Mistborn #3: The Hero of Ages

[Nadine]

Mistborn #3: The Hero of Ages

Well, here we are folks and I hope more of you other folks out there will join us this time. We are finally to the last book in the Mistborn trilogy and soon will find out who the "Hero of Ages" is. I hope all of you have stopped at the final section "Trust" so we can now try to figure out who the "real" Hero of Ages will be. I know we are all anxious to get the final part read, particularly since Brandon left us with a cliff-hanger--and things are not looking good for the "good guys." So let's concentrate on the speculative stuff first and then we can finish this page-turner. Once we have finished our speculations we can continue our discussion of the rest of the book.

So I think the big question now is: Who is the Hero of Ages?

I have narrowed it down to:

Vin
Elend
Sazed
Spook
TenSoon
Marsh
Breeze
Ham
Allrianne
Beldre
Human

Gone but maybe not forgotten
Alendi
Kwaan
Rashek

All of the above
None of the above

OK, what is/are your best guess(es) and why?

[Nadine]

We have done some discussing of this subject earlier and I think we made some very interesting guesses that might be worth reviewing. The locations of the prior threads are at:

Mistborn #1 : The Final Empire

Mistborn #2 : The Well of Ascension

[Nadine]

My best guess!

Even though Vin has been identified throughout this book as the named "Hero of Ages", I am eliminating her along with Elend. Brandon has moved them down the rung as central characters and has moved up Sazed, Spook, TenSoon and Marsh as POV characters. Vin and Elend are also too obvious a choice. I assumed that the pre-chapter narrator (bumps) was the Hero (and I really have to reread these straight through on their own). My feeling was that this was Sazed and he was my front-runner, but again this started to seem too obvious. Then I started to lean toward Spook (if he survives). I just have a feeling that Brandon has something totally unexpected up his sleeve. Then I thought it would really be cool if it were TenSoon. We left him headed north and possibly to the rescue. My only problem with him is that I keep thinking of him as a dog!

Sooo, my official guess, for the next five minutes, is Spook because Brandon has moved him up from obscurity to key player and he has been in all three books. He also seems to fit the narrative's idea that he is an obscure, reluctant, insecure, and un-hero type Hero.

Of course if he doesn't survive I will have to think of someone else! I think I will go with the long shot and say Ten Soon. However, I did toy with the idea of Human.

[Melhay]

My guess for the moment is Vin, no Sazed, no Vin, no Sazed.  Oh... okay... I am kind of divided.  I just can't decide.

I feel that Vin is the one that is writing the bumps in this book.  The information that is showing up there also shows up in the book being or going to be told to Vin.  Yet, I know she is not a writer or reader so this is what leads me to think Sazed.  I keep bouncing back and forth between the two with this book and thinking back on the points that were made in the prior books.

[Melhay]

***SPOILERS***

 

I am going to jump the gun here and go right to something I, for some unknown reason, have been stuck on.  Vin and her Mother.  This has bothered me since the first book when Vin talks about her mother.  I think it has something to do with the queen comment.

     Book 1:

“Mad,” Vin said. “She heard voices. It got so bad that my brother was afraid to leave us alone with her. But, of course, he didn’t have a choice….”

…

     Still, it was good to speak it finally. She reached up, idly fingering her earring. “I don’t remember it,” she said, “but Reen said that he came home one day and found my mother covered in blood. She’d killed my baby sister. Messily. Me, however, she hadn’t touched-except to give me an earring. Reen said…He said she was holding me on her lap, babbling and proclaiming me a queen, my sister’s corpse at our feet. He took me from my mother, and she fled. He saved my life, probably. That’s part of why I stayed with him, I guess. Even when it was bad.”

 

What if Vin’s mother was not crazy after all?  As we have seen in book 3 the ones who hear voices hear them for a reason – Ruin.  What if her mother was hearing Ruin?  It has been mentioned that Ruin was able to communicate with people (with metal in them) before he was released.  In this book we find that the voice of Reen was Ruin in Vin’s head.

