Week One Discussion of Bereft [ Edited ]

[pen21]

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dhaupt wrote:

Great responses everyone

just an fyi i'll be opening that spoiler thread tomorrow

now another thing to think about,

right before we close the scene on part 1 Quinn recalls a trip with his friend to the psychic's parlor. I'd forgotten just how popular seances, mediums and the like were then and the craze apparently was global and I think it's very time accurate for Chris to put it in the story, shows great research on his part.

Did you know about the popularity

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I knew of psychic parlors, seances, etc. But I didn't know of their popularity. I wonder if the war helped make them popular. So many people and families lost someone in the war.

[optic_i]

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pen21 wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

Great responses everyone

just an fyi i'll be opening that spoiler thread tomorrow

now another thing to think about,

right before we close the scene on part 1 Quinn recalls a trip with his friend to the psychic's parlor. I'd forgotten just how popular seances, mediums and the like were then and the craze apparently was global and I think it's very time accurate for Chris to put it in the story, shows great research on his part.

Did you know about the popularity

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I knew of psychic parlors, seances, etc. But I didn't know of their popularity. I wonder if the war helped make them popular. So many people and families lost someone in the war.Yes

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Yes that does make sense during the war & plague of that time period. They must of thought it was Armageddon !   And wanted to find out what was going on, on the other side !  

Optic

[optic_i]

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christopherw wrote:

Thanks for those comments. 'Ethereal' is certainly what I was aiming for in many scenes with Quinn and his flashbacks and dreams or hallucinations. Or are they?

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Chris, I am so glad you brought this up. Oftentimes in your book I had to really think about the flashbacks, dreams, and hallucinations and think, is this real ? You masterfully crafted ethereal characters and landscapes and created a perceptual illusion that kept me guessing.

Optic

[Mountain_Muse]

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optic_i wrote:

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pen21 wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

Great responses everyone

just an fyi i'll be opening that spoiler thread tomorrow

now another thing to think about,

right before we close the scene on part 1 Quinn recalls a trip with his friend to the psychic's parlor. I'd forgotten just how popular seances, mediums and the like were then and the craze apparently was global and I think it's very time accurate for Chris to put it in the story, shows great research on his part.

Did you know about the popularity

---

I knew of psychic parlors, seances, etc. But I didn't know of their popularity. I wonder if the war helped make them popular. So many people and families lost someone in the war.Yes

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Yes that does make sense during the war & plague of that time period. They must of thought it was Armageddon !   And wanted to find out what was going on, on the other side !  

Optic

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My knowledge of the mediums and psychics of the period is based on what I've read of Houdini and his work to debunk them.  There were so many charletons, which the one Quinn and his friend appeared to be attending.  At least Quinn had a level enough head on his shoulders to be convinced that the whole scene was a bunch of bunk.  Chris' description of the scene was wonderful, down to the spittle of the mother of the three sister who were the actual mediums.

Muse

[optic_i]

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

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optic_i wrote:

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pen21 wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

Great responses everyone

just an fyi i'll be opening that spoiler thread tomorrow

now another thing to think about,

right before we close the scene on part 1 Quinn recalls a trip with his friend to the psychic's parlor. I'd forgotten just how popular seances, mediums and the like were then and the craze apparently was global and I think it's very time accurate for Chris to put it in the story, shows great research on his part.

Did you know about the popularity

---

I knew of psychic parlors, seances, etc. But I didn't know of their popularity. I wonder if the war helped make them popular. So many people and families lost someone in the war.Yes

---

Yes that does make sense during the war & plague of that time period. They must of thought it was Armageddon !   And wanted to find out what was going on, on the other side !  

Optic

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My knowledge of the mediums and psychics of the period is based on what I've read of Houdini and his work to debunk them.  There were so many charletons, which the one he and his friend appeared to be, or at least Quinn had a level enough head on his shoulders to be convinced that the whole scene was a bunch of bunk.  Chris' description of the scene was wonderful, down to the spittle of the mother of the three sister who were the actual mediums.

Muse

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That is interesting Muse, I never knew that about Houdini. I also liked that scene, I thought it was a very realistic description of the 3 sister mediums. A bit scary too.
Optic

[whiteginger]

I had no idea that séances were so popular, but I think, Pen and Optic, that you are probably right about the world situation creating the perfect timing for their popularity.  I really liked Mrs. Crenshaw, the mother.  She was quite the cynical character wasn't she?  Realizing that Quinn believes this is an act,  she first gives him the standard line about how the dead, esp. those killed violently, are sometimes trapped in limbo and need to make contact before moving on.  

