I've finished Bereft and I want to spill spoilers

[dhaupt]

Okay Okay

I know several of you have wanted a tell all thread so here's your chance to get things off your chest

[thewanderingjew]

Not sure if this is a spoiler, but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the relationship between Sadie and Quinn. Is it brother/sisterly? Is it parent/child? Or, is it something a little bit incestuous?

I felt that it was a bit parent/child but also that she filled the empty space and became his little sister again and he, her brother. The thing that concerned me was their "spooning" in the bed. Was that simply offering each other emotional comfort, like a parent and a child or was it more? When they go off, do they go off and become brother and sister, parent and child, something else entirely as time passes? What would their relationship turn into as time passed and she grew up?

[dhaupt]

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thewanderingjew wrote:

Not sure if this is a spoiler, but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the relationship between Sadie and Quinn. Is it brother/sisterly? Is it parent/child? Or, is it something a little bit incestuous?

I felt that it was a bit parent/child but also that she filled the empty space and became his little sister again and he, her brother. The thing that concerned me was their "spooning" in the bed. Was that simply offering each other emotional comfort, like a parent and a child or was it more? When they go off, do they go off and become brother and sister, parent and child, something else entirely as time passes? What would their relationship turn into as time passed and she grew up?

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please never let me around a good question before my coffee 

I'm not sure what the relationship is, not brother and sister, and not parent and child.

I think in the beginning it's only out of necessity that they're together and the more they find out about each other the closer they become.

At the end when they talk about what to do, Sadie says "well you're like a brother".

I think it would be really hard to put a label on this relationship.

Sorry for my earlier faux pas 

[optic_i]

The theme throughout Bereft to me was abandonment. The abandoned gold mines where people could fall through and never be seen again, created a surreal landscape of people lost, and fit the times perfectly between the plague and the war. Everyone lost someone.

When Sadie appeared at Quinn’s campsite for the first time, I wasn’t sure if she was real or one of Quinn’s hallucinations. He had just visited his dying mother and his sister’s grave. On page 70, Quinn remembers stories of children in Europe after the war, and he suspected such mythical children were best kept at a distance. Because Sadie was the same age as Sarah when she died, I thought she might be some type of apparition or spiritual guide.

The similarities between Sadie’s and Quinn’s lives and losses also made me think that Sadie may not be real.

Other similarities were:

Quinn’s mother is dying of the plague, Sadie’s mother died of the plague;

Quinn’s father abandoned Quinn in his mind when Sarah died, Sadie’s father abandoned the family before she was born;

Quinn’s sister is dead and Quinn has no hope of her return, Sadie’s brother has not been heard from for two years and is presumed dead, but she does have hope;

Sadie and Quinn are both hunted and tormented by the same man, Robert Dalton.

[optic_i]

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thewanderingjew wrote:

Not sure if this is a spoiler, but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the relationship between Sadie and Quinn. Is it brother/sisterly? Is it parent/child? Or, is it something a little bit incestuous?

I felt that it was a bit parent/child but also that she filled the empty space and became his little sister again and he, her brother. The thing that concerned me was their "spooning" in the bed. Was that simply offering each other emotional comfort, like a parent and a child or was it more? When they go off, do they go off and become brother and sister, parent and child, something else entirely as time passes? What would their relationship turn into as time passed and she grew up?

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 TJW, that's a good question. What would the relationship be between Sadie & Quinn after they left together. I remember Chris saying that Quinn was stunted and hasn't matured beyond the event of his sisters murder. So perhaps Quinn & Sadie would have a brother sister like relationship. 

Optic 

[writerfire]

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optic_i wrote:

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thewanderingjew wrote:

Not sure if this is a spoiler, but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the relationship between Sadie and Quinn. Is it brother/sisterly? Is it parent/child? Or, is it something a little bit incestuous?

I felt that it was a bit parent/child but also that she filled the empty space and became his little sister again and he, her brother. The thing that concerned me was their "spooning" in the bed. Was that simply offering each other emotional comfort, like a parent and a child or was it more? When they go off, do they go off and become brother and sister, parent and child, something else entirely as time passes? What would their relationship turn into as time passed and she grew up?

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 TJW, that's a good question. What would the relationship be between Sadie & Quinn after they left together. I remember Chris saying that Quinn was stunted and hasn't matured beyond the event of his sisters murder. So perhaps Quinn & Sadie would have a brother sister like relationship. 

Optic 

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 Personally I thought it was a little both.  That Sadie reminded Quinn of his sister.  That it was a little parent/brother protective thing.

[pen21]

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thewanderingjew wrote:

Not sure if this is a spoiler, but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the relationship between Sadie and Quinn. Is it brother/sisterly? Is it parent/child? Or, is it something a little bit incestuous?

