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dhaupt
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


A_G_D wrote:


I am actually on the other side of the fence here :smileyhappy: since I don't have any kids yet..But I remember fighting with my mom a lot..Boy did we fight!! :smileyhappy: I think it's a normal thing for teenagers..I recently read a book "The female brain".I have to admit I did not finish it but I read most of it and it was discussing different stages that the female brain goes through and of course a big part of the transformations take place when we are teenagers. Those hormones can be reaaaaally tricky. I'm just happy it's over. Maybe what I know now it will help me in my future relationships with my kids.



You know Andreea, you touched on something that is discussed a lot it seems to want to be younger and I only know that I wouldn't go back to being a teenager for any amount of money. I spent most of my teen years disgusted with myself, my family, my world. I was confused about boys, and life in general and my mom and dad had divorced when I was 15 and I lived with my day and at the time my mom and I didn't have a good relationship, so I really didn't have any great role models to look up to, ask questions of etc...

 

Thanks for sharing Andreea

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dhaupt
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


dhaupt wrote:

Mountain_Muse wrote:



Oops:smileysurprised: sorry!  I had been chewing on that one.

 

 It had been bothering me that everyone seems to be talking AT each other.  Not a good situation -- any time.  I know we all go into a conversation with pre-conceptions and with pre-scripted ideas on how we think the conversation should go or what is right or wrong,  Even more important, people tend to hear what they WANT to hear.  The more desperate they are to hear the answer they want, the more likely it is that they will "hear" what they most want and "need" to hear.


 

 Input please.

 

Mtn Muse

 

 



The talking at each other got to me too Muse, I think it had a lot to do with the political situation caused by this and when people are emotional they tend to think and speak from their heart rather than from their head.

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A_G_D
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder

A_G_D wrote:


I am actually on the other side of the fence here :smileyhappy: since I don't have any kids yet..But I remember fighting with my mom a lot..Boy did we fight!! :smileyhappy: I think it's a normal thing for teenagers..I recently read a book "The female brain".I have to admit I did not finish it but I read most of it and it was discussing different stages that the female brain goes through and of course a big part of the transformations take place when we are teenagers. Those hormones can be reaaaaally tricky. I'm just happy it's over. Maybe what I know now it will help me in my future relationships with my kids.



You know Andreea, you touched on something that is discussed a lot it seems to want to be younger and I only know that I wouldn't go back to being a teenager for any amount of money. I spent most of my teen years disgusted with myself, my family, my world. I was confused about boys, and life in general and my mom and dad had divorced when I was 15 and I lived with my day and at the time my mom and I didn't have a good relationship, so I really didn't have any great role models to look up to, ask questions of etc...

 

Thanks for sharing Andreea


Yes, I know what you mean..I didn't exactly have it too easy myself either although I think my younger sister was affected more than me...So I definitely wouldn't go back to being a teenager. It had its good parts but even though my parents didn't divorce until later when I was already here in the US it was not easy living at home in constant fighting. That on top of my own young teen issues. pffeeeww so happy it's over :smileyhappy:

 

On another note, I finished the book and I can't wait for next week! :smileyvery-happy:

Andreea
"Books are the quitest and most constant of friends; they are the most accesible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." -Charles Eliot
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Mountain_Muse
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


A_G_D wrote:

 


I am actually on the other side of the fence here :smileyhappy: since I don't have any kids yet..But I remember fighting with my mom a lot..Boy did we fight!! :smileyhappy: I think it's a normal thing for teenagers..I recently read a book "The female brain".I have to admit I did not finish it but I read most of it and it was discussing different stages that the female brain goes through and of course a big part of the transformations take place when we are teenagers. Those hormones can be reaaaaally tricky. I'm just happy it's over. Maybe what I know now it will help me in my future relationships with my kids.


I'm with you.  It is interesting how smart your parents get, the older you get.  lol  The boys don't do much better with their raging hormones, either.  Not too long ago our oldest called us for advice on how to handle a problem he was having with his middle son.  In spite of myself, I started laughing.  I had to apologize after I got it back in control.  He had just described his self 25 years earlier to the "T".  He was silent for a moment and then said "Oh No!  You mean it's going to get worse?"  I lost it again.  We had a great conversation on parenting and communicating with our children.

 

That aside, patterns of communication, once established in relationships, are very hard to break.  This Tammy did an excellent job of playing that card in her story line between Julieann and Tanden and between Tanden and his father.  

