dhaupt wrote:Muse said she's having trouble posting to this thread if any one else is please private message me and I'll see what's up.
Debbie,
This is a test. As of 10 am this morning my whole account was screwy. The boards were only showing partial "laurals", I couldn't get a post to take on this string, and finally got one to take on the coffee string. Hope this works This is a test.
Muse
We are back in business...so now down to business... At this point it will have to be later this afternoon. BUT I will be back. 
Hello Angus and Muse, I also had trouble posting. So Angus, it is not for loss of interest, trust us we are just getting started !
Question #3, The Battle at Linden Lea. Were you surprised when Frere Tuck arrived with reinforcements, and who he brought with him ?
Muse, I had the same reaction to that great battle scene ! I really felt what it was like, I was there ! I was reading with my head scrunched down so my head was protected ! That was a great battle scene ! I did hope that Frere Tuck would come. He seems to wait behind the scenes and and acts on his own. But he cares for not only the outlaw men, but for the women and children of the outlaw band. I really love that instead of weapons, he has two very large and scary dogs Gog & Magog !
I am not all that surprised that Frere Tuck came to help Robin and the outlaws, with Brigid and her followers! Frere Tuck must know they can be trusted, and I think that because they are outsiders too, that Brigid and Robin have bonded as outside of the church and noble society.
AngusDonald wrote:
Hello all –
I say "all" although there is a rather depleted crew this week. Due to the tapering off in interest, I'll make this brief. I also feel that many of the themes in the first book in the series have already been pretty exhaustively discussed. So, as succinctly as I can, here we go . . .
It's odd for me thinking about Hugh again as the bad guy, as I haven't really considered his motives for a few years now (I finished writing Outlaw in 2008). I think, at heart, he betrays Robin because he is jealous of his younger brother. Hugh might tell himself that it is because of Robin's heretical flirtation with paganism, and that he is trying to save his brother's soul, but I think that the deep truth is that he hates Robin on some level, as well as loving and admiring him enormously. I have three brothers (no sisters, sadly), and I know that that relationship between aggressively competitive brothers can be complicated, particularly when they are so much more successful, as my brothers are. I hope I would never betray them in the drastic way that Hugh betrays Robin, but I do understand the dark urge, born of sibling rivalry, that makes you want to see a powerful brother, even one that you truly love, humbled. I think that this sort of family competition is hard-wired into us. (God, I really hope my brothers Jamie, John and Alex Donald aren't reading this!)
I also feel that I didn't do a really terrific job in disguising the identitiy of the traitor: several people have told me that they knew who the bad guy was after the massacre at Thangbrand's. I took this on board, and in Holy Warrior, the second book in the series, the identity of the "bad guy" – he or she is an assassin trying to kill Robin in the next one – is far better concealed. At least, I hope so.
OK, that's enough from me for now. Good-night!
Good morning crew and Angus, I also don't feel that the interest is lessening, there may be several factors going on. One a lot of people on the board have full time jobs and so when they have time they post and a lot of them post during the last part of the week. We aren't all fast readers too.
Plus those nasty gremllins have been around this week and perhaps did so when the participant had time to post so we'll have to wait and see.
Now, I for one Angus didn't realize it was Hugh I thought it might have been Will and I for one was shocked by the discovery and thought you did an outstanding job.
Personally from my blood thirsty side I'm glad that John killed him 
because if anyone had a reason to die it was him for all of the deaths he caused in his so called "saving Robin" campaign. What a toad. I also believe it was because of jealousy that he betrayed Robin, I don't know that in my heart of heart I think that he hated him. But you made me wonder until the end who the culprit was.
This has been a truly exciting experience discussing the novel with you and all of the commenters too.
Follow-up to question #3, battle of Lindon Lea.
One scene that really stood out for me in this battle was the introduction of the massive trebuchet, a siege engine that was employed in the Middle Ages.
I liked how Robin told Alan, upon seeing it for the first time, that he had heard of these in France but had never seen one in actual battle. Alan sees Murdac's men slowly move this monster into striking distance of the fortifications of Lindon Lea castle. At first it misses but then they correct the range and the giant boulders sail through the air and Alan and Robin can see its terrifying trajectory as it smashes into the walls, instantly crushing anyone who is unfortunate to be on the other side.
Optic
optic_i wrote:
Follow-up to question #3, battle of Lindon Lea.
One scene that really stood out for me in this battle was the introduction of the massive trebuchet, a siege engine that was employed in the Middle Ages.