Then she adds that the "living are sometimes themselves trapped, until they hear what the dead might have to tell them.  There are some things that cannot be left unsaid"  and if he doesn't believe in such things, he shouldn't look so afraid.  That's when Quinn realizes he despises her.  He tells himself he hates her because she is probably a charlatan, but I'm guessing that he hates her because she has guessed the truth about him:  he is trapped and must go back to avenge his sister's death and say the truth about the murder.

The other thing the mother said which struck me as very true was that the woman who was there to contact her son hated Quinn simply because he was a survivor.  

The mother and sisters have the perfect set-up (fake or not):  The mother "reads" the customers and talks to them; then she can guide the sisters during their readings.

Oh!  And Chris, you are such a name dropper.  Sir Authur Doyle!   Talk about a person who could "read" other people.  (I had to laugh, but I loved it!)

[christopherw]

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optic_i wrote:

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christopherw wrote:

Thanks for those comments. 'Ethereal' is certainly what I was aiming for in many scenes with Quinn and his flashbacks and dreams or hallucinations. Or are they?

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Chris, I am so glad you brought this up. Oftentimes in your book I had to really think about the flashbacks, dreams, and hallucinations and think, is this real ? You masterfully crafted ethereal characters and landscapes and created a perceptual illusion that kept me guessing.

Optic

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Optic,

Thanks so much.

[christopherw]

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whiteginger wrote:

I had no idea that séances were so popular, but I think, Pen and Optic, that you are probably right about the world situation creating the perfect timing for their popularity.  I really liked Mrs. Crenshaw, the mother.  She was quite the cynical character wasn't she?  Realizing that Quinn believes this is an act,  she first gives him the standard line about how the dead, esp. those killed violently, are sometimes trapped in limbo and need to make contact before moving on.  

Then she adds that the "living are sometimes themselves trapped, until they hear what the dead might have to tell them.  There are some things that cannot be left unsaid"  and if he doesn't believe in such things, he shouldn't look so afraid.  That's when Quinn realizes he despises her.  He tells himself he hates her because she is probably a charlatan, but I'm guessing that he hates her because she has guessed the truth about him:  he is trapped and must go back to avenge his sister's death and say the truth about the murder.

The other thing the mother said which struck me as very true was that the woman who was there to contact her son hated Quinn simply because he was a survivor.  

The mother and sisters have the perfect set-up (fake or not):  The mother "reads" the customers and talks to them; then she can guide the sisters during their readings.

Oh!  And Chris, you are such a name dropper.  Sir Authur Doyle!   Talk about a person who could "read" other people.  (I had to laugh, but I loved it!)

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Thanks Whiteginger,

I actually wanted to put a little more Conan Doyle into the novel but had to relinquish him a bit. Doyle actually toured Australia in 1922, lecturing to around 50,000 people over a few weeks. Sadly the timing was not suitable for Bereft. The rise of Spiritualism was one of the most fascinating things about my research int WWI and I actually wrote an essay on the phenomenon called Negotiating with The Dead for those who are interested.

[dhaupt]

Thanks for all the great comments and Chris thanks for letting us in on a few more of your secrets, your article was great.

I've actually read many novels set in this time period where spiritualism was brought up, in fact Katherine Howe's newest Release The House of Velvet and Glass deals a great deal with it after the protagonist looses her mother and sister on the Titanic

I dug up a couple of articles that you might find interesting

here's one on Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, scroll down for his Spiritualism section

and here's one on the history of the movement

[whiteginger]

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Chris wrote:  The rise of Spiritualism was one of the most fascinating things about my research int WWI and I actually wrote an essay on the phenomenon called Negotiating with The Dead for those who are interested.

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dhaupt wrote:

Thanks for all the great comments and Chris thanks for letting us in on a few more of your secrets, your article was great.

I've actually read many novels set in this time period where spiritualism was brought up, . . . 

I dug up a couple of articles that you might find interesting  here's one on Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, scroll down for his Spiritualism section  and here's one on the history of the movement

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Thanks for all the articles.  That really was fascinating.  I thought the mention of Doyle was merely an allusion to Doyle's character Sherlock Holmes who "read" people through the simple powers of observation. Obviously, had you guys not filled me in, I would have missed a great deal.  And, Muse, I had already learned from you that Houdini tried to debunk Spiritualism, but his connection / friendship / falling-out with Doyle was a new bit of interest for me.

It seems that Doyle's real belief in Spiritualism followed his depression over the loss of many close loved ones.  I was reminded of Svidrigailov from Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment.  Svidrigailov, a dying man, sees ghosts.  He explains that the spirits of the dead are constantly all around all of us in the world of the living, but most of us never see them:  we are too busy with "living" to be still and take notice of the dead.  In his theory, persons who are  depressed and dying see ghosts most often because they are no longer consumed with the activities of living.  As they think more about death themselves, they become aware of other planes of existence.  