 

What I found interesting was the relationship that Tanden's father developed with Julieann and her brother that he never had with HIS son and it appeared to have a softness that alluded to not being there with Tanden's mother.  What was it about Julieann that she was able to break through that hard shell where those who should have meant most to Tanden weren't able to?  (Once again back to the relationships and communications or lack of.)  I went back and looked and could not find a reference to give me any incite or clue to that unique relationship.  Tammy?

 

Mtn Muse

A really good book is much like an artichoke. As you peel back each page of the of the book, you get closer and closer to the succulent heart of the story.
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


dhaupt wrote:


The talking at each other got to me too Muse, I think it had a lot to do with the political situation caused by this and when people are emotional they tend to think and speak from their heart rather than from their head.


I couldn't agree more!  No wonder Washington is such a mess!

Mtn Muse

A really good book is much like an artichoke. As you peel back each page of the of the book, you get closer and closer to the succulent heart of the story.
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder

[ Edited ]

I'm with you.  It is interesting how smart your parents get, the older you get.  lol  The boys don't do much better with their raging hormones, either.  Not too long ago our oldest called us for advice on how to handle a problem he was having with his middle son.  In spite of myself, I started laughing.  I had to apologize after I got it back in control.  He had just described his self 25 years earlier to the "T".  He was silent for a moment and then said "Oh No!  You mean it's going to get worse?"  I lost it again.  We had a great conversation on parenting and communicating with our children.

 

That aside, patterns of communication, once established in relationships, are very hard to break.  This Tammy did an excellent job of playing that card in her story line between Julieann and Tanden and between Tanden and his father.  

 

What I found interesting was the relationship that Tanden's father developed with Julieann and her brother that he never had with HIS son and it appeared to have a softness that alluded to not being there with Tanden's mother.  What was it about Julieann that she was able to break through that hard shell where those who should have meant most to Tanden weren't able to?  (Once again back to the relationships and communications or lack of.)  I went back and looked and could not find a reference to give me any incite or clue to that unique relationship.  Tammy?

 

Mtn Muse


Great comments. JulieAnn and Tandon had dated before he had left so his family was well aware of her and, as I would be if with my sons girlfriends, was used to them being around. From her having that relationship with his dad enough to go over and help him, it suggests she was liked by them and vice versa. That's why she would feel comfortable offering her help. Not to mention she felt bad for him.

And too, when you're old and alone and someone offers their kindness and help, you would probably be humbled by that (his softening) and accept...if nothing else than to have some kind of relationship with someone.

Did that help at all?

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elaine_hf
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


dhaupt wrote:

Mountain_Muse wrote:



Oops:smileysurprised: sorry!  I had been chewing on that one.

 

 It had been bothering me that everyone seems to be talking AT each other.  Not a good situation -- any time.  I know we all go into a conversation with pre-conceptions and with pre-scripted ideas on how we think the conversation should go or what is right or wrong,  Even more important, people tend to hear what they WANT to hear.  The more desperate they are to hear the answer they want, the more likely it is that they will "hear" what they most want and "need" to hear.

 

How did I hear my daughter say it to me one time during her teen years?  "You aren't listening to me and hearing what I am saying.  You are only hearing the words."   -- we survived and have a wonderful relationship now, but many times I could have swore she was speaking martian.

 

 Input please.

 

Mtn Muse 



I too remember those conversations with my teenaged daughter. We were usually too angry with each other to "hear" each other and too focused on getting out what we wanted to say to "listen" to each other. She's 31 now as some of you know, and I'm the proudest of mama's, but martian she did speak.

 

 

Speaking of crowing, this summer she's soloing with the Bach society here in St. Louis and she's performing in one Italian opera and I of course don't remember the name of it.

 

 


Debbie,

I don't think anyone would have a problem with a little crowing! I'm also from St. Louis and visit my mom and sister every few months - I'll have to see if she's performing during my next visit!!

Congrats!!!!

‎"Peculiar travel suggestions are dancing lessons from God." -Bokonon
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elaine_hf
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder

In scrolling through the comments, I notice there's a lot of discussion on the communication problems between the characters. In fact, I don't think any of them have healthy skills in that area. But what really concerns me more is how out of touch Tandon must be with the reality of the situation in that region. How he could figure that people about to lose their homes, perhaps their homestead for many generations, would be open-minded about the federal government scooping up their land is beyond me. And, on top of that, how could he NOT KNOW that JuliAnn's family would not really welcome him into their midst, representing the government, is also a mystery -  he is the physical reminder to her family that they're very probably going to lose their land. He could have politely begged off when invited, instead of selfishly accepting JuliAnn's invitation. We're not talking about teenage love here, after all.  

