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Moderator
dhaupt
Posts: 11,319
Registered: ‎10-19-2006

Week three discussion of Bereft

Our time in Post WWI Australia is almost over, and I just wanted to thank all of you for your wonderful comments, taking the time out of your busy lives to join in

I will have thank you thread for Chris early this week.

 

Week Three
Bereft

1. Quinn tells his mother about the years since he left, but he still refuses to tell her who killed Sarah
What would you have done

 

2. Quinn finally confesses to Sadie what happened the day Sarah died after she shows him the “souvenirs” that Robert has kept from his victims.
Do you think he should have told her

 

3. Since we’ve met Sadie we know that she as her mother did dabble in the occult and when she takes Quinn to the cave of hands and sacrifices the lamb that fact is solidified.

Did the author do a good job of authenticating Sadie as practicer

 

4. While in the cemetery sweating in his boots Quinn tells Mrs. Porteous that yes he did meet her husband in Egypt and that yes he did talk about her.
Was this merely a way to avoid his uncle or do you think he did it for the sake of her memory too

 

5. Jim Gracie calls Quinn the angel of death and we’re led to believe that he is remorseful of his past actions, he also says that Robert made him do those things.
Do you believe his suicide was because he was sorry or because he would be caught and punished

 

6. Was the murder of Robert Dalton necessary to the story, was it overkill, did it fit

 

7. Sometimes I ask you to spring forward to tell us what happened to the characters, in this novel the author has done that for us except for the two that really matter.
So what happened to Quinn and Sadie five years from now

Scribe
Mountain_Muse
Posts: 1,098
Registered: ‎06-09-2010

Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


Here are my first responses to the following questions.  The others I need to think on some more.
Happy Week Three to all.
Muse

Week Three
Bereft

 

1. Quinn tells his mother about the years since he left, but he still refuses to tell her who killed Sarah
What would you have done

 

Quinn loved his mother deeply.  This was ultimately reflected in his determination to not add one more nail to her coffin and increase the depth of her bereavement that she already suffered.  She was already so fragile, she thought so highly of her brother that she would be incapable of accepting or acknowledging his ability to do such a heinous crime.  It would then force her to not believe her son and cast doubt on his innocence.  No, it was best left unsaid.  She knew he knew who, but also knew he was unable to say who.

 

 

3. Since we’ve met Sadie we know that she as her mother did dabble in the occult and when she takes Quinn to the cave of hands and sacrifices the lamb that fact is solidified.

Did the author do a good job of authenticating Sadie as practicer

 

It was convincing to me.  Was it a mix of occult, Aborigine practice, and childish creation?  Whatever, is was effective.  I feel that Chris did his homework, once again.

 

4. While in the cemetery sweating in his boots Quinn tells Mrs. Porteous that yes he did meet her husband in Egypt and that yes he did talk about her.
Was this merely a way to avoid his uncle or do you think he did it for the sake of her memory too

 

I think that Mrs. Porteous soon realized that Quinn actually did not know her husband.  But she, too, had a reasonable fear of Robert and was more than willing to help this poor soldier. who was willing to lie to ease her pain, to escape the grasp of Robert.  In fact I am starting to get a picture that many people in the area were fearful of Robert, but were afraid to let others know of their fear of him.

 

5. Jim Gracie calls Quinn the angel of death and we’re led to believe that he is remorseful of his past actions, he also says that Robert made him do those things.
Do you believe his suicide was because he was sorry or because he would be caught and punished

 

Yes, I believe Jim was sorry for what he had done all those years ago and for all the many things Robert had forced him to do since.  But I think he committed suicide so that Robert couldn't force him to help find Quinn and Sadie or do more harm any more.  Quinn coming back from the dead was his "come to Jesus" moment and he realized that he could no longer be Robert's tool.

