Daughters of the Witching Hill familiars

[dhaupt]

Use this thread to talk about the familiars we have met

How are they different

How are they the same

[PB684]

Do you think there is any significance to the fact that Alizon's familiar was female where all the others were male (at least that was how I perceived them)?

Paula

[meg820]

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PB684 wrote:

Do you think there is any significance to the fact that Alizon's familiar was female where all the others were male (at least that was how I perceived them)?

Paula

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I'm not sure if there's any significance, but I could guess that maybe Alizon's familiar was female in the hopes that she would be more receptive to her abilities. Even when her Mam was actively practicing she was very receptive to it, but Alizon had only ever seen the ability as something that would hurt her and her family. Just my two cents.

Meghan

[dhaupt]

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meg820 wrote:

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PB684 wrote:

Do you think there is any significance to the fact that Alizon's familiar was female where all the others were male (at least that was how I perceived them)?

Paula

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I'm not sure if there's any significance, but I could guess that maybe Alizon's familiar was female in the hopes that she would be more receptive to her abilities. Even when her Mam was actively practicing she was very receptive to it, but Alizon had only ever seen the ability as something that would hurt her and her family. Just my two cents.

Meghan

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Hmm, ladies I'm not sure either and I really didn't think about it. This is a great question to ask Mary Sharratt when she visits starting Oct 18th.

[Peppermill]

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dhaupt wrote:

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meg820 wrote:

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PB684 wrote:

Do you think there is any significance to the fact that Alizon's familiar was female where all the others were male (at least that was how I perceived them)?

Paula

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I'm not sure if there's any significance, but I could guess that maybe Alizon's familiar was female in the hopes that she would be more receptive to her abilities. Even when her Mam was actively practicing she was very receptive to it, but Alizon had only ever seen the ability as something that would hurt her and her family. Just my two cents.

Meghan

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Hmm, ladies I'm not sure either and I really didn't think about it. This is a great question to ask Mary Sharratt when she visits starting Oct 18th.

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As I was working through words today, I did come across this passage, which I had not remembered:

pp. 22-23: "I made myself remember my own grand-dad, the light in his eyes. When I tossed in the throes of some ague, he'd only to lay his hand upon my brow and chant a rhyme under his breath for the fever to ease.  Had he a familiar?  Following my memory back as far as it would go, I recalled the spotted bitch that seemed to follow him everywhere, yet the animal had never drawn close enough so that Mam or I could touch it."

[PB684]

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Peppermill wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

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meg820 wrote:

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PB684 wrote:

Do you think there is any significance to the fact that Alizon's familiar was female where all the others were male (at least that was how I perceived them)?

Paula

---

I'm not sure if there's any significance, but I could guess that maybe Alizon's familiar was female in the hopes that she would be more receptive to her abilities. Even when her Mam was actively practicing she was very receptive to it, but Alizon had only ever seen the ability as something that would hurt her and her family. Just my two cents.

Meghan

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Hmm, ladies I'm not sure either and I really didn't think about it. This is a great question to ask Mary Sharratt when she visits starting Oct 18th.

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As I was working through words today, I did come across this passage, which I had not remembered:

pp. 22-23: "I made myself remember my own grand-dad, the light in his eyes. When I tossed in the throes of some ague, he'd only to lay his hand upon my brow and chant a rhyme under his breath for the fever to ease.  Had he a familiar?  Following my memory back as far as it would go, I recalled the spotted bitch that seemed to follow him everywhere, yet the animal had never drawn close enough so that Mam or I could touch it."

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Interesting! I didn't recall that passage and since I no longer have the book I couldn't go back and check. Thanks for pointing it out! I can't wait to see if Ms. Sharratt has any thoughts on this or if it was just random (which I would find hard to believe).