‎"Peculiar travel suggestions are dancing lessons from God." -Bokonon
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Mountain_Muse
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


elaine_hf wrote:

In scrolling through the comments, I notice there's a lot of discussion on the communication problems between the characters. In fact, I don't think any of them have healthy skills in that area. But what really concerns me more is how out of touch Tandon must be with the reality of the situation in that region. How he could figure that people about to lose their homes, perhaps their homestead for many generations, would be open-minded about the federal government scooping up their land is beyond me. And, on top of that, how could he NOT KNOW that JuliAnn's family would not really welcome him into their midst, representing the government, is also a mystery -  he is the physical reminder to her family that they're very probably going to lose their land. He could have politely begged off when invited, instead of selfishly accepting JuliAnn's invitation. We're not talking about teenage love here, after all.  


Dysfunctional communications and wanting things soooo bad that they put blinders on to the reality around themselves.!!

 

 At this point I think Tanden would have done anything JuliAnn asked just to spend that little bit more time with her.  I think SHE was being un-realistic expecting her family to set aside their explosive feelings and welcome back Tanden as the "old friend".  She might as well have handed out cups of nitro-glycerin at that dinner table instead of coffee.

 

Mtn Muse

 

A really good book is much like an artichoke. As you peel back each page of the of the book, you get closer and closer to the succulent heart of the story.
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dhaupt
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


elaine_hf wrote:

dhaupt wrote:

Mountain_Muse wrote:



Oops:smileysurprised: sorry!  I had been chewing on that one.

 

 It had been bothering me that everyone seems to be talking AT each other.  Not a good situation -- any time.  I know we all go into a conversation with pre-conceptions and with pre-scripted ideas on how we think the conversation should go or what is right or wrong,  Even more important, people tend to hear what they WANT to hear.  The more desperate they are to hear the answer they want, the more likely it is that they will "hear" what they most want and "need" to hear.

 

How did I hear my daughter say it to me one time during her teen years?  "You aren't listening to me and hearing what I am saying.  You are only hearing the words."   -- we survived and have a wonderful relationship now, but many times I could have swore she was speaking martian.

 

 Input please.

 

Mtn Muse 



I too remember those conversations with my teenaged daughter. We were usually too angry with each other to "hear" each other and too focused on getting out what we wanted to say to "listen" to each other. She's 31 now as some of you know, and I'm the proudest of mama's, but martian she did speak.

 

 

Speaking of crowing, this summer she's soloing with the Bach society here in St. Louis and she's performing in one Italian opera and I of course don't remember the name of it.

 

 


Debbie,

I don't think anyone would have a problem with a little crowing! I'm also from St. Louis and visit my mom and sister every few months - I'll have to see if she's performing during my next visit!!

Congrats!!!!


Ah Elaine, small world isn't it. I'll let you know.

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dhaupt
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


elaine_hf wrote:

In scrolling through the comments, I notice there's a lot of discussion on the communication problems between the characters. In fact, I don't think any of them have healthy skills in that area. But what really concerns me more is how out of touch Tandon must be with the reality of the situation in that region. How he could figure that people about to lose their homes, perhaps their homestead for many generations, would be open-minded about the federal government scooping up their land is beyond me. And, on top of that, how could he NOT KNOW that JuliAnn's family would not really welcome him into their midst, representing the government, is also a mystery -  he is the physical reminder to her family that they're very probably going to lose their land. He could have politely begged off when invited, instead of selfishly accepting JuliAnn's invitation. We're not talking about teenage love here, after all.  


Great thoughts Elaine, but I saw Tandon's actions from a totally different perspective, not  that he was out of touch but that his covictions about what was right for the ecology there in the area really spawned most of his actions.

And regarding JulieAnn, I thought he was then seeing only through his heart and believing her when she told him that her family would welcome him, separate the man Tandon from the Park Service Tandon.

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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder

I like how everyone sees things in a different way but I'm glad you said this Debbie because this is exactly the way I felt it when writing it. It's not all about the Park Service and feelings surrounding it but about the love between the characters which goes back to before the Park was ever involved. It's this love that is driving their decisions...and hurting their decisions. The story is all based on love. Love for a girls family, love of a couple, love for land, love for country. Love can lead a heart to do strange things.

 

Everyone's comments are terrific and I just love how involved you all are.

I can't wait to start Week 2!!

