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pigwidgeon
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19


renhair wrote:
My exact question when I read that passage. It's possible that she's someone from their youth. Vivi does say something about Eileen living in the house that her mother had. Nonetheless, she kind of came out of nowhere and there didn't seem to be any real framework or purpose...

Everyman wrote:
Who is Eileen anyhow, and did she show up earlier in the story and I missed it? How does Vivi know her after nearly fifty years away from the house?




Eileen is Eileen Davis, Charlotte Davis's daughter, we learned about her in chapter 6.

"I (Ginny) tell her (Vivi) that Charlotte Davis's daughter, Eileen, is now living in Willow Cottage. Michael told me she came back a few years ago, after her mother died. 'I haven't seen her, though. Do you remember the Davises?' I ask.
'Yes, of course,' she says, as she props up her head on an elbow. 'Mrs. Davis and her beloved carthorses. what were their names?'
'Alice and Rebecca.'" (70-71)

Eileen's mom, Charlotte, also owned the horses (Alice and Rebecca), one of which "was found trampling the graves in St. Bart's churchyard"(37). In this situation, Ginny remembers that Maud "quelled the uproar"(37) in town.

When we read about Eileen in chapter 17, I remembered hearing about her previously, and just assumed that Vivi had gone to visit, or out with, Eileen the previous evening. I think Vivi thought that Ginny would like to meet Eileen, as an adult, since they, somewhat, knew each other as children.
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dumlao_n
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19

Chapter 17

Vivi might be so distraught of not having a child that she does not want to remember the baby died. That is why she does not want to look at the baby's grave.

What if because Ginny's mental state and not having a desire to have a child of her own caused the baby to die? The baby had no chance to thrive, be happy, to move inside of her and to be born healthy.

Chapter 18
I think it's great Vivien after all those years of not living in the house took control and demands the bobble head woman to leave and not to bother her sister anymore.
As far as the conversation between Vivi and Ginny, I think Vivi is trying to convince Ginny to believe she(Ginny) is responsible for Maud's death because she was neglecting Maud by researching with Clive.

Chapter 19
Ginny maybe claiming to her sister she is always researching, but after Clive left the house she never touched the lab again. She also closed up all the rooms she would never use or want to be reminded of what happened in those rooms.
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bentley
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19



KxBurns wrote:


bentley wrote:
I do not see Vivian as loving Ginny at all; at least not on this last visit. I think she is following the course that her mother Maude did. If she was trying to protect her; she would not be having her name called out in church to be prayed for. Whatever ailment Ginny had she has had this since birth (it was not something new). I think it was a set-up of Ginny in order to take over the estate (sad as that might seem). Maybe she always thought that Ginny had pushed her and that she lost the chance of having a baby twice (because of Ginny and what unfortunately happened to Samuel). Maybe she also blames Ginny for the breakup of her marriage to Arthur and the fact that he had a connection with Ginny that he did not have with her. Maybe she resented what happened to her mother and thought Ginny did it and that Clive knew (even though I think Clive was the one to carry this out). I think she thought that the only connection that she had in the house had to do with Maud (and their laughter and conversations). She was in fact looking for some belongings of Maud (anything). Being the so called normal child, maybe she had built up a life time of resentment at the specialness that was Ginny and all of this resentment over the years had built up to a delusional hate exacerbated by the drinking. As you recall, Maud had resentment towards Ginny saying how she had given up her life for her (all of which came out for the first time as a drinker).

I don't think we have any evidence to show that Vivi had Ginny prayed for in church. This is a small community and where probably everyone knows that the woman who occupies the largest house in town, whose mother was once the center of the community and frequently opened the doors of their home to others, is a total recluse. That is reason enough for me to assume that the congregation itself has chosen to pray for Ginny and has probably been doing so for some time.





