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Author
NKJemisin
Posts: 50
Registered: ‎02-18-2010

Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

 

dalnewt wrote:

 

NKJemisin wrote:

 

Hi Dalnewt (?),

 

Hmm, it sounds to me like you're a little confused as to who was trying to do what.  Itempas wasn't trying to get the soul, for example; he didn't even know the soul was in Yeine until Kurue told him (not long before the events of the novel).  Itempas didn't *care* about the soul, really.  Let me see if I can explain.  It helps if you consider the various characters' motives, not just the actions they took.

 

This was Kurue's plan:  to give Enefa's soul to Itempas, without letting her fellow Enefadeh know of her betrayal in advance (because they would kill her), and in a way that would make her look good in Itempas' eyes so he would set her free.  Also, without making the Arameri realize she was rebelling against them (because then they might have interfered with her plans, or tortured her to find out what she was up to, or who knows what else).

 

This was Itempas' plan:  to be near Nahadoth.  Loneliness is his prime motivator.  Also, his goal was to manipulate Nahadoth into finally giving in to him, so they could be together again.  Making Nahadoth suffer was his long-term plan.  Getting one of the Enefadeh to betray the rest wasn't something he'd initially planned, but when he realized Kurue was ready to rebel, he decided to take advantage of it.  By removing Nahadoth's support system (i.e., the other Enefadeh), and killing his other lovers to make him despair, Itempas hoped to break Naha's spirit and encourage him to capitulate.

 

This was Dekarta's plan:  to find out whether Yeine killed Kinneth.  He could've just killed her on the strength of his suspicions -- but because he loved Kinneth, he wanted proof.  Yeine is very much like him, in this respect; they both wanted to know the truth of Kinneth's death.

 

Dekarta wouldn't have had any reason to summon Yeine to Sky if Kinneth hadn't died.  He had already decided to let Kinneth live her own life.  Itempas would have had no reason to kill Yeine if the Enefadeh hadn't put Enefa's soul into her -- and if Nahadoth hadn't loved her, which triggered the old jealousy. 

 

Kurue didn't have to wait 'til Yeine and the Stone were in the same room; she could've killed Yeine at any point after Yeine got to Sky.  But that would have a) made the other Enefadeh and the Arameri suspicious, and b) pissed off Itempas, who would've lost the chance to make Nahadoth despair a little more.  She needed to keep Itempas happy so he would set her free.  Basically she was playing Itempas against the other Enefadeh, using the Arameri (including Kinneth and Yeine) as her pawns.

 

I know this is convoluted, but does that clarify things at all?

 

Nora

Thanks for responding, It's late and I just got back home so please excuse any typos.

 

 

So, exactly why was Kinneth's killed then? I thought it was to set up the scenario whereby the soul of Enefa would be available to be destroyed by Itempas as it lingered near the body of Yeine? If that's so, are you saying that Kurue purposely killed Kinneth so she could set the whole thing up and somehow please Itempas thereby winning her freedom? If that is so, then I don't understand certain passages in the book on p. 373, which occurs after Itempas has emerged from Viraine as follows:

____________________

 

"Viraine,"...(Dekarta says), "You were ...part of him?"

 

Itempas lets him flounder to silence, then says, "Since your daughter left Sky."

 

Dekarta looks over at Kurue. "You knew this?"

 

She inclines her head, regal. "Not at first. But Viraine came to me one day and let me know that I need not be damned to this Earthly hell for all eternity. Our father could still forgive us, if we proved ourselves loyal." She glance over at Itempas, and even her dignity cannot hide her anxiety. She knows how fickle his favor can be. "Even then I wasn't certain though I suspected. that was when I decided on my plan."

 

(Dekarata responds.) "But...that means..." Dekarta pauses then, realization-anger-resignation flickering across his face in quick succession. I can guess his thoughts: Bright Itempas orchestrated Kinneth's death.    (Emphasis added.)

 

_______________

 

Note, Yeine's statement that Itempas orchestrated Kinneth's death is never refuted within the text and is supported by Dekarta's reactions.

 

If Itempas didn't know about the soul of Enefa being placed inside Yeine, then why did he orchestrate Kinneth's death? 