The Chimney Still Stands on "eStands" everywhere! :smileyhappy:

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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


dhaupt wrote:

Great thoughts Elaine, but I saw Tandon's actions from a totally different perspective, not  that he was out of touch but that his covictions about what was right for the ecology there in the area really spawned most of his actions.

And regarding JulieAnn, I thought he was then seeing only through his heart and believing her when she told him that her family would welcome him, separate the man Tandon from the Park Service Tandon.


Debbie,

 

I couldn't agree with you more.  You hit it right on.

Mtn Muse

A really good book is much like an artichoke. As you peel back each page of the of the book, you get closer and closer to the succulent heart of the story.
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elaine_hf
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


Mountain_Muse wrote:

dhaupt wrote:

Great thoughts Elaine, but I saw Tandon's actions from a totally different perspective, not  that he was out of touch but that his covictions about what was right for the ecology there in the area really spawned most of his actions.

And regarding JulieAnn, I thought he was then seeing only through his heart and believing her when she told him that her family would welcome him, separate the man Tandon from the Park Service Tandon.


Debbie,

 

I couldn't agree with you more.  You hit it right on.

Mtn Muse


I completely see where you both are coming from, and think in some ways you're right. But I don't think he's so one-dimensional; or rather, I think Tandon is more complicated than that. He has been focused on his job and his career, and completely bought into the government perspective, ignoring his own background and family/friends in the very area that he is now trying to turn into a national park. Even he had some reservations about the information he was delivering, but went with the 'party line'. While I think the local people aren't seeing the 'big picture' - and for some very valid reasons close to their home - I would still argue that Tandon isn't completely seeing the small picture. Maybe I'm just seeing it too much from the small picture side....

 

As far as JulieAnn and Tandon go, I know they're acting from the heart, but I think they forgot that the rest of the world doesn't exactly have those same rose-colored glasses on. So JulieAnn is also to blame for the bad ending to the birthday gathering. And the family wasn't quite as gracious as either had hoped. 

 

Guess I'll go slip out of my cynic's glasses now and take a nap!

‎"Peculiar travel suggestions are dancing lessons from God." -Bokonon
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Mountain_Muse
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


elaine_hf wrote:

Mountain_Muse wrote:

dhaupt wrote:

Great thoughts Elaine, but I saw Tandon's actions from a totally different perspective, not  that he was out of touch but that his covictions about what was right for the ecology there in the area really spawned most of his actions.

And regarding JulieAnn, I thought he was then seeing only through his heart and believing her when she told him that her family would welcome him, separate the man Tandon from the Park Service Tandon.


Debbie,

 

I couldn't agree with you more.  You hit it right on.

Mtn Muse


I completely see where you both are coming from, and think in some ways you're right. But I don't think he's so one-dimensional; or rather, I think Tandon is more complicated than that. He has been focused on his job and his career, and completely bought into the government perspective, ignoring his own background and family/friends in the very area that he is now trying to turn into a national park. Even he had some reservations about the information he was delivering, but went with the 'party line'. While I think the local people aren't seeing the 'big picture' - and for some very valid reasons close to their home - I would still argue that Tandon isn't completely seeing the small picture. Maybe I'm just seeing it too much from the small picture side....

 

As far as JulieAnn and Tandon go, I know they're acting from the heart, but I think they forgot that the rest of the world doesn't exactly have those same rose-colored glasses on. So JulieAnn is also to blame for the bad ending to the birthday gathering. And the family wasn't quite as gracious as either had hoped. 

 

Guess I'll go slip out of my cynic's glasses now and take a nap!


lol

 

I definitely DON't see Tanden as one dimensional in the least.  His background of growing up in the Ozarks   AND all those years of working for the National Park Service provided him with a depth of viewpoint and understanding that most people do not have the privilege of seeing from.  He understood the issues from both sides   I think Tammy did a good job of showing his torn emotions on how the conversion was affecting the people of the area, but also saw the long-range picture for both the people and the land.  

Tanden didn't turn his back on the community, he walked away without a game plan or solution because the community turned their back and let emotion and fear impede their willingness to come to the table with an open mind.  (Remember I tend to be on the rancher's side, but that doesn't change the facts).

Mtn Muse 

A really good book is much like an artichoke. As you peel back each page of the of the book, you get closer and closer to the succulent heart of the story.
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elaine_hf
Posts: 389
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


Mountain_Muse wrote:

elaine_hf wrote:

Mountain_Muse wrote:

dhaupt wrote:

Great thoughts Elaine, but I saw Tandon's actions from a totally different perspective, not  that he was out of touch but that his covictions about what was right for the ecology there in the area really spawned most of his actions.

