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Nadine
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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension


Melhay wrote:

 

I also felt horrible for Sazed about Tindwyl, they finally face their feelings and then that happens.  Aweful...


 

A lot of characters we have come to know have died in these two books, but Tindwyl was the only one that I really felt loss and grief at her death. I liked this character right off from the start. She was a strong and unique female figure to start with. Oddly, Brandon didn't have any other significant female characters beyond Vin until he introduced Tindwyl.  But I think what touched me the most was the relationship that developed between her and Sazed, whom I liked very much. I think the grief I felt was more his loss. It was the only time he had really had some sort of relationship with anyone beyond duty.

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension

[ Edited ]

carmen22 wrote:

  I have to go now Melhay but maybe tomorrow, I think, we should all talk about the actual war it's an interesting, crazy and exciting part! So much happened!

 

 ***Spoiler****

 

I forgot to add in the post above that I felt so bad for Sazed when Tindwyl died. This part is part of the War though, so we can come back to it later.

Message Edited by carmen22 on 05-12-2009 11:23 PM

I thought I would post what Brandon had to say about his perspective on the battle. I think it is unique and significant:

-----------------------------

 

Chapt 52 Annotations:


The Battle Begins

You'll notice something about these next chapters. Instead of focusing on the trained warriors during the siege of Luthadel, I spend my time inside the heads of Breeze and Sazed--the two least experienced with war and killing in the entire crew.

This is intentional. I want to give the sense that Luthadel is a place unprepared for war. Even its soldiers aren't really fighters. There hasn't been much war in the Final Empire, and those veterans who do exist are in Cett or Straff's employ. I would rather show the battle against the koloss, then, through the eyes of men who will be horrified and confused at what to do, as I think that will be the norm for this conflict.

It heightens the tension, and the tragedy, of this all when you get to see Breeze and Sazed trying to cope with the horrors of a battlefield. Plus, the opposite has been done quite well a lot--whether it be in a David Gemmel book or in Lord of the Rings. You've seen brave warriors defend a city. Now watch a politician and a scholar try to do it.
 

Message Edited by Nadine on 05-13-2009 05:05 PM
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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension


Melhay wrote:

carmen22 wrote:

  To be honest, I don't even know where to begin with this book it had so much good stuff through out! Here's just a few things that are on my mind!

 

---------------------

 

The Kandra-- I loved  Oreseur/Tensoon and Vins relationship, it started out rough but then transformed into something more deep. I loved the idea of Sanderson turning him into a dog, I found him to be a more likeable character this way. 

------------------

 

Message Edited by carmen22 on 05-10-2009 11:20 PM


I to fell in love with OreSeur/TenSoon and Vins relationship.  She really made a connection with him.  The dog idea was great on many levels. 

 

They seemed to understand each other well.

 

I wonder since Vin had a contract with OreSeur and it may still be open then maybe TenSoon will be assigned to her to fulfill that contract (assignment) in the next book.  Do you think possible or this is the last we have seen of TenSoon?


It is easy to forget that they actually started out not liking each other much. OreSeur was only fulfilling his contract and hated and was insulted byt having been giving a dog's body. Vin didn't like him much because he had eaten Kelsier's body and knew about his planned sacrifice.

 

But I think it was the growing relationship between them, the growing trust, and OreSeur/TenSoon's final sacrifice to break his contract that endeared him to us. Also the fact that he was a dog. We tend to like dogs as "man's (or Mistborn's) best friend."

 

SPOILER

 

Interestingly, (and we don't know it until later) this was not the same Kandra that ate Kelsier. It is TeSoon.

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Zane

[ Edited ]

Mell wrote:

On Zane - I am wondering if he is really dead.  Now think back on the Inquisitors, the only way to kill one was to break the connection of the spikes - rip the one out of the back.  Vin did not do this to Zane.  Could be still be alive?  There was not talk of him after she "killed" him in the bedroom, no mention of clean up or that he wasn't there.  I wonder if it is possible we have not seen the last of Zane.  Then I wonder how or why he has that spike.

 

Is the voice Vin hears in the Well the same as the voice of "god" Zane hears?  I think it could very well be.  "God" didn't want Vin dead because he knew he could get her to release him.

================================

 

I really liked Zane and I thought both Vin and Zane had a lot in common beyond being two super Mistborns. I think they both missed a loveless childhood, rejected by their parents. I consider Zane an important topic, expecially as a replacement  of Kelsier and also as a combination of Kelsier and Elend.  I also wondered is he was really dead and might show up in the next book.

