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TiggerBear
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman


Melhay wrote:

TiggerBear wrote:

paulgoatallen wrote:

Melhay wrote:

Okay, Has anyone read this book yet?

 

I went to the book store this evening with all good intentions on buying it.  BUT, when I got there I just couldn't bring by self to spend $25 on one book.  I am sorry.  Christmas has drained me of all funds currently.  And the more I stood there looking at it I just didn't know if I would like it.

 

So, if anyone has read this yet please let me know if I made a mistake and should have spent the money....

 

Melissa


Melissa:

I've been waiting around for someone to post and I've been more than surprised at how dead this thread is! 

 

Either: A. No one is buying this book, or B. People are reading it and not liking it. Either way I thought I'd get quite a few comments about how good or bad this book is....

 

Maybe I should be asking, "why isn't anyone intereted in this book?" Geez, this was one of the BIG releases this month...

Paul 


(cough) thought I answered that question already


 

You kind of answered the question.  You did already said when you flipped through the book you were not impressed so you didn't buy it.  It seemed to similar to the other books and too much $.  You also did mention only so many times of the same flavor, variation and characters that you can read the same plot.

 

Buuut you didn't say you read it.  I was wondering if it really is the same.  And, I have not read any of the others.  So maybe it would be okay for me to read.  But for the price maybe I'll go buy one of the older ones if I will get the same thing but cheaper.  I do agree it is a little to much in the pocket currently but I am wondering if there is anyone who thought it was worth it.

 

And I was wondering what other people may have thought, since there isn't to many posts here.

 

But thank you very much for your thoughts on the book.  That is what I wanted to hear.  It sounds as though I may have made the correct choice.

 

Melissa


alright to put it more clearly   in answer to Paul's question  A

 

But yes of course; it ok for you to read it, buy it, enjoy it.  For you it is not a retread, it is first experiance with these authors. Personally I recomend their earlier series; very very good, and cheaper. Down right easy to find them even in used book stores. For me I think 25 bucks to check out a new author is asking too much. (shrug) It up to you.

 

But for me 25 bucks for a ok retread is way too much. I'll pick it up one day after it hits paperback. Hardcover prices require cream, not skim milk. 

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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

[ Edited ]

Well at least now we have some activity here!

 

That was a big reason why I picked this title as a feature – there was quite a bit of hype surrounding it but I had some doubts about it being as good as their "classic" stuff and I thought longtime fantasy fans who have read the Dragonlance novels, Darksword, etc. would enjoy discussing the similiarities and differences...

 

But the readers have spoken loud and clear by just not reading it – NEXT!

Paul 

Message Edited by paulgoatallen on 01-17-2009 10:01 AM
"There never can be a man so lost as one who is lost in the vast and intricate corridors of his own lonely mind, where none may reach and none may save..." – Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky
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lilithesquee
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

I do plan to read this book but I have a stack of library books I am trudging through right now, and my library doesn't have this one yet.  Often they are a month or two behind on books.  I rarely buy first in a series. 

 

I have read lots of all the classic stuff of theirs and also have read much of what Wies writes solo or with others.  I like her writing.  I look forward to this one even though I am not big on dragons.  

 

lily 

 

 

Dude, Where's My Book!
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Nadine
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

Actually, I think the main problem is with the price. Obviously people are reading it or people like Toni would not be at the bottom of a long library waiting list, and many people seem to be waiting for it from the library. I would get it and read it and actually take a chance on it if it were not for the fact that it is so expensive and this group has a dismal track record of actually talking about books. That would be my main reason for reading it. Don't forget I have read few SF/Fantasy books and there are a lot "standard" quality books that I haven't gotten to.
Your book choices, Paul, have been excellent and provide some new material for old-time readers and they are thought provoking. I just don't think this is a book discussion group. People want to talk about what they have read, what they are reading now, what they haven't read, recommendations of what to read, and what their favorite books are but no one wants to actually have a serious discussion about a book. All the remarks are very general. This is not an indepth group.
 Now this may be just the impression of a very small vocal group. The serious discussion-type people feel they don't fit in are waiting for some focus and something to get going.
I think Bones of the Dragon would have had a better chance as a later book, even February would have been better. It wasn't even published until the 6th of January and then the month was a half over, hardly time for people to read current reviews, to buy it, or get it from their library. People are psyched up to get going with a discussion at the beginning of the month and lose interest as the month goes on.
Also if it were the only book for the month and a "focus". You want to discuss a book? This is the one we are going to talk about--guaranteed. Not whichever of three choices people might get into. A bit of a gamble if you want to bet $25 that this one will be the winner, if there really could be a winner with a small population reading three books rather than a large population reading one book. And then the intitiation on day one of a serious discussion with guidance. The idea of providing a good book for the various interests of this very diversified group was a good one and the choices really addressed that. You would proably have much better luck if there were two separate groups--a fantasy and SF. The genre focus is very sucessful in Paranormal because that is a narrower field
 Of course there is the most important question addressed to the group as a whole. Does anyone here actually want to have a serious discussion about a book or is everyone just interested in reporting on their own reading experiences in general terms?   If you are interested, step forward now and say so, otherwise I would say forget it and leave the group as a general information exchange and not try to make it a book club.
 I'm not shy. I would like to see a real SF/Fantasy book club and I would participate in the discussion of the featured book. Count me in. OK we have one!
 OK, Paul you have one. If you can't get at least ten, I would say forget it.
 