And regarding JulieAnn, I thought he was then seeing only through his heart and believing her when she told him that her family would welcome him, separate the man Tandon from the Park Service Tandon.


Debbie,

 

I couldn't agree with you more.  You hit it right on.

Mtn Muse


I completely see where you both are coming from, and think in some ways you're right. But I don't think he's so one-dimensional; or rather, I think Tandon is more complicated than that. He has been focused on his job and his career, and completely bought into the government perspective, ignoring his own background and family/friends in the very area that he is now trying to turn into a national park. Even he had some reservations about the information he was delivering, but went with the 'party line'. While I think the local people aren't seeing the 'big picture' - and for some very valid reasons close to their home - I would still argue that Tandon isn't completely seeing the small picture. Maybe I'm just seeing it too much from the small picture side....

 

As far as JulieAnn and Tandon go, I know they're acting from the heart, but I think they forgot that the rest of the world doesn't exactly have those same rose-colored glasses on. So JulieAnn is also to blame for the bad ending to the birthday gathering. And the family wasn't quite as gracious as either had hoped. 

 

Guess I'll go slip out of my cynic's glasses now and take a nap!


lol

 

I definitely DON't see Tanden as one dimensional in the least.  His background of growing up in the Ozarks   AND all those years of working for the National Park Service provided him with a depth of viewpoint and understanding that most people do not have the privilege of seeing from.  He understood the issues from both sides   I think Tammy did a good job of showing his torn emotions on how the conversion was affecting the people of the area, but also saw the long-range picture for both the people and the land.  

Tanden didn't turn his back on the community, he walked away without a game plan or solution because the community turned their back and let emotion and fear impede their willingness to come to the table with an open mind.  (Remember I tend to be on the rancher's side, but that doesn't change the facts).

Mtn Muse 


Mtn Muse - 

Sorry, didn't mean to offend.... I just think that his focus on his advancement in his career skewed his judgment. It's a difficult place to be - I, as well as my husband and father-in-law, have worked in the oil industry my entire career. It can be contentious - even for my mother-in-law! I often find I have to step back and put myself in the 'other side's' shoes, to understand the complaints people have regarding various issues surrounding oil production and exploration. You come to see the world in shades of grey, complicating your world view but making it perhaps more humane. I think the same of the forest industry - we need the parks, but people need their homes. No good answers here...

‎"Peculiar travel suggestions are dancing lessons from God." -Bokonon
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder

[ Edited ]

Hope everyone has had a blessed weekend. I look forward to tomorrow and Week 2's new discussion questions.

(If Debbie doesn't ask, be sure to ask me where I got the river idea from! lol) :smileytongue:

 

Have a good night. See you all tomorrow!

Tammy

The Chimney Still Stands on "eStands" everywhere! :smileyhappy:

AND...I am now available for Virtual Author Visits via Skype!
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dhaupt
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder

Good morning and Happy Monday,

 

Elaine, you did not offend anyone and I'm sure I can say that for Muse.

 

I don't see Tandon as one dimensional either but a very complicated, complex man with priorities that are causing him a great deal of consciense searching.

 

I do believe that at the end of the day he thinks and believes in what he says and does.

 

so put those cynics glasses back on, what would we do without differing opinions you know us here

WE LOVE THEM

 

after all no two people read the same book, right :smileyhappy:

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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder


dhaupt wrote:

Good morning and Happy Monday,

 

Elaine, you did not offend anyone and I'm sure I can say that for Muse.

 

I don't see Tandon as one dimensional either but a very complicated, complex man with priorities that are causing him a great deal of consciense searching.

 

I do believe that at the end of the day he thinks and believes in what he says and does.

 

so put those cynics glasses back on, what would we do without differing opinions you know us here

WE LOVE THEM

 

after all no two people read the same book, right :smileyhappy:


I second this. I am really enjoying how others are seeing this book. That's what makes book clubs so fun and interesting. :smileyvery-happy:

 

Definitely true:

"after all no two people read the same book, right :smileyhappy:"

The Chimney Still Stands on "eStands" everywhere! :smileyhappy:

AND...I am now available for Virtual Author Visits via Skype!
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dhaupt
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Re: Week 1 discussion of The Chimney Still Stands by Tammy Snyder

I found out the Opera Erin is in this summer

it's Turandot by Puccini