I suspect Vivian coming out of the church that day had something to do with it. I think she made the rounds when she went out the day before; conjuring up sympathy as the poor sister come back to take care of her deranged, ill sister. This was part of the game. I think she went to see the pastor and asked him to pray for her sister. I do not believe that was by chance. There is not much evidence or many answers in the book. I know earlier you surmised that Vivian had visited a pub and I think you would agree there was no evidence for that hypothesis either. In fact, I do not think she was at a pub, I suspect she was strategizing her return and other things in the village and visited the church too. She probably ran into Eileen and maybe was invited into one of the homes to chat away about her poor sister and drink some sherry. That is my hypothesis. Since concrete evidence is absent and nobody knows why Vivian was there, all of us are left to our own devices. I think that this book gave fewer answers than the House of Riverton. There was a lot I liked about The House of Riverton. This particular book does not do it for me; but I am sure that others will fancy the unknowns more than I did. I am also not an insect person either; but I certainly learned a lot about moths. (LOL)
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bentley
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19 SPOILER



KxBurns wrote:


bentley wrote:

Everyman wrote:


KxBurns wrote:


renhair wrote:
My exact question when I read that passage. It's possible that she's someone from their youth. Vivi does say something about Eileen living in the house that her mother had. Nonetheless, she kind of came out of nowhere and there didn't seem to be any real framework or purpose...

Everyman wrote:
Who is Eileen anyhow, and did she show up earlier in the story and I missed it? How does Vivi know her after nearly fifty years away from the house?




I think she's just a friend Vivi made at the pub...



Did I miss a pub visit? When did this happen?




I did not see it as a pub visit either..maybe she was drinking at Eileen's house..whoever that happens to be (I did not see a mention of a friend Eileen from childhood). And why does this strange woman Eileen get invited to the house by Vivian without so much as consulting ahead of time to ask if Ginny would mind. I think it was a way to show off Ginny and say..see what she has become. Possibly take over the house was her plan; I think she was shocked actually to see all of the furnishings gone; maybe she thought of selling them off herself and her sister had already done it.

When Eileen visits the house, she an Vivi discuss some topics they had been discussing the previous day, which led me to assume they met at a pub since Vivi had come home smelling of alcohol that day. But, sure, it could have been at someone's house, too. Wherever Vivi met Eileen, I'm not sure I agree with it being such a big deal that Vivi brings a guest home. Isn't the house hers as much as Ginny's? What would be the harm in trying to engage Ginny in some socializing? I don't how it's indicative of a plan to steal the house out from under Ginny... am I missing something?





POSSIBLE SPOILER

I think it was at Eileen's house (for reasons that come later). But I also think that Vivian was visiting Eileen's house and hitting the sherry before. It is as you say; but if I had been away for 40 years; I might show some deference to the person who had been holding the fort and living in the home all of those years at least for the first couple of days I was there. Also, she seemed to be looking for something and questioning everything that Ginny had done and everything her father had planned and done. Even questioning Ginny herself and her mental awareness. I think I might have worried what this person was up to no good as well. I think she should have come out and said Vivian take off or tell me why you are here. I have gotten to like living alone without you.
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bentley
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19



pigwidgeon wrote:

renhair wrote:
My exact question when I read that passage. It's possible that she's someone from their youth. Vivi does say something about Eileen living in the house that her mother had. Nonetheless, she kind of came out of nowhere and there didn't seem to be any real framework or purpose...

Everyman wrote:
Who is Eileen anyhow, and did she show up earlier in the story and I missed it? How does Vivi know her after nearly fifty years away from the house?




Eileen is Eileen Davis, Charlotte Davis's daughter, we learned about her in chapter 6.

"I (Ginny) tell her (Vivi) that Charlotte Davis's daughter, Eileen, is now living in Willow Cottage. Michael told me she came back a few years ago, after her mother died. 'I haven't seen her, though. Do you remember the Davises?' I ask.
'Yes, of course,' she says, as she props up her head on an elbow. 'Mrs. Davis and her beloved carthorses. what were their names?'
'Alice and Rebecca.'" (70-71)

Eileen's mom, Charlotte, also owned the horses (Alice and Rebecca), one of which "was found trampling the graves in St. Bart's churchyard"(37). In this situation, Ginny remembers that Maud "quelled the uproar"(37) in town.

When we read about Eileen in chapter 17, I remembered hearing about her previously, and just assumed that Vivi had gone to visit, or out with, Eileen the previous evening. I think Vivi thought that Ginny would like to meet Eileen, as an adult, since they, somewhat, knew each other as children.




That seems logical; at least we know who Eileen was. I had forgotten that minor connection.
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paula_02912
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19

Karen wrote: Chapter 17: A Prayer -how would you say the pregnancy changed the dynamic between Ginny, Vivi and Arthur? What about the baby's death? Why do you think Ginny described the baby as wise (p. 197)? Do you believe Vivi really forgot about her baby, and if so, why?