 

paulgoatallen wrote:

Well at least now we have some activity here!

 

That was a big reason why I picked this title as a feature – there was quite a bit of hype surrounding it but I had some doubts about it being as good as their "classic" stuff and I thought longtime fantasy fans who have read the Dragonlance novels, Darksword, etc. would enjoy discussing the similiarities and differences...

 

But the readers have spoken loud and clear by just not reading it – NEXT!

Paul 

Message Edited by paulgoatallen on 01-17-2009 10:01 AM

 

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Nadine
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

Here is a video introduction to Bones of the Dragon from the authors.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEjnMe60Ibs

 

From my research I gather that the book suffers from expectation. There was quite a bit of early hype which pushed up expectations and the authors have produced such quality fantasy series previously that this new book and series is being measured against that. I'm not familiar with their work or the early on hype so I would be judging it on its own and it might fare better that way.  More seasoned readers probably find little new in most fantasy since so much has been done and redone in that area. The hook in this story series is that it is also a coming of age story and the Norse/Greek gods tie in where the gods meddle in human affairs and take sides. The protanganists are also very young. I think the hero is 17 so this also may have a greater appeal to young adults. 

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paulgoatallen
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman


lilithesquee wrote:

I have read lots of all the classic stuff of theirs and also have read much of what Wies writes solo or with others.  I like her writing.  I look forward to this one even though I am not big on dragons. 


Lily:

Dragons are obviously featured in this series but they're as integral as you'd imagine, at least not in this first installment. Very much a secondary element so not to worry...

Paul 

"There never can be a man so lost as one who is lost in the vast and intricate corridors of his own lonely mind, where none may reach and none may save..." – Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

[ Edited ]

Nadine wrote:

Here is a video introduction to Bones of the Dragon from the authors.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEjnMe60Ibs



Nadine:

Very informative video – I suggest that readers still "on the fence" about this series check this out...

 

I do agree with you about the "expectation" element and that's precisely why this release was so interesting to me. Here's two authors who, in large part, redefined adventure fantasy (especially RPG fantasy) decades ago with phenomenally successful series. But fame can be fleeting and the question here is can two veteran collaborators regain that creative spark that launched sagas like Dragonlance and Rose of the Prophet... 

 

As I wrote earlier, I think it's still too early too tell but I did find the similarities between this novel and their very first works – specifically the battling gods motif – very interesting... 

Paul 

Message Edited by paulgoatallen on 01-17-2009 06:59 PM
"There never can be a man so lost as one who is lost in the vast and intricate corridors of his own lonely mind, where none may reach and none may save..." – Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

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Nadine
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

 

--------

paulgoatallen wrote:

Well at least now we have some activity here!

 

That was a big reason why I picked this title as a feature – there was quite a bit of hype surrounding it but I had some doubts about it being as good as their "classic" stuff and I thought longtime fantasy fans who have read the Dragonlance novels, Darksword, etc. would enjoy discussing the similiarities and differences...

 

But the readers have spoken loud and clear by just not reading it – NEXT!

Paul

----------------------------------------

 

Actually, Paul, if you really look closely at the comments, virtually all the people have not read it because it is too expensive (and they are sitting on the fence to see if the book is worth the $25) or their library has not gotten it yet.

 

Only one person has made a negative comment about it and that is Tiggerbear, who said she only skimmed it and it looked like a retread. And again the price tag was a consideration.

 

So the reasons why people are not reading it has nothing to do with the book or the book choice--it is either unavailable or too expensive.

