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Correspondent
ManuelGarcia
Posts: 83
Registered: ‎12-25-2009

Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

[ Edited ]

Einstein, since you say "I do not have time for such"  I don't know if you will read this.  But I thought I would explain my point of view to people do read it.

 

First I have nothing against you personally, you have never gave me any reason to not believe you are sincere in what you write and believe in it. I just want to explain why I don't believe it.

 

You say "no sales with a book that is reasonably well promoted, means no interest." That is correct except you didn't finish it.  I believe it should read "no sales with a book that is reasonably well promoted, means no interest in that book."

 

You say "A certain mind-set mind is required to read the work of a new author. It's more comfortable to reread the works of long-dead authors. A new author just might have new ideas, and new ideas can be mighty unsettling" Also true, I read the following author's books when that the only book they had published: Alastair Reynolds' "Revelation Space", Robert L. Forward's "Dragon's Egg", Larry Niven's "World of Ptavvs", David Weber's "On Basilisk Station", David Brin's "Sundiver", Greg Bear's "Hegira" and even the nonfiction "How to Teach Physics to Your Dog" by Chad Orzel.

 

You say "My book emphasizes the techniques and results of living in a completely closed (except for energy input) society, on the Moon, for 20 generations." That shows that the book is fiction.  There is no way to accurately predict the changes that will happen in a 1,000 years.  Just think of what was going on in the year 1012.  In fact no one in 1962 predicted that in 2012, people like me would have computers in their pockets that had more CPU power and storage than the current computers which take up entire rooms, can use a radio to call any phone in the world, and connect to large numbers of computers again by radio to quickly get information like the weather, sport's scores, order almost anything.  However writing about the far future in itself doesn't hurt a story, I have read many stories set in the far future, but realize there is no way they can be correct any more than fiction about wizard schools can be correct.

 

You haven't directly asked why I have no interest in "MOON Base Colony", but I will tell you. It is because of "Starship To New Earth NOW". When I read "The constant acceleration required to approach light speed could be provided by a small nuclear reactor, of the type used on atomic submarines."  I was pretty sure that when you came up with what you thought was a new answer to the problem that you didn't check the existing literature to see if it was truly new or that other people had thought of it rejected it because the math that shows it doesn't work. Now I realize that is an assumption, maybe the book has a reference to the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation and you have math to show why you don't think it applies when everyone else does, but since the equation dates back to 1903 and then revised for relativity which actually shows it is more difficult to get to relativistic speeds, but I doubt it. So I assume if you didn't research for nonfiction, you didn't research for fiction.  Plagiarizing isn't a problem for fiction, ideas can't be copyrighted, only expressions. It doesn't have to be a problem for nonfiction either, just fair use amounts of other's work to support yours and attribute the author and his work. 

 

So it again lack of interest in getting your books isn't proof of lack of interest in the subjects. Now the low number of people in this thread making comments might show a lack of interest in the subject, or people might be turned off because the thread shifted to comments about your books instead of if space colonies are a good idea and if so should the first be the moon or mars.

 

So again back on subject "Moon first then Mars."

 

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
RHWright
Posts: 1,612
Registered: ‎10-21-2009

Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?


ManuelGarcia wrote:

[...] Now the low number of people in this thread making comments might show a lack of interest in the subject, or people might be turned off because the thread shifted to comments about your books instead of if space colonies are a good idea and if so should the first be the moon or mars.

 


And, while we may be interested in the subject, the tone of this thread, as well as some other threads the OP has been involved in, may have led us to believe that any opinion not in agreement with the OP would be scorned as uninformed, wrong-headed, or percieved as a personal attack.

 

I will always give my honest feedback to an author either in a review or directly, when requested, but not when that feedback is met with responses like, "Just how many books have you written, published and sold? When your number is anywhere near mine, THEN you can give me advice, and not before."

 

The attitude that comes across—note I say comes across, there is no way to 100% discern any poster's true attitude. Each reader may get something different based on their reding—is basically, I'm better than you, I'm smarter than you, and I'm a (self-published) writer, so I speak with authority, and you, as my potential customers, do not.

 

So, my purely uninformed consumer perspective is that if this attitude is what comes across in all of your marketing efforts, maybe it isn't as effective as you think it is. (OK, maybe my perspective isn't so "uniformed". I worked in bookselling for over a decade, including as a buyer of local authors. I'm currently a professional writer. No, I don't have any "published books." Not that kind of writer. But I write. And get paid for it. Very well paid. That's all I'll say about that.)

