts: 1,006
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



ELee wrote:


sheshe703 wrote:
[removed by moderator]

[removed by moderator]


Guys, this is not the place to discuss future chapters. Thanks!
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bookfan08
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

In this chapter we do get a closer look at Maud  "the drunk", does she drink because she is lonely? I think she would like for her and Clive to spend more time with each other. I was a little surprised that Clive did not tell Ginny about his classification system. The information about moths and chemicals I think is a little much and takes away from the really intriguing relationship within this dysfunctional family.
dg
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dg
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎10-13-2007
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I too agree with Everyman.  Way more information about moths than I need to know.  And I'm not all that invested in the characters.  The House at Riverton was so hard to put down.  I'm not really finding that with this book, I'm sorry to say.  I had a similar experience with The Orchid Thief - a very popular book and I found myself interested in the underlying story but the book would get caught up in definitions and details about orchids that would make me forget what I was interested in prior to that.  I'll certainly keep reading and am hoping that there will be more of a story line and less moth minutiae as I get farther into the book, although I'm already beginning chapter 12, so I'm not as hopeful as I was earlier on.
EC
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EC
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎08-24-2007
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I agree with Tasses. If this was a book from the library it would go unfinished. Usually, I sail through books but this one I am having a hard time finishing. I don't even look forward to reading it. There is nothing that is keeping me interested.  This is very unusual for me because I could read 24/7.
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Everyman
Posts: 9,216
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

You're right, Karen. But the over-analysis of early chapters has been a notable feature of the previous ARC groups, too. I'm not sure why, but with so many readers all seeing slightly different things and seeing things slightly different ways and wanting to say something about the book, it's perhaps inevitable. Or perhaps it's the particular books you pick, though I think if Anna Karenina or Northanger Abbey or the Odyssey were to get this number of enthusiastic readers and receive this degree of scrutiny they would get thousands, not hundreds, of posts.

It just seems to be something about the ARC groups that inspires so many of us to scrutinize and dissect each paragraph so minutely.

KxBurns wrote:
Everyman and others, I understand the frustration you have expressed. Maybe we are overanalyzing some aspects of the book in a way that renders it somewhat tedious. I'm going to try to take slightly broader strokes with my talking points for the next set of chapters and see if this helps matters at all. (Those who wish to dissect further can absolutely still do so and I'll chime in!...)
Karen



_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
dg
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dg
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I guess Clive could have been jealous and that may have been why he hadn't told Ginny about what he was about to reveal.  Although, I don't think it was so much premeditated.  I feel like he is so caught up in his own mind and thoughts that he's not so aware of what's going on around him - doesn't seem to be conscious of what goes on in his house unless it's brought to his attention.  I'm not completely convinced yet that he was actually hiding it.
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Tarri
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Registered: ‎02-26-2007
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Well, I'm obviously in the minority, but I am really liking this book.  The story captivated me from page one and I can't wait to find the answers to all the mysteries the author has woven into the story.  But I don't enjoy the moth information and will admit to skimming right past all the scientific data. 
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dubbuh
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Registered: ‎02-04-2008
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I enjoyed reading this book and haven't made a significant connection with the moth information except that it goes along with the idea of there can be a lot of gross stuff underneath even the most attractive families.  It also explains how Clive thinks.  What has jumped out at me in every one of the chapters are the secrets this family has and Ginny's taking on the responsibility of the happiness of everyone around her.    Even the way she is "telling" us the story is painfully slow and calculated like she's protecting us or preparing us for the unpleasant things in her life.
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KxBurns
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



Everyman wrote:
You're right, Karen. But the over-analysis of early chapters has been a notable feature of the previous ARC groups, too. I'm not sure why, but with so many readers all seeing slightly different things and seeing things slightly different ways and wanting to say something about the book, it's perhaps inevitable. Or perhaps it's the particular books you pick, though I think if Anna Karenina or Northanger Abbey or the Odyssey were to get this number of enthusiastic readers and receive this degree of scrutiny they would get thousands, not hundreds, of posts.

It just seems to be something about the ARC groups that inspires so many of us to scrutinize and dissect each paragraph so minutely.

KxBurns wrote:
Everyman and others, I understand the frustration you have expressed. Maybe we are overanalyzing some aspects of the book in a way that renders it somewhat tedious. I'm going to try to take slightly broader strokes with my talking points for the next set of chapters and see if this helps matters at all. (Those who wish to dissect further can absolutely still do so and I'll chime in!...)
Karen





I do not pick the books, but thank you for your input.
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KxBurns
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



dubbuh wrote:
 
Even the way she is "telling" us the story is painfully slow and calculated like she's protecting us or preparing us for the unpleasant things in her life.