 

Toward the end, I really felt sorry for him because in the end he really did love his father and was actually looking to Vin to save him. He also had protected Vin. I'm sure he could have killed her several times. But he was a very conflicted person and was being pulled many ways by his love of his father and loyalty to him, his love of Vin, his jealousy of Elend, the demands of his "god", and his own loneliness. He was a very complex character and I too wonder if Brandon is going to use him more in the next book. He may even do something noble.

 

Let me go through and collect some of Brandon's comments about him.

Message Edited by Nadine on 05-13-2009 05:32 PM
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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Zane

From Brandon's Annotations:

 

Chapt 17

If you didn't see the Zane/Kelsier comparison later, I bring it up here. In a way, Zane's purpose in this book is to represent things that Vin never really had an opportunity to choose.

She ended up with Elend. However, there is another option, and that was the option that Kelsier represented. The option that Zane represents. Despite her assurances to Elend that she didn't love Kelsier, there WAS something there. Kelsier had a magnetism about him, and since he died, Vin didn't ever have to choose between him and Elend.

Chapt 18

As I said before, the Zane chapters originally started earlier in the book. I pushed them back in order to keep the mystery a little longer and to streamline the beginning.

Now I can finally get into his story. Zane is important for several reasons, many of which I can't really explain without spoiling not only this book, but the next one. One of his most basic functions is to provide a foil for Elend. An opposite. Elend is safety, and Zane is danger. They share many similar features, but in Zane, most of those features are twisted.

He also represents a throwback to Kelsier. He is more like the Survivor than he'll probably ever understand.

Making him insane like this was a gamble on my part. I worry that, at first, it seems cliche. There's a whole lot more going on with Zane than you might assume, but your introduction to him is that of a schizophrenic villain who likes to cut himself. This might just seem like a grab-bag of psychosis, but I ask you to stick with me on this one. Zane has been many of my alpha-readers favorite character.

----------------

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Zane

Brandon's Annotations. Some of this I did miss!

 

Chapt 39

Zane's Plan

For those of you trying to figure it out, this is Zane's plan: First, he got a group of untraceable Allomancers from his father. Then, he got a couple of them onto Cett's staff as serving men to work the kitchens. Vin saw these men, and associated them with Cett.

Then, Zane had them attack her in a public place, where he was counting on her to completely slaughter them. This gave Zane two potential gains. First off, people are always shocked when they see brutality--even when that brutality comes while protecting them. Zane expected Vin's effectiveness to work against her with the Assemblymen and with Elend, making them scared of her.

Secondly, he now knows that Vin--hopefully--will connect the assassins to Cett, not Straff. She saw one of them on Cett's staff. Zane can divert blame for the attack onto Cett, thereby helping his father secure the city. A win-win situation, execpt for the six half-brothers Zane just let get killed.

Chapt 46


Zane Awakes When Assassins Try to Kill him, then he Bids his father Farewell

The Zane scene is half old, half new. I love that his first reaction to nearly being killed by Straff's soldiers is to think that his father trusts Zane more than he expected. Who else but Zane would see getting attacked as a sign of trust?

Leaving Straff alive was a controversial move for Zane in many readers' minds. Not in mine. He never wanted to kill Straff, even though God tells him to. He really does love his father. If you couldn't sense that in the undercurrent of the story, I'm sorry--but it's the actual truth. Zane loves Straff just like Vin loved Reen, even though Reen beat her.

The scene with the spike in Zane's chest is new. I decided I needed to show this in the book, rather than talk about it in book three. The implications of it will take me another five hundred pages of text to explain. So just remember that you saw it.
-

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Zane

[ Edited ]

Brandon's Annotation

 

Chapt 47

Vin And Zane Fight

The mists enter the room here, which is--again--intentional. A lot of these things have to do with the deeper worldbuidling we won't get into until book three. However, suffice it to say that they were forced to enter by something.

Zane's "You were supposed to save me" is something that I really don't expect to make sense. Despite what God says at the end, Zane is a little bit insane. He's gone too long listening to the voice, thinking himself mad, and doing things like slaughtering his way to the top of Cett's keep. He's not stable anymore.

The fact that God doesn't tell him to kill Vin is what drew Zane to her in the first place. [Nadine: I think this is a big hint that it is important that Vin reaches the Well.]

 

He figured it must mean something--that somehow, if they were together, he'd be able to drive the voices from his mind. For that, he risked everything--that, and the ability to have someone else to be with. He could leave Straff only if he had someone else to rely upon. Someone to save him.

When Vin turned against him--as he saw it--then he had to go back to what Straff wanted. He'd promised his father that he'd deal with Vin. And so he had to. If she wouldn't come with him, he had to kill her.


