Do girls get the short end of the stick in books?

[Michael_Buckley]

I find that boys have the truly big adventures - going to wizarding school and riding dragons, while girls get to take care of a pony or move to a new neighborhood in their books. Do you think girls just aren't interested in the roller coaster adventure or do you think writers and publishers have an old fashioned approach to works for girls?

[TiggerBear]

I find that boys have the truly big adventures - going to wizarding school and riding dragons, while girls get to take care of a pony or move to a new neighborhood in their books. Do you think girls just aren't interested in the roller coaster adventure or do you think writers and publishers have an old fashioned approach to works for girls?
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Unfortunately the latter not the former. As a child I scoured the shelves in search of active female protagonists, with few positive results. The market has always been there. You'd think publishers would at least realize the sexual revolution was over 30 years ago.

[Jordan_Sonnenb…]

Just playing devil's advocate: TiggerBear proposes that the problem is at the publishing end, rather than being driven by what actual girls want to read.

But then, how does one explain the huge popularity of the Twilight books, which feature Bella, the most passive teen girl in the history of literature?  I read the first one, and it seemed to me that while a big adventure happened TO her, she was not an active adventure heroine by any stretch of the imagination.

Any thoughts?

[TiggerBear]

Simple, a Vampire book. They sell themselves.
And given the first book, the girl isn't the only protagonist.

[Michael_Buckley]

I read Twilight myself and thought it was fun. It's a modern romance novel with a twist and I can see why a lot of girls love it. But I do agree, the main character is not very proactive when it comes to saving herself - still, the series isn't over yet so give Bella a chance. She might surprise you.

In a future book I plan to tackle the fact that Sabrina has never truly saved the day and she owes her well-being to Puck (which won't sit well with her but will set her on a hero's journey all her own). Snow White in my books, I think, is a great role model for girls - she refuses to be a victim and thus teaches self defense to other women. She's smart but tough.

[swiswee]

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Michael_Buckley wrote:
I find that boys have the truly big adventures - going to wizarding school and riding dragons, while girls get to take care of a pony or move to a new neighborhood in their books. Do you think girls just aren't interested in the roller coaster adventure or do you think writers and publishers have an old fashioned approach to works for girls?

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I think that depends on whose books you are reading.  I adore Tamora Pierce's books because she has strong female characters. 

I believe it is a case of both, girls still do not strive to stand out in a group, hence the weak characters, and publishers know that fluff will sell to girls. 

Now keep in mind these are generalizations.  I know plenty of young ladies who adore adventure and seek out books with it.  I also know plenty who think The Gossip Girls are the only books written for girls today.

[hideko]

On the whole I think that would be true. There are some that don't follow that at all, though. One of the best examples would be Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest Chronicles (the first book is Dealing with Dragons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enchanted_Forest_Chronicles for a quick overview). The main protagonist is a bored princess.

Though not quite as pointedly a "female" adventure, Diana Wynne Jones' book Howl's Moving Castle has a young woman as one of the main characters, and the adventure is mostly viewed through her perceptions of it.

Another one that is actually vaguely similar to the new Enchanted movie is a book called Princess Nevermore, where a princess from a fantasy world is transported to ours.

The sequel to an adventure featuring a male protagonist follows his female companion in Edith Pattou's Fire Arrow. 

The books are out there; you just have to look very closely. They just aren't quite as prominent. It would be an interesting study to make... why aren't females portrayed as the main protagonist more in fantasy novels? There's some assumption that girls don't like fantasy - that it's all male nerds/geeks/what have you that read those types of books, and it's completely not true. Is it because the typical hero's journey has been a predominantly "male" journey, or is it because no one's found an interesting way to write a female hero's journey?

[Roseshadow]

I don't think so. I have always found lots of stories about girls having magical adventures and the like (of course, that could have been just because I was looking for them). The way I see it, it's hard to find a story about a boy these days. Most of Zilpha's Keitley Snider's books are about girls (I've never read any of them, although I bought The Egypt Game and it's sitting on my shelf waiting for me to read it) and in the introduction to one of her books she said her son was tired of sad stories about girls and wanted a funny story about a boy and that was why she wrote that book. The only really big fantasy book "starring" a boy that I can think of is Harry Potter (which I've never read). I love The Sisters Grimm. My mom actually found it for me because she knew I'd want a book about a girl. I recently read The Looking Glass Wars and Seeing Redd by Frank Beddor which are two parts of a trilogy. It's a "girl empowerment story" and it got published. I dunno. I think most people write mostly about girls these days.

[TrueBlue]

I think that boys and girls get the same amount of books.

[ConnieAnnKirk]

My biggest disappointment in regard to this question is how girls will read books with boy protagonists seemingly much more readily that the other way around.  Sigh.