 

Now I am going to go a little further… What if her mother performed Hemalurgy on Vin?  Okay, give me a moment, I am not crazy.

   1 – Vin said the death of her little sister was very messy.  As Marsh has mentioned that the process of the Hemalurgy is also very messy. (I believe that was the same term used by Marsh and by Vin in both the cases.)

   2 – The Bump at the beginning of chapter 45 talks of how Hemalugy can make a power twice as strong.

“A man with a given power-such as an Allomantic ability-who then gained a Hemalurgic spike granting that same power would be nearly twice as strong as a natural unenhanced Allomancer.

  An Inquisitor who was a Seeker before his transformation would therefore have an enhanced ability to use bronze. This simple fact explains how many Inquisitors were able to pierce copperclouds.”

   3 – Remember Vin’s earring is Bronze. This was mentioned in book 2 and again in book 3 when Vin is held captive by Yomen.

“An unpopular metal indeed…” Yomen said, nodding to the side. A servant approached Vin, bearing something on a small platter. Her mother’s earring. It was a dull thing, Allomantically, made of bronze with some silver plating. Much of the gilding had worn off years ago, and the brownish bronze showed through, making the earring look to be the cheap bauble it was.”

 

Bronze helps pierce copperclouds and Vin is exceptionally good at this!!!  I believe other than a few Inquisitors she is the only other one to be able to do this.  Which also helps her control the Koloss and Kandra.

 

Could Ruin have planned this out long ago?  Could he have done this with many till one fit into the steps he needed them to?

[Nadine]

Brilliant analysis, Melissa. I have been wondering about that earring as well, and Brandon does keep bringing it up so it must have significance. But I never thought of your angle and you could have something there. I will have to think on this a bit. You really hit me with a surprise! A very plausible surprise.

 

---

Melhay wrote:

***SPOILERS***

 

I am going to jump the gun here and go right to something I, for some unknown reason, have been stuck on.  Vin and her Mother.  This has bothered me since the first book when Vin talks about her mother.  I think it has something to do with the queen comment.

     Book 1:

“Mad,” Vin said. “She heard voices. It got so bad that my brother was afraid to leave us alone with her. But, of course, he didn’t have a choice….”

…

     Still, it was good to speak it finally. She reached up, idly fingering her earring. “I don’t remember it,” she said, “but Reen said that he came home one day and found my mother covered in blood. She’d killed my baby sister. Messily. Me, however, she hadn’t touched-except to give me an earring. Reen said…He said she was holding me on her lap, babbling and proclaiming me a queen, my sister’s corpse at our feet. He took me from my mother, and she fled. He saved my life, probably. That’s part of why I stayed with him, I guess. Even when it was bad.”

 

What if Vin’s mother was not crazy after all?  As we have seen in book 3 the ones who hear voices hear them for a reason – Ruin.  What if her mother was hearing Ruin?  It has been mentioned that Ruin was able to communicate with people (with metal in them) before he was released.  In this book we find that the voice of Reen was Ruin in Vin’s head.

 

Now I am going to go a little further… What if her mother performed Hemalurgy on Vin?  Okay, give me a moment, I am not crazy.

   1 – Vin said the death of her little sister was very messy.  As Marsh has mentioned that the process of the Hemalurgy is also very messy. (I believe that was the same term used by Marsh and by Vin in both the cases.)

   2 – The Bump at the beginning of chapter 45 talks of how Hemalugy can make a power twice as strong.

“A man with a given power-such as an Allomantic ability-who then gained a Hemalurgic spike granting that same power would be nearly twice as strong as a natural unenhanced Allomancer.

  An Inquisitor who was a Seeker before his transformation would therefore have an enhanced ability to use bronze. This simple fact explains how many Inquisitors were able to pierce copperclouds.”

   3 – Remember Vin’s earring is Bronze. This was mentioned in book 2 and again in book 3 when Vin is held captive by Yomen.