God Says Farewell to Zane

I wanted to jump into Zane's viewpoint so that we could see the voice depart from its usual way of speaking. Just a little hint for later in the series. Yes, there is a LOT more going on here than it seems at first glance

------------------

Message Edited by Nadine on 05-13-2009 05:52 PM
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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Zane


Nadine wrote:

Mell wrote:

On Zane - I am wondering if he is really dead.  Now think back on the Inquisitors, the only way to kill one was to break the connection of the spikes - rip the one out of the back.  Vin did not do this to Zane.  Could be still be alive?  There was not talk of him after she "killed" him in the bedroom, no mention of clean up or that he wasn't there.  I wonder if it is possible we have not seen the last of Zane.  Then I wonder how or why he has that spike.

 

Is the voice Vin hears in the Well the same as the voice of "god" Zane hears?  I think it could very well be.  "God" didn't want Vin dead because he knew he could get her to release him.

================================

 

I really liked Zane and I thought both Vin and Zane had a lot in common beyond being two super Mistborns. I think they both missed a loveless childhood, rejected by their parents. I consider Zane an important topic, expecially as a replacement  of Kelsier and also as a combination of Kelsier and Elend.  I also wondered is he was really dead and might show up in the next book.

 

Toward the end, I really felt sorry for him because in the end he really did love his father and was actually looking to Vin to save him. He also had protected Vin. I'm sure he could have killed her several times. But he was a very conflicted person and was being pulled many ways by his love of his father and loyalty to him, his love of Vin, his jealousy of Elend, the demands of his "god", and his own loneliness. He was a very complex character and I too wonder if Brandon is going to use him more in the next book. He may even do something noble.

 

Let me go through and collect some of Brandon's comments about him.

Message Edited by Nadine on 05-13-2009 05:32 PM

 

I wondered at a few points if Zane would change his tune.  At times when he saw Elend he thought of how he hated Elend but then realized that he would have been just like him and that it wasn't Elends fault Zane was not accepted by his father.  It was his fathers fault and he recognized it, which to me is a big step in the right direction.  But then he would do something that implied he was still playing at Vin to help himself.

 

I still have faith in Zane thought , if he can get ride of the "God" in his head.

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension

This really isn't on the war per say, but I was wondering how the members of the crew were able at the beginning of the book to be out and about other citys near and far?  I know the other armys were not there at the city yet and when they showed up it was difficult to get in or out.  But the past House Leaders did not want Elend to succeed and would have really been watching their cities and places.  Even with the spies in Luthadel they would have some discriptions of the people in the crew and that were close to Elend to keep an eye out for them and stop them if they came around.  Or at least a bounty on their heads to help put an end to Elends control through his comrades.
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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension

***SPOILER***

 

I was really wondering where Sanderson was going with Cett and Allrianne.  I kept trying to figure what they were here for, particually Allrianne.  I couldn't tell if she was on Luthadels or Cetts side. 

 

Well, I guess Breeze is stuck with her for a while.  She really does love him, huh?  Is Breeze that distracted that he does not realize Allrianne was pulling on his emotions?

 

I had she was a little fisty thing, but I wasn't sure if it was for good or bad for Elend.  All in all I think she was a good thing, and still very stubborn and fisty.  She could be a good addition for the team and a good strong female figure.  (More femine than Vin with the dresses and makeup, but it may rub off a little on Vin in a good way.)

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Mists

Mists

I'm having a great time going through these Annotations. It is almost as good as having the author right there with us. In fact, I'm almost tempted to make up questions to go with the answers to give them more of a "give and take" flavor.  :smileywink:

The Mists (and Mist Person(s) ) are still a mystery to me. They do behave very strangely and almost seem to have a mind of their own. I think they deserve their own discussion sub-thread.

-------------------------------------

From Brandon's Annotations:

Chapter 13

My goal with Vin, here, is to take the mists from her. Kelsier gave them to her in book one, and now it's time to take them away.

They are the haven of the Mistborn. But, if you watch as the story progresses, you will see that I slowly take them away and leave her without.

Chapt 15

This is, perhaps, the most overtly foreshadowing chapter in this book. I'm trying to tie quite a large number of threads together in this series, and it was a challenge to keep them all in the air at the same time.