 

I've tried my best to hold my tongue and stay out of this, but the arrogance of the OP's above quoted statement was just to much.

 

Thus endeth the rant.

Distinguished Scribe
Omnigeek
Posts: 877
Registered: ‎01-25-2011

Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

I'm sorry the OP perceives any disagreement as personal attack; I don't think any of my comments were such but other third-party readers would be best equipped to make the determination.

 

I will add one thing to RHWright's reaction.  Compare the act of authorship to cooking.  You don't have to be a Robert Irvine or Bobby Flay to tell that what you just got at the local cafe is bland/overspiced, overcooked/undercooked, etc. (although you MIGHT take such criticism with a grain of salt if the critic has only ever had Kraft Macaroni & Cheese or Chef Boy-ar-dee).  I don't write fiction; I know my limitations and while I got decent marks in creative writing for short essays, I have never been happy with my plot design or character development in longer stories.  I have, however, spent over 40 years reading a variety of genres and subjects (especially hard and soft SF) as well as over 20 years specifically in space systems.

 

Most of the teaser efforts I'm familiar with offer up a chapter or two to entice future readers.  This gives the prospective reader a chance to sample the authors' prose, character design, etc. without the hassle of "returning" an unsatisfactory work.  To use my analogy above, this is like restaurants or chefs that demo sampler plates at the local expo/fair or "Taste of _____" exhibition.

 

In any event, as ManuelGarcia said, lack of interest in a particular book doesn't equate to lack of interest in the subject.  This thread is a better way to tease out interest than the OP's earlier PR thread for his book but a lot of potential readers might have felt themselves unqualified to answer the question.  I think it would have been better to pull out longer explanations of why respondents felt the way they do (the OP might note that a lot of my reasons for saying the Moon support his own opinion).  This would have been a good way to link to parallels -- or counter-examples -- within his book, thereby demonstrating detailed familiarity with the subject.

 

I wish the OP luck in his ventures as I do all budding authors.  It doesn't mean I'll spend time (more of an issue for me than the cost) on his product but perhaps someone will and enjoy it.

Currently reading: Destiny of the Republic, The Heritage of Shannara, Lonely Planet: Melbourne & Victoria
Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,411
Registered: ‎01-22-2012

Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

The OP has violated virtually ALL of the principles taught in Marketing 101 courses.  He should NEVER tell the world that not a single copy of the book has been sold.  He should NOT whine about the lack of success of any of his works.  He should NOT criticize potential readers if he really wishes to entice them to purchase his books.  He should NOT brag about the success(es) of any of his other works when trying to persuade people to purchase THIS book. 

 

After reading his chain of posts, I would NEVER purchase this book.  Too bad, so sad.  Take a course in Marketing at your local community college. 

Correspondent
ManuelGarcia
Posts: 83
Registered: ‎12-25-2009
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

NASA's vision as shown in "Voyages Charting the Course for Sustainable Human Space Exploration" is go to the Moon first then Mars.  Also NASA has several articles on Moon Colonies here is one.

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Omnigeek
Posts: 877
Registered: ‎01-25-2011
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?


ManuelGarcia wrote:

NASA's vision as shown in "Voyages Charting the Course for Sustainable Human Space Exploration" is go to the Moon first then Mars.  Also NASA has several articles on Moon Colonies here is one.


That's very consistent with Lori Garver's past with the National Space Society and advocacy for making human habitation in space permanent rather than engaging in an Apollo-like fleeting visit to Mars.

 

Currently reading: Destiny of the Republic, The Heritage of Shannara, Lonely Planet: Melbourne & Victoria
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EinsteinPD
Posts: 232
Registered: ‎05-08-2012
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

deesy 58, I just dropped in, and reading your thread repeatedly telling me what NOT to do, I am replying to tell YOU what  to do. You need to close your mouth regarding telling me what to do, because you simply do not know what you are talking about. FYI I had my own business, and it was very successful, enough so that I am now independently wealthy. What is YOUR business experience?

 

You simply missed the point, that my post you refer to was NOT to market this book. It was to let the Forum know my thoughts and feelings. This is called being honest, something foreign to supposed marketing "experts" like you.

 

And, I don't "whine" I complain, and rightfully so. A person like you gives good reason to complain. As for your "NEVER purchasing this book," I reply as follows: It says in the Bible, no doubt another book you will NEVER read, "Cast not your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot, and then turn and rend you." After all the time and trouble I went to discussing and explaining "MOON Base Colony" in this thread, for Posters to state repeatedly their considerable interest in the subject, but not to at least look at the book, and then return it, must be said at best to be close minded, and at worst rude.

