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Contributor
ToniWI
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎03-29-2010

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

I am a new to the series reader and I am intrigued.  I tend to judge books by their cover and this one is good but not great.  The cover says that this is a book about blond (not white haired) warrior with a wolf as a companion and birds of prey watching/ following him.  The use of "The Psalms of....., gives this book a biblical slant the inclusion of the Publishers weekly review left me with questions that I wanted to have anwered.

 

Though I haven't read the first two books, I didn't find myself lost, trying to figure out what was going on.  The first 6 chapters sucked me into the world Scholes built and kept me interested and wanting more.  I find myself needing to know how this story plays out. 

 

In this case I would have passed up a good read because the cover didn't speak to me.

 

 

Contributor
ABShaeffer
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎07-10-2010

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

 


pen21 wrote:

 

WIth Crimson in the title and just my feelings, I have always thought the Crimson Empress was a Li Tam.

 


 

Ooooh. That's interesting, especially if Nadine is right and the Li Tams are descendents of the Younger Gods. Could the Crimson Empress mark the return of the Younger Gods?

 

Artists of all disciplines must be willing to go into the dark, let go control, be surprised. - Madeleine L’Engle
Contributor
ABShaeffer
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎07-10-2010

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

 


pen21 wrote:

 

I think who is programming them is critical. Charles thought he had a back door and could get in to the small mechanical, but found someone else had programmed it. It could be mechoservitors and the mechanical birds are being 'controlled' by different factions.

 


 

 

What if the mechoservitors are controlling themselves? What if they can use the birds to communicate? If there are others like the Watcher and Isaak, could they be programming the small mechanicals to deliver their messages for whatever purpose they're pursuing?

 

Ken Scholes, you are rocking my socks over here!

Artists of all disciplines must be willing to go into the dark, let go control, be surprised. - Madeleine L’Engle
Distinguished Bibliophile
Nadine
Posts: 2,456
Registered: ‎10-30-2006
0 Kudos

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

This is quite interesting, especially since you are a new reader. I think it is important information that you thought the book cover was OK but not a real grabber. You were sold on the PW review. maybe Tor should litterally go back to the drawing board on this one.

 

Maybe some of you could mention a cover that sold you on a book you knew nothing of.

 

 


ToniWI wrote:

I am a new to the series reader and I am intrigued.  I tend to judge books by their cover and this one is good but not great.  The cover says that this is a book about blond (not white haired) warrior with a wolf as a companion and birds of prey watching/ following him.  The use of "The Psalms of....., gives this book a biblical slant the inclusion of the Publishers weekly review left me with questions that I wanted to have anwered.

 

Though I haven't read the first two books, I didn't find myself lost, trying to figure out what was going on.  The first 6 chapters sucked me into the world Scholes built and kept me interested and wanting more.  I find myself needing to know how this story plays out. 

 

In this case I would have passed up a good read because the cover didn't speak to me.

 

 


 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
Nadine
Posts: 2,456
Registered: ‎10-30-2006

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

 


ABShaeffer wrote:

 


pen21 wrote:

 

WIth Crimson in the title and just my feelings, I have always thought the Crimson Empress was a Li Tam.

 


 

Ooooh. That's interesting, especially if Nadine is right and the Li Tams are descendents of the Younger Gods. Could the Crimson Empress mark the return of the Younger Gods?

 


 

 

I'm wondering if the "ghost in the water" is one of the Younger Gods. This is crazy speculation bewcause we don't have enough history yet. The water near the Blood Magic Temple are obviously some sort of portal, and the same portal mentioned at the end of the Weeping Czar,

 

I had assumed the ghost must be Amal but this could be the same portal used to banish the Younger Gods. So the Ghost could be a Younger God.

 

Weeping Czar

 

It was slender and beautiful and it coiled around the pillar of the dock before sliding off and out—a line of blue-green light moving deeper and away, as if part of the moon had fallen and now sank.

Amal. He couldn’t tell if he said it aloud or silently. But a sudden fancy took him. Soft and low, he whistled the tune he’d been playing just minutes ago and watched the light flicker as it turned about and drifted slowly back to him.

What had her father said? Her body could not make the journey.

And he realized then that the Year of the Falling Moon was not about conquest and war, vendetta and violence. They’d only had part of Carnelyin’s gospel. The angry, broken potshards of loss. Those would still come but they were not the message of promise.

No, Frederico realized, this gospel was really about love. A love so strong that it would swim, relentless, at any price. And so piercing that it could be heard in the deepest of dark places.