 



 

A really good book is much like an artichoke. As you peel back each page of the of the book, you get closer and closer to the succulent heart of the story.
Inspired Wordsmith
whiteginger
Posts: 861
Registered: ‎08-30-2010
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Re: Week three discussion of Bereft

Gremlins have been at work!  Lost all my comments.  GRRRRR!  Good questions, Deb, but  I'll have to come back later to respond. 


 

 

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dhaupt
Posts: 11,319
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


whiteginger wrote:

Gremlins have been at work!  Lost all my comments.  GRRRRR!  Good questions, Deb, but  I'll have to come back later to respond. 


 

 


Okay guys I need to know which browser you're using, this needs to be reported pronto

 

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Mountain_Muse
Posts: 1,098
Registered: ‎06-09-2010
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Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


whiteginger wrote:

Gremlins have been at work!  Lost all my comments.  GRRRRR!  Good questions, Deb, but  I'll have to come back later to respond. 


 

 


Same thing happened to me on the Europe string.

Muse

A really good book is much like an artichoke. As you peel back each page of the of the book, you get closer and closer to the succulent heart of the story.
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dhaupt
Posts: 11,319
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Week three discussion of Bereft

For those of you experiencing problems, My boss thinks it's just a temporary glitch but if it continues please pm me.

 

Distinguished Wordsmith
aprilh
Posts: 424
Registered: ‎09-25-2008

Re: Week three discussion of Bereft

I think Quinn was right in not telling his mother who Sarah's real killer was. His mother was already weakened by the influenza and was slipping in and out of consciousness. While I feel that Quinn's mother truly believed him when he said he did not kill Sarah, their relationship to me, still seemed to be too new. Everyone had thought Quinn died in the war and after ten years of being away, he shows up. I'm not sure if his mother would have believed Quinn at this point if he had told her that her beloved brother, Robert, had raped and killed her daughter. I think this would have made his mother suspicious of Quinn and would have resulted in her turning against him, thinking him a liar.

 

I think Sadie already knew the truth of what happened the night Sarah was murdered. She was suspicious of Robert and knew enough to stay away from him, knowing what his intentions were with her. I'm glad that Quinn finally told Sadie the truth of what happened the night Sarah died. He had been terrified of what he had seen and needed to be able to tell someone what he saw that night, to be able to finally have the courage to stand up for his sister and point out her murderer. In doing so, he also confirmed to Sadie that she should be fearful of Robert and to stay far away from him.

 

I got the feeling that Mrs. Porteous was suspicious of Robert. When Robert mentions that he and Jim Gracie were going to track down the Fox girl and take care of her, Mrs. Porteous questions his meaning. After he explains by saying the girl has no family and he'll take her to an orphanage, Mrs. Porteous says, "Yes, I am quite sure you will take care of her." Robert goes on the defense and wants to know what that was supposed to mean. They stare at each other for a second, then she explains herself, saying that the widows and orphans would have been lost without him there in the last few years. This exchange made me wonder if the town of Flint was suspicious of Robert being alone with the women in the town. Did they suspect that Robert was using his position as constable to do whatever he wanted without consequence? When Quinn tells Mrs. Porteous that he did know her deceased husband in Egypt, I felt it was more for her benefit then to stall Robert from finding out who he really was. He was grateful to Mrs. Porteous for interrupting his conversation with Robert and wanted to repay her somehow. She was clearly upset over the death of her husband and I think Quinn wanted to ease her pain a little by telling her how highly her husband had talked of her while he was away.

 

I think Jim Gracie was remorseful of all the bad things he had done, and that's why he hung himself. When Quinn and Gracie are talking in Gracie's cabin, he asks Quinn if he was married and Quinn says he was but his wife was murdered, that "Two men took her away one day and . . . raped and killed her."  Gracie looks terrified, reliving, I believe what happened the night Sarah died. He wanted to know what happened to the guys that committed the crime and Quinn says "God will have his vengeance." During their conversation, Quinn drinks too much grog and becomes drunk, leaving his mother's money on the table. Gracie could have easily killed Quinn and taken the money, but I believe that this was Gracie's turning point. He knew he had done wrong and felt he needed to do something about it, so he hung himself.