 

Also, why would Kurue hold back the part about Enefa's soul being placed inside Yeine? And, if Kurue didn't hold back that knowledge from Viraine/Itempas, then Itempas knew about Enefa's soul and chose to take the risk of bringing together Enefa's soul and the stone which held the last of Enefa's power. (In any case, Viraine/Itempas certainly knew about Enefa's soul when he stabbed Yeine to prevent her from holding the stone which means that he must have taken the risk of bringing together the stone and soul of Enefa.)  

 

Furthermore, regardless of whether it was Itempas or Kurue who orchestrated the whole tower room scenario, one of them apparently relied upon a far from certain response in Dekarta (of sending for Yeine and using her for the family sacrifice rather than killing her outright or continuing to ignore her); and, also took the risk of bringing the stone (which held the power of Enefa) in close proximity to the soul of Enefa hidden within the body of Yeine. 

 

Hmm, I can see how that would be confusing.  What I meant by "Bright Itempas orchestrated Kinneth's death" was that it was all done for him -- not necessarily intentionally, not necessarily directly, but done for the purposes of pleasing him.  He was the ultimate cause of Kinneth's murder, regardless of who did the actual murdering.  My fault for not being clear there, sorry.

 

 

Also, why would Kurue hold back the part about Enefa's soul being placed inside Yeine?

 

She didn't.  She told Itempas once she realized Itempas had put himself inside Viraine.  But the soul had been in Yeine for a few years at that point, because the Enefadeh had already begun their plan.  Once he knew about it, he began to plan a means of using this knowledge to manipulate Nahadoth.

 

Furthermore, regardless of whether it was Itempas or Kurue who orchestrated the whole tower room scenario, one of them apparently relied upon a far from certain response in Dekarta (of sending for Yeine and using her for the family sacrifice rather than killing her outright or continuing to ignore her);

 

It wasn't really far from certain.  The Arameri are a family steeped in tradition, though Yeine got only the briefest glimpse of this.  And Kurue in particular understood how Arameri thought, having seen nearly a hundred generations of Arameri come and go.  Given Dekarta's history, it wasn't really surprising that he would do unto his granddaughter as had been done unto him. 

 

and, also took the risk of bringing the stone (which held the power of Enefa) in close proximity to the soul of Enefa hidden within the body of Yeine.

 

What risk?  All they had to do was kill her (or so they thought) and command the Enefadeh to do nothing (which Viraine/Itempas did as soon as he stabbed Yeine), and the threat was neutralized.  Yeine was just a mortal; gods think of mortals as fragile, easy-to-kill creatures.  Being afraid of her was, in their eyes, akin to being afraid of a slow-moving cockroach.  And in this case, Itempas believed it was best to step on that cockroach in front of Nahadoth, in the very moment when he was most likely to feel hope and anticipation for his freedom, in order to break him.

 

Nora

Author
NKJemisin
Posts: 50
Registered: ‎02-18-2010

Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

Oh -- and as for why Kinneth was killed -- essentially, to spur Dekarta to act.  Again, he had no reason to bring Yeine to Sky otherwise.  Also because Kinneth was a threat, since she knew about Yeine's twin souls.  (This is the same reason Nahadoth killed anyone who saw what he did to Kinneth, on the night that he put the soul into the unborn Yeine -- easiest way to keep a secret.) The whole reason the Enefadeh put Enefa's soul in Yeine, and the only reason Kinneth agreed to allow it, was because then the soul -- and Yeine -- would then be safe from the Arameri.  She could reasonably expect that the Enefadeh would do everything in their power to keep Dekarta, and any of the other Arameri, from going after her or Yeine.  At any sign that the Enefadeh weren't keeping Yeine safe, Kinneth might have decided they weren't keeping their end of the bargain, and betrayed them to Dekarta. 

 

Kurue being a goddess of wisdom, she naturally opted for the most expedient solution, and solved two problems (getting Yeine to Sky, keeping the secret of Yeine's souls) by killing Kinneth.

 

Nora

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dalnewt
Posts: 2,725
Registered: ‎06-16-2009

Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

From your responses and the book I think a summary is in order. Please correct any misstatements.