Distinguished Bibliophile
Nadine
Posts: 2,456
Registered: ‎10-30-2006

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

 


ABShaeffer wrote:

 


pen21 wrote:

 

I think who is programming them is critical. Charles thought he had a back door and could get in to the small mechanical, but found someone else had programmed it. It could be mechoservitors and the mechanical birds are being 'controlled' by different factions.

 


 

 

What if the mechoservitors are controlling themselves? What if they can use the birds to communicate? If there are others like the Watcher and Isaak, could they be programming the small mechanicals to deliver their messages for whatever purpose they're pursuing?

 

Ken Scholes, you are rocking my socks over here!


 

 

I am leaning strongly in that direction. The Watcher is a mechoservitor and is functioning pretty independently. The birds seem to be pretty smart too. I would put The Watcher right now as Mechoservitor #2. I think there is a higher up mechoservitor doing this.

 

Lets look at the Kin Raven and Moon Sparrow encounter. In the Canticle Postlude the Kin Raven heads south. We don't know why but it is south from the Marshlands. In the Prelude to Antiphon the Moon Sparrow heads northeast and must be leaving from an area near the Ghosting Crest. They somehow meet right in the location of Jin Li Tam. The Kin Raven damages the Moon Sparrow very percisely but doesn't destroy it, and in fact seems to be making a big show of destroying it when Jin arrives and rescues the Moon Sparrow.. She takes it to Charles who reactivates it and it delivers a specific message to Isaak. And then it escapes, thanks to Isaak, carrying another message.

 

Now that doesn't seem coincidental to me! There is a plan working here and the mechoservitors in all camps might be working together.

 

Since these are the Psalms of Isaak, I am wondering if he becomes so human that he eventually breaks his possible ties with the mechoservitors and does something really heroic. But this is all purely speculation and not based on much. But it is fun!

Distinguished Bibliophile
Nadine
Posts: 2,456
Registered: ‎10-30-2006

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

The Mind Melds/Glosslalia/Dreams or whatever it is

I'm not sure of what is happening here but it is adding a whole new dimension to the story. The dreaming or mind-melds are caused by exposure to the Blood Magick. The first we encounter this is with Petronous because he was healed by Blood Magick. (Keep one other idea back in your mind. Jakob has also been healed by Blood Magick.)

Ok the first thing we learn through Petronus is that Neb was exposed to Blood Magick at the fall of Windwir and this is what caused his dreams. (Also keep in mind that Winters also dreams -- it is kind of her job -- but no longer.)

Then it hits him again, and Petronus is back in his papal office studying a map of The Churning Waste. And a man is pointing out the locations of the Super-Magick scouts. These are the same ones Neb has observed. It is revealed to Petronus that they are looking for mechoservitors.


Neb and the Carving of the Kin-Raven

  Neb has a similar experience to Petronus when he touches it the black stone carving of the Kin Raven. He first encounters what must be a mechoservitor who apparently has been in charge of Neb's "dream damp". He warns Neb that he is being listened to. He then encounters Brother Hebda and on page 72 we are also told of the other warnings or predictions Neb received in dreams from Brother Hebda. But there was another one somewhere in Canticle where Brother Hebda tells him to watch out for Renard. This was an ambiguous message. Brother Hebda warns him of the Waste Runners. And then he has his real-time encounter and exchange of images with Winters. And a blond woman marked with cuttings remarks that he is wandering the aether and "Awake and casting."

Petronus in the Aether

He is told of the incident above about Neb (I assume, since it is not specifically stated). Then his "dream" shifts to an underground lake of quicksilver with a black stone in the center (probably like Neb's Raven stone) with a man laying on it whispering into the lake. It is revealed to Petronus that it is an artifact of the Younger Gods from the Beneath Places and it is used to affect dreaming.

His companion doesn't explain much to him but remarks that the "dream is in jeopardy until Neb is safe and he is being hunted by the enemies of the dream and the light.

And then a very startling revelation on page 82: "I am Arch-Behaviorist Hebda,... of the Office of the Preservation of the Light."

Now I thought Hebda was some sort of archeologist who spend all is time exploring The Churning Waste. This seems like a totally different job to me. In fact it seems like he takes care of behavior modification.

OK, folks what do you make of all of this.

Distinguished Bibliophile
dalnewt
Posts: 2,725
Registered: ‎06-16-2009

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

[ Edited ]

 


ABShaeffer wrote:

 


pen21 wrote:

 

I think who is programming them is critical. Charles thought he had a back door and could get in to the small mechanical, but found someone else had programmed it. It could be mechoservitors and the mechanical birds are being 'controlled' by different factions.