I felt that it was a bit parent/child but also that she filled the empty space and became his little sister again and he, her brother. The thing that concerned me was their "spooning" in the bed. Was that simply offering each other emotional comfort, like a parent and a child or was it more? When they go off, do they go off and become brother and sister, parent and child, something else entirely as time passes? What would their relationship turn into as time passed and she grew up?

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That is a good question. I think right now it is brother and sister. But I like what Deb said they are together because of necessity. What was happening drove them together. I am not sure how their relationship might change if they stay together over the years. Quinn seems very childlike to me for his age. Like he is stuck back at 16 when his sister died.

[christopherw]

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thewanderingjew wrote:

Not sure if this is a spoiler, but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the relationship between Sadie and Quinn. Is it brother/sisterly? Is it parent/child? Or, is it something a little bit incestuous?

I felt that it was a bit parent/child but also that she filled the empty space and became his little sister again and he, her brother. The thing that concerned me was their "spooning" in the bed. Was that simply offering each other emotional comfort, like a parent and a child or was it more? When they go off, do they go off and become brother and sister, parent and child, something else entirely as time passes? What would their relationship turn into as time passed and she grew up?

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You're not the only person to wonder what might become of Sadie and Quinn. There is a possibility of news of them in my next novel, which is called (at this stage) 'Cairo'. Assuming I can get my next novel finished and anyone wants to publish it!

[dhaupt]

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christopherw wrote:

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thewanderingjew wrote:

Not sure if this is a spoiler, but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the relationship between Sadie and Quinn. Is it brother/sisterly? Is it parent/child? Or, is it something a little bit incestuous?

I felt that it was a bit parent/child but also that she filled the empty space and became his little sister again and he, her brother. The thing that concerned me was their "spooning" in the bed. Was that simply offering each other emotional comfort, like a parent and a child or was it more? When they go off, do they go off and become brother and sister, parent and child, something else entirely as time passes? What would their relationship turn into as time passed and she grew up?

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You're not the only person to wonder what might become of Sadie and Quinn. There is a possibility of news of them in my next novel, which is called (at this stage) 'Cairo'. Assuming I can get my next novel finished and anyone wants to publish it!

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Oh Chris, it would be a terrible thing to quiet a voice such as yours, my fingers and toes are crossed. You appeal to such a broad range of readers and your narrative and characters are a thing of true beauty.

[thewanderingjew]

I think another theme of the book is about secrets and how a lack of information can cause great misunderstandings which perpetuate themselves and assume the mantle of truth, when they really bear no resemblance to it.

We see evidence of this happening today, all the time. Just think about the Zimmerman/Martin case. What we first thought was the whole truth has turned out to have been made up out of whole cloth. We have yet to find out the whole story because facts were deliberately hidden from view.

Does anyone remember the Richard Jewel case of the Atlanta Olympics? He was completely innocent, actually a hero, but he was assumed guilty first, assumed to be the bomber and put through the ringer. His life was never the same. His name would always be attached to that event.

It is hard, once the wrong information is out there, to reverse it. Everyone believed that Quinn was the murderer. The quasi-witnesses proved it to them. Goebbels said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

In other words, "A lie told often enough becomes the truth." I read that those chilling words were spoken by Vladimer Lenin, a Russian Communist revloutionary and the father of the Soviet Union.

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optic_i wrote:

The theme throughout Bereft to me was abandonment. The abandoned gold mines where people could fall through and never be seen again, created a surreal landscape of people lost, and fit the times perfectly between the plague and the war. Everyone lost someone....

[thewanderingjew]

I don't think you will have a problem. This one was really good, an absolute page turner with no boring or tedious moments.Truthfully, I could hardly put it down to sleep!

I posted this review on Goodreads:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/list/2309191

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christopherw wrote:

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edited by thewanderingjew:

....You're not the only person to wonder what might become of Sadie and Quinn. There is a possibility of news of them in my next novel, which is called (at this stage) 'Cairo'. Assuming I can get my next novel finished and anyone wants to publish it!

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[dhaupt]

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thewanderingjew wrote:

I think another theme of the book is about secrets and how a lack of information can cause great misunderstandings which perpetuate themselves and assume the mantle of truth, when they really bear no resemblance to it.

We see evidence of this happening today, all the time. Just think about the Zimmerman/Martin case. What we first thought was the whole truth has turned out to have been made up out of whole cloth. We have yet to find out the whole story because facts were deliberately hidden from view.

Does anyone remember the Richard Jewel case of the Atlanta Olympics? He was completely innocent, actually a hero, but he was assumed guilty first, assumed to be the bomber and put through the ringer. His life was never the same. His name would always be attached to that event.