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Nelsmom
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

Paul,

 

I have always planned on reading this book just not buy it so when my name comes up as soon as someone that already has it returns it I will read and post my thoughts.

 

Toni

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paulgoatallen
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman


Nadine wrote:

 

--------

paulgoatallen wrote:

Well at least now we have some activity here!

 

That was a big reason why I picked this title as a feature – there was quite a bit of hype surrounding it but I had some doubts about it being as good as their "classic" stuff and I thought longtime fantasy fans who have read the Dragonlance novels, Darksword, etc. would enjoy discussing the similiarities and differences...

 

But the readers have spoken loud and clear by just not reading it – NEXT!

Paul

----------------------------------------

 

Actually, Paul, if you really look closely at the comments, virtually all the people have not read it because it is too expensive (and they are sitting on the fence to see if the book is worth the $25) or their library has not gotten it yet.

 

Only one person has made a negative comment about it and that is Tiggerbear, who said she only skimmed it and it looked like a retread. And again the price tag was a consideration.

 

So the reasons why people are not reading it has nothing to do with the book or the book choice--it is either unavailable or too expensive.


Nadine:

I have really looked closely at the comments and I wasn't referring so much to the quality of the book as to the quality of the discussion.

Paul 

"There never can be a man so lost as one who is lost in the vast and intricate corridors of his own lonely mind, where none may reach and none may save..." – Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky
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Nadine
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

I gather from looking at the video that Weis is the storyteller and Hickman is the world builder. I was wondering, what made their series so successful, was it the world that Hickman created or the story that Weis told? I think most people tend to focus on the story and leave the world building as background. But the world creation is what made Tolkien's books so unique. Maybe many fantasy writers fall down in the world creation side and turn into copycats. Or was their collaboration a unique blending of two different talents?
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman


Nadine wrote:
I gather from looking at the video that Weis is the storyteller and Hickman is the world builder. I was wondering, what made their series so successful, was it the world that Hickman created or the story that Weis told? I think most people tend to focus on the story and leave the world building as background. But the world creation is what made Tolkien's books so unique. Maybe many fantasy writers fall down in the world creation side and turn into copycats. Or was their collaboration a unique blending of two different talents?

That's exactly it, Nadine – the collaboration works because both authors focus on their strengths.  Some fantasy storylines focus too much on world-building while others too much on character development. When Weis and Hickman are at their very best (like Dragons of Autumn Twilight) these two strengths blend together to create a story that is character-driven but also meticulously described. The Dragonlance novels were "supplements" to the TSR D&D game so if you imagine a killer D&D campaign written in novel form, that's a pretty good description of a classic W/H collaboration.  

 

And while Weis and Hickman were pioneers in adventure fantasy, comparing their work to Tolkien's – even tangentially – is a stretch.... Tolkien was the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) and I really doubt that we'll ever see any series of novels with that much of a profound impact on a genre. Honestly, I've never read any SF or fantasy novel that even comes close to the scope and depth of the world-building mastery in Tolkien's LOTR. 

Paul 

"There never can be a man so lost as one who is lost in the vast and intricate corridors of his own lonely mind, where none may reach and none may save..." – Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman


Nadine wrote:
I gather from looking at the video that Weis is the storyteller and Hickman is the world builder. I was wondering, what made their series so successful, was it the world that Hickman created or the story that Weis told? I think most people tend to focus on the story and leave the world building as background. But the world creation is what made Tolkien's books so unique. Maybe many fantasy writers fall down in the world creation side and turn into copycats. Or was their collaboration a unique blending of two different talents?

Now that is interesting.

 

If world is good, will bad writing make it only ok? If the writings good does it matter if the world doesn't match up? 

 

For me, both are nessisary. Can I ingore so so writing in a bad world, I have in the past when other authors take up a dead writers creation. I usually don't find it matching up to the original. But there are fantasic stand outs. 

Setting frankly is an intergal part of a story. Tolkien, Howard, Lovecraft, Heinlien, Zelasny, Brust,and co  their worlds are what tempers the steel of the story. Without a good world creation even the best story is like a snowball fight in a desert; not enough material to work with.

 

 

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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

Paul Wrote:

Tolkien was the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time)

-------------------------------------------------

 

 Is that what your middle name means, Paul?!

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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman


Melhay wrote:

I have not read any of the previous books by Weis and Hickman.  I thought the new one would be something I liked.  I think I am going to see about getting it then when I am done I will have to add the Dragonlance Novels to my, quickly growing, list.  (I just love this)

 

After hearing how everyone is worried of it being a rehash I will have to read them and compare.  However, it may take me a little bit of time.  (sigh, say a month or two.)