 


 

 

What if the mechoservitors are controlling themselves? What if they can use the birds to communicate? If there are others like the Watcher and Isaak, could they be programming the small mechanicals to deliver their messages for whatever purpose they're pursuing?

 

Ken Scholes, you are rocking my socks over here!


 

I've considered the possibility that blood wizard(s) left behind one or more mechoservitor(s) to carry out some plan. (It could be a plan of ultimate revenge or even something to do with somehow resurrecting Raj's daughter Amal whose spirit still presumably resides in the world. After-all, the Y'Zirites and the ancient 'Watcher' mechoservitor want to bring about the 'Age of the Crimson Empress'.) Furthermore, it appears that these mechoservitors were programmed to utilize more benign means of carrying out their intentions indicating that they probably aren't on board with the radical Crimson Empress scheme. Logically, a mechoservitor with programming knowledge could reprogram his companion mechoservitors if he/it believed it was the only way to preserve the light. 

 

 

P.S. I intend to post my thoughts on pages 1-87 on or after August 1.

Distinguished Bibliophile
pen21
Posts: 3,653
Registered: ‎03-23-2009
0 Kudos

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

 


ToniWI wrote:

I am a new to the series reader and I am intrigued.  I tend to judge books by their cover and this one is good but not great.  The cover says that this is a book about blond (not white haired) warrior with a wolf as a companion and birds of prey watching/ following him.  The use of "The Psalms of....., gives this book a biblical slant the inclusion of the Publishers weekly review left me with questions that I wanted to have anwered.

 

Though I haven't read the first two books, I didn't find myself lost, trying to figure out what was going on.  The first 6 chapters sucked me into the world Scholes built and kept me interested and wanting more.  I find myself needing to know how this story plays out. 

 

In this case I would have passed up a good read because the cover didn't speak to me.

 

 


 

 

ToniWI,

It is good to know that someone can pick up the third book and get sucked in to Scholes.

Welcome. Luanne

Distinguished Bibliophile
pen21
Posts: 3,653
Registered: ‎03-23-2009

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

 


Nadine wrote:

 


ABShaeffer wrote:

 


pen21 wrote:

 

WIth Crimson in the title and just my feelings, I have always thought the Crimson Empress was a Li Tam.

 


 

Ooooh. That's interesting, especially if Nadine is right and the Li Tams are descendents of the Younger Gods. Could the Crimson Empress mark the return of the Younger Gods?

 


 

 

I'm wondering if the "ghost in the water" is one of the Younger Gods. This is crazy speculation bewcause we don't have enough history yet. The water near the Blood Magic Temple are obviously some sort of portal, and the same portal mentioned at the end of the Weeping Czar,

 

I had assumed the ghost must be Amal but this could be the same portal used to banish the Younger Gods. So the Ghost could be a Younger God.

 

Weeping Czar

 

It was slender and beautiful and it coiled around the pillar of the dock before sliding off and out—a line of blue-green light moving deeper and away, as if part of the moon had fallen and now sank.

Amal. He couldn’t tell if he said it aloud or silently. But a sudden fancy took him. Soft and low, he whistled the tune he’d been playing just minutes ago and watched the light flicker as it turned about and drifted slowly back to him.

What had her father said? Her body could not make the journey.

And he realized then that the Year of the Falling Moon was not about conquest and war, vendetta and violence. They’d only had part of Carnelyin’s gospel. The angry, broken potshards of loss. Those would still come but they were not the message of promise.

No, Frederico realized, this gospel was really about love. A love so strong that it would swim, relentless, at any price. And so piercing that it could be heard in the deepest of dark places.


 

I have been reading how several have commented on the ghost in the water and Amal. I will be paying closer attention to this.  Especailly how it could be tied to the Younger Gods.

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
pen21
Posts: 3,653
Registered: ‎03-23-2009
0 Kudos

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

 


dalnewt wrote:

 


ABShaeffer wrote:

 


pen21 wrote:

 

I think who is programming them is critical. Charles thought he had a back door and could get in to the small mechanical, but found someone else had programmed it. It could be mechoservitors and the mechanical birds are being 'controlled' by different factions.

 


 

 

What if the mechoservitors are controlling themselves? What if they can use the birds to communicate? If there are others like the Watcher and Isaak, could they be programming the small mechanicals to deliver their messages for whatever purpose they're pursuing?

 

Ken Scholes, you are rocking my socks over here!