 

1) The Enefadeh (including Nahadoth) somehow obtained a remnant of Enefa's soul and decided to place it in the body of someone with Arameri blood (because the Arameri had a trace of gods blood in their line). The decision was reached to somehow strengthen Enefa's soul and subsequently use it to free, (in some undisclosed way), to later free the Enefadeh. Kinneth agreed to this because the Enefadeh healed her husband and also because she wanted to strike back at her father/family.

 

2) Itempas appeared to Viraine because of Viraine's plea to deliver Kinneth back to Sky and into his arms. (Note, Viraine was somehow responsible for infecting Kinneth's husband with the Walking Sickness.) This occurred after Kinneth left Sky the second time (when her husband was dying from the Walking Sickness, and Dekarta refused to order the Enefadeh to heal him). Itempas tricked Viraine into allowing an incorporation between them, which basically killed Viraine instantly and allowed Itempas to hide behind the mortal mask of Viraine. Itempas did this to voyeuristically spy on Nahadoth and the Enefadeh and to manipulate Nahadoth (and Dekarta) from the shadows. At that time Itempas didn't know about Enefa's soul or the bargain with Enefadeh.   

 

3) Some time shortly after Itempas assumed the mortal disguise of Viraine, he approached Kurue to try to turn her against the other Enefadeh and, thereby. increase his knowledge of Enefadeh and his ability to manipulate/torture Nahadoth. Shortly thereafter, (probably w/in a few months of Itempas' merger into Viraine), Kurue decided to betray the Enefadeh in the hopes of securing her freedom from Itempas. She told Itempas/Viraine about the Enefedah's plan concerning the soul of Enefa and Kinneth's agreement to allow placement of that soul within the body of her offspring, Yeine.

 

4) Enefa's soul was placed in the body of Yeine at the time of her birth. All witnesses to the birth, (other than Kinneth herself and her bedridden husband), were killed by Nahadoth.

 

5)  As the time to pass on leadership of the Arameri family approached, Kurue put her plan into action and killed Kinneth knowing that Kinneth's death would prompt Dekarta to send for Yeine to act as the family sacrifice. She knew the Arameri and knew that a close family member would probably be chosen by Dekarta for the family sacrifice especially when he suspected Yeine of killing Kinneth. Yurue also planned for Itempas (disguised as Viraine) to kill Yeine to prevent physical contact between the stone and a soul of Enefa contained within a living Yeine. Kurue also planned for Itempas to emerge from Viraine (after killing Yeine) and planned for Itempas' destruction of the remnant soul of Enefa as it lingered near the body of Yeine.

 

6) Kurue informed Itempas/Viraine of her entire plan, and Itempas (disguised as Viraine) consented to all facets of that plan from the death of Kinneth to his killing of Yeine and his destruction of the Enefa's remnant soul. Itempas cared nothing about mortals, he only wanted to quash the last hope of the Enefadeh/Nahadoth and, in that way, crush Nahadoth's spirit and obtain his complete capitulation. (In effect, Nahadoth was a co-conspirator in Kinneth's death although he didn't kill Kinneth personally or come up with the plan.)   

 

7) Itempas/Viraine stabbed Yeine to prevent her from holding the stone and, for those moments in which she held the stone, merging the soul of Enefa with the last of Enefa's power and unshackling the Enefadeh/Nahadoth from their fleshy prisons and Itempas' power.

 

8) After death the soul/consciousness of Yeine lingered with the soul of Enefadeh. Because the soul of Yeine was stronger than that of Enefa and/or because the soul of Yeine belonged to the body of Yeine, Enefa's soul had to depart (as Yeine's resurrected body could not hold two souls.) Yeine was resurrected as a god by the stone which contained a seed of Enefa's power. 

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Nadine
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

Sorry, I really can't respond right now and I have a lot to say. I could not sign on at all this afternoon with my Firefox. I finally switched to my Explorer and did get on but the system and the page loads are incredibly and intolerably long. I'm also afraid it may dump my words of wisdom instead of posting them. I'll be back when things get a bit better.

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pen21
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

Nelsmom,

Just jump in when you are ready.

I am still working on what all happened at the end.

And that section alone has a lot of posts to go through.

Looking forward to hearing what you think.

pen21

 

 

Nelsmom wrote:

I haven't been reading the posts because I didn't want the book spoiled for me. I just got it from the library and will post my feelings when I am more into the book.  I know I'm late to the party but others got the book before me and I had to wait my turn.