Paula

[meg820]

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Peppermill wrote:

As I was working through words today, I did come across this passage, which I had not remembered:

pp. 22-23: "I made myself remember my own grand-dad, the light in his eyes. When I tossed in the throes of some ague, he'd only to lay his hand upon my brow and chant a rhyme under his breath for the fever to ease.  Had he a familiar?  Following my memory back as far as it would go, I recalled the spotted bitch that seemed to follow him everywhere, yet the animal had never drawn close enough so that Mam or I could touch it."

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I forgot about that passage. Makes me wonder if Alizon's familiar was the same one her granddad had. If so that would defintely show that their family had the power. I can't wait to hear what the author has to say about this.

[PB684]

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meg820 wrote:

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Peppermill wrote:

As I was working through words today, I did come across this passage, which I had not remembered:

pp. 22-23: "I made myself remember my own grand-dad, the light in his eyes. When I tossed in the throes of some ague, he'd only to lay his hand upon my brow and chant a rhyme under his breath for the fever to ease.  Had he a familiar?  Following my memory back as far as it would go, I recalled the spotted bitch that seemed to follow him everywhere, yet the animal had never drawn close enough so that Mam or I could touch it."

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I forgot about that passage. Makes me wonder if Alizon's familiar was the same one her granddad had. If so that would defintely show that their family had the power. I can't wait to hear what the author has to say about this.

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I had that same thought last night after I read Pepper's post. It reminded me of the dog/familiar in The Physick Book of Deliverance Dane that kept appearing for each generation of the family!

Paula

[meg820]

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PB684 wrote:

I had that same thought last night after I read Pepper's post. It reminded me of the dog/familiar in The Physick Book of Deliverance Dane that kept appearing for each generation of the family!

Paula

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Paula,

I loved that book! I bet if we were to look at other books we might see a theme here of familiars remaining within a family.

Meghan

[ReadingPatti]

dhaupt, They come in different forms. Some are male and some are female. Some come as animals and some in different. If I remember right Tibb came differently to Bess.

I am not sure that it makes any difference how they came. They came. I think that Tibb came to help and the others also came to help. But each person had to decide for themselve to listen to the advice or not.

I think this could be related to how we listen to Lord or our own guardian angels. That inner voice that we each have inside us. It tell us or helps us make our decisions. They can guide us to the right one but ulitmately it is up to us alone to make the right one.

Just my thoughts.

I did like this book. I liked how things have changed so much over the years. During the time of the book, you have to been very careful not do something different or act differently for fear of being accused of been a witch. The religious leaders were very stricted and you had to toe the line or be subject to their judgement.

Looking to talk more about this book.

ReadingPatti

[dhaupt]

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Peppermill wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

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meg820 wrote:

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PB684 wrote:

Do you think there is any significance to the fact that Alizon's familiar was female where all the others were male (at least that was how I perceived them)?

Paula

---

I'm not sure if there's any significance, but I could guess that maybe Alizon's familiar was female in the hopes that she would be more receptive to her abilities. Even when her Mam was actively practicing she was very receptive to it, but Alizon had only ever seen the ability as something that would hurt her and her family. Just my two cents.

Meghan

---

Hmm, ladies I'm not sure either and I really didn't think about it. This is a great question to ask Mary Sharratt when she visits starting Oct 18th.

---

As I was working through words today, I did come across this passage, which I had not remembered:

pp. 22-23: "I made myself remember my own grand-dad, the light in his eyes. When I tossed in the throes of some ague, he'd only to lay his hand upon my brow and chant a rhyme under his breath for the fever to ease.  Had he a familiar?  Following my memory back as far as it would go, I recalled the spotted bitch that seemed to follow him everywhere, yet the animal had never drawn close enough so that Mam or I could touch it."

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Thanks Pepper, I do remember the passage, but I forgot that grand dad's familiar was female.

[Mary_Sharratt]

Good question, Debbie!

Emma Wilby's scholarly study, Cunningfolk and Familiar Spirits, was one of my main sources as I wrote this along with the primary source, Thomas Potts's The Wonderfull Discoverie of Witches in the Countie of Lancaster, the official transcripts of the 1612 Pendle Witch Trials.