It is hard, once the wrong information is out there, to reverse it. Everyone believed that Quinn was the murderer. The quasi-witnesses proved it to them. Goebbels said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

In other words, "A lie told often enough becomes the truth." I read that those chilling words were spoken by Vladimer Lenin, a Russian Communist revloutionary and the father of the Soviet Union.

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optic_i wrote:

The theme throughout Bereft to me was abandonment. The abandoned gold mines where people could fall through and never be seen again, created a surreal landscape of people lost, and fit the times perfectly between the plague and the war. Everyone lost someone....

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Great points TWJ, and sometimes we don't have to do anything at all to fall victim to this, like identity theft. I know people who years after setting everything straight still have problems. Plus once you're decared dead by the Government, it's hard to proove you're still alive, I've unfortunately seen that happen too.

[optic_i]

Hi Deb, I wasn't around for first look, I wish I was !  Sounds like everyone really enjoyed it. The fixed threads are difficult for me. For example I wanted to reply to Ginger's very good question about" who are the others " in her last post. My answer would have been the other girls like Sarah that Sadie has witnessed Dalton murder. The other men who were lost and hiding in the hill's where Quinn and Sadie are hiding. He murdered many they are the angels or spirits that Sadie is referring to that she calls others. But I can't reply on that thread because it hasn't been mentioned enough to put it together in stage two of the book.  For this reason only I would have liked to have expanded answers.

I know your really trying Deb. and I appreciate it.  

[dhaupt]

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optic_i wrote:

Hi Deb, I wasn't around for first look, I wish I was !  Sounds like everyone really enjoyed it. The fixed threads are difficult for me. For example I wanted to reply to Ginger's very good question about" who are the others " in her last post. My answer would have been the other girls like Sarah that Sadie has witnessed Dalton murder. The other men who were lost and hiding in the hill's where Quinn and Sadie are hiding. He murdered many they are the angels or spirits that Sadie is referring to that she calls others. But I can't reply on that thread because it hasn't been mentioned enough to put it together in stage two of the book.  For this reason only I would have liked to have expanded answers.

I know your really trying Deb. and I appreciate it.  

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Okay, I'm a a techNO, so explain the problem optic.

For me and this was always not just since being  moderator, when I want to reply to a message i hit the reply button under the post I want to reply to. Is this not something you can do. Help me to understand and I will be more then happy to help you.

[optic_i]

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dhaupt wrote:

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optic_i wrote:

Hi Deb, I wasn't around for first look, I wish I was !  Sounds like everyone really enjoyed it. The fixed threads are difficult for me. For example I wanted to reply to Ginger's very good question about" who are the others " in her last post. My answer would have been the other girls like Sarah that Sadie has witnessed Dalton murder. The other men who were lost and hiding in the hill's where Quinn and Sadie are hiding. He murdered many they are the angels or spirits that Sadie is referring to that she calls others. But I can't reply on that thread because it hasn't been mentioned enough to put it together in stage two of the book.  For this reason only I would have liked to have expanded answers.

I know your really trying Deb. and I appreciate it.  

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Okay, I'm a a techNO, so explain the problem optic.

For me and this was always not just since being  moderator, when I want to reply to a message i hit the reply button under the post I want to reply to. Is this not something you can do. Help me to understand and I will be more then happy to help you.

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Qiute simply Deb, This is why I did reply to the spoiler thread instead. Week 2 only goes as far as part #2 in the book, For my answer I would have included Alice Gunn, on page 155 of Part #3 Sadie tells Quinn she has a piece of Alice's dress. and says she knows Dalton Killed her she didn't drown. When I think in the context of the story I would have to include Alice Gunn as one of the other's Sadie was referring to. So I couldn't have said the answer with a reply in week #2  that limits the answers to part2 only.  

[dhaupt]

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optic_i wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

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optic_i wrote:

Hi Deb, I wasn't around for first look, I wish I was !  Sounds like everyone really enjoyed it. The fixed threads are difficult for me. For example I wanted to reply to Ginger's very good question about" who are the others " in her last post. My answer would have been the other girls like Sarah that Sadie has witnessed Dalton murder. The other men who were lost and hiding in the hill's where Quinn and Sadie are hiding. He murdered many they are the angels or spirits that Sadie is referring to that she calls others. But I can't reply on that thread because it hasn't been mentioned enough to put it together in stage two of the book.  For this reason only I would have liked to have expanded answers.

I know your really trying Deb. and I appreciate it.  

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Okay, I'm a a techNO, so explain the problem optic.

For me and this was always not just since being  moderator, when I want to reply to a message i hit the reply button under the post I want to reply to. Is this not something you can do. Help me to understand and I will be more then happy to help you.