 

Toni

 

 

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Nadine
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

Oh, my goodness, you folks have been busy since I was having trouble logging on.

 

Well, we seem to have some records here. This particular book thread now has the most posts of any other book thread on this board. The last record was Canticle which had 383 posts (I think). This thread just crossed the line with 385 and still growing. Also, Nora is the most laureled author on this board (they seem to have a new feature with laurels per board). She has passed Brandon Sanderson.

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Nelsmom
Posts: 2,628
Registered: ‎10-19-2006

Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

I just finished the book.  I had to read it in a hurry because I could only have it for a week.  I really enjoyed the book.  I know that I am going to have to reread it when it is not such a hot book.  I especially liked how Yeine learned about herself and her dual nature.  Also at the end she was able to still be herself even as a new goddess.  I am really interested to read the Broken Kingdom and see life as the less privilaged see the world and Gods.  Nora thank you for writing such an interesting book.

 

Toni

Toni L. Chapman
Everyone needs some Tender Loving Care
Author
NKJemisin
Posts: 50
Registered: ‎02-18-2010

Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

 

dalnewt wrote:

From your responses and the book I think a summary is in order. Please correct any misstatements.

 

1) The Enefadeh (including Nahadoth) somehow obtained a remnant of Enefa's soul and decided to place it in the body of someone with Arameri blood (because the Arameri had a trace of gods blood in their line). The decision was reached to somehow strengthen Enefa's soul and subsequently use it to free, (in some undisclosed way), to later free the Enefadeh. Kinneth agreed to this because the Enefadeh healed her husband and also because she wanted to strike back at her father/family.

 

2) Itempas appeared to Viraine because of Viraine's plea to deliver Kinneth back to Sky and into his arms. (Note, Viraine was somehow responsible for infecting Kinneth's husband with the Walking Sickness.) This occurred after Kinneth left Sky the second time (when her husband was dying from the Walking Sickness, and Dekarta refused to order the Enefadeh to heal him). Itempas tricked Viraine into allowing an incorporation between them, which basically killed Viraine instantly and allowed Itempas to hide behind the mortal mask of Viraine. Itempas did this to voyeuristically spy on Nahadoth and the Enefadeh and to manipulate Nahadoth (and Dekarta) from the shadows. At that time Itempas didn't know about Enefa's soul or the bargain with Enefadeh.   

 

3) Some time shortly after Itempas assumed the mortal disguise of Viraine, he approached Kurue to try to turn her against the other Enefadeh and, thereby. increase his knowledge of Enefadeh and his ability to manipulate/torture Nahadoth. Shortly thereafter, (probably w/in a few months of Itempas' merger into Viraine), Kurue decided to betray the Enefadeh in the hopes of securing her freedom from Itempas. She told Itempas/Viraine about the Enefedah's plan concerning the soul of Enefa and Kinneth's agreement to allow placement of that soul within the body of her offspring, Yeine.

 

4) Enefa's soul was placed in the body of Yeine at the time of her birth. All witnesses to the birth, (other than Kinneth herself and her bedridden husband), were killed by Nahadoth.

 

5)  As the time to pass on leadership of the Arameri family approached, Kurue put her plan into action and killed Kinneth knowing that Kinneth's death would prompt Dekarta to send for Yeine to act as the family sacrifice. She knew the Arameri and knew that a close family member would probably be chosen by Dekarta for the family sacrifice especially when he suspected Yeine of killing Kinneth. Yurue also planned for Itempas (disguised as Viraine) to kill Yeine to prevent physical contact between the stone and a soul of Enefa contained within a living Yeine. Kurue also planned for Itempas to emerge from Viraine (after killing Yeine) and planned for Itempas' destruction of the remnant soul of Enefa as it lingered near the body of Yeine.

 

6) Kurue informed Itempas/Viraine of her entire plan, and Itempas (disguised as Viraine) consented to all facets of that plan from the death of Kinneth to his killing of Yeine and his destruction of the Enefa's remnant soul. Itempas cared nothing about mortals, he only wanted to quash the last hope of the Enefadeh/Nahadoth and, in that way, crush Nahadoth's spirit and obtain his complete capitulation. (In effect, Nahadoth was a co-conspirator in Kinneth's death although he didn't kill Kinneth personally or come up with the plan.)   