 

Quinn shooting Robert Dalton was an appropriate ending to this book. Robert needed to die in the end to stop him from hurting anyone else. He had already raped and murdered Sarah and the Gunn girl. He kidnaps Sadie and I believe rapes her. I found myself questioning if there were other victims through the years and if so, how many more had suffered at his hands. Had Robert been allowed to live who knows how many more girls would have been hurt before he was brought to justice.

 

The real mystery for me throughout this entire book was whether or not I believed that Sadie was Sarah in another life. I find myself going back and forth on this issue. I'm curious what everyone else thinks. Did Sadie just have psychic abilities or was she really Sarah?

April
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dhaupt
Posts: 11,319
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Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


aprilh wrote:

I think Quinn was right in not telling his mother who Sarah's real killer was. His mother was already weakened by the influenza and was slipping in and out of consciousness. While I feel that Quinn's mother truly believed him when he said he did not kill Sarah, their relationship to me, still seemed to be too new. Everyone had thought Quinn died in the war and after ten years of being away, he shows up. I'm not sure if his mother would have believed Quinn at this point if he had told her that her beloved brother, Robert, had raped and killed her daughter. I think this would have made his mother suspicious of Quinn and would have resulted in her turning against him, thinking him a liar.

 

I think Sadie already knew the truth of what happened the night Sarah was murdered. She was suspicious of Robert and knew enough to stay away from him, knowing what his intentions were with her. I'm glad that Quinn finally told Sadie the truth of what happened the night Sarah died. He had been terrified of what he had seen and needed to be able to tell someone what he saw that night, to be able to finally have the courage to stand up for his sister and point out her murderer. In doing so, he also confirmed to Sadie that she should be fearful of Robert and to stay far away from him.

 

I got the feeling that Mrs. Porteous was suspicious of Robert. When Robert mentions that he and Jim Gracie were going to track down the Fox girl and take care of her, Mrs. Porteous questions his meaning. After he explains by saying the girl has no family and he'll take her to an orphanage, Mrs. Porteous says, "Yes, I am quite sure you will take care of her." Robert goes on the defense and wants to know what that was supposed to mean. They stare at each other for a second, then she explains herself, saying that the widows and orphans would have been lost without him there in the last few years. This exchange made me wonder if the town of Flint was suspicious of Robert being alone with the women in the town. Did they suspect that Robert was using his position as constable to do whatever he wanted without consequence? When Quinn tells Mrs. Porteous that he did know her deceased husband in Egypt, I felt it was more for her benefit then to stall Robert from finding out who he really was. He was grateful to Mrs. Porteous for interrupting his conversation with Robert and wanted to repay her somehow. She was clearly upset over the death of her husband and I think Quinn wanted to ease her pain a little by telling her how highly her husband had talked of her while he was away.

 

I think Jim Gracie was remorseful of all the bad things he had done, and that's why he hung himself. When Quinn and Gracie are talking in Gracie's cabin, he asks Quinn if he was married and Quinn says he was but his wife was murdered, that "Two men took her away one day and . . . raped and killed her."  Gracie looks terrified, reliving, I believe what happened the night Sarah died. He wanted to know what happened to the guys that committed the crime and Quinn says "God will have his vengeance." During their conversation, Quinn drinks too much grog and becomes drunk, leaving his mother's money on the table. Gracie could have easily killed Quinn and taken the money, but I believe that this was Gracie's turning point. He knew he had done wrong and felt he needed to do something about it, so he hung himself.

 

Quinn shooting Robert Dalton was an appropriate ending to this book. Robert needed to die in the end to stop him from hurting anyone else. He had already raped and murdered Sarah and the Gunn girl. He kidnaps Sadie and I believe rapes her. I found myself questioning if there were other victims through the years and if so, how many more had suffered at his hands. Had Robert been allowed to live who knows how many more girls would have been hurt before he was brought to justice.