 

I write for people who are interested in a subject, and also have enough of an open mind to read something recent about it. Obviously my book "MOON Base Colony" has not been read by a single Poster on this thread. Please know it has sold, and is being read, elsewhere. I am disappointed by the lack of positive response, and the prevalence of negative response, on this thread. I do not have time to reply further. Be as negative as you want. It suits you.

 

Very truly, 

 

Phil Duke Ph.D.

 

 

Frequent Contributor
EinsteinPD
Posts: 232
Registered: ‎05-08-2012
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

ManuelGarcia, out of respect for you I am taking time to reply, in the hope you will understand better where I am coming from.

 

My book "Starship To New Earth NOW" was written in the attempt to popularize the concept. FYI Amazon.com is VERY particular about plagiarism,and if I read everything current, I may well unconsciously include something of it. Amazon.com has banned numerous authors for such. I cannot chance that. Both Jules Verne and H.G. Wells shot people out of a cannon, at a time when Newton's laws were well established. Were they criticized for that? Maybe, but these books are still respected classics. So I can have a starship propelled by nuclear energy. Few read it. Once fusion energy becomes practical, so will the starship propulsion system. It will NEVER be practical to shoot people out of a cannon. I trust you get my drift?

 

You should not decide against reading "MOON Base Colony" due to what you coinsider a single technical flaw in a prior book. Even Einstein made a mistake- re his "cosmological constant." Why don't you read the Amazon review "Poppycock Science" about the Starship book, where Einstein's work is all nonsense, and he is defamed. Perhaps then you will appreciate better what I am up against?

 

Your Posts are by far the best, and I thank you for them. I hope that someday you will read MOON Base Colony. If you want I will gift it to you. Just email me, drpduke@wmconnect.com

 

Best regards,

 

Phil Duke Ph.D.

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EinsteinPD
Posts: 232
Registered: ‎05-08-2012
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

RHWright, regarding your overall negative post about me and my work, and your statement about my "arrogance," I would hate to read what you say, when you do NOT decide to "hold my tongue" and "stay out of this." Rudeness is never in style.

Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,411
Registered: ‎01-22-2012

Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?


EinsteinPD wrote:

deesy 58, I just dropped in, and reading your thread repeatedly telling me what NOT to do, I am replying to tell YOU what  to do. You need to close your mouth regarding telling me what to do, because you simply do not know what you are talking about. FYI I had my own business, and it was very successful, enough so that I am now independently wealthy. What is YOUR business experience?

 

You simply missed the point, that my post you refer to was NOT to market this book. It was to let the Forum know my thoughts and feelings. This is called being honest, something foreign to supposed marketing "experts" like you.

 

And, I don't "whine" I complain, and rightfully so. A person like you gives good reason to complain. As for your "NEVER purchasing this book," I reply as follows: It says in the Bible, no doubt another book you will NEVER read, "Cast not your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot, and then turn and rend you." After all the time and trouble I went to discussing and explaining "MOON Base Colony" in this thread, for Posters to state repeatedly their considerable interest in the subject, but not to at least look at the book, and then return it, must be said at best to be close minded, and at worst rude.

 

I write for people who are interested in a subject, and also have enough of an open mind to read something recent about it. Obviously my book "MOON Base Colony" has not been read by a single Poster on this thread. Please know it has sold, and is being read, elsewhere. I am disappointed by the lack of positive response, and the prevalence of negative response, on this thread. I do not have time to reply further. Be as negative as you want. It suits you.

 

Very truly, 

 

Phil Duke Ph.D.

 

 


There isn't a whole lot of difference between complaining and whining. 

 

Be careful with your bragging and assumptions.  You never know whether the one you are attacking might have more impressive credentials than yours.  If you are so independently wealthy, why do you appear to be so desperate to sell your books?  Obviously, you do not need the revenues ... 

 

Your posts were CLEARLY intended to market your book.  Perhaps you should go back and read them again.

 

If you wish to make a salient point, quoting from the Bible is not the way to do it.  Perhaps you could benefit by reading a book about Marketing. 

 

 

 

Frequent Contributor
EinsteinPD
Posts: 232
Registered: ‎05-08-2012
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

deesy58, I have no desire or need to argue with you, but your consistently negative and factually erroneous posts regarding me require a reply, because otherwise the uninformed might think they have some basis in fact, when in fact they have none. I reply to your last Post point by point.

