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Re: Week 1 Discussion for Finding Jack by Gareth Crocker
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05-10-2011 12:11 AM - edited 05-10-2011 12:20 AM
A_G_D wrote:I definitely understand your point Pepper and I can see how certain things just seem too improbable but to jump into Gareth's defense, this IS is a very unusual story..I should mention that I had the same feeling as you towards the end and I am not going to say when exactly because I don't want to write any spoilers but it's regarding Jack. I paid, however, very little attention to it because how often does it happen for someone to lose their family in a plane accident, enroll in the army hoping to die in the war, have such a strong bond with a dog and go through everything that Fletcher and Jack went through?
Andreea -- I don't think Gareth needs defending. He has written a powerfully emotional novel on an interesting subject that needed bringing to public attention. That does not / should not immunize a new, young writer (or a long established one) from scrutiny. But, I think my comments are directed to us as readers just as much as they are to Gareth. How do we read? What do we expect when we read? Why? Since I never studied literature, except a course or two, these are questions towards which members of my face-to-face book group, participants on these boards and others, and moderators have helped raise my awareness.
Re: Week 1 Discussion for Finding Jack by Gareth Crocker
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05-10-2011 08:42 AM
Pepper, you are absolutely right! As a matter of fact I think being under scrutinity, especially for young writers, raises awareness the same way as being constructively criticized impoves, I think, your writing abilities. And yes, it is interesting how readers intepret things differently. Like I mentioned in my previous comment, there was something else that triggered in me the same feeling that you mentioned about the accident and the chances of Fletcher surviving both the accident and the suicide attempt. But I will let you finish the novel and then we can comment about it. I am actually curious to get your opinion on it! ![]()
"Books are the quitest and most constant of friends; they are the most accesible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." -Charles Eliot
Re: Week 1 Discussion for Finding Jack by Gareth Crocker
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05-10-2011 09:22 AM
Peppermill wrote:As you say, Debbie, certainly the plane crash set up conditions for the protagonist to enlist. Also, as Gareth says, it is not unusual for maiden voyages to include a number of honored guests, including families of those being courted, from politicians to investors to media. But, for a plane of this scope to explode AND to have survivors; then for one of those survivors to jump from the sixth floor and be saved from a fall onto a truck? Now, those might have both been plausible if the heavy improbabilities ended there or even slowed down for the remainder of the stories. That's where I got into trouble with the story-telling.
And I can see your point too and I think we'll take this to the whole novel discussion thread to continue my line of thoughts.
Re: Week 1 Discussion for Finding Jack by Gareth Crocker
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05-11-2011 10:47 PM
Chapters 39-40.
The story of Craig Fallow was one of the saddest ones in Finding Jack for me -- a young life just seemingly futilely snuffed out.
In this sequence, Gareth introduces us to Craig and then within a couple of chapters tells his story. He uses a similar technique for Bruno, Matthew and even Lee and Tay and Shayna. This is in contrast to Mitchell, Rogan, and Marvin, who were developed as characters over the course of the novel. Did this work for you? I wanted to have been introduced to Craig earlier and had a greater gap before his demise, but maybe what was done reflected the way these things run in war? Are we told what happens to Arnold after he shot Jack? I thought we were, but I don't find it again tonight. Did you have as much trouble as I did with the considerable number of minor characters and the switching back and forth between first and last names? The switching seemed appropriate for what was being written, but I found it almost as daunting as a Russian novel.
lol!
Re: Week 1 Discussion for Finding Jack by Gareth Crocker
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05-12-2011 09:40 AM
Peppermill wrote:Chapters 39-40.
The story of Craig Fallow was one of the saddest ones in Finding Jack for me -- a young life just seemingly futilely snuffed out.
In this sequence, Gareth introduces us to Craig and then within a couple of chapters tells his story. He uses a similar technique for Bruno, Matthew and even Lee and Tay and Shayna. This is in contrast to Mitchell, Rogan, and Marvin, who were developed as characters over the course of the novel. Did this work for you? I wanted to have been introduced to Craig earlier and had a greater gap before his demise, but maybe what was done reflected the way these things run in war? Are we told what happens to Arnold after he shot Jack? I thought we were, but I don't find it again tonight. Did you have as much trouble as I did with the considerable number of minor characters and the switching back and forth between first and last names? The switching seemed appropriate for what was being written, but I found it almost as daunting as a Russian novel.
lol!
Hi Pepper, I don't have the book with me but I'm pretty sure we hear about Arnold again and if I had to guess I think it was after the sugery when the wall went up, wasn't that a great part, but I will check it out.
I don't think I could have stood to find out about Craig earlier, for me it's really hard to loose characters after they've been introduced and you get to like them and mysteries and times of war are the worst because I'm always afraid to turn the next page and find out that the enemy or villian killed them off, so I liked that we only get a cameo like with Matthew too.
The switching around didn't bother me at all, it was as fast paced as the story was at that time and fit.
Re: Week 1 Discussion for Finding Jack by Gareth Crocker
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05-12-2011 09:55 AM
Pepper wrote:
In this sequence, Gareth introduces us to Craig and then within a couple of chapters tells his story. He uses a similar technique for Bruno, Matthew and even Lee and Tay and Shayna. This is in contrast to Mitchell, Rogan, and Marvin, who were developed as characters over the course of the novel. Did this work for you? I wanted to have been introduced to Craig earlier and had a greater gap before his demise, but maybe what was done reflected the way these things run in war? Are we told what happens to Arnold after he shot Jack? I thought we were, but I don't find it again tonight. Did you have as much trouble as I did with the considerable number of minor characters and the switching back and forth between first and last names? The switching seemed appropriate for what was being written, but I found it almost as daunting as a Russian novel.
lol!
Pepper, like Debbie, I didn't really have any problems with the names of the characters. Maybe only a few times I had to go back and doublecheck a name but it didn't seem to intervene with the flow of the story. As for the minor characters, there were indeed quite a few and as much as we want to get a glimpse into the life of every single one of them, I think it would've overwhelmed the main subject of the story. Craig's story touched me as well and as I mentioned before I am glad that Fletcher decided to write back to his family and tell them how brave and admired Craig was in war. What bothers me is, why, if they knew what his reasons were (or maybe they didn't but at least his fiancee should've known) did they let him enrol?? Did they expect him to prove something to them?? As for Arnold, what I remember about him is his soft side that we learn about during Jack's battle for survival. He is depressed and doesn't talk much and even starts crying when Fletcher goes to talk to him. He is obviously under a lot of stress and he doesn't know how to disobey orders which is why he shots Jack in the first place. I don't think he gets mentioned after those scenes but I might be wrong...
"Books are the quitest and most constant of friends; they are the most accesible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." -Charles Eliot
Re: Week 1 Discussion for Finding Jack by Gareth Crocker
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05-12-2011 10:52 AM
I know that part of the thought on character development and introduction and disappearance that I am doing in reading Finding Jack is in compare and contrast with Hardy's Jude the Obscure , which I have been reading at the same time for another discussion. It has characters that disappear and then reappear much later, somewhat like Marvin in our text. One of its key characters that critics have often accused Hardy of making over-the-top in an explosive scene near the end of the novel is a young boy called "Father Time." Strangely, having lived so many reports of violence in the media in recent years, readers of our day possibly find him more "realistic" than did readers of Hardy's time!
I think one of the introductions that particularly caught my attention in Finding Jack was a very minor character at the very, very end -- the caretaker at Hampton Lane. But, that discussion should go to the last week, so I shall delay saying why until then. But, that was also part of what triggered my thinking about the other characters and how they were introduced and exited.