I liked how Robin told Alan, upon seeing it for the first time, that he had heard of these in France but had never seen one in actual battle. Alan sees Murdac's men slowly move this monster into striking distance of the fortifications of Lindon Lea castle. At first it misses but then they correct the range and the giant boulders sail through the air and Alan and Robin can see its terrifying trajectory as it smashes into the walls, instantly crushing anyone who is unfortunate to be on the other side.
Optic
Thanks Optic
optic_i wrote:Hello Angus and Muse, I also had trouble posting. So Angus, it is not for loss of interest, trust us we are just getting started !
Question #3, The Battle at Linden Lea. Were you surprised when Frere Tuck arrived with reinforcements, and who he brought with him ?
Muse, I had the same reaction to that great battle scene ! I really felt what it was like, I was there ! I was reading with my head scrunched down so my head was protected ! That was a great battle scene ! I did hope that Frere Tuck would come. He seems to wait behind the scenes and and acts on his own. But he cares for not only the outlaw men, but for the women and children of the outlaw band. I really love that instead of weapons, he has two very large and scary dogs Gog & Magog !
I am not all that surprised that Frere Tuck came to help Robin and the outlaws, with Brigid and her followers! Frere Tuck must know they can be trusted, and I think that because they are outsiders too, that Brigid and Robin have bonded as outside of the church and noble society.
Optic
Oh Optic!!!!
I forgot all about Brigid and her gang!!!! To me THAT was the BIG surprise. You kinda expect Sir Richard and his cronies.... they're Templars (DUH). But all these people of the woods came in with their various weapons of choice and just started WHAMing away. I almost felt like it was like fairies pinging away with their little bows and arrows and ZING right in the rump with a razor sharp arrow that hurt more than a big ol' axe or whatever. Lol But they put their lives and souls into saving Robin and his men.
Then when it was over the two tiny midget brothers were dead. That broke my heart.
That aside -- The fact that all these different factions came together to fight Murdac says a lot about how bad things were for the local peseantry. No one was safe from this man and his hooligans. It also says something about the respect that Robin had slowly gained amongst the people of all the classes.
Muse
Question # 4, Alan talks about his grandsons Illness,were you surprised he went to see Brigid to have her help cure his grandson knowing how he feels about his faith ?
I think Alan would do anything to save his grandson. He has already lost his son, and his grandson was the last to carry his name on.But most of all he was a grandfather and he loved him! Alan did consider his faith and still went to see Brigid the pagon witch. He hoped she would be able to save his grandson, and she helped him.
Were you surprised that Brigid was still alive ?
I am not really sure how old Brigid is, Alan says he is 60 summers old when he see's brigid to save his grandson, so I will guess that Brigid must be around 70 or 75 years old. People of this period did not live much past their 40 th summer, so even Alan would have been a very old man at 60. Perhaps Brigid had some super natural vitamins !
Peppermill wrote:I guess I just didn't pay attention to the treachery sub-plot. For me, it sort of dropped down on top of all the other activities, rather than being something that developed with clues and evidence and expectations and possible other directions throughout the story. Not that I minded. But that's just the way the Hugh/John/Robin story was for me. The perfunctory killing of Hugh by John seemed unfortunate to me, as I said earlier, because Hugh seemed to have some traits that could have later been valuable to Robin, if reconciliation ever became possible again, perhaps after a long period of parallel travails. But that would have been another story.
Now, the interesting question to myself -- why wasn't the treachery integral to the flow of the story for me? Perhaps because at some level it didn't matter -- someone had betrayed their camp and a series of actions followed. Perhaps Hugh hadn't been tied into the flow as a "necessary" character to the plot, despite how important he had been as a helpmate to Robin? I don't know, those are just musings. Perhaps the broader question is, what is the story as told here really about? For me, the story was observing Robin Hood in what might have been a more realistic sequence of events than he has been portrayed by other writers, but it wasn't a discovering of Lancelot at the round table, i.e., perfidy at the center of violence committed in the name of rightousness (security and safety for common people).
Hi Pepper, I agree with your view on what this story is really about, This is a much hardend Robin Hood. I also had to get used to this very different kind of story about him. But that would be one more nice good guy version. This one told of an Outlaw in a time when I think most men were making the rules by brute force !
Mountain_Muse wrote:
optic_i wrote:Hello Angus and Muse, I also had trouble posting. So Angus, it is not for loss of interest, trust us we are just getting started !
Question #3, The Battle at Linden Lea. Were you surprised when Frere Tuck arrived with reinforcements, and who he brought with him ?
Muse, I had the same reaction to that great battle scene ! I really felt what it was like, I was there ! I was reading with my head scrunched down so my head was protected ! That was a great battle scene ! I did hope that Frere Tuck would come. He seems to wait behind the scenes and and acts on his own. But he cares for not only the outlaw men, but for the women and children of the outlaw band. I really love that instead of weapons, he has two very large and scary dogs Gog & Magog !
