Cocoons, Caterpillars, and Moths -- oh my! [ Edited ]

[Maria_H]

OK, so there aren't any cocoons, but below are several beautiful and detailed photos of caterpillars and moths supplied by Knopf.

DEATH'S-HEAD HAWK-MOTH CATERPILLAR
(credit: David G. Green/Butterfly Conservation)

DEATH'S-HEAD HAWK-MOTH
(credit: Leslie J. Hill/Butterfly Conservation)

PRIVET HAWK-MOTH CATERPILLAR

PRIVET HAWK-MOTH

LIME HAWK-MOTH
(credit: Leslie J. Hill/Butterfly Conservation)

GARDEN TIGER CATERPILLAR
(credit: David G. Green/Butterfly Conservation)

PALE TUSSOCK CATERPILLAR
(credit: David G. Green/Butterfly Conservation)

VAPOURER CATERPILLAR
(credit: David G. Green/Butterfly Conservation)

Message Edited by Maria_H on 03-05-2008 04:27 PM

[Everyman]

None of which look anything like the ones on the book cover. I would love it if they would show us moths that look like those!

[DSaff]

These are great. Thank you!

[Carmenere_lady]

Thanks Maria, great pics.  I forgot how much I like caterpillars and how it seems that there are not as many about now as when I was a kid.  Perhaps when one is closer to the ground they are easier to spot

[Des222]

Hi Maria-Thanks for these...they are beautiful! I agree with the other person on this thread: I would love to see these (or even pen & ink drawings of them) in the book. It would be an interesting addition to the aesthetics/feel of the story.

[CAG]

Thank you for the pictures.

[Teapharm03]

I would like to thank all those who provided links to the various moths found in England. I never knew there were so many different types of months. I am imagine studying them is a fascinating occupation and I can understand why Ginny's ancesters did so...These photos add so much more story. Once again thanks ...

[flyjo9]

Wow!  Thank you.  I am interested that the moth does not retain any of the caterpillar's coloring-do you know why?  Or perhaps, I  should not be so lazy and try to find out why.  LOL  Anyway, thank you for the post.  But, even though this book makes these creatures less frightening when I see one, I still shriek and shudder.  Joan

[Margaret42]

Thank you for the pictures, that is a great addition to the discussion.  I found myself just sort of blocking these creatures out of my mind when the author refers to them, probably because I couldn't really picture them in my head.

[Laurel]

The moths on the cover are butterflies. You can tell by the antennae.

---

Everyman wrote:
None of which look anything like the ones on the book cover. I would love it if they would show us moths that look like those!

---

[bookhunter]

Has anyone ever been to a butterfly house at a garden or zoo? 

Why is it that there is something magical about having a butterfly or moth land on you?

I would love to know what moths/butterflies represent in mythology and literature.  The obvious is metamorphosis..complete change from one thing to another.  What else?

Is there a tie-in to this novel?

Ann, bookhunter

[Tarri]

We went to the butterfly exhibit at the Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle a few years ago, it was incredible. 

[Peppermill]

---

bookhunter wrote:
Has anyone ever been to a butterfly house at a garden or zoo?

Why is it that there is something magical about having a butterfly or moth land on you?

I would love to know what moths/butterflies represent in mythology and literature. The obvious is metamorphosis.. complete change from one thing to another. What else?

Ann, bookhunter

---

Ann -- here is a ludicrous sequence of the possible effect of a butterfly. A friend sent it the video tonight, and I found this link, which includes the commercial in which it is imbedded:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/34744/

The American Museum of Natural History (NYC) had a wonderful special butterfly display here a year or so ago. (Has it become permanent? I'm not certain.) You could walk through an area (tropics like) and have them all about you. What bio-diversity! We loved to have them light wherever we could see them clearly, although touching was discouraged. (I dislike having a moth land on me; I also prefer to observe a butterfly.)

http://www.amnh.org/education/resources/rfl.php

I understand the Cecil B. Day Butterfly Center at Callaway Gardens Resort is exceptionally beautiful:
http://golftravel.about.com/od/georgia/ss/callaway_3.htm

This site lists locations throughout the United States:
http://butterflywebsite.com/gardens/index.cfm#usa

From Signs and Symbols by Mark O'Connell and Raje Airey:
"Many signs and symbols in nature are taken as omens of birth or death. Perhaps because it is a symbol of transformation, the butterfly is variously taken to portend either.... In Europe the death's head sphinx moth was commonly taken to predict death because of the outline of a skull on its back. The Samoans believed that if they captured a butterfly they would be struck down dead. The Celts believed that seeing a butterfly flying at night signified death, and in Christian art a chrysalis is a symbol of death." p. 158

"The butterfly is a symbol of spiritual growth and transformation...."