Very well put. It is as if the true essence of the story is being slowly unwrapped. Will it be a butterfly or something more grotesque? We will have to wait to find out :smileyhappy:
 
But I wonder if it is more in Ginny's nature to be protective of her audience or is she, like Clive, more interested in setting us up for the big reveal?
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Carmenere_lady
Posts: 529
Registered: ‎11-05-2006
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Re: Spoiler? and Moths



krb2g wrote:
I'm not sure if this information constitutes a spoiler or not, so I'll mark it as such. I've also changed the color of the text of the post to white (if this action is inappropriate, please let me know and I'll edit)--to read it, just highlight the blank space below this line.

I believe that Ms. Adams's UK publishers are selling this book under the title of The Behaviour of Moths. I think that I would have more tolerance for all the material about moths if I were reading the book with that title; I would be able to remind myself that the title let me know that I was in for a lot of moths.

That's Awesome krb, how did you do that?
 
Anyway, I'm still intrigued enough by this novel to continue reading about moths, drunk mothers and the like.  My question for this chapter, Another Trap, is for whom is the trap set?  Is it for moths, Clive, Ginny or perhaps even us, the readers?
Lynda

"I think of literature.....as a vast country to the far borders of which I am journeying but will never reach."
The Uncommon Reader


"You've been running around naked in the stacks again, haven't you?"
"Um, maybe."
The Time Traveler's Wife

It is with books as with men; a very small number play a great part.
Voltaire
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pigwidgeon
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Registered: ‎01-28-2007
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap


ELee wrote:


KxBurns wrote:


paula_02912 wrote:

On page 102, Ginny was describing how Maud looked on the stairs and she seemed to recall something...the lines read "I was sure I'd never seen her in that dress before, yet it reminded me of something. I thought if I stopped trying to think of it, it would spill unexpectedly from my memory..." I wondered what the dress could have reminded her of...is it linked to something that happened to her as a child? Did Ginny really remember this or is it her adult self questioning her memory?


Great catch! Will the dress have significance later on?...
(Oh, and oops on the dual/duel typo. Maybe they will duke it out at some point :smileyhappy: )


The dress was a green and blue peacock-print evening dress, which Ginny says "was the kind of thing she had worn when she was much younger" and goes on to emphasize that it "didn't suit her age". I believe that it was the same dress Maud was wearing in the photo of her and Clive "embracing on a balcony in a foreign city" described on page 11.
"Maude is wearing a pretty peacock-print dress. She's lifting her chin and arching backwards with happiness, Clive's arms looped round the small of her back, supporting her preciously."
Its really quite sad. I think she was trying to recapture some of what she and Clive had when that photograph was taken.



ELee: I find myself agreeing with you a lot :smileywink:. I read the passage where they meet Maud at the top of the stairs, and I was thinking "peacock dress?... peacock dress?.... where did we hear about a.... OH YEAH! the photo." Then, I'm happily reading along on everybody's posts and there's your response (that could have been my own).

(raising my prop glass of milk) Cheers! to great minds thinking alike! :smileyhappy:
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pigwidgeon
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

[ Edited ]

ELee wrote:


DSaff wrote:
I felt very sad for Maud in this chapter. She seems so very lonely, so desperate for Clive's attention. I think she tried to make something nice for him, but watched her "gift" possess him. She was clearly drunk, probably trying to escape the pain in her life.


I totally agree. And what's more, her husband was an enabler. Recall, when Vivi had her accident, "Clive showed Maud into the library to get her a drink, which was what she needed at times of crisis". He apparently didn't have "time" to see to Maud's emotional needs and substituted "medicinal" alcohol ("Mother's sherry" ) for human compassion.



Couldn't have stated it better myself....

Did anyone else think, when they came home to a disheveled house, that this is where they were going to find that Maud had fallen down the stairs? I was on the edge of my seat.

no4daughter wrote: I also seems to me that, at one time, Maud may have worked with Clive as Ginny is doing now and perhaps she is jealous or knows what is to come and doesn't want that for her daughter. Maud sure seemed to know a lot about the people (she commented on the lack of women at one point) who would be at the various conventions Ginny and Clive went to and the topics they would be discussing.