 

I've considered the possibility that blood wizard(s) left behind one or more mechoservitor(s) to carry out some plan. (It could be a plan of ultimate revenge or even something to do with somehow resurrecting Raj's daughter Amal whose spirit still presumably resides in the world. After-all, the Y'Zirites and the ancient 'Watcher' mechoservitor want to bring about the 'Age of the Crimson Empress'.) Furthermore, it appears that these mechoservitors were programmed to utilize more benign means of carrying out their intentions indicating that they probably aren't on board with the radical Crimson Empress scheme. Logically, a mechoservitor with programming knowledge could reprogram his companion mechoservitors if he/it believed it was the only way to preserve the light. 

 

 

P.S. I intend to post my thoughts on pages 1-87 on or after August 1.


 

 

dalnewt,

Very good points.  I will be watching for your posts. I will keep watching and posting on this section. It wil give everyone time to get in sync. There is a lot in the first section. I also like that people are brining up good points from the previous book and the Weeping Czar.

Luanne

Distinguished Bibliophile
pen21
Posts: 3,653
Registered: ‎03-23-2009

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

 


Nadine wrote:

 


ABShaeffer wrote:

 


pen21 wrote:

 

I think who is programming them is critical. Charles thought he had a back door and could get in to the small mechanical, but found someone else had programmed it. It could be mechoservitors and the mechanical birds are being 'controlled' by different factions.

 


 

 

What if the mechoservitors are controlling themselves? What if they can use the birds to communicate? If there are others like the Watcher and Isaak, could they be programming the small mechanicals to deliver their messages for whatever purpose they're pursuing?

 

Ken Scholes, you are rocking my socks over here!


 

 

I am leaning strongly in that direction. The Watcher is a mechoservitor and is functioning pretty independently. The birds seem to be pretty smart too. I would put The Watcher right now as Mechoservitor #2. I think there is a higher up mechoservitor doing this.

 

Lets look at the Kin Raven and Moon Sparrow encounter. In the Canticle Postlude the Kin Raven heads south. We don't know why but it is south from the Marshlands. In the Prelude to Antiphon the Moon Sparrow heads northeast and must be leaving from an area near the Ghosting Crest. They somehow meet right in the location of Jin Li Tam. The Kin Raven damages the Moon Sparrow very percisely but doesn't destroy it, and in fact seems to be making a big show of destroying it when Jin arrives and rescues the Moon Sparrow.. She takes it to Charles who reactivates it and it delivers a specific message to Isaak. And then it escapes, thanks to Isaak, carrying another message.

 

Now that doesn't seem coincidental to me! There is a plan working here and the mechoservitors in all camps might be working together.

 

Since these are the Psalms of Isaak, I am wondering if he becomes so human that he eventually breaks his possible ties with the mechoservitors and does something really heroic. But this is all purely speculation and not based on much. But it is fun!


 

 

Yes this is fun. 

I think that Mechoservitor #2 as the Watcher is good. I think Ken has more up his sleeves for the next few books that he is not ready to really hint at yet.

The part I bolded I think sums up alot about the mechoservitors.

And Isaak as a hero, really fits into the story for me. Isaak is spending a lot of time asking questions and trying to figure things out.

Distinguished Bibliophile
Nadine
Posts: 2,456
Registered: ‎10-30-2006

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

dalnewt wrote:

I've considered the possibility that blood wizard(s) left behind one or more mechoservitor(s) to carry out some plan. (It could be a plan of ultimate revenge or even something to do with somehow resurrecting Raj's daughter Amal whose spirit still presumably resides in the world. After-all, the Y'Zirites and the ancient 'Watcher' mechoservitor want to bring about the 'Age of the Crimson Empress'.) Furthermore, it appears that these mechoservitors were programmed to utilize more benign means of carrying out their intentions indicating that they probably aren't on board with the radical Crimson Empress scheme. Logically, a mechoservitor with programming knowledge could reprogram his companion mechoservitors if he/it believed it was the only way to preserve the light.

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

And interesting idea and a very good possibility. I have been assuming that all the mechoservitors were reconstructions by the Androfrancines, specifically Charles. But in this section of the book, I beginning to get a feeling that there are Charles' mechoservitors and some others. Ditto with the birds.

 

But I'm also getting the feeling that Charles' mechoservitors and birds are growing beyond him and this may be the doings of some "others" and I don't think it is Ria and her gang.

 

Also Ria warned Rodolfo of another threat. Specifically one that might want to harm Jakob. Now I don't know if that was some sort of tactic of hers to gain more power and infultrate Rudolfo's domain or if there is a threat that she knows about. These dream encounters and the Waste-runners might not be of her doing and could be directly planted at some time by the wizards. Ulitmately I think Ria is just a tool of somebody else.