[elaine_hf]

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

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aprilh wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

Well I'm about to close up shop for today and not taking laptop home again.

I'm not saying who done it

But do you think if there had not been mention about the relationship between Quinn and Sarah being "odd" that there would have been a question about his guilt

Have a great evening everyone and I'll see you tomorrow.

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I went back to the prologue and reread the point where Quinn was "discovered" at the scene.  It was storming and after hours of search, Nathaniel (dad) finally stumbles upon Quinn and his dead sister.  Nathaniel is "speechless".  "The boy tried to appeal to his father but his words were drowned by a rumble of thunder."  Then enters "Uncle" Robert Dalton who blows and bellows and Quinn freaks and runs.....  the scene then closes to the mother.....  

On down, it references that "with the Walker family in  mourning, Robert Dalton took on the roll of unofficial chronicler of the event."  He was heard telling reporters and anyone else who would listen about the suspicious behavior between the brother and sister.  AHHHhhhh  From whence the spin on the story came.....hmmmmm.... then back to an earlier observation and question one of you had of was the unatural behavior between Quinn and Sarah Nathaniel's idea or was it planted there?  If it was his idea why did he let the enforcement of the "playing together ban" go away after a couple of days?

 It's sounding like "Spin control" to me.  And we thought "spin control" was limited to today's politics and politicians.  Lol...Hmmmmmmm

Just saying.  

Great observation Aprih!!

Muse

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I also feel like Robert Dalton is highly suspect here. Just a little too quick to plant those seeds of doubt. It seems like no one ever thought of Quinn in the role of protective brother, or as close in age to Sarah so a likely companion, and now everyone is eager to blame Quinn for Sarah's death. Yes, the circumstantial evidence certainly points that way, and maybe people are too busy, too exhausted to try to think it through so they take the easy route and blame Quinn, but her death is a huge event, it needs to be examined. Unfortunately, Quinn's running away didn't help his case, so where was the motivation to re-examine the evidence? I just wonder if Uncle Robert has been working on the town all of those intervening years, between Quinn's disappearance and reappearance, to keep the 'Quinn is guilty' line of thought alive and well.

Spin control - it's been around since the dawn of time, nothing new there. Look at the Inquisition and their justification for torture, war and its many benefits....oh, the sordid list goes on and on..... Our politicians are mild compared to so much of our violent history.

[Mountain_Muse]

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elaine_hf wrote:

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

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aprilh wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

Well I'm about to close up shop for today and not taking laptop home again.

I'm not saying who done it

But do you think if there had not been mention about the relationship between Quinn and Sarah being "odd" that there would have been a question about his guilt

Have a great evening everyone and I'll see you tomorrow.

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I went back to the prologue and reread the point where Quinn was "discovered" at the scene.  It was storming and after hours of search, Nathaniel (dad) finally stumbles upon Quinn and his dead sister.  Nathaniel is "speechless".  "The boy tried to appeal to his father but his words were drowned by a rumble of thunder."  Then enters "Uncle" Robert Dalton who blows and bellows and Quinn freaks and runs.....  the scene then closes to the mother.....  

On down, it references that "with the Walker family in  mourning, Robert Dalton took on the roll of unofficial chronicler of the event."  He was heard telling reporters and anyone else who would listen about the suspicious behavior between the brother and sister.  AHHHhhhh  From whence the spin on the story came.....hmmmmm.... then back to an earlier observation and question one of you had of was the unatural behavior between Quinn and Sarah Nathaniel's idea or was it planted there?  If it was his idea why did he let the enforcement of the "playing together ban" go away after a couple of days?

 It's sounding like "Spin control" to me.  And we thought "spin control" was limited to today's politics and politicians.  Lol...Hmmmmmmm

Just saying.  

Great observation Aprih!!

Muse

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I also feel like Robert Dalton is highly suspect here. Just a little too quick to plant those seeds of doubt. It seems like no one ever thought of Quinn in the role of protective brother, or as close in age to Sarah so a likely companion, and now everyone is eager to blame Quinn for Sarah's death. Yes, the circumstantial evidence certainly points that way, and maybe people are too busy, too exhausted to try to think it through so they take the easy route and blame Quinn, but her death is a huge event, it needs to be examined. Unfortunately, Quinn's running away didn't help his case, so where was the motivation to re-examine the evidence? I just wonder if Uncle Robert has been working on the town all of those intervening years, between Quinn's disappearance and reappearance, to keep the 'Quinn is guilty' line of thought alive and well.