Don't forget, Maud comes from a long line of lepidopterists (at least back to her great grandfather, I think). So, she has been around the study of moths her whole life, though she doesn't formally take it up herself. Maybe she attended some events (more her style) with the own father, or Clive before the girls were born.

Message Edited by pigwidgeon on 03-07-2008 03:29 PM
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pheath
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Registered: ‎02-01-2007
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



Tarri wrote:
Well, I'm obviously in the minority, but I am really liking this book. The story captivated me from page one and I can't wait to find the answers to all the mysteries the author has woven into the story. But I don't enjoy the moth information and will admit to skimming right past all the scientific data.





Here's another thought on this. If you read the first page with the note from the editor, it talks about being completely engaged from the first two lines. Is it possible that we've been caught up by the power of suggestion?

Obviously they wouldn't come out and say something like, "I really struggled with all the detail about moths, but I sure hope you have a better experience." At the same time, though, I wonder if there had been a more neutral statement or none at all if I would have thought about the book the same way...
-Philip
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Tarri
Posts: 457
Registered: ‎02-26-2007
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Of course, that's always possible; however, because I know how the First Look Book Club works (chapter by chapter), it's been very hard for me to not read ahead of the posted links.  So, for me, I don't think the power of suggestion is the reason I liked the book from the beginning. 

pheath wrote:


Tarri wrote:
Well, I'm obviously in the minority, but I am really liking this book. The story captivated me from page one and I can't wait to find the answers to all the mysteries the author has woven into the story. But I don't enjoy the moth information and will admit to skimming right past all the scientific data.





Here's another thought on this. If you read the first page with the note from the editor, it talks about being completely engaged from the first two lines. Is it possible that we've been caught up by the power of suggestion?

Obviously they wouldn't come out and say something like, "I really struggled with all the detail about moths, but I sure hope you have a better experience." At the same time, though, I wonder if there had been a more neutral statement or none at all if I would have thought about the book the same way...


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fordmg
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



Everyman wrote:
A general thought up to this point: unless I've missed it, which is perfectly possible, there is no humor anywhere in this book. I don't recall anybody laughing except for Ginny and Vivi laughing when they meet, and I think that's nervous laughter or relief laughter rather than humor laughter. I don't recall any amusing asides, any lines that made me chuckle, let alone laugh. This is unusual, I think, for novels; almost all of them include humor here and there (and often many heres and theres). But I find the the tone of this book is clinical and even gloomy throughout.

I'm sure that others have found funny lines or episodes in it. Where are they, and why did I miss them?

Not much humor, but in one of the early chapters Ginny related to how Vivian and Maud used to laugh all the time.  Ginny was never part of the fun.
MG
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fordmg
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



KxBurns wrote:
Everyman and others, I understand the frustration you have expressed. Maybe we are overanalyzing some aspects of the book in a way that renders it somewhat tedious. I'm going to try to take slightly broader strokes with my talking points for the next set of chapters and see if this helps matters at all. (Those who wish to dissect further can absolutely still do so and I'll chime in!...)
 
Karen



Oh thank you.  These chapters are so short and to do them one at a time - there isn't enough there.
MG
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katknit
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Registered: ‎01-27-2007
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I don't think Vivi left b/c she was bored. I think she left for a more ominous reason, having to do with her position in the family.
No two persons ever read the same book. [Edmund Wilson]
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kmensing
Posts: 110
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I totally agree with you & am hoping that this discussion will become more interesting now that we're grouping the chapters together instead of individually.  This worked well with our first discussion (Monsters of Templeton), don't you think?
 
 

Everyman wrote:
You're right, Karen. But the over-analysis of early chapters has been a notable feature of the previous ARC groups, too. I'm not sure why, but with so many readers all seeing slightly different things and seeing things slightly different ways and wanting to say something about the book, it's perhaps inevitable. Or perhaps it's the particular books you pick, though I think if Anna Karenina or Northanger Abbey or the Odyssey were to get this number of enthusiastic readers and receive this degree of scrutiny they would get thousands, not hundreds, of posts.

It just seems to be something about the ARC groups that inspires so many of us to scrutinize and dissect each paragraph so minutely.

KxBurns wrote:
Everyman and others, I understand the frustration you have expressed. Maybe we are overanalyzing some aspects of the book in a way that renders it somewhat tedious. I'm going to try to take slightly broader strokes with my talking points for the next set of chapters and see if this helps matters at all. (Those who wish to dissect further can absolutely still do so and I'll chime in!...)
Karen






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