 

I definitely feel that there is anothe faction in here but we don't know for sure yet what their motivation is or where they came from.

 

-------------------------------------------------

P.S. I intend to post my thoughts on pages 1-87 on or after August 1.

-------------------------------------------------

 

Good idea. A lot of people are scrambling to get caught up. About 20 people now have specifically stated they want to be in the weekly read-alongs and not many of those have had a chance to post their thoughts and speculations yet. I'm quite willing to wait for everyone to get caught up and on board.

 

 

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
Nadine
Posts: 2,456
Registered: ‎10-30-2006

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

Luanne wrote:

 

I think that Mechoservitor #2 as the Watcher is good. I think Ken has more up his sleeves for the next few books that he is not ready to really hint at yet.

The part I bolded I think sums up alot about the mechoservitors.

And Isaak as a hero, really fits into the story for me. Isaak is spending a lot of time asking questions and trying to figure things out.

-------------------------------------------

 

He is growing and he is inquisitive. I kind of think of him as a Star Trek Data except for his physical appearance. But he is lying more and the humans around him can tell because he vents steam.And his very curious question to Charles on page 40 "What level of malfunction would be necessary for a mechoservitor to practice active deception, and can it be corrected?

 

Actually I am still puzzling over the beginning of Lamentation, when Sethbert's men bring back all the mechoservitors except for Isaak but take his leg off. And Isaak was the most advanced and the one who caused the catastraphy.

Distinguished Bibliophile
Nadine
Posts: 2,456
Registered: ‎10-30-2006

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

dalnewt wrote:

I've considered the possibility that blood wizard(s) left behind one or more mechoservitor(s) to carry out some plan.

 

=============================

 

I just noticed something dalnewt that adds to you theory. Pages 40-41

 

"Two thousand years earlier, Xhum Y'Zir's death choir of similar mechanicals had sung the spell and brought about the Age of Laughing Madness and the end of the Old World."

 

The mechoservitors survived the destruction of Windwir and these probably servived this destruction and would be still around.

Distinguished Bibliophile
Nadine
Posts: 2,456
Registered: ‎10-30-2006

Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

Predictions

 

While we are waiting for everyone to get caught up, I thought I would post some of the predictions the "experts" made in November 2009. I just thought it might be fun to have them handy as the "real" story unfolds. Thanks for the tags Melissa:

 


Melhay wrote:

With out going back through the posts I made on individual predictions I am going to make a large vague one.

 

I think we are going to have the whole world in an uprise.  Crazyness is going to hit and we are going to have Ria and her followers at the center of it.  People are not going to know if or when Machtvolk are coming.  Although, the Ninefold forest will be save for the moment, with pressure from Ria.  She is going to want Winters, Jin, Rudolfo, and Jakob on her side.  Who's to say they don't try to kidnap Jakob.

===============================

 

Nadine: No doubt Ria is going to be a key player here. I'm not sure if she is a "good" guy or a "bad" guy, but right now in my head she is on the evil side. I also don't know if she is her own power hungry person or if she works for someone else. I gather she is some sort of priestess. I just want to add to this the speculation that she might have a child by Mal -- a female child who may be destined to marry Jakob.

 

========================

 

I think Neb and Renard are on their tour of the Churning wastes but we are not going to hear to much there.  Neb may learn a few new things but that may be all.  Neb will most likely run into the mechoservitors where ever they are hidding out.  I do feel that these mechoservitors have all been rescripted to believe like the metal charles in the Marsher way and is against Androfrancine (although it will not be out right known.)

==============================

Nadine: I think we will have some advancement in this area. I'm not sure if Antiphon will focus on activites in the Churning Wastes or significant advancement of that part of the plot will be saved for a later book. My feeling right now is that it will be a major storyline in Antiphon, mainly because so many people are focused on The Churning Waste and that the adventures of Neb, Renard, and Isaak were mainly a set-up in Canticle in preperation for Antiphon. I think we will be learning a lot more about these Mechoservitors and it will be mainly through Nebs POV and maybe a bit through Petronous' PVO. I still think we are not getting full information via Petronous and that pattern will contiune in Antiphon but I think more will be revealed via Charles (human).

 

==========================

Don't forget we still have Vlad off at sea again.  What will he find at that palace Ria was at?  Will he go into the basement where the blood was piped too?  I think he will find some valuable pieces as well.

======================

Nadine: Good point. I had forgotten about Vlad. I think what you stated above is quite valid but Vlad will probably have a minor part in Antiphon. But I think he will be key in discovering something very significant.