The trial transcripts list four familiars, who all appear to be male. Mother Demdike's Tibb, Chattox's Fancy, Elizabeth Device's Ball, and James Device's Dandy.

Wilby's materials, generally gleaned from similar confessions and trial transcripts, state that familiars could be of either gender but were generally the opposite gender to the human practitioner. That means a cunning woman would usually have a male familiar and a cunning man would usually have a female familiar. That's why I had Bess's grandfather's familiar appear as a female dog. However, this was not always the case. Jamie's familiar was male, as his name Dandy proves.

I did like the idea of the grandfather's familiar reappearing to Alizon and of her familiar being a bitch, something she views with awe and dread, as it represents also something in herself, some raw female power, that she cannot face. She also first thinks she is meeting Chattox's familiar and all the parts of herself she can't bear to face, she projects upon Chattox. Only when she recognizes the powers within herself, can she apologize and reconcile with Chattox.  

[dhaupt]

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Mary_Sharratt wrote:

Good question, Debbie!

Emma Wilby's scholarly study, Cunningfolk and Familiar Spirits, was one of my main sources as I wrote this along with the primary source, Thomas Potts's The Wonderfull Discoverie of Witches in the Countie of Lancaster, the official transcripts of the 1612 Pendle Witch Trials.

The trial transcripts list four familiars, who all appear to be male. Mother Demdike's Tibb, Chattox's Fancy, Elizabeth Device's Ball, and James Device's Dandy.

Wilby's materials, generally gleaned from similar confessions and trial transcripts, state that familiars could be of either gender but were generally the opposite gender to the human practitioner. That means a cunning woman would usually have a male familiar and a cunning man would usually have a female familiar. That's why I had Bess's grandfather's familiar appear as a female dog. However, this was not always the case. Jamie's familiar was male, as his name Dandy proves.

I did like the idea of the grandfather's familiar reappearing to Alizon and of her familiar being a bitch, something she views with awe and dread, as it represents also something in herself, some raw female power, that she cannot face. She also first thinks she is meeting Chattox's familiar and all the parts of herself she can't bear to face, she projects upon Chattox. Only when she recognizes the powers within herself, can she apologize and reconcile with Chattox.  

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Thanks Mary for the insight into the familiars and where you learned about them. The title of one of the books seems strangely titled "The Wonderfull Discoverie of Witches in the Countie of Lancaster   I know Thomas Potts was the court clerk of the Lancaster Assizes. why would he put the word wonderfull in the title, did it mean something different in the 17th century

[Peppermill]

I know I couldn't name all the familiars and their human companion, but I just noted this one for Anne:

p. 125 "Her eyes hardened as they followed the crow winging away in the direction Robert had fled.  The bird could only be Fancy, I thought, Anne's familiar rushing off to do her grisly bidding."

Is this our first introduction to Anne's familiar Fancy?  Is Fancy always a crow?

Pepper

[Mary_Sharratt]

Hi Debbie,

I think "wonderfull" in this context meant awful or terrible. A wonder was some supernatural thing that could strike you dead!

Mary

Thanks Mary for the insight into the familiars and where you learned about them. The title of one of the books seems strangely titled "The Wonderfull Discoverie of Witches in the Countie of Lancaster   I know Thomas Potts was the court clerk of the Lancaster Assizes. why would he put the word wonderfull in the title, did it mean something different in the 17th century

[dhaupt]

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Mary_Sharratt wrote:

Hi Debbie,

I think "wonderfull" in this context meant awful or terrible. A wonder was some supernatural thing that could strike you dead!

Mary

Thanks Mary for the insight into the familiars and where you learned about them. The title of one of the books seems strangely titled "The Wonderfull Discoverie of Witches in the Countie of Lancaster   I know Thomas Potts was the court clerk of the Lancaster Assizes. why would he put the word wonderfull in the title, did it mean something different in the 17th century

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Ah, thanks Mary now it makes perfect sense.