I think the dynamic changed to the point where Ginny started to fall in love with Arthur, which Vivi didn't like...he came often to visit and it was clear that he too was developing feelings for her...was it because he noticed something different about her and wanted to acknowledge it? Or was it because he genuinely felt something for...it seemed as if he was courting her when he came unexpectedly (early)...the baby's death was a little surprising for me...I was saddened by it because I felt she would finally have something/someone of her own...but I think that if the baby did live...the divide between Vivi and Ginny would have more like an abyss...I don't Vivi really forgot about the baby, but I think she tried to forget about the entire situation...her reaction was understandable at the baby's delivery, but it seemed as if she was the one giving the child away when she refused to look at it...by avoiding looking at the headstone was her way of trying to get away from the emotions that came with acknowleding the baby...

-Her prominence is cast in further doubt by Eileen's visit and Ginny's subsequent conversation with Vivi. Do you think the lunch Vivi proposes is an attempt to call Ginny's bluff?

Vivi was definitely trying to get a rise out of her...I didn't think that she was going to invite anyone to come and see her that Tuesday...Karen, this chapter was a little contradictory for me...the scene where Eileen visits and the trip to the church without being seen was just kind of eerie...I teetered between the idea that Ginny was a ghost or she was really alive...no one ever "sees" her and just the way that she describes everything...I felt this way especially when Eileen didn't talk to her when Vivi went to get  her a drink...she acted as if Ginny wasn't there...did anyone else feel this way? Of course, that theory was shot as I read further....just wondering what everyone else thought about that scene...

 

 

 

 

Peace and love,
Paula R.

"Adversity causes some people to break, but causes others to break records."

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paula_02912
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19

Karen wrote: "Chapter 18: The Bobble-Hat Woman and the Leaflets

-I was spellbound by this chapter, as Ginny and Vivi finally have the conversation we have been waiting for them to have. In your opinion, is Vivi's version of events more likely to be accurate? How does it change our feelings about Vivi (if at all)? What did you make of her intentions to have Ginny take some responsibility for Maud's death?"

Karen, I think that Vivi's version was definitely more accurate...she was a more believable character to me and she thought the same things I did...I felt that Ginny had something to do with Maud's fall as did Clive...My feelings didn't change that much about Vivi, but it cleared up a few things about why she finally came back...she seemed like she genuinely cared about Ginny and she did feel that she could handle the truth of the situation...I just don't think that it should have taken her 47 years to come back to do so...I think that pointing out the role Ginny played to her was a bold move...she needed to shake Ginny up and get her to see things for what they were, not just through "rose-colored glasses" anymore...I think she wanted her to stop hiding and start living again...

Peace and love,
Paula R.

"Adversity causes some people to break, but causes others to break records."

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KxBurns
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19



pigwidgeon wrote:
Eileen is Eileen Davis, Charlotte Davis's daughter, we learned about her in chapter 6.

"I (Ginny) tell her (Vivi) that Charlotte Davis's daughter, Eileen, is now living in Willow Cottage. Michael told me she came back a few years ago, after her mother died. 'I haven't seen her, though. Do you remember the Davises?' I ask.
'Yes, of course,' she says, as she props up her head on an elbow. 'Mrs. Davis and her beloved carthorses. what were their names?'
'Alice and Rebecca.'" (70-71)

Eileen's mom, Charlotte, also owned the horses (Alice and Rebecca), one of which "was found trampling the graves in St. Bart's churchyard"(37). In this situation, Ginny remembers that Maud "quelled the uproar"(37) in town.

When we read about Eileen in chapter 17, I remembered hearing about her previously, and just assumed that Vivi had gone to visit, or out with, Eileen the previous evening. I think Vivi thought that Ginny would like to meet Eileen, as an adult, since they, somewhat, knew each other as children.

Thank you, pidwidgeon -- good sleuthing! :smileyhappy:
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paula_02912
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19

Philip wrote: "Ok, here's a theory. Vivi initially suspected Ginny of being the one to push Maud. Could it be that she does this because Ginny actually did push her off of the bell tower? Could it further be the case that Vivi has returned now for the purpose of bringing Ginny's world crashing down with the truth out of revenge for the childhood "crime"? I'm not 100% sold on this, but I thought it would be interesting to put out for discussion."
 