Spin control - it's been around since the dawn of time, nothing new there. Look at the Inquisition and their justification for torture, war and its many benefits....oh, the sordid list goes on and on..... Our politicians are mild compared to so much of our violent history.

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Yes, TWJ, controlling information and using it for self-propulltion and power has been around to the beginning of time.... I think I recall an early set of brothers or two with that problem....one even proclaimed not be be his brother's keeper.  But also, did you notice that it wasn't until Uncle showed up that Quinn jack-rabbited?  He was trying to explain to his father, but as soon as he saw his uncle he was GONE.  Didn't even bother to say "HEY, I didn't DO it!" to him, just POOF...   little details, the knot unravel.

Muse

[Mountain_Muse]

As I want to finish the book and take part in the spoiler thread... I am enjoying the savour of the first week so much that I am holding out to read section by section.....  It's not easy, though. :-)

Muse

[dhaupt]

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

As I want to finish the book and take part in the spoiler thread... I am enjoying the savour of the first week so much that I am holding out to read section by section.....  It's not easy, though. :-)

Muse

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Well aren't you a good girl, but I am sitting down

[Mountain_Muse]

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dhaupt wrote:

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

As bad as I want to finish the book and take part in the spoiler thread... I am enjoying the savour of the first week so much that I am holding out to read section by section.....  It's not easy, though. :-)

Muse

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Well aren't you a good girl, but I am sitting down

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Ahhh, you should see me savour chocolate 

Muse

[whiteginger]

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

As bad as I want to finish the book and take part in the spoiler thread... I am enjoying the savour of the first week so much that I am holding out to read section by section.....  It's not easy, though. :-)

Muse

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Well aren't you a good girl, but I am sitting down

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Ahhh, you should see me savour chocolate 

Muse

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Well, Muse, it may be you and I (I like to savour, too.)  I'm going to think of us --any of us who are savouring each part--as the "unspoiled" readers.    OK.  Fess up.  How many of us are unspoiled?  (Yes, Deb, I know--you are sitting down AND you have your wading boots on!  )

[Mountain_Muse]

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whiteginger wrote:

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

As bad as I want to finish the book and take part in the spoiler thread... I am enjoying the savour of the first week so much that I am holding out to read section by section.....  It's not easy, though. :-)

Muse

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Well aren't you a good girl, but I am sitting down

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Ahhh, you should see me savour chocolate 

Muse

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Well, Muse, it may be you and I (I like to savour, too.)  I'm going to think of us --any of us who are savouring each part--as the "unspoiled" readers.    OK.  Fess up.  How many of us are unspoiled?  (Yes, Deb, I know--you are sitting down AND you have your wading boots on!  )

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Well, Ginger, I think we need to give Debbie (and Chris of course) a "gold pass" -- They HAD to read the book ahead of time, for obvious reasons.  Lol.

Muse

[Fozzie]

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whiteginger wrote:

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

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Mountain_Muse wrote:

As bad as I want to finish the book and take part in the spoiler thread... I am enjoying the savour of the first week so much that I am holding out to read section by section.....  It's not easy, though. :-)

Muse

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Well aren't you a good girl, but I am sitting down

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Ahhh, you should see me savour chocolate 

Muse

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Well, Muse, it may be you and I (I like to savour, too.)  I'm going to think of us --any of us who are savouring each part--as the "unspoiled" readers.    OK.  Fess up.  How many of us are unspoiled?  (Yes, Deb, I know--you are sitting down AND you have your wading boots on!  )

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I'm another unspoiled reader!  I haven't read ahead.

[dhaupt]

All joking aside, I remember when FirstLook was in full swing and I tried it both ways, reading on schedule and reading ahead and for me personally it was more enjoyable and less apt to "spoil" by reading on schedule. And now that I've usually read the novel way before we read it together, I too read again with you and don't go further than the week.

But it really has to be a personal choice

I'm just glad that you are all enjoying Bereft, it's a wonderful novel and Chris's writing style is full of prose and vivid imagery.

now on to week two and more discoveries

[kimba88]

I am thoroughly enjoying this. I too want to know more about why he was nicknamed Meek. I love the language the author uses and really became swept up in the tale. I consumed this last Sunday and to be honest didn't want to  stop..but I didn't want to spoil the discussions to come. 

What kind of parent truly believes their child capable of murder? If I stumbled upon my daughter and son. I would ask questions and the last thing after tons of evidence would be that my son did it. I certainly wouldn't support my husband bad mouthing or threatening to hang him.

I love the mention of séances I love this time period and they were quite popular.  I cannot wait to read part two tomorrow!