I am not all that surprised that Frere Tuck came to help Robin and the outlaws, with Brigid and her followers! Frere Tuck must know they can be trusted, and I think that because they are outsiders too, that Brigid and Robin have bonded as outside of the church and noble society.
Optic
Oh Optic!!!!
I forgot all about Brigid and her gang!!!! To me THAT was the BIG surprise. You kinda expect Sir Richard and his cronies.... they're Templars (DUH). But all these people of the woods came in with their various weapons of choice and just started WHAMing away. I almost felt like it was like fairies pinging away with their little bows and arrows and ZING right in the rump with a razor sharp arrow that hurt more than a big ol' axe or whatever. Lol But they put their lives and souls into saving Robin and his men.
Then when it was over the two tiny midget brothers were dead. That broke my heart.
That aside -- The fact that all these different factions came together to fight Murdac says a lot about how bad things were for the local peseantry. No one was safe from this man and his hooligans. It also says something about the respect that Robin had slowly gained amongst the people of all the classes.
Muse
Hi Muse, don't worry about the confusion on who came when on the battle field, It was so intense that everyone was there ! Besides I am confused about the history of who's who on question #5 !! I know youll smoke me on that one ! 
optic_i wrote:
Mountain_Muse wrote:
optic_i wrote:Hello Angus and Muse, I also had trouble posting. So Angus, it is not for loss of interest, trust us we are just getting started !
Question #3, The Battle at Linden Lea. Were you surprised when Frere Tuck arrived with reinforcements, and who he brought with him ?
Muse, I had the same reaction to that great battle scene ! I really felt what it was like, I was there ! I was reading with my head scrunched down so my head was protected ! That was a great battle scene ! I did hope that Frere Tuck would come. He seems to wait behind the scenes and and acts on his own. But he cares for not only the outlaw men, but for the women and children of the outlaw band. I really love that instead of weapons, he has two very large and scary dogs Gog & Magog !
I am not all that surprised that Frere Tuck came to help Robin and the outlaws, with Brigid and her followers! Frere Tuck must know they can be trusted, and I think that because they are outsiders too, that Brigid and Robin have bonded as outside of the church and noble society.
Optic
Oh Optic!!!!
I forgot all about Brigid and her gang!!!! To me THAT was the BIG surprise. You kinda expect Sir Richard and his cronies.... they're Templars (DUH). But all these people of the woods came in with their various weapons of choice and just started WHAMing away. I almost felt like it was like fairies pinging away with their little bows and arrows and ZING right in the rump with a razor sharp arrow that hurt more than a big ol' axe or whatever. Lol But they put their lives and souls into saving Robin and his men.
Then when it was over the two tiny midget brothers were dead. That broke my heart.
That aside -- The fact that all these different factions came together to fight Murdac says a lot about how bad things were for the local peseantry. No one was safe from this man and his hooligans. It also says something about the respect that Robin had slowly gained amongst the people of all the classes.
Muse
Hi Muse, don't worry about the confusion on who came when on the battle field, It was so intense that everyone was there ! Besides I am confused about the history of who's who on question #5 !! I know youll smoke me on that one !
Opic
optic_i wrote:Hi Pepper, I agree with your view on what this story is really about, This is a much hardend Robin Hood. I also had to get used to this very different kind of story about him. But that would be one more nice good guy version. This one told of an Outlaw in a time when I think most men were making the rules by brute force !
Optic
Or being peasants and tilling the land or hunting or fishing. Industry was almost non-existent yet except for a few tradesmen and artisans. Whereas agriculture now occupies only a very small proportion of the population, at least in developed countries, for centuries large parts of the population tilled the land -- in these fuedal times, under the protection and oft ownership or close to it of the nobility, who also often provided the warriors. Starvation was a constant threat, which I realized was appropriately portrayed in Mary Sharratt's Daughters of the Witching Hill as I recently re-read it. I noticed the need for food before, I noticed more the cycles of winter and summer, good crops and bad weather this time around.
Although lifespans were certainly shorter in those brutish circumstances, we should remember that if someone survived infancy and, if a woman, child birth, they had a reasonable chance to reach ages well into the sixties. Average life span figures are skewed by those infant deaths and those of women in their child bearing years. Many moons ago, some discussions and some look-sees at the scholarly statistics led me to move away from the assumption that the forties were necessarily "old age" in classical and feudal times. (Certainly there were not the percentages of octagenarians and older we experience today.)