Philip, I think that this is a great theory...right now, I believe that Ginny is responsible for the bell tower incident and Maud's "fall"...Clive was just covering for her and the memory she related doesn't jibe for me anymore...Ginny was off her rocker and it was obvious that Maud thought she did something to facilitate Vivi's fall...maybe she had done something to try and harm her before that point...we will never know because Ginny never described any incidents before this one...I found it interesting that it was her first memory that she shared about Vivi...I don't think that Vivi came back to get revenge though...I really believe that she wanted Ginny to acknowledge and accept the fact that she played a role in the incidents that occurred...
Peace and love,
Paula R.

"Adversity causes some people to break, but causes others to break records."

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bentley
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Chapter 18

Some quotes that I found telling in this chapter included the following:

Ginny: "Stop it Vivien, just stop it!" I'm shouting. "You've spent your whole life ripping this family apart and you waltz back here and start doing it again, even when they're all dead."

Ginny: "You fell out with Maud and then you fell out with Clive, and then you didn't speak to me for forty-seven years. How can you dare think you tried to hold us together."

Ginny: "The whole world is flying round my head. Nothing seems to add up. How does she suddenly know all these things I thought she never did? I have so many different reasons as to why this is nonsense, but they all want to be shouted at once. They won't line up in order and wait their turn."

Vivien: "I fell out with you because I couldn't help thinking it was all your fault. I couldn't help thinking you'd ruined my life, all our lives - whether you knew it or not. But I wasn't allowed to think that. Oh, no. Clive never allowed us to think that."

Ginny: Responsibility? Vivien's either gone mad or she's trying to make me think I'm mad. I'm amazed that she is believing this for her entire life."

I think all of the above explains what happened later and the fear that Ginny had about her world being totally upset by this person.
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paula_02912
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19

detailmuse wrote: "
Considering Vivi's (non-)reaction at the baby's birth and death, and her (non-)reaction at the baby's gravesite -- what explains her carrying the photo of her "pregnant" self with her ex-husband? Was it just a reminder of better times?"
 
detailmuse, I was a little surprised by this particular pic...I thought that Ginny had the baby for Vivi, so how can she have a pic of her pregnant? Did anyone else catch this? Even Ginny stopped when she saw this pic in Vivi's bag...she couldn't remember either...in the margins I wrote "Was Vivi really the one who was pregnant and Ginny had delusions about a relationship with Arthur? Why would she put herself in Vivi's stead in her memories? Could it be that she had an affair with Arthur each time he came back to visit without Vivi's knowledge?
Peace and love,
Paula R.

"Adversity causes some people to break, but causes others to break records."

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KxBurns
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19 SPOILER



bentley wrote:


POSSIBLE SPOILER

I think it was at Eileen's house (for reasons that come later). But I also think that Vivian was visiting Eileen's house and hitting the sherry before. It is as you say; but if I had been away for 40 years; I might show some deference to the person who had been holding the fort and living in the home all of those years at least for the first couple of days I was there. Also, she seemed to be looking for something and questioning everything that Ginny had done and everything her father had planned and done. Even questioning Ginny herself and her mental awareness. I think I might have worried what this person was up to no good as well. I think she should have come out and said Vivian take off or tell me why you are here. I have gotten to like living alone without you.

I agree that Vivi is questioning the Normal Order of Things (as Ginny would put it), and to Ginny's discomfort. But I'm still hesitant to ascribe motives to her actions because we only have Ginny's skewed account of events to go on. To me, we can really only ever gauge Ginny's intentions/motives since we see everything from her p.o.v. -- and even that's a gamble!
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19

I think it's much more likely that Clive is the one who managed, one way or another, to see that Maud was dispatched, to stop the abuse of Ginny, which he could no longer ignore after the incident with the frying pan.  The way he gave up his life's work, moved out, and checked into an institution seem to lead to that explanation.  Vivi was nowhere around when Maud died, but knew of the abuse.  Her first thoughts were that Ginny, at last, fought back, but I think she realizes after talking to Ginny about it, that she was wrong.  I don't think Clive would have left Ginny alone if he thought she were capable of violence.  I think he would more likely have stayed put and tried to assure that she wouldn't get into more trouble. 
 