 

7) Itempas/Viraine stabbed Yeine to prevent her from holding the stone and, for those moments in which she held the stone, merging the soul of Enefa with the last of Enefa's power and unshackling the Enefadeh/Nahadoth from their fleshy prisons and Itempas' power.

 

8) After death the soul/consciousness of Yeine lingered with the soul of Enefadeh. Because the soul of Yeine was stronger than that of Enefa and/or because the soul of Yeine belonged to the body of Yeine, Enefa's soul had to depart (as Yeine's resurrected body could not hold two souls.) Yeine was resurrected as a god by the stone which contained a seed of Enefa's power. 

This is convenient.  :smileyhappy:  I'm stuck at the airport in Orlando for 7 hours, so this will take my mind off ARGH, TRAVEL HELL.  Taking things inline:

 

1)  Almost right.  By this point in time nearly all mortals have a (very small) trace of gods' blood; the Arameri aren't special in this way.  They picked Kinneth because Dekarta loved Kinneth.  For as long as Dekarta lived -- they believed -- she was the only "safe" Arameri in the whole world.  Also, the soul didn't need to be strengthened, it needed to be healed -- as it was when the Enefadeh found it, it wasn't usable for their purposes (specifically, it could not have kept a body alive on its own, which is why they put it into a body that already had its own soul -- this was implied but never stated outright in the book, though).  But otherwise what you've said here is correct.

 

2) Again, almost right.  Viraine prayed for Itempas to make Kinneth love him.  That was impossible; the gods cannot affect human emotions or free will.  If Viraine had asked for Kinneth to be delivered back to Sky, Itempas could've done that; that's a simple matter of transporting her from one place to another.  Also, Viraine did indeed allow Itempas to "inhabit" his body for several years, but this didn't kill Viraine until the moment when Itempas manifested fully during the Ritual of the Succession.  Before that, Viraine was himself at times and Itempas at times -- much like Nahadoth/Naha and Enefa/Yeine.

 

3) Almost.  Kurue was already disaffected with Nahadoth in particular, and all the Enefadeh in general.  Their relationship was always a bit tense because she knew the only thing keeping them enslaved was Nahadoth's refusal to capitulate to Itempas; she thought Nahadoth should've given in.  (It would have been the "wise" thing to do.)  She also thought their plan was foolish, but better than nothing.  So when Itempas realized she was "turnable", then he let her know he was present within Viraine, and she then opted for a more certain plan, though it required her to betray her companions.

 

4) This is correct.

 

5) Partly right.  Kurue set in motion the plan to bring Yeine to Sky, by killing Kinneth.  She made this murder look as though it was done by an Arameri assassin, thinking that might spur Yeine to come to Sky on her own; and she also probably dropped hints to Dekarta that Yeine might've done the deed.  Either way, given that Dekarta himself gained the throne by killing a close family member (his wife), and that this was a longtime tradition in the family, Kurue guessed -- rightly -- that Dekarta would decide to bring Yeine to Sky.  Beyond that, killing Yeine during the Succession, and emerging from Viraine at that time (killing Viraine in the process) was Itempas's decision.

 

6) Sort of, again.  Itempas didn't care how Kurue got Enefa's soul to Sky.  As long as it got there, and Nahadoth was made to feel great hope before Itempas crushed it, Itempas was satisfied.  This probably caused a conflict between him and Viraine, however, because Viraine loved Kinneth and would never have consented to killing her.  He had no choice, however; Itempas controlled him by this point, and overruled him.  (Incidentally, this was why Viraine was weeping, during that scene late in the book; Yeine correctly guessed that he was mourning Kinneth.)  Also, I wouldn't say that Nahadoth (or did you mean Itempas, there?) was a co-conspirator in Kinneth's death.  Nahadoth was certainly responsible for it, unintentionally, since involving mortals in the machinations of gods usually results in some mortals dying horribly.  But the Arameri, more than most mortals, knew what they were dealing with; Kinneth knew full well her deal with Nahadoth might come back to bite her on the butt.  (She even had second thoughts afterward, and tried to kill Yeine during labor.)