~ConnieK

[Roseshadow]

I'm glad that Michael Buckley is going to make Sabrina more active. I love Sabrina and want to see her save the day! About Twilight: I've never read it but I read this review at active-voice.net (which also has a review about Sister Grimm) and it doesn't sound like a book I would enjoy at all (I put it on hold to see for myself). Bella seems passive and (sorry I don't know how else to put it) stupid and Edward seems just horribly abusive. I don't see what any girl would like about it. Maybe it is the vampire thing (which I'm not into).

[stefanie_kenne…]

Edward isnt abusive at all!

nope

us girls how fabolus books.

twilght saga

 uglies series

the galagher girl series

and tons more im looking at right now!

[VictoriousMary]

From the reading teacher and school point of view we are always accused of favoring "girl" selections as opposed to boy books.  I find that challenging since most teachers use the materials provided by the state or the public school and have little or no control over what exactly is read in the classroom, at least on the primary grade level.

It does seem to be a girl book I suppose if you are talking about Frog and Toad Adventures even though I think both of them are male characters.  On the other hand, the silliness of some of the stories with canned vocabularies is neither male nor female. 

I also think the gender of the teacher has a lot to do with the selection.  In whole class teaching of a book, female teachers tend to pick a book in a genre that is about a female thus you have Number the Stars as a very popular choice while your male teacher of the same grade may pick a survival story with the same reading level.  They will both focus on characterization or the same time period. 

[ConnieAnnKirk]

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VictoriousMary wrote:

From the reading teacher and school point of view we are always accused of favoring "girl" selections as opposed to boy books.  I find that challenging since most teachers use the materials provided by the state or the public school and have little or no control over what exactly is read in the classroom, at least on the primary grade level.

It does seem to be a girl book I suppose if you are talking about Frog and Toad Adventures even though I think both of them are male characters.  On the other hand, the silliness of some of the stories with canned vocabularies is neither male nor female. 

I also think the gender of the teacher has a lot to do with the selection.  In whole class teaching of a book, female teachers tend to pick a book in a genre that is about a female thus you have Number the Stars as a very popular choice while your male teacher of the same grade may pick a survival story with the same reading level.  They will both focus on characterization or the same time period. 

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Thanks, Mary!  Do you find yourself consciously trying to choose books for your classroom that would appeal to both genders, or make choices evenly between so-called "girl"-oriented books and "boy" books (I shudder to categorize books that way--sorry).  If boys don't respond to a book you use one year, do you find yourself looking for something both boys and girls might like together?  Is this difficult to do?

~ConnieK

[unicornucopia]

I read Patricia C. Wrede's Dealing with Dragons when I was nine, and it was just huge for me.  Wrede's protagonist, Princess Cimorene, was the most active, self-sufficient female character I'd ever met up to that point, and as an active, self-sufficient girl I was just thrilled reading about her adventures.  I'm twenty-four now, and I still am not sure I've read such a positive role model for girls in any genre of literature.

In contrast, as an adult I've read half the Twilight series.  (I wasn't sold with the first book, but was encouraged by friends to keep trucking along and found that I really enjoyed New Moon.  Apparently, for you fans, I'm on Team Jacob.)  And though I like the books, I'm concerned about their popularity--namely, I'm concerned about what Bella's passive personality and utter dependence on Edward are teaching teenage girls.  At least in the Harry Potter series, Hermione, though a slightly secondary character, was independent-minded (she even has several downright feminist quotes).  But with so many girls reading and rereading a character like Bella, who never acts for herself, and whose world absolutely crumbles when her boyfriend breaks up with her in the second book, I have to wonder not only what attracts girls to these books in the first place, but what they will take from them.  Bella's a far cry from Princess Cimorene (whose romance with Prince Mendanbar is the epitome of equality and equanimity--really, it'd make Betty Friedan proud).

[Patty_Champion]

I'm a librarian in a public / high school library  (& a mom of a 13 yr. old boy) and I think there are a lot more books written for girls.

 Finding good books for teenage boys is tough! Girls will read series with a boy as the main character (Harry Potter, Eragon) but boys won't read books with a girl for the main character (Uglies by Scott Westerfeld, Chosen by P.C. Cast).

I also think girls tend to read more than boys, too. I read a bunch as a kid but my son would rather be gaming. When he does find a book he likes he will read it in one sitting (Brisingr was read in a little over a day). And series are prefered over stand-alone titles.

And even though graphic novels are popular, I've noticed the guys here at school like the books based on computer games (Halo, Resident Evil). Fine with me! Anything to get a book into their hands, I say!

[ConnieAnnKirk]

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Patty_Champion wrote:

I'm a librarian in a public / high school library  (& a mom of a 13 yr. old boy) and I think there are a lot more books written for girls.

 Finding good books for teenage boys is tough! Girls will read series with a boy as the main character (Harry Potter, Eragon) but boys won't read books with a girl for the main character (Uglies by Scott Westerfeld, Chosen by P.C. Cast).