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Qiute simply Deb, This is why I did reply to the spoiler thread instead. Week 2 only goes as far as part #2 in the book, For my answer I would have included Alice Gunn, on page 155 of Part #3 Sadie tells Quinn she has a piece of Alice's dress. and says she knows Dalton Killed her she didn't drown. When I think in the context of the story I would have to include Alice Gunn as one of the other's Sadie was referring to. So I couldn't have said the answer with a reply in week #2  that limits the answers to part2 only.  

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gotcha, well you did the right thing. I'm the one who picks what to read for each week and so yes you would have spilled spoilers on the other thread, this is the correct thread to use.

that's why I always try to provide a place for people to go who have read the whole novel.

And of course on this thread you can bring up anything you want.

and yes Alice's story is where I first knew who the killer really was, before I had my suspicions.

[optic_i]

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dhaupt wrote:

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optic_i wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

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optic_i wrote:

Hi Deb, I wasn't around for first look, I wish I was !  Sounds like everyone really enjoyed it. The fixed threads are difficult for me. For example I wanted to reply to Ginger's very good question about" who are the others " in her last post. My answer would have been the other girls like Sarah that Sadie has witnessed Dalton murder. The other men who were lost and hiding in the hill's where Quinn and Sadie are hiding. He murdered many they are the angels or spirits that Sadie is referring to that she calls others. But I can't reply on that thread because it hasn't been mentioned enough to put it together in stage two of the book.  For this reason only I would have liked to have expanded answers.

I know your really trying Deb. and I appreciate it.  

---

Okay, I'm a a techNO, so explain the problem optic.

For me and this was always not just since being  moderator, when I want to reply to a message i hit the reply button under the post I want to reply to. Is this not something you can do. Help me to understand and I will be more then happy to help you.

---

Quite simply Deb, This is why I did reply to the spoiler thread instead. Week 2 only goes as far as part #2 in the book, For my answer I would have included Alice Gunn, on page 155 of Part #3 Sadie tells Quinn she has a piece of Alice's dress. and says she knows Dalton Killed her she didn't drown. When I think in the context of the story I would have to include Alice Gunn as one of the other's Sadie was referring to. So I couldn't have said the answer with a reply in week #2  that limits the answers to part2 only.  

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gotcha, well you did the right thing. I'm the one who picks what to read for each week and so yes you would have spilled spoilers on the other thread, this is the correct thread to use.

That's why I always try to provide a place for people to go who have read the whole novel.

And of course on this thread you can bring up anything you want.

and yes Alice's story is where I first knew who the killer really was, before I had my suspicions.

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Yes that was when I thought Dalton was a serial killer and psychopath.

[optic_i]

So much of Bereft includes illusions. I was wondering about Sadie, and did she have some physic training or ability? She told Quinn that she prayed him here and she brought him here. While in London, Quinn generates some attention from Mrs. Crenshaw, the manager of the seance sisters. Also, Marguerite, one of the sisters, risks giving Quinn a message in a note and places it in his pocket where he finds it later. In the note, Quinn is asked to "save her", and Quinn hasn't even met Sadie yet. Sadie also tells Quinn that he must kill Dalton for the others, not just to avenge Sara's death.

Some of this information, Sadie has gotten from breaking into homes and taking things, and by spying and eavesdropping. But, there seems to be more to it.

[pen21]

I agree. This is a great book. I couldn't stop reading it.

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thewanderingjew wrote:

I don't think you will have a problem. This one was really good, an absolute page turner with no boring or tedious moments.Truthfully, I could hardly put it down to sleep!

I posted this review on Goodreads:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/list/2309191

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christopherw wrote:

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edited by thewanderingjew:

....You're not the only person to wonder what might become of Sadie and Quinn. There is a possibility of news of them in my next novel, which is called (at this stage) 'Cairo'. Assuming I can get my next novel finished and anyone wants to publish it!

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[pen21]

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optic_i wrote:

So much of Bereft includes illusions. I was wondering about Sadie, and did she have some physic training or ability? She told Quinn that she prayed him here and she brought him here. While in London, Quinn generates some attention from Mrs. Crenshaw, the manager of the seance sisters. Also, Marguerite, one of the sisters, risks giving Quinn a message in a note and places it in his pocket where he finds it later. In the note, Quinn is asked to "save her", and Quinn hasn't even met Sadie yet. Sadie also tells Quinn that he must kill Dalton for the others, not just to avenge Sara's death.

Some of this information, Sadie has gotten from breaking into homes and taking things, and by spying and eavesdropping. But, there seems to be more to it.

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I often thought was Sadie an illusion for Sarah. Which did make me wonder about Quinn's sanity or his guilt for leaving and not bringing his uncle to justice. The book really kept me wondering how the different pieces were going to come together.