 

7 & 8 combo) Well, no.  Itempas stabbed Yeine because he wanted to hurt Nahadoth.  He'd figured out by this point that Nahadoth was beginning to love her, or conflating his love for Enefa with her -- same difference, in Itempas' eyes.  Eliminating the danger (of the Enefadeh using the Stone of Earth to free themselves) was just a bonus.

 

Itempas had no idea Yeine and Enefa's souls would remain "active" during the moment between Yeine's death and resurrection.  As Sieh explained (in the wind harp chamber), gods' souls are like mortals' -- when either die, their souls usually drift around a bit, helpless, and then travel elsewhere (the heavens and the hells).  Itempas knew this, so he assumed that killing Yeine would instantly eliminate the danger.  Souls are useless unless they're embodied in some way.  (This was never stated in the book, but in order to use the soul once it was healed, the Enefadeh would have had to insert it into someone -- possibly one of their own bodies, though this would've killed that individual.) 

 

But in this case the gods -- Itempas and the Enefadeh alike -- all got dinged by their lack of knowledge.  First off, godlings have died before, but never gods.  And never a god whose specific magical gift was control over life and death.  Everything the Enefadeh expected to happen, didn't -- after the Gods' War they thought Enefa's soul would travel to a heaven or hell, but it didn't (it just kept drifting around); once they put it into Yeine they though Enefa's soul would grow stronger and sort of "eat" Yeine's, but that didn't happen; they thought that after twenty years in a safe place (Yeine's body) Enefa's soul would then be able to inhabit a body on its own, but it couldn't. This was a warning sign that there was something fundamentally different about Enefa's soul, compared to all the souls (mortal and godling) they'd seen before.  But none of them really understood what it meant.

 

Basically, Enefa was still alive -- even without a body, though partly thanks to the support of Yeine's soul.  Because of this, and because the Stone effectively rendered Yeine "alive" without a body too, something happened that nobody expected -- in the same moment there were two living entities that had the same "right" to claim the Stone.  All the dialogue bits in which Yeine is talking to herself, or to Enefa, occur during this very brief instant; Yeine was forcing herself to remember the whole sequence of events in a desperate bid to remain "alive" (that is, to retain her personality and memories, rather than becoming a blank slate like most disembodied souls).  But because Yeine's and Enefa's souls were so hopelessly entangled, they had to merge.  One personality would take over both souls, which would stitch them together into one.  For awhile Enefa tried to do this, but Yeine's stubbornness prevented it.  So Enefa decided to give up and let Yeine become the guiding personality of the complete soul.  In essence the Succession Ceremony did occur -- just not in a way anyone was expecting.

 

Hope that's clear!

 

Nora

 

Author
NKJemisin
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Registered: ‎02-18-2010
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

 

Nadine wrote:

Oh, my goodness, you folks have been busy since I was having trouble logging on.

 

Well, we seem to have some records here. This particular book thread now has the most posts of any other book thread on this board. The last record was Canticle which had 383 posts (I think). This thread just crossed the line with 385 and still growing. Also, Nora is the most laureled author on this board (they seem to have a new feature with laurels per board). She has passed Brandon Sanderson.

 

 

Woo hoo!  But, er, what do laurels mean?  :smileyhappy:

 

Nora

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TiggerBear
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

 

NKJemisin wrote:

 

 

Woo hoo!  But, er, what do laurels mean?  :smileyhappy:

 

Nora

 

 

Us giving you or anyone; a hands up, yah hoo!, funny, cool, I like that, like, love, thumbs up, thank you, props, approval, ect...

 

 

 

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Nadine
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

Laurals are kind of gold stars. We are not that sure of their value but they have something to do with our ranks, which we know even less about. The whole system has actually created a comic board called "The Kindom of Wordsmithonia" That began when b&n started issuing titles to us that seemed to desgnate some sort of status. At that time the top rankers were called Wordsmiths. And then two people, Kathy and Ryan, got the designation of Scribe so they became the Dowanger Queen and King of Wordsmithonia. These laurels are still baffling us as per a recent discussion in the Community Room.

 

Some of us can only give out one laurel and others two or three laurels depending on their rank. We generally give out laurels if we think your post is good, but sometimes we use them if we just agree with you. So it is an honor. You do have an exceptional number of laurels considering you've only been around a month. But your explainations have been exceptionally good with a great deal of detail.