I also think girls tend to read more than boys, too. I read a bunch as a kid but my son would rather be gaming. When he does find a book he likes he will read it in one sitting (Brisingr was read in a little over a day). And series are prefered over stand-alone titles.

And even though graphic novels are popular, I've noticed the guys here at school like the books based on computer games (Halo, Resident Evil). Fine with me! Anything to get a book into their hands, I say!

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Thanks for posting, Patty!  I know what you mean about seeing more girls than boys reading--it can be frustrating, eh?  What do you think--is it the physical DNA of males to be more predominantly active and not wish to sit reading, or is it our society that seems to expect that of them?  I know some magnificent male English professors--they must have combated this stereotype/genenic engineering/whatever in their lives at some point.  One wonders what made them like reading when another boy down the street did not. 

Are you seeing a trend of more girls not liking to read as well, these days?  It seemed like more girls used to enjoy reading for pleasure when I was a girl than do now.  Picking up a book just to enjoy the story--for fun--what a concept!  Are we asking too much reading as "work" of our children these days so that it takes the fun out of it?  Or are there just many more distractions from reading a book available to them?

~ConnieK

[Patty_Champion]

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Thanks for posting, Patty!  I know what you mean about seeing more girls than boys reading--it can be frustrating, eh?  What do you think--is it the physical DNA of males to be more predominantly active and not wish to sit reading, or is it our society that seems to expect that of them?  I know some magnificent male English professors--they must have combated this stereotype/genenic engineering/whatever in their lives at some point.  One wonders what made them like reading when another boy down the street did not. 

Are you seeing a trend of more girls not liking to read as well, these days?  It seemed like more girls used to enjoy reading for pleasure when I was a girl than do now.  Picking up a book just to enjoy the story--for fun--what a concept!  Are we asking too much reading as "work" of our children these days so that it takes the fun out of it?  Or are there just many more distractions from reading a book available to them?

~ConnieK

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I think there are probably fewer kids in general reading these days. Those that are reading are more girls than boys.

The kids today are so busy and they're plugged in to something electronic all the time. Schoolwork does take up a large chunk of time but also the extracurricular activites -- parents seem to keep the kids hyper-involved. Maybe the kids feel like it's a waste of time to sit and read, as if they're doing "nothing."

There are a lot of good books being written for kids today. Some of it is kinda scary (the topics are way beyond the things I read as a teen) but it's timely. And I think the more ways a message is given (drug use, sex, abuse), it has a better chance of sinking in.

I just wish more books were written for teen boys.

[twilightfreek08]

people can wright about what ever they want it dosn't have to b just about a girl or just about a boy. a wrighter can wright what ever he/she is fealing and if that person wants to put it mainly around a boy or girl they can. or they can add boys to girl books and grils to boy, i mean dose it really madder? i loved the twilight series, and bella is stronge in her own way. yes edward has a lot of unnatural strangth and all that. but have you ever thought about how he would be if he wasnt a vampire? he wouldn't be so strong, he would b like everyone. so  no i dont think girls get the " short end of the stick in books"

[ConnieAnnKirk]

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twilightfreek08 wrote:
people can wright about what ever they want it dosn't have to b just about a girl or just about a boy. a wrighter can wright what ever he/she is fealing and if that person wants to put it mainly around a boy or girl they can. or they can add boys to girl books and grils to boy, i mean dose it really madder? i loved the twilight series, and bella is stronge in her own way. yes edward has a lot of unnatural strangth and all that. but have you ever thought about how he would be if he wasnt a vampire? he wouldn't be so strong, he would b like everyone. so  no i dont think girls get the " short end of the stick in books"

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Welcome, twilightfreek!  So, you think it's really just up the author, then, whether s/he chooses to make a boy or a girl the main character.  I wonder if we could count, whether there are more female writers of children's book than men.  IF that were true, I wonder if boys get counted out early on because more women writers are writing about girl lead characters.  But I don't know if that's true at all.  There seem to be many male children's writers as well, and there's no law that says a woman cannot write about a male lead character. 

I think I agree that girls don't seem to get the short end of the stick in children's books as in being portrayed as weak or uninteresting, etc., though I'm sure we can all name examples where that happens. 

As far as Twilight goes, many people say that Bella keeps getting helped by Edward and Jacob rather than being portrayed as taking care of herself.  She's portrayed as klutzy, a danger magnet, etc.  Others say that Bella is a strong character in her own right who is willfully allowing these boys to be protective of her by staying friends/boyfriend-girlfriend with them.

Sounds like you might see Bella as not getting the "short end of the stick" in the series, yes?  I know many female readers would think she doesn't, since she "gets" Edward!    Others argue against that by saying what does she get in life other than Edward?

Message Edited by ConnieK on 12-07-2008 09:51 AM