============================

 

Lysias is going to be a big player in the next book.  He has to much information in his head for the way he worked with the popes and such.  And his daughter conveniantly in a powerful position with baby Jakob.  There is more here than what we think.

 

=====================================

Nadine: I totally agree with you here. This has been significantly set up in Canticle and Ken will have to run with it in Antiphon or everyone will forget about them. We have been given tantalizing clues about Lysias in the final section of Canticle so we have been told -- "stand by more to come!"

======================================

 

I think there is going to be chaos in Erlunds area.  Erlund would not have been spared for no reason.  Erlund and the Delta leader (indepentants of his area) are going to have connections here.

 

============================

Nadine: I had forgotten about all that civil unrest in the Delta area. Something is going to develop there and I thinnk we will some progress in the plot for that movement but I'm not sure if it will be a major plot line in Antiphon. Still we have been set up for it, just not toward the end.

=========================

 

Mairov is going to want her vengence here soon too.  Will she go after Winter or Ria?  I think Winter will be in danger here for a short while.  I also don't think Winters and Neb will see each other for some time.  Remember in the book it is said she will be very sad or cry or something.  With this I think they are going to be separated and not dream together for a while.

 

====================================

Nadine: I'm not sure what is up with her. She is definitely becoming a key player, possible more so than we have realized up until now. I don't know if revenge is what she is really after. That might be mainly a front. She is still on my short list for Crimson Queen.

=======================================

 

I think Petronus and his followers will find things out in the Churning Wastes that they may not know what they are very much.  We also have the mystery of the affect of the Churning Wastes.  There will be some clues to that but not a true answer.

 

======================

Nadine: Agreed.

==================

 

I think we will get some answers and a crazyness will rise that will cause the world to end in a different light.  Maybe in a light that is upside down but will conclude what is happening, just leave us with more clues and questions to play out here to who is the controller of all this mayhem.

 

With that said, I CANNOT wait!!!!  I am going to have to look back through my posts as well for more details for what is going to happen.  This is just a skimming overview.

 

Pen wrote:

n concentrating on the mechoservitors and the large role I predict they will have, I fear that the third book Antiphon will only give me a few more hints into the mechoservitor world.

Ken has kept each of these books full of action, plot twists, character revelation, etc. I am sure the last 3 books will be their equal. But considering the hidden world or hidden control that I think the mechoservitors have, I think that I won't find as much as I would like in the third book about the mechoservitors.

But I agree with a majority of the predictions that have been put out there. And I think we will have an excellent read with Antiphon.

pen21

===============================================

 

I too believe these mechoservitors are going to be very important and quite surprising in future book. They are turning out to be very unpredictable and irratic. I don't know if they are defective, have been modified by two different sides working against each other, or they have somehow gained a human persona with the ability to be decitful, cunning, and have their own agenda.

 

There have been a lot of curious things about them from the beginning. Remember the beginning of Lamentation. Sethbert's men rounded up and retrieved all of them except for Isaak. they just removed his leg and figured they would go back for them. That was odd. They took all the lesser ones and left the mastermind. And toward the end of Canticle we have them destroying Sanctorum Lux and emptying the provision cave.

 

I think Neb's POV starting on page 329 is a key one. I want to review that because I think Neb, the Mechoservitors, Charles (the man), and Isaak will be key players in Antiphon but the book will end with even more surprises and confusion about the mechoservitors. This will all be centered in The Churning Wastes and Port Charis (the birthplace of P'Andro Whym) will be an important location for the action. I think Petronus will also end up there.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Great idea – and some excellent theories. I'm going to look at it from a "five-volume series" perspective. The middle volumes are sometimes called "bridge" books because they connect the beginning with the eventual conclusion. If we look into the future and speculate how the series will end, we can kind of fill in the gaps a little bit... There has to be some kind of huge, apocalyptic conflict – maybe political, maybe religious. And of course, Book Five should revolve around the results of that conflict. But in Antiphon, there has to be something to trigger that conflict – and I think those answers are in the Churning Wastes. I think as far as bombshell plot twists are concerned, Antiphon should be loaded with them... (practically salivating as I writing this.)

 

Paul

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I think Neb and Petronus might be connected somehow. Remember in Lamintation it was Petronus who rescued Neb and he must have had a good reason for doing so.

 

We also didn't see Isaak playing too major a role in Canticle except to lead Neb deeper into the Wastelands. I think he will step forward and be more instrumental in the plot for Antiphon. We may even see more "malfunctioning" (deliberate or not) of Isaak and the other mechoservitors.