The events in this chapter, then, will wrap back around to things that happen near the end of this book and in the next book. Mostly, I'm showing the real danger of the mists--that there IS indeed a reason to fear them. Either way, remember one thing from this chapter. Some people were killed (and there's a connection between the two people you've heard described specifically as dying from the mists) some people got away, and some people had seizures, but then were all right later

---------------------------------
Darn, now I'm going to have to go back and reread Chapter 15! I didn't note who was dying and who wasn't. Does anyone remember?
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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension

***SPOILERS***

 

When Sazed and the crew decided to send Vin and Elend and Spook away part of me know Vin would go since she wanted to go to Terris anyway.  But I really thought she would see it as the friend issue.  When Kelsier got mad at her in the first book when he saved the friends in the barred wagons and then died, he told her she had a lot to learn about friendship when she tried to stop him. 

 

I really thought she would think back on this and not leave. 

 

Which ended up being part of the reason she came back.

 

I do understand why they did it but it was still strange to accept that her friends were sending her away.

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Mists


Nadine wrote:
Mists

I'm having a great time going through these Annotations. It is almost as good as having the author right there with us. In fact, I'm almost tempted to make up questions to go with the answers to give them more of a "give and take" flavor.  :smileywink:

The Mists (and Mist Person(s) ) are still a mystery to me. They do behave very strangely and almost seem to have a mind of their own. I think they deserve their own discussion sub-thread.

-------------------------------------

From Brandon's Annotations:

Chapter 13

My goal with Vin, here, is to take the mists from her. Kelsier gave them to her in book one, and now it's time to take them away.

They are the haven of the Mistborn. But, if you watch as the story progresses, you will see that I slowly take them away and leave her without.

Chapt 15

This is, perhaps, the most overtly foreshadowing chapter in this book. I'm trying to tie quite a large number of threads together in this series, and it was a challenge to keep them all in the air at the same time.

The events in this chapter, then, will wrap back around to things that happen near the end of this book and in the next book. Mostly, I'm showing the real danger of the mists--that there IS indeed a reason to fear them. Either way, remember one thing from this chapter. Some people were killed (and there's a connection between the two people you've heard described specifically as dying from the mists) some people got away, and some people had seizures, but then were all right later

---------------------------------
Darn, now I'm going to have to go back and reread Chapter 15! I didn't note who was dying and who wasn't. Does anyone remember?

 

I will have to review this chapter for more details.  But I think this is where Sazed comes into the town where the people are all dead in the hovels, except for the one man.  He talks of how some people did get away with no harm and others shaked horribly on the ground. 

 

Now I am not sure if it is here in this chapter but there was talk of some people seizing then getting up and running away.  I will have to look for more details.

 

I am confused some by the mist attacks my self so any extra info. will help me greatly.  The mist attacks just don't fit together for me for some reason.  I feel like there is something I am missing of is missing from the info.

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Mists

Here it is.

 

Pg 170

'"Why didn't you leave?" Sazed asked quietly.

"Some did," the man said, nodding as if to himself.

"Jell. You know what happened to him."

Sazed frowned. "Dead?"

"Taken by the mist. Oh, how he shook. Was a bullheaded one, you know. Old Jell. Oh, how he shook. How he writhed when it took him."

Sazed closed his eyes. The corpses I found outside the doors.

"Some got away," the man said.

Sazed snapped his eyes open. "What?"

The crazed villager nodded again. "Some got away, you know. They called to us, after leaving the village. Said it was all right. It didn't take them. Don't know why. It killed others, though. Some, it shook to the ground, but they got up later. Some it killed."

 

 

It doesn't seem to differentiate who was aloud to live and not or just who seized.  I don't know if it has anything to do with metals in the body?  Or what the connection is.  I was watching for details of the people and didn't really see anything to help with that connection.

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Mists


Just another quick thought on the Mists.

 

It almost seems like it sucks something from the bodies?  Is it taking something from the bodies it is leaving dead?  Moisture, body metals???

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension

Sorry guys I couldn't get on last night but I hope to later tonight and will read and reply to everything then.
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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Mists

Mists

More Mist references from Brandon:

Chapt 51

Vin Sees the Mist Spirit while Traveling

What is the mist spirit? You'll get that explanation later. . .in book three. Sorry to have to keep saying that. I wanted to delve into the nature of the Mist Spirit more in this novel, but there was just too much packed into it already. You'll get a little more on the mist spirit, but the whole of what it is can't be explained yet.

Chapt 56

Elend in the Mists after Vin Leaves

I wanted to include a reference to mistwraiths in this book. They're a minor world element, but aspects of their origins are a piece of the puzzle that gets explained further. . .in book three.

The mists are indeed coming earlier in the day, and they are staying later in the mornings. They're getting stronger, you might say. Elend doesn't know this, but some of the very outer parts of the empire already have mists lingering almost to the afternoon. The answers to why are coming. . .in book three.