“An unpopular metal indeed…” Yomen said, nodding to the side. A servant approached Vin, bearing something on a small platter. Her mother’s earring. It was a dull thing, Allomantically, made of bronze with some silver plating. Much of the gilding had worn off years ago, and the brownish bronze showed through, making the earring look to be the cheap bauble it was.”

 

Bronze helps pierce copperclouds and Vin is exceptionally good at this!!!  I believe other than a few Inquisitors she is the only other one to be able to do this.  Which also helps her control the Koloss and Kandra.

 

Could Ruin have planned this out long ago?  Could he have done this with many till one fit into the steps he needed them to?

---

[Nadine]

I have been trying to figure out the purpose of Allrianne. I haven't yet figured out why Brandon has kept her around. She seems so out-of-place and not really serving any particular purpose. In fact, I expected her to show some special abilities (like being a Mistborn) much earlier. There could be a surprise here, though, like with Beldre. Beldre, even as a minor character, did serve a purpose in the advancement of the plot. I'm sure Allrianne must have some special powers that we don't know about yet and she is going to serve some pivotal part in the plot.

[Melhay]

---

Nadine wrote:

Brilliant analysis, Melissa. I have been wondering about that earring as well, and Brandon does keep bringing it up so it must have significance. But I never thought of your angle and you could have something there. I will have to think on this a bit. You really hit me with a surprise! A very plausible surprise.

---

It just slapped me when I read the part of how Ruin was Reen in her head.  That Earring was the 'metal' he needed to get to her.

Now my next question...

What of Sazed?  He could not hear Ruin because he removed all his metal bracers and earrings and the metal rings that were inside him from book 2.  Where we left off he was wearing his bracers.  Do these pierce the skin?  On the Lord Ruler they did, but do they on Sazed?  Will he start to hear Ruin now also?????  Will he keep his metals on?

[Melhay]

---

Nadine wrote:
I have been trying to figure out the purpose of Allrianne. I haven't yet figured out why Brandon has kept her around. She seems so out-of-place and not really serving any particular purpose. In fact, I expected her to show some special abilities (like being a Mistborn) much earlier. There could be a surprise here, though, like with Beldre. Beldre, even as a minor character, did serve a purpose in the advancement of the plot. I'm sure Allrianne must have some special powers that we don't know about yet and she is going to serve some pivotal part in the plot.

---

I had thought the same.  I thought Allrianne was going to be a bigger role in this book and do something great.  So far you haven't heard to much about her except for her being as good as Breeze and her rioting the emotions of the people at the, I think it was, the house fire to kill the people (and a child) and at the moment they where going to expose Quellion as a coinshot.

Though Sazed used her and Breeze as an example of how the world had changed with the Lord Ruler gone.  Sazed thought no one had priorities, like marriage, anymore.  He thought they all thought there was no point.

[Nadine]

---

Melhay wrote:

---

Nadine wrote:

Brilliant analysis, Melissa. I have been wondering about that earring as well, and Brandon does keep bringing it up so it must have significance. But I never thought of your angle and you could have something there. I will have to think on this a bit. You really hit me with a surprise! A very plausible surprise.

---

It just slapped me when I read the part of how Ruin was Reen in her head.  That Earring was the 'metal' he needed to get to her.

Now my next question...

What of Sazed?  He could not hear Ruin because he removed all his metal bracers and earrings and the metal rings that were inside him from book 2.  Where we left off he was wearing his bracers.  Do these pierce the skin?  On the Lord Ruler they did, but do they on Sazed?  Will he start to hear Ruin now also?????  Will he keep his metals on?

---

I think they have to pierce the skin somehow. I don't remember Sazed hearing Ruin but I also didn't remember he removed the metal rings inside him. But the ring removal is probably just my leaky memory -- you are always right on these things. Ruin could also be handling some people in more subtle manners rather than just urging them to kill someone.