 

It is simply derogatory for you to state I am "whining" and that I am "bragging."

 

If you have any credentials at all, let us see them. I presented mine, where are yours, if any?

 

I stated repeatedly that this ebook has a 7 day FREE return policy with Amazon.com, and also that if a person would simply email me and state interest but cannot afford to buy, I would gift it to them. This should indicate clearly that I am trying to market, not sell the ebook. I want readers not buyers.

 

Obviously for YOU a direct quote from the Bible, which happens to be the world's most widely published, translated and read book, and which many people believe to be the word of God, means nothing.

 

Regarding marketing, I will put up the sales of my ebooks up against yours anytime. Just how many ebooks have you written, publiahed and marketed?

 

In closing, this thread which is supposed to be about my ebook's subject, has descended to simply being personal attacks on me. It is going nowhere positive, and I think now is a good time to end it. If you or any other Poster again posts derogatory personal attacks on me, I will bring this to the attention of the Forum moderator.

 

 

 

 

 

Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,411
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

Do you also imagine that your father could "beat up" my father?  How juvenile!

Correspondent
ManuelGarcia
Posts: 83
Registered: ‎12-25-2009
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

Back on topic

 

NASA May Unveil New Manned Moon Missions Soon

 

Not exactly colonies, but at least a return to the moon and going beyond the moon.

Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,411
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?


ManuelGarcia wrote:

Back on topic

 

NASA May Unveil New Manned Moon Missions Soon

 

Not exactly colonies, but at least a return to the moon and going beyond the moon.


The Congress is arguing about cutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and Defense spending.  Does anybody really believe that NASA will remain unscathed with all this austerity madness now inflaming conservatives in both parties?  Will the American people accept cuts to programs to which they have contributed for years, but allow NASA to send new expeditions to the moon?  :smileyindifferent:

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ManuelGarcia
Posts: 83
Registered: ‎12-25-2009
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

You are probably right about the NASA budget.  I am one of those that think it is raining soup in outer space and so far we (the people of Earth) are reluctant to make the proper soup bowls to get it.  But maybe private enterprise will be willing.

Huge Mars Colony Eyed by SpaceX Founder Elon Musk

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deesy58
Posts: 2,411
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?


ManuelGarcia wrote:

You are probably right about the NASA budget.  I am one of those that think it is raining soup in outer space and so far we (the people of Earth) are reluctant to make the proper soup bowls to get it.  But maybe private enterprise will be willing.

Huge Mars Colony Eyed by SpaceX Founder Elon Musk


It seems apparent that private enterprise is playing an increasingly important role in space exploration, but they must remain profitable in order to survive.  NASA became bloated and complacent.  Then they suffered two catastrophes with the Shuttle program.  When the economy was booming, America could afford the bloat and inefficiency.  Not anymore!  Private enterprise understands what it means to be "lean and mean."  I believe that entrepreneurs now have a golden opportunity to lead the way. 

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Omnigeek
Posts: 877
Registered: ‎01-25-2011
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?


ManuelGarcia wrote:

You are probably right about the NASA budget.  I am one of those that think it is raining soup in outer space and so far we (the people of Earth) are reluctant to make the proper soup bowls to get it.  But maybe private enterprise will be willing.

Huge Mars Colony Eyed by SpaceX Founder Elon Musk



Another Pournelle fan?  Jerry used that exact phrase repeatedly in A Step Farther Out and Another Step Farther Out which are some of the books I mean when I talk about prior literature.  It was highly encouraging to read a couple months ago that someone is finally talking about exploiting the mineral wealth of the asteroids.

Currently reading: Destiny of the Republic, The Heritage of Shannara, Lonely Planet: Melbourne & Victoria
Correspondent
ManuelGarcia
Posts: 83
Registered: ‎12-25-2009
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

I knew I read it somewhere but didn't actually remember where, which is why I said "I am one of those that think".  However I have read both A Step Farther Out and Another Step Farther Out so that is obvious where I read it. With that information I found the actual quote.

 

"It's raining soup out there, and the bean counters are telling us we can't afford soup bowls." --Dr. Jerry Pournelle "A Step Farther Out".

 

 

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Rick_BN
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎06-08-2012
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

[ Edited ]

How many pages is your book about the Moon Colony?

Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,411
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Off-world colony- Mars or the Moon?

You might find this article interesting: "'Golden Spike Company' Expected To Announce Commercial Travel To Moon Starting In 2020."

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/05/golden-spike-moon-travel_n_2238546.html

 

I first heard about this undertaking yesterday on NPR.