I see no evidence that Vivi is even fond of Ginny, much less loving toward her.  She has stayed away from an incompetent sister for something like 50 years, leaving her to fend for herself and a huge house as best she can.  She barges in without announcing any reason for her change of heart, something she must know would be intimidating.   She criticizes how Ginny has handled things, and at times manipulates Ginny by pretending to share a memory or a closeness that her actions belie.   I think she brought Eileen there to embarrass Ginny, by surprising her with an unexpected guest, and to further upset her and make her feel insecure.   I had assumed she'd run into Eileen at the pub.  When she came home smelling of sherry (or whatever) I jumped to the pub conclusion because that's a normal meeting place for people in rural Great Britain, all kinds of folks, of all ages and classes, mix informally in the local pub.   Vivi, being more gregarious than Ginney (to say the least :-)    would have been looking for a bit more lively companionship, and of course, she didn't even show the common courtesy of mentioning that she was going out for a few hours. 
But, of course, perhaps she did look Eileen up deliberately, rather than running into her at a public place.  Eileen could be useful to Vivi for the reasons I mention above, and Vivi apparently wouldn't care that she would also be embarrassing Eileen by subjecting her to such an uncomfortable encounter. 
 
One more thing, a reader wrote: 
 
             " What if because Ginny's mental state and not having a desire to have a child of her own caused the baby to die? The baby had no chance to thrive, be happy, to move inside of her and to be born healthy."
 
I would hate to add this conjecture to the list of things to blame on Ginny.  If not wanting a baby were enough to cause it to fail to thrive in utero and/or die at birth, we would not have thriving abortion and  adoption industries, nor the thousands of children who are born unwanted every year.   Despite our understandable concern for the health of pregnant women and their fetuses, pregnancies have for thousands of years ended successfully for women on inadequate diets, trussed up with waist pinching stays, overworked in the fields, and exhausted by long journeys and/or childcare.  It sounded to me as if the cord got twisted around the baby's neck at birth. 
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bentley
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Re: Chapter 19

There are so many clues in these last few chapters; I wish we received a few answers but we did not get many. However, some of the following quotes I think spell a great deal out for the reader.

Ginny: "How dare Vivien come home and steal my safe, delicious memories? Three days ago my memory of life was of a complete and happy event - a blissful childhood, a warm, loving family, a blossoming career, but Vivien's walked into my head and littered it with doubt and anger and turbulence. The past I used to know has melted before my eyes into something writhing and fluid, with no structure, no scaffold. I can never again think of my parents, my childhood or my life without the stains she's spilt all over them. All I can see now, as my father nurses my mother's hands back to life, is the water turning red in the bowl."

Ginny: "Had Vivien really come home to torment me, to point out that I had been living in the wrong history, to push me into the correct scene of the correct painting? I have always had her interests in mind, especially when I kept things from her. She had in mind no interest in mine when she taunted me with her twisted secret."

Ginny:"Could our entire sisterhood have been a farce, years of complicated deception, of endless assurances of love, charm and manipulation, all so that one day she would take what she wanted."

Ginny: "If Samuel had grown up and not done so well as she'd wanted, if he'd been slow or retarded, would she have thrown him back to me then?"

I think for all of these reasons, a disturbance was created in Ginny's mind/psyche and she decided to kill/exterminate Vivien; the cause of all the torment and unrest. In some ways, Ginny felt that Vivien had now ruined her life and was tormenting her present existence and peace.
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bentley
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19 SPOILER


KxBurns wrote:


bentley wrote:


POSSIBLE SPOILER

I think it was at Eileen's house (for reasons that come later). But I also think that Vivian was visiting Eileen's house and hitting the sherry before. It is as you say; but if I had been away for 40 years; I might show some deference to the person who had been holding the fort and living in the home all of those years at least for the first couple of days I was there. Also, she seemed to be looking for something and questioning everything that Ginny had done and everything her father had planned and done. Even questioning Ginny herself and her mental awareness. I think I might have worried what this person was up to no good as well. I think she should have come out and said Vivian take off or tell me why you are here. I have gotten to like living alone without you.

I agree that Vivi is questioning the Normal Order of Things (as Ginny would put it), and to Ginny's discomfort. But I'm still hesitant to ascribe motives to her actions because we only have Ginny's skewed account of events to go on. To me, we can really only ever gauge Ginny's intentions/motives since we see everything from her p.o.v. -- and even that's a gamble!