[Melhay]

---

Nadine wrote:

---

Melhay wrote:

---

Nadine wrote:

Brilliant analysis, Melissa. I have been wondering about that earring as well, and Brandon does keep bringing it up so it must have significance. But I never thought of your angle and you could have something there. I will have to think on this a bit. You really hit me with a surprise! A very plausible surprise.

---

It just slapped me when I read the part of how Ruin was Reen in her head.  That Earring was the 'metal' he needed to get to her.

Now my next question...

What of Sazed?  He could not hear Ruin because he removed all his metal bracers and earrings and the metal rings that were inside him from book 2.  Where we left off he was wearing his bracers.  Do these pierce the skin?  On the Lord Ruler they did, but do they on Sazed?  Will he start to hear Ruin now also?????  Will he keep his metals on?

---

I think they have to pierce the skin somehow. I don't remember Sazed hearing Ruin but I also didn't remember he removed the metal rings inside him. But the ring removal is probably just my leaky memory -- you are always right on these things. Ruin could also be handling some people in more subtle manners rather than just urging them to kill someone.

---

Sazed has not heard Ruin as of yet in the book.  I am worried that if he wears his earrings or the bracers if they go through the skin (I am not sure) but the earrings will cause him to be susceptible to Ruins voice and possible influence. 

Yet, I want him to put them all on again to be himself again.

[Nadine]

I have a question with more of a philosophical twist to it. The world was kept in balance by Preservation and Ruin. Both were need for creation and both are actually needed to maintain the world. Now Preservation has faded away -- or maybe his is "filling up" the Well or something. But without Preservation the balance is lost and everything is controled by Ruin. Theoretically, it is a hopeless situation. Ruin is inevitable.

Actually, I'm not thinking of Ruin as a particularly negative character. He is more a force of nature, like death and decay. Death and decay in nature makes new life possible. But Preservation is needed to maintain life.

So I am wondering how the balance can be restored? This can't be just the effort of the surving sentient population. Both Ruin and Preservation are needed.

[Nadine]

---

Melhay wrote:

My guess for the moment is Vin, no Sazed, no Vin, no Sazed.  Oh... okay... I am kind of divided.  I just can't decide.

I feel that Vin is the one that is writing the bumps in this book.  The information that is showing up there also shows up in the book being or going to be told to Vin.  Yet, I know she is not a writer or reader so this is what leads me to think Sazed.  I keep bouncing back and forth between the two with this book and thinking back on the points that were made in the prior books.

---

I think I'm going to have to reread those "bumps" as a continuous narrative tonight.

It is curious; Brandon gave us extensive annotations on everything for the first two books, and he has said very little about this one. I think Kristi found something somewhere that he just hadn't gotten around to it. Maybe that is it, or maybe he didn't want to reveal something.

[Melhay]

---

Nadine wrote:

I have a question with more of a philosophical twist to it. The world was kept in balance by Preservation and Ruin. Both were need for creation and both are actually needed to maintain the world. Now Preservation has faded away -- or maybe his is "filling up" the Well or something. But without Preservation the balance is lost and everything is controled by Ruin. Theoretically, it is a hopeless situation. Ruin is inevitable.

Actually, I'm not thinking of Ruin as a particularly negative character. He is more a force of nature, like death and decay. Death and decay in nature makes new life possible. But Preservation is needed to maintain life.

So I am wondering how the balance can be restored? This can't be just the effort of the surving sentient population. Both Ruin and Preservation are needed.

---

I do have to agree with you on Ruin.  It wasn't till closer to the end of section 2 in the book that I realized the same thing, Ruin is a force of nature.

I am slightly confused with this.

  "bump" at beginning of chapter 56:

      "I don't know why Preservation decided to use his last bit of life appearing to Elend during his trek back to Fadrex.

       ...

        If Elend had waited just a few more minutes on that ashen field, he would have seen a body-short of stature, black hair, prominent nose-fall from the mists and slump dead into the ash.