 

Melissa


I think the Dragonlance Chronicles are where we want to be. I've been reading the reviews of the first trilogy and the reviews are blowing my mind! I can't imagine anything being that good! Paul is sure being low-keyed on this series. The trilogy comes in a boxed set that is cheaper than the new book. I think those of us who are new to these writers would want to start there and then wait and see what others have to say about the new book.

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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman


Nadine wrote:

Paul Wrote:

Tolkien was the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time)

-------------------------------------------------

 

 Is that what your middle name means, Paul?!


HA! No, that means I was the kid in junior high school with an (almost) beard. Everyone called me Goat – even my teachers – and it followed me around (even to a conservative Christian college, which is highly ironic) for so long I just eventually embraced it. When I got a novel published in 1991, I decided to use "Paul Goat Allen" because there was literally dozens of authors named Paul Allen. Not many people have barnyard animals in their name so I was hoping it would be memorable. 

 

So, no, definitely not the Greatest of All Time – except if you're judging beards, my winter beard this year is quite Gandalf-esque! :smileywink:

Paul 

"There never can be a man so lost as one who is lost in the vast and intricate corridors of his own lonely mind, where none may reach and none may save..." – Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman


Nadine wrote:

I think the Dragonlance Chronicles are where we want to be. I've been reading the reviews of the first trilogy and the reviews are blowing my mind! I can't imagine anything being that good! Paul is sure being low-keyed on this series. The trilogy comes in a boxed set that is cheaper than the new book. I think those of us who are new to these writers would want to start there and then wait and see what others have to say about the new book.


Nadine:

I don't think I'm being "low-key" by saying Weis and Hickman were pioneers who redefined adventure fantasy with their numerous series – and especially their first saga, Dragonlance – there's nothing subdued about that!

 

It would be interesting to revisit these novels after so long – it's probably been close to two decades since I read some of the Dragonlance novels.  Adventure fantasy has evolved so much since then – I wonder if I would find them dated or overly simplistic, or if they would stand the test of time...

Paul 

"There never can be a man so lost as one who is lost in the vast and intricate corridors of his own lonely mind, where none may reach and none may save..." – Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky
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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman


Nadine wrote:

Melhay wrote:

I have not read any of the previous books by Weis and Hickman.  I thought the new one would be something I liked.  I think I am going to see about getting it then when I am done I will have to add the Dragonlance Novels to my, quickly growing, list.  (I just love this)

 

After hearing how everyone is worried of it being a rehash I will have to read them and compare.  However, it may take me a little bit of time.  (sigh, say a month or two.)

 

Melissa


I think the Dragonlance Chronicles are where we want to be. I've been reading the reviews of the first trilogy and the reviews are blowing my mind! I can't imagine anything being that good! Paul is sure being low-keyed on this series. The trilogy comes in a boxed set that is cheaper than the new book. I think those of us who are new to these writers would want to start there and then wait and see what others have to say about the new book.


(nodding) Yep if you've never read those two, it's where I think you should start. I've been sugesting it very gently. Any book wriiten in a RPG world seems to get a raw shake for posters here (NOT you Paul).  But the first three were more than excellent and easy to come across. Whether new prints, used, or your library.

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Re: JANUARY FEATURE #1: Bones of the Dragon by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman


paulgoatallen wrote:

Nadine wrote:

I think the Dragonlance Chronicles are where we want to be. I've been reading the reviews of the first trilogy and the reviews are blowing my mind! I can't imagine anything being that good! Paul is sure being low-keyed on this series. The trilogy comes in a boxed set that is cheaper than the new book. I think those of us who are new to these writers would want to start there and then wait and see what others have to say about the new book.


Nadine:

I don't think I'm being "low-key" by saying Weis and Hickman were pioneers who redefined adventure fantasy with their numerous series – and especially their first saga, Dragonlance – there's nothing subdued about that!

 

It would be interesting to revisit these novels after so long – it's probably been close to two decades since I read some of the Dragonlance novels.  Adventure fantasy has evolved so much since then – I wonder if I would find them dated or overly simplistic, or if they would stand the test of time...

Paul 


In my "expert" opinion, I think rereaders would love the Annotated Chronicles. I've been reading the reviews on this and a few sample pages (at the other place). Looks like great stuff (but spoilers for first-time readers). The authors share their thoughts, sources and inspiration on the book details in the margins. And yes they did have Tolkien in mind for some of it.