 

Nadine wrote: Winters

 

There is another loose end I would like to address -- Winters. Essentially she is a Queen without a country now. She has shed her Marsher persona by washing all the mud off and has joined Jin's household. I think this signals that she is going to have a totally different role in Antiphon.

 

She is now a member of the Gypsies. I beleive Neb, in some fashion, is also on the gypsy "payrole" since the gypsies now have a foothold in the Wastelands (I believe the southern section) and also control the Keeper's Gate. The Gypsies also have the only presently existing library (that we are sure of) and some of the metal men. They also have a good relationship with Petronus. No doubt they will be participating in whatever is going to happen in The Churning Wastes.

 

Because Winters has devested herself of her Marshers identiy and joined the Gypsies, I think she will probably join Neb in The Churning Wastes and together they will work on unraveling this puzzle.

pen21 added - The thought that Winters and Neb are both with the Gypsies does put a lot of empasis on the Churning Wastes for Antiphon. I think you are right they will both end up there. I am curious what mechoservitors we will find there.

 


It is possible that Amal did make it and established the royal line with Frederico.
Amal's father, Raj Y'Zir probably didn't know that Amal had found his hidden
library and was prepared to pass through the Bargaining Pool. I don't know what
all this might mean for our wild preditions but the parallel of the form in the
water with Rae Li Tam is interesting.

pen21 added - I copied this piece from one of  your posts. I agree there leaves a possibility of Amal being more prepared than her father thought. With the use of their magicks, maybe this isn't such a wild prediction. I like the idea that Amal could have made in through in some form.




I have another prediction for Antiphon. We are going to hear a lot more from Lysias.
He had a few POVs in Canticle and has been present at pivital happenings in both
Lamentation and Canticle. Also his daughter Lynnae who was put in Jin's household
quite deliberately by the "powers that be."
But his last two POVs are real bombshells and worth some more discussion. You will
find them in Chapter 23 on page 333 and chapter 24 on page 357. Well worth
rereading, especially since we don't know much about or what Ignatio was up to.

pen21 added - I agree that Lysias will have a larger role in Antiphon. It appears that his role was just building at the end of Canticle. The placement of his daughter Lynnae and the events in her life are too well orchestrated. It was brought up before by you Nadine or Melhay that too much trust was placed in Lynnae in the care of Jakob.

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ABShaeffer
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Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

 


Nadine wrote:

Predictions

 

While we are waiting for everyone to get caught up, I thought I would post some of the predictions the "experts" made in November 2009. I just thought it might be fun to have them handy as the "real" story unfolds. Thanks for the tags Melissa:

 


Melhay wrote:

With out going back through the posts I made on individual predictions I am going to make a large vague one.

 

I

Lysias is going to be a big player in the next book.  He has to much information in his head for the way he worked with the popes and such.  And his daughter conveniantly in a powerful position with baby Jakob.  There is more here than what we think.

 

=====================================

Nadine: I totally agree with you here. This has been significantly set up in Canticle and Ken will have to run with it in Antiphon or everyone will forget about them. We have been given tantalizing clues about Lysias in the final section of Canticle so we have been told -- "stand by more to come!"

======================================

I'm curious about Lysias' loyalties. I agree that there is more here than we think and I can't help but question whose side he's really on. He appears to be firmly in Rudolfo's camp, but he's changed sides before (or maybe he hasn't, and has been on one side this whole time). Just a thought.

 

Artists of all disciplines must be willing to go into the dark, let go control, be surprised. - Madeleine L’Engle
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Nadine
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Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

Weeping Czar

 

I did not realize there was an audio for The Weeping Czar.  If you haven't discovered it, it is terrific. Just check out "Listen" in the left hand corner. It gives you a whole new perspective on the story.

 

The Lunar Resurgence seems a lot like the Y'Zirites Resurgence. The "crescent" was a relic of Lunar Resurgence. And Neb has it now and the Y'Zirites don't.

 

Also I get a feeling that Frederico was consider something of a god. Maybe something to do with the Younger Gods. A descendent or something.

 

Also I noted that the prisoners from the Lunar Resurgence were delivered to the Ministry of Social Behavior. And then Hebda was the Arch-Behaviorist. A connection? Don't know.

 

Also the Frederico's servents were dressed in crimson livery. A connection?

 

Also Frederico is fond of Peach Wine. Hmmm!

 

Amal's father thought she had fallen in love with one of the "Machtvolk boys."

 

Lots of parallels here but also a lot puzzles too.

 

I believe The Weeping Czar was written before Lamentation and early on in the original Lamentation discussion, Ken said this was important. We didn't find a lot then but the more information we we acquire in the books, the more relevant it becomes.