       As it was, the corpse was left alone to be buried in ash. The world was dying. Its gods had to die with it."

  "bump" at beginning of chapter 58:

      "Once you begin to understand these things, you can see how Ruin was trapped even though Preservation's mind was gone, expended to create the prison. Though Preservation's consciousness was mostly destroyed, his spirit and body were still in force. And, as an opposite force of Ruin, these would still prevent Ruin from destroying.

        Or, at least, keep him from destroying things too quickly. Once his mind was "freed" from its prison the destruction accelerated quickly."

So, is it that only 1 third of Preservation died?  Or is chapter 58's bump from before the bump at chapter 56?

[Nadine]

One possible theory on who the "Hero of Ages" might be, that we discussed in a previous book, is that there wasn't just one hero but that there is a "joint heroship (if that is a possible word!)". I will have to see if I can find our discussion of that point. If this is true then I think it would have to be the POV character and each serves his or her part in the final resolution. The six POVs are:

Vin
Elend
Sazed
Spook
TenSoon
Marsh

Now Marsh is one that I have put aside as too mean and far gone, but maybe not. Thinking that way, then I do think Sazed is the narrator of the "bumps" but as the official chronicler, which would actually be his job.

Now that could also bring us back to the philosophical premise. Each of these had character flaws they had to overcome that in someway are also flaws being utilized by Ruin. This may be symbolically leaning that way. As each overcomes his or her character flaws (and incidentally graphicly represented in some ways by the insertion of some metal object) they move toward overcoming Ruin -- and maybe restoring Preservation. Part of this process is not "giving into them" and thereby not giving into Ruin.

[Melhay]

---

Nadine wrote:

---

Melhay wrote:

My guess for the moment is Vin, no Sazed, no Vin, no Sazed.  Oh... okay... I am kind of divided.  I just can't decide.

I feel that Vin is the one that is writing the bumps in this book.  The information that is showing up there also shows up in the book being or going to be told to Vin.  Yet, I know she is not a writer or reader so this is what leads me to think Sazed.  I keep bouncing back and forth between the two with this book and thinking back on the points that were made in the prior books.

---

I think I'm going to have to reread those "bumps" as a continuous narrative tonight.

It is curious; Brandon gave us extensive annotations on everything for the first two books, and he has said very little about this one. I think Kristi found something somewhere that he just hadn't gotten around to it. Maybe that is it, or maybe he didn't want to reveal something.

---

I was looking through the book to see what bumps I thought would be what Vin would know to help you see what I am seeing.

Most of these bumps have to do with the Kandra & Koloss.

   Ch 38 - The Kandra information I would have figured Vin would know once TenSoon finds her.  TenSoon feels that she is their mother and wants to tell her everything on them.

   Ch 40 - On the creating of the Koloss - which then Vin finds out from Human this info.

   Ch 41 - Again Kandra info which I thought TenSoon would share with Vin.

   Ch 42 - The view on Koloss

However now that I read these, the information stricks me as what Vin has found out, but the writing may be of the style Sazed would use.  Maybe Sazed is the one writing?

Ohhhh, there I go again.  I just can't decide between Vin or Sazed...

Message Edited by Melhay on 05-31-2009 10:34 PM

[Nadine]

---

Melhay wrote:

---

Nadine wrote:

I have a question with more of a philosophical twist to it. The world was kept in balance by Preservation and Ruin. Both were need for creation and both are actually needed to maintain the world. Now Preservation has faded away -- or maybe his is "filling up" the Well or something. But without Preservation the balance is lost and everything is controled by Ruin. Theoretically, it is a hopeless situation. Ruin is inevitable.

Actually, I'm not thinking of Ruin as a particularly negative character. He is more a force of nature, like death and decay. Death and decay in nature makes new life possible. But Preservation is needed to maintain life.

So I am wondering how the balance can be restored? This can't be just the effort of the surving sentient population. Both Ruin and Preservation are needed.