 

The real mystery for me throughout this entire book was whether or not I believed that Sadie was Sarah in another life. I find myself going back and forth on this issue. I'm curious what everyone else thinks. Did Sadie just have psychic abilities or was she really Sarah?


Thanks April, great comments

personally I don't think they were the same person

 

Inspired Wordsmith
whiteginger
Posts: 861
Registered: ‎08-30-2010

Re: Week three discussion of Bereft

[ Edited ]

Week Three 
Bereft

 Quinn tells his mother about the years since he left, but he still refuses to tell her who killed Sarah.  This is Quinn’s one truly heroic act in the book.  Quinn weighs the benefit (he lessens his own pain) and the harm (he destroys his already weakened mother) of his revealing the truth and chooses the best for his mother over the best for himself.  I could probably do that.  Then his mother, Mary, unknowingly compounds Quinn’s burden by accusing him of hiding the truth from her.  His burden of knowing this horrible truth is now also a burden of guilt for not telling the truth.  Maybe, under the circumstances, I could handle that, too.  But Quinn, selflessly, never seems to regret his choice, never seems angry that he alone carries this burden.  That’s a heroic quality.  I am not heroic.  I am quite certain anger would simmer inside me and finally explode. 

 

Quinn finally confesses to Sadie what happened the day Sarah died after Sadie shows him the “souvenirs” that Robert has kept from his victims.  Sadie has lived a harsh life and that has toughened her in some ways.  She knows about Robert, knows the truth about what he does.  To finally say and hear the horrible truth of what Robert did to Sarah is probably cathartic for both Quinn and Sadie.  It is often harder to deal with “I was afraid it was true” than with “It is true.”

 

 We suspect that Sadie, as her mother had done, dabbled in the occult; and when she takes Quinn to the cave of hands and sacrifices the lamb, that fact is solidified. (The sacrificial lamb!  I had so hoped that wouldn’t happen.  More on that later.  And the hands?  I’ve got to reread that.) The interweaving of the occult, myth, and Christianity was a wonderful way to keep me contemplating what forces actually control human life and how much individual responsibility any one human has.  Unbelievably, it worked.  And it was absolutely necessary for Sadie, the occult element, to be a child.  She was still young—playing at the craft, not yet in the full possession of her powers.  Or maybe she was just a child who wanted to believe in magic and charms and angels and talking animals.  Many coincidences occur—Quinn rubs the shell at the cemetery and Mrs. Porteous appears to distract Robert, Quinn’s is able to creep up on Gracie and his dogs as Sadie said, Quinn’s body carvings begin to itch and Gracie declares him the Angel of Death, etc.—but Sadie is never really credited with the creation/orchestration of these events. 

 

Robert Dalton’s murder had to occur and had to be at the hands of Quinn in some way.  Whether to leave revenge (justice) to God or to society, the law, or to the individual has been a dilemma for Quinn throughout the book.  There is neither true justice nor heroism in Quinn’s murder of Robert:   Quinn does not have the satisfaction of Robert’s fearful realization that Quinn murders Robert to avenge Sarah’s death (justice) and Quinn is too late to save Sadie from Robert (heroism).  The murder left me with neither a happy or sad ending to this story—the ending was simply poignant.   Robert has stated that when common people catch and violently punish a criminal that confirms their belief in a caring God (the bad are punished).  Conversely, when Quinn murders Robert, he is finally convinced that God is not watching at all, but finally being convinced gives him a certain peace.

 

7. Sometimes I ask you to spring forward to tell us what happened to the characters, in this novel the author has done that for us except for the two that really matter.
So what happened to Quinn and Sadie five years from now—Sadie and Quinn simply vanished as they walked quietly out of town.  Perhaps they were ghosts.  They have been seen often since, though not recognized, as the avenging angels when the rape or murder of some innocent child has occurred.  (Sorry.  Please forgive me, Chris.  I couldn’t resist!)