That is true; but the unreliable narrator is all we have. So all we can ask ourselves is to make our best educated "stabs in the dark". Otherwise, why read the book at all. We have to take the words of the author and interpret what she gave us; no matter how skewed or light in actual details it might be and/or how crazy or sane one might believe Ginny is (our narrator). It is what it is.
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KxBurns
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19



paula_02912 wrote:

Vivi was definitely trying to get a rise out of her...I didn't think that she was going to invite anyone to come and see her that Tuesday...Karen, this chapter was a little contradictory for me...the scene where Eileen visits and the trip to the church without being seen was just kind of eerie...I teetered between the idea that Ginny was a ghost or she was really alive...no one ever "sees" her and just the way that she describes everything...I felt this way especially when Eileen didn't talk to her when Vivi went to get  her a drink...she acted as if Ginny wasn't there...did anyone else feel this way? Of course, that theory was shot as I read further....just wondering what everyone else thought about that scene...



Really interesting, Paula -- I hadn't considered this...
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KxBurns
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19 SPOILER



bentley wrote:

KxBurns wrote:


bentley wrote:


POSSIBLE SPOILER

I think it was at Eileen's house (for reasons that come later). But I also think that Vivian was visiting Eileen's house and hitting the sherry before. It is as you say; but if I had been away for 40 years; I might show some deference to the person who had been holding the fort and living in the home all of those years at least for the first couple of days I was there. Also, she seemed to be looking for something and questioning everything that Ginny had done and everything her father had planned and done. Even questioning Ginny herself and her mental awareness. I think I might have worried what this person was up to no good as well. I think she should have come out and said Vivian take off or tell me why you are here. I have gotten to like living alone without you.

I agree that Vivi is questioning the Normal Order of Things (as Ginny would put it), and to Ginny's discomfort. But I'm still hesitant to ascribe motives to her actions because we only have Ginny's skewed account of events to go on. To me, we can really only ever gauge Ginny's intentions/motives since we see everything from her p.o.v. -- and even that's a gamble!





That is true; but the unreliable narrator is all we have. So all we can ask ourselves is to make our best educated "stabs in the dark". Otherwise, why read the book at all. We have to take the words of the author and interpret what she gave us; no matter how skewed or light in actual details it might be and/or how crazy or sane one might believe Ginny is (our narrator). It is what it is.

Oh, absolutely. And just like Vivi and Ginny, we're sure to have differing takes on things :smileyhappy:
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mwinasu
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19

I am so glad that someone wrote a book about alcoholism that does not make everything sound like a weekend at Disneyland.
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KxBurns
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19



LizzieAnn wrote:
I agree with you about Vivi's warring emotions.  However, I don't think it's strange that she feels that Ginny shares some of the blame.  Vivi seems to believe that Ginny knows exactly what happened - that Clive pushed Maud.  However, Ginny was prevented from telling the police because the doctor (& Clive?) arranged it that she never spoke to them.  No matter how hard Vivi tried to get the police to do so.  It's no wonder that she harbors resentment toward Ginny, even after all these years.  She feels the Ginny was able to protect Clive (who favored Ginny) while Maud (who favored Vivi) was lost.

Great points -- thanks!
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bentley
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Re: Sunday: Chapters 17 through 19 SPOILER


KxBurns wrote:


bentley wrote:

KxBurns wrote:


bentley wrote:


POSSIBLE SPOILER

I think it was at Eileen's house (for reasons that come later). But I also think that Vivian was visiting Eileen's house and hitting the sherry before. It is as you say; but if I had been away for 40 years; I might show some deference to the person who had been holding the fort and living in the home all of those years at least for the first couple of days I was there. Also, she seemed to be looking for something and questioning everything that Ginny had done and everything her father had planned and done. Even questioning Ginny herself and her mental awareness. I think I might have worried what this person was up to no good as well. I think she should have come out and said Vivian take off or tell me why you are here. I have gotten to like living alone without you.

I agree that Vivi is questioning the Normal Order of Things (as Ginny would put it), and to Ginny's discomfort. But I'm still hesitant to ascribe motives to her actions because we only have Ginny's skewed account of events to go on. To me, we can really only ever gauge Ginny's intentions/motives since we see everything from her p.o.v. -- and even that's a gamble!





That is true; but the unreliable narrator is all we have. So all we can ask ourselves is to make our best educated "stabs in the dark". Otherwise, why read the book at all. We have to take the words of the author and interpret what she gave us; no matter how skewed or light in actual details it might be and/or how crazy or sane one might believe Ginny is (our narrator). It is what it is.

Oh, absolutely. And just like Vivi and Ginny, we're sure to have differing takes on things :smileyhappy:





Of course, but you have to admit saying that Vivien was at the pub was stretching it..smile Only teasing you.
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