"Because of its metamorphic life cycle, the butterfly is an archetypal symbol of transformation, mystical rebirth and the transcendent soul. Some Australian Aboriginals regard butterflies as the returning spirits of the dead, while in Greek myth, Psyche (the soul) is often represented as a butterfly. The creature's grace and beauty make it an emblem of woman in Japan, where two butterflies dancing together symbolize marital happiness, and in China it is associated with the pleasures of life and high spirits. Someone who flits from one thing to another and is never satisfied may be described as a butterfly, while in Latin America, the Spanish word for butterfly (mariposa) can refer to a prostitute, moving from one man to the next. The Aztecs associated the butterfly with women who had died in childbirth, while for the Mexicans it was a symbol of the 'black sun' passing through the underworld during its nightly journey." p. 185

"Butterfly: Symbol of the soul and resurrection as far apart as Congo, Mexico and Polynesia. Also a symbol of life and its cycle; in Western art Christ is sometimes depicted as holding a butterfly." p. 211.

This book has no separate entries for moths except the mention on p. 158 and this on p. 199: "In some Native American traditions, moths are associated with whirlwinds because of the swirly patterns of their cocoons and the whirring noise of their wings."

Somehow, I have always associated moths with darker images than I have butterflies, but that is probably because moths are such pests in a closets while butterflies are so ethereal. Moths I am familiar with also often seem more ponderous in their flight patterns.

[Carmenere_lady]

---

bookhunter wrote:

Has anyone ever been to a butterfly house at a garden or zoo? 

Why is it that there is something magical about having a butterfly or moth land on you?

I would love to know what moths/butterflies represent in mythology and literature.  The obvious is metamorphosis..complete change from one thing to another.  What else?

Is there a tie-in to this novel?

Ann, bookhunter

---

Ann, that's a very good question. "Why is there something magical about having a butterfly land on you?"

Butterflies/Moths seem so fragile and frighten easily.  You need to be so still to have one land on you.

I have a great butterfly memory.  We went to a town south of Merida, Mexico a couple of years ago, in June.  The conditions were perfect for  butterflies.  It had just rained and flowers were blooming.  As we pulled in the driveway of the hotel yellow butterflies were there to greet us and we followed them all the way up the drive to the front doors of the hotel.  The next day as we toured the Mayan ruins, there they were again.  It was as if they were following us wherever we went.  Later, as we left Uxmal, a sea of yellow butterlies were resting on the blacktop of the parking lot.  The number of people there did not frighten them.  What a beautiful sight to behold.

[Carmenere_lady]

Pepper, thanks so much for the butterfly info, very enlightening! 

[Peppermill]

Carmenere_lady wrote: Pepper, thanks so much for the butterfly info, very enlightening!

Most welcome, Lynda Sue. Good morning! It's been one of those "bad nights" for me. Have a good day!

Your experience in Mexico sounds delightful. I noticed when searching resorts last night (I couldn't remember Callaway), there are many in a number of parts of the world that "feature" butterflies.

Message Edited by Peppermill on 03-07-2008 07:16 AM

[bookhunter]

Peppermill, I have been to the Butterfly house at Callaway Gardens and one that is part of the Tennessee Auarium in Chattanoonga.   It is an amazing experience to see so many butterflies at once.  Both places also have windows into "hatching rooms" where you can see cocoons and chrysalids with emerging moths and butterflies.

Among all the plants are butterfly feeders that have some of the same "lures" talked about in the book.  I had to look up what "treacle" is while I read, and it seems to be something like molassas.  In the butterfly houses are plates of sticky syrup and pieces of fruit--especially yukky old bananas. 

My mother tried to set up a butterfly feeder at home with rotten bananas and syrup after our trip.  It attracted a few butterflies--and LOTS of yellow jackets!

Ann, bookhunter

[bookhunter]

Peppermill, you titled your post "The Butterfly Effect" which refers to the concept that a small movement--like a butterfly's wing--can have an increasing effects as they spread throughout the environment.  A flap of a butterfly's wing can cause (or prevent) a hurricane.

That is interesting to think about in terms of this novel!

Ann, bookhunter

[bookhunter]

ONE more thing...

Peppermill wrote:

"Somehow, I have always associated moths with darker images than I have butterflies, but that is probably because moths are such pests in a closets while butterflies are so ethereal. Moths I am familiar with also often seem more ponderous in their flight patterns. "

Isn't it interesting that you associate moths with darker images and butterflies represent more positive images?  Even in the research links you posted, moths sometimes symbolize death, or precede death, while butterflies represent change and rebirth.

Moths are usually out only at night, while butterflies are out by day. 

Hmmmm...I guess Ms. Adams was intentional on using moths and NOT butterflies! 

Ann, bookhunter

[bookhunter]

Carmenere_Lade wrote:

"I have a great butterfly memory.  We went to a town south of Merida, Mexico a couple of years ago, in June.  The conditions were perfect for  butterflies.  It had just rained and flowers were blooming.  As we pulled in the driveway of the hotel yellow butterflies were there to greet us and we followed them all the way up the drive to the front doors of the hotel.  The next day as we toured the Mayan ruins, there they were again.  It was as if they were following us wherever we went.  Later, as we left Uxmal, a sea of yellow butterlies were resting on the blacktop of the parking lot.  The number of people there did not frighten them.  What a beautiful sight to behold."

LyndaSue,

This does sound like a beautiful experience!

(But part of me was giggling and thinking of the old Star Trek episode where the flying bugs on a planet are beautiful but think collectively to attack poor Kirk and Spock!)

Ann, bookhunter