---

I do have to agree with you on Ruin.  It wasn't till closer to the end of section 2 in the book that I realized the same thing, Ruin is a force of nature.

I am slightly confused with this.

  "bump" at beginning of chapter 56:

      "I don't know why Preservation decided to use his last bit of life appearing to Elend during his trek back to Fadrex.

       ...

        If Elend had waited just a few more minutes on that ashen field, he would have seen a body-short of stature, black hair, prominent nose-fall from the mists and slump dead into the ash.

       As it was, the corpse was left alone to be buried in ash. The world was dying. Its gods had to die with it."

  "bump" at beginning of chapter 58:

      "Once you begin to understand these things, you can see how Ruin was trapped even though Preservation's mind was gone, expended to create the prison. Though Preservation's consciousness was mostly destroyed, his spirit and body were still in force. And, as an opposite force of Ruin, these would still prevent Ruin from destroying.

        Or, at least, keep him from destroying things too quickly. Once his mind was "freed" from its prison the destruction accelerated quickly."

So, is it that only 1 third of Preservation died?  Or is chapter 58's bump from before the bump at chapter 56?

---

Good finds, Melissa!

This is a popular theme:  As it was, the corpse was left alone to be buried in ash. The world was dying. Its gods had to die with it.

Usually, this indicates the birth of new gods. Maybe you have found something where the world may still be saved.

Ruin was trapped even though Preservation's mind was gone, expended to create the prison. Though Preservation's consciousness was mostly destroyed, his spirit and body were still in force. And, as an opposite force of Ruin, these would still prevent Ruin from destroying.

So Preservation is still there "as some sort of force of nature."

[Nadine]

Another thing I have been wondering about is Sazed search for his lost religion. Though most of this, I thought it was just a personal quest because of the emotional crisis he was going through. I think he is down to some 50 religions at this point.

But he also started out as the primary collector of religions trying to find the long lost religion of the Terris people. I am wondering if the "key" to restoring balance to the world is in the "final" religion that he gets to, the long lost religion of the Terrans. Lord Ruler deliberately tried to destroy this and also anyone who remembered it. So I think this is key to the resolution of the story.

Message Edited by Nadine on 05-31-2009 10:47 PM

[Melhay]

After reading your post on Preservation and Ruin with the crews flaws they needed to overcome being part of what Ruin uses, I wanted to mention what I was thinking on Ruin.

Ruin seems to be set on the "kill" issue.  He wants specific people under his control and specific people killed.  I may be looking to deep, but I think he is having killed or controling all the people that are strong enough to fight him. 

He is controling: Penrod, Spook, Quellion, and in the book it mentions that there are many high level people he had been able to stick with metal.

He is trying to kill: In Urteau the people with extreme faith and influence to dampen the reast of the city, Beldre, Yomen, and I am sure there are more but they are not coming to me at the moment.

When Preservation tells Elend to go to Luthadel and not attack Fadre I wondered if everyone quit attacking if it would hurt Ruin enough to slow him down.

[Nadine]

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Melhay wrote:

After reading your post on Preservation and Ruin with the crews flaws they needed to overcome being part of what Ruin uses, I wanted to mention what I was thinking on Ruin.

Ruin seems to be set on the "kill" issue.  He wants specific people under his control and specific people killed.  I may be looking to deep, but I think he is having killed or controling all the people that are strong enough to fight him. 

He is controling: Penrod, Spook, Quellion, and in the book it mentions that there are many high level people he had been able to stick with metal.

He is trying to kill: In Urteau the people with extreme faith and influence to dampen the reast of the city, Beldre, Yomen, and I am sure there are more but they are not coming to me at the moment.

When Preservation tells Elend to go to Luthadel and not attack Fadre I wondered if everyone quit attacking if it would hurt Ruin enough to slow him down.

---

You  know that is really a good idea. I remember in an early Star Trek -- I think it was the first Kingon encounter -- that some force fed on violence and the only way to destroy that violence was to stop fighting.