 

More later.

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kenscholes
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Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

Howdy folks!  You all amaze and delight me with your discussion of the series.  Lots of good stuff here.  I spend a lot of my time just rubbing my hands together and saying "Muahahahahahaha" while reading your posts.

 

I'm excited to be here and though I know I'm only signed up officially for a week or so, you should know from the last few books that I'll be dropping by throughout.  And we'll have others dropping by, too.

 

Someone had asked in another thread if Rudolfo's amazement and gratitude about his people honoring him and his family stemmed from my feelings about how well the books are being received.  I can see why it might seem that way and I certainly DO feel an amazed gratitude about how it's all gone, but....  I actually wrote that scene about five months before Lamentation came out so I really didn't know how well received it would be.  It has more to do with him appreciating his people's love for him and acceptance of his family more given how much he's been through.  Loss shifting perspective, making him cherish the good in the face of the evil he's seen.  The series is largely about how loss and tragedy shape people.

 

I had something similar happen with the birth scene -- a reader mentioned that it was obvious how the birth of my daughters must've informed my writing of Jakob's birth scene from Rudolfo's POV in Canticle.  Funny thing...I wrote that scene about a year before we got pregnant.  Some other reviewer had noted that I must've taken feedback from the reviews of Lamentation based on how I corrected shortcomings of the first book in Canticle.  But Canticle was actually finished and delivered about seven months before Lamentation came out.  Any course corrections were just me following my characters and story to the next place they needed to go, growing as a writer as I did.

 

Fascinating stuff.

 

Oh, and "A Weeping Czar..." was written while I was in the midst of writing Canticle.  I started it just before the book deal happened and then when my Mom died just a month later, the story twisted itself into a processing of that loss dressed up as an impossible romance between a Czar and a Moon Wizard's daughter.  It is set approximately 4,000 years before the events in Lamentation.  I believe (but am not certain) that I finished it while celebrating my fortieth birthday in Mexico in January 2008.

 

Oh, and we're trying to land that B&N in Huntington Beach.  Keep watching my blog or FB for details of the tour. 

 

Post your questions and I'll try to answer them!

 

 

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Re: ANTIPHON SNEAK PEEK: Section 1, Reintroduction: page 1-87

 


kenscholes wrote:

Howdy folks!  You all amaze and delight me with your discussion of the series.  Lots of good stuff here.  I spend a lot of my time just rubbing my hands together and saying "Muahahahahahaha" while reading your posts.

 

I'm excited to be here and though I know I'm only signed up officially for a week or so, you should know from the last few books that I'll be dropping by throughout.  And we'll have others dropping by, too.

 

Someone had asked in another thread if Rudolfo's amazement and gratitude about his people honoring him and his family stemmed from my feelings about how well the books are being received.  I can see why it might seem that way and I certainly DO feel an amazed gratitude about how it's all gone, but....  I actually wrote that scene about five months before Lamentation came out so I really didn't know how well received it would be.  It has more to do with him appreciating his people's love for him and acceptance of his family more given how much he's been through.  Loss shifting perspective, making him cherish the good in the face of the evil he's seen.  The series is largely about how loss and tragedy shape people.

 

I had something similar happen with the birth scene -- a reader mentioned that it was obvious how the birth of my daughters must've informed my writing of Jakob's birth scene from Rudolfo's POV in Canticle.  Funny thing...I wrote that scene about a year before we got pregnant.  Some other reviewer had noted that I must've taken feedback from the reviews of Lamentation based on how I corrected shortcomings of the first book in Canticle.  But Canticle was actually finished and delivered about seven months before Lamentation came out.  Any course corrections were just me following my characters and story to the next place they needed to go, growing as a writer as I did.

 

Fascinating stuff.

 

Oh, and "A Weeping Czar..." was written while I was in the midst of writing Canticle.  I started it just before the book deal happened and then when my Mom died just a month later, the story twisted itself into a processing of that loss dressed up as an impossible romance between a Czar and a Moon Wizard's daughter.  It is set approximately 4,000 years before the events in Lamentation.  I believe (but am not certain) that I finished it while celebrating my fortieth birthday in Mexico in January 2008.

 

Oh, and we're trying to land that B&N in Huntington Beach.  Keep watching my blog or FB for details of the tour. 

 

Post your questions and I'll try to answer them!

 

 


 

 

I hope you get that B&N booked! It's a great location.

 

And thanks for a look behind the scenes of your writing Ken!

Artists of all disciplines must be willing to go into the dark, let go control, be surprised. - Madeleine L’Engle