 

 

NKJemisin wrote:

 

Nadine wrote:

Oh, my goodness, you folks have been busy since I was having trouble logging on.

 

Well, we seem to have some records here. This particular book thread now has the most posts of any other book thread on this board. The last record was Canticle which had 383 posts (I think). This thread just crossed the line with 385 and still growing. Also, Nora is the most laureled author on this board (they seem to have a new feature with laurels per board). She has passed Brandon Sanderson.

 

 

Woo hoo!  But, er, what do laurels mean?  :smileyhappy:

 

Nora

 

 

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pen21
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Registered: ‎03-23-2009

Re: The Broken Kingdom

This part of your post made me curious as to how Scimina killed Relad.

I also remember reading that the sigil kept the family from killing each other.

During the ceremony was this allowed?

Luanne

 

Melhay wrote:

Now I have a question.  Will the new heir have any power?  There is nothing there to control.  The sigil had other relatively helpful things, as it kept the family from killing each other.  Remember Scimina spoke of this when she was torturing Sieh, that Yeine could not kill her with her knife.  Now the sigil was given by Itempas, so maybe it has no power anymore.  Just curious...

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pen21
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

While I was reading that section I felt that it was both Yeine and Enefa combining. That now they were more closely tied. It will be interesting to see in the next books which if either character Yeine or Enefa will dominate or if it will be more shared.

Luanne

 

 

Melhay wrote:

It seemed to me in the end of the book that Yeine was having a hard time remembering herself and who people where to her.  Like when she rubbed Siehs hair, she didn't know why she did that or even wanted to do it.  She almost seemed to lose the Yeine in her as she changed to the Goddess. 

 

Or was this Enefa that wanted felt these connections and Yeine, now only one soul - her own, vaguely remembering these patterens and going with them?

 

 

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pen21
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Re: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms: Through End of book!

Throughout the book I liked how the gods were manipulating Kinnith and Yeine to each achieve a goal. I liked that the god siblings fought amongst themselves like real siblings, in fact the gods acted like a family with many differences. That the gods to take control used Yeine and saying about Yeine, "We've invested far too much in creating you" surprised me that they would depend so much on a human. In the end the gods didn't have as much control over things as they had thought, be it Itempas, Nahadoth, Kurue, etc.

I hope that in the next books that we find out something about how Darr ended up after the end of this book. Interested in seeing if Yeine will have a connection still to Darr.

Luanne

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Nadine
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

I think Nora said Enefa was gone and Yeine was a new entity, but I will have to dig back in the posts to find that.

 

 

pen21 wrote:

While I was reading that section I felt that it was both Yeine and Enefa combining. That now they were more closely tied. It will be interesting to see in the next books which if either character Yeine or Enefa will dominate or if it will be more shared.

Luanne

 

 

Melhay wrote:

It seemed to me in the end of the book that Yeine was having a hard time remembering herself and who people where to her.  Like when she rubbed Siehs hair, she didn't know why she did that or even wanted to do it.  She almost seemed to lose the Yeine in her as she changed to the Goddess. 

 

Or was this Enefa that wanted felt these connections and Yeine, now only one soul - her own, vaguely remembering these patterens and going with them?

 

 

 

 

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Nadine
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

[ Edited ]

Nora wrote: No, sorry, I got confused in the post chain. Nevermind!

 

dalnewt wrote:

 

 

 

2) Again, almost right.  Viraine prayed for Itempas to make Kinneth love him.  That was impossible; the gods cannot affect human emotions or free will.  If Viraine had asked for Kinneth to be delivered back to Sky, Itempas could've done that; that's a simple matter of transporting her from one place to another.  Also, Viraine did indeed allow Itempas to "inhabit" his body for several years, but this didn't kill Viraine until the moment when Itempas manifested fully during the Ritual of the Succession.  Before that, Viraine was himself at times and Itempas at times -- much like Nahadoth/Naha and Enefa/Yeine.

---------------------------------------------------

 

Now this caught my eye.  I assumed Naha was kind of a nickname. Did these two names represent his dual personality. And what about Zhakkarn/Zhakka?