The mist spirit doesn't want Elend to go to Luthadel. And yes, it was using Allomancy on him. (Influencing his emotions, as it's done several places through this book.) It doesn't work very well. The thing doesn't have much of a mind remaining. The answer to why. . .yes, you guessed it. Book three.

As you can tell, I'm using this last section of the book to set up THE HERO OF AGES. I didn't want to do this--I wanted all three books to stand well on their own. However, the events in the third book are just too large to deal with in one novel, so they spilled over into the end of this one. I actually began foreshadowing a lot of these things in book one--they were just easier to hide then.

By the way, the scene where Elend stands there, looking into the darkness, hearing leaves rustle and thinking how frightening it is. . .well, that's a scene from my life. Nothing big, but one night I was just walking past a darkened backyard and I heard rustling like that. I stood for a while, looking into that darkness, realizing just how creepy it was to stand in shadowed light and stare into the void without knowing what was back there. I had to put that in a book.
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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension: Mists


Melhay wrote:

Just another quick thought on the Mists.

 

It almost seems like it sucks something from the bodies?  Is it taking something from the bodies it is leaving dead?  Moisture, body metals???


Wow Mel! You certainly come up with some interesting ideas! Maybe you should write a book yourself! It never occurred to me that it might "feed on people, but it is a good possibility.

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension


Melhay wrote:

***SPOILER***

 

I was really wondering where Sanderson was going with Cett and Allrianne.  I kept trying to figure what they were here for, particually Allrianne.  I couldn't tell if she was on Luthadels or Cetts side. 

 

Well, I guess Breeze is stuck with her for a while.  She really does love him, huh?  Is Breeze that distracted that he does not realize Allrianne was pulling on his emotions?

 

I had she was a little fisty thing, but I wasn't sure if it was for good or bad for Elend.  All in all I think she was a good thing, and still very stubborn and fisty.  She could be a good addition for the team and a good strong female figure.  (More femine than Vin with the dresses and makeup, but it may rub off a little on Vin in a good way.)


Mel, I was really wondering about Allrianne myself. Brandon hasn't said anything, that I have found, in his Annotations about her being anything specific. What I was wondering was whether she is a secret Mistborn on par with Vin and not the frivioulous female she appears to be. I kept wondering if she was going to make a surprise revelation of this toward the end of TWoA but nothing happened. Maybe she will appear again in THoA. I can'timagine Brandon throwing away a potentially surprising and interesting character on simply a romance with Breeze. Brandon could also use some more "strong" females.

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Re: Mistborn #2: The Well of Ascension


Briannah wrote:

Melhay wrote:

Nadine wrote:

carmen wrote:

Zane, he had a metal bar in his back like the Inquisitors. Do you think this is why he heard that voice that he called "God"? Do you think that the Inquisitors also hear this voice, maybe this is why they're so mean and killing machines? And these metal bars must get power from somewhere, I'm thinking it's from the evil power.

 

This also may be part of your answer, Melhay. If they are hearing this vocie then Marsh is hearing it to and knows something is coming. We don't know what it would be telling them they have what eleven bars when Zane only had one.

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Yes, I think you are right on here. The metal bar in Zane's back made him insane and "controlled" him and I think it (or at least one of the metal bars) controls the Inquisitors. The other metal bars in the Inquisitors probably serve other purposes.

 


 

Okay, I agree with the metal spikes being the way Zane and the Steel Inquisitors are being controlled. 

 

But the Lord Ruler made the Steel Inquisitors up himself.  How does that cross over to what this new creature or "God" is and how is it controlling them all?  Does this Well "God" posses the same powers as the Lord Ruler did? and very talented at using them?


 

Yes, but why and how did the Lord Ruler know to do this. Did he make a turce with this evil spirit (or whatever) to give it controll of these Inquisitors to do its will and worship? So it wouldn't fully take over the world?


Hi Bri. I too am just working my way through the posts. Glad to see you joining in. We could use a few more perspectives. :smileywink:

 

I'm still lost on where the Steel Inquisitors came from and exactly  how ordinary people become one. There were only 20 in existence in the first book and that number was depleted by half by the end of the book. I don't know if they are going to be droped, like the Obligators, or used more heavily in the final book. My feeling is (and I hope so) that we will be seeing more of Marsh in the last book and he will have something to do (and at this point I don't know what side he is on) with the remaining Inquisitors. Maybe, through whatever means they have, they might turn Zame into an Inquisitor.

 

Also, I was wondering if they were essentially immortal. They can be destroyed by pulling their "special" stake out (kind of reverse Vanpire move), but maybe, as long as they have that stake, they can be "reborn" or at least revived.