 

 

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Nadine
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

I think I did misunderstand things. This is Nora's statement:

 

Basically, Enefa was still alive -- even without a body, though partly thanks to the support of Yeine's soul.  Because of this, and because the Stone effectively rendered Yeine "alive" without a body too, something happened that nobody expected -- in the same moment there were two living entities that had the same "right" to claim the Stone.  All the dialogue bits in which Yeine is talking to herself, or to Enefa, occur during this very brief instant; Yeine was forcing herself to remember the whole sequence of events in a desperate bid to remain "alive" (that is, to retain her personality and memories, rather than becoming a blank slate like most disembodied souls).  But because Yeine's and Enefa's souls were so hopelessly entangled, they had to merge.  One personality would take over both souls, which would stitch them together into one.  For awhile Enefa tried to do this, but Yeine's stubbornness prevented it.  So Enefa decided to give up and let Yeine become the guiding personality of the complete soul.  In essence the Succession Ceremony did occur -- just not in a way anyone was expecting.

================

 

Nadine wrote:

I think Nora said Enefa was gone and Yeine was a new entity, but I will have to dig back in the posts to find that.

 

 

pen21 wrote:

While I was reading that section I felt that it was both Yeine and Enefa combining. That now they were more closely tied. It will be interesting to see in the next books which if either character Yeine or Enefa will dominate or if it will be more shared.

Luanne

 

 

Melhay wrote:

It seemed to me in the end of the book that Yeine was having a hard time remembering herself and who people where to her.  Like when she rubbed Siehs hair, she didn't know why she did that or even wanted to do it.  She almost seemed to lose the Yeine in her as she changed to the Goddess. 

 

Or was this Enefa that wanted felt these connections and Yeine, now only one soul - her own, vaguely remembering these patterens and going with them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Nadine
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Re: MARCH FEATURE #1: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin

Hi, Toni.  Great to see you final got the book. Well, you are just ontime to speculate on what the next book will be about.

 

 

Nelsmom wrote:

I just finished the book.  I had to read it in a hurry because I could only have it for a week.  I really enjoyed the book.  I know that I am going to have to reread it when it is not such a hot book.  I especially liked how Yeine learned about herself and her dual nature.  Also at the end she was able to still be herself even as a new goddess.  I am really interested to read the Broken Kingdom and see life as the less privilaged see the world and Gods.  Nora thank you for writing such an interesting book.

 

Toni

 

 

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pen21
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Re: The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms: Through End of book!

[ Edited ]

Nora,

After reading our posts with our thoughts and predictions, what are the biggest surprises?

What prediction or assumption made you laugh out loud, spit out your coffee?

What post had a key element of the story identified earlier than you thought we would?

Just off the top of your head. No need to read through all the posts.

Thanks Luanne

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NKJemisin
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Re: The Broken Kingdom

 

pen21 wrote:

This part of your post made me curious as to how Scimina killed Relad.

I also remember reading that the sigil kept the family from killing each other.

During the ceremony was this allowed?

Luanne

 

Melhay wrote:

Now I have a question.  Will the new heir have any power?  There is nothing there to control.  The sigil had other relatively helpful things, as it kept the family from killing each other.  Remember Scimina spoke of this when she was torturing Sieh, that Yeine could not kill her with her knife.  Now the sigil was given by Itempas, so maybe it has no power anymore.  Just curious...

 

 

Argh!  Tried to respond to this twice yesterday, and the "reply" buttons wouldn't work.

 

Going to double-answer here, for Pen21 and Melhay.  First off, yes, the sigils were deactivated for the duration of the ceremony.  Since the ceremony normally ends with the ritual murder of one of the heirs (often when the winning heir orders Nahadoth to kill the loser), the sigil protections are eliminated.  This was what Viraine was doing when he caused each Arameri's sigil to flare white.  (He also put a restriction on Nahadoth when he made a white symbol appear on his head, because without the sigils Nahadoth would ordinarily have been free to kill everyone in the room.)

 

As for the new heir having power -- yes.  Plenty.  As Yeine points out, the Arameri still have insane amounts of wealth, political power, an army (though not much of one, since they've rarely needed it before now), and both the magical power (scriveners) and "propaganda power" of the Order of Itempas.  However, they're no longer invulnerable, which will play a role in coming books.

 

Nora