 

Inspired Wordsmith
whiteginger
Posts: 861
Registered: ‎08-30-2010
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Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


aprilh wrote:

 

 

I think Jim Gracie was remorseful of all the bad things he had done, and that's why he hung himself. When Quinn and Gracie are talking in Gracie's cabin, he asks Quinn if he was married and Quinn says he was but his wife was murdered, that "Two men took her away one day and . . . raped and killed her."  Gracie looks terrified, reliving, I believe what happened the night Sarah died. He wanted to know what happened to the guys that committed the crime and Quinn says "God will have his vengeance." During their conversation, Quinn drinks too much grog and becomes drunk, leaving his mother's money on the table. Gracie could have easily killed Quinn and taken the money, but I believe that this was Gracie's turning point. He knew he had done wrong and felt he needed to do something about it, so he hung himself.

 

Quinn shooting Robert Dalton was an appropriate ending to this book. Robert needed to die in the end to stop him from hurting anyone else. He had already raped and murdered Sarah and the Gunn girl. He kidnaps Sadie and I believe rapes her. I found myself questioning if there were other victims through the years and if so, how many more had suffered at his hands. Had Robert been allowed to live who knows how many more girls would have been hurt before he was brought to justice.

 

The real mystery for me throughout this entire book was whether or not I believed that Sadie was Sarah in another life. I find myself going back and forth on this issue. I'm curious what everyone else thinks. Did Sadie just have psychic abilities or was she really Sarah?


Muse wrote: Yes, I believe Jim was sorry for what he had done all those years ago and for all the many things Robert had forced him to do since.  But I think he committed suicide so that Robert couldn't force him to help find Quinn and Sadie or do more harm any more.  Quinn coming back from the dead was his "come to Jesus" moment and he realized that he could no longer be Robert's tool.


Gracie was remorseful?  Gracie was sorry?  I'm really not sure.  I guess I feel he was hounded by guilt and the horror of his crimes or at least of his complicity, but really sorry(?).  Anyway I'm not sure it matters why he committed suicide.  Like Muse, I think his suicide was a sign for Quinn, but I interpret the sign quite differently.  I think Quinn sees the suicide as God's way of vengence.  Perhaps God will take care of Robert, too; perhaps, Quinn won't have to kill Robert either.  Quinn still seems to be wrestling with the morality of taking another man's life--even in war. 

Inspired Wordsmith
whiteginger
Posts: 861
Registered: ‎08-30-2010

Re: Week three discussion of Bereft

OK.  I finally went to the spoiler thread and got only halfway through the first page before I found this gem from optic.

 

Optic wrote: The theme throughout Bereft to me was abandonment. The abandoned gold mines where people could fall through and never be seen again, created a surreal landscape of people lost, and fit the times perfectly between the plague and the war. Everyone lost someone.

 

Abandonment.  Yes, a big question seems to me:  Has God abandoned man?  Is he watching and judging?  Does he leave earthly justice in the hands of man?  Does He REQUIRE man to be His sword of justice?

 

The abandoned gold mines.  Wow!  What a great connection.  And later Quinn describes the barren land of Australia, of  Flint (wonderful name for the town!).  

 


Scribe
Mountain_Muse
Posts: 1,098
Registered: ‎06-09-2010

Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


whiteginger wrote:

Week Three 
Bereft

 Quinn tells his mother about the years since he left, but he still refuses to tell her who killed Sarah.  This is Quinn’s one truly heroic act in the book.  Quinn weighs the benefit (he lessens his own pain) and the harm (he destroys his already weakened mother) of his revealing the truth and chooses the best for his mother over the best for himself.  I could probably do that.  Then his mother, Mary, unknowingly compounds Quinn’s burden by accusing him of hiding the truth from her.  His burden of knowing this horrible truth is now also a burden of guilt for not telling the truth.  Maybe, under the circumstances, I could handle that, too.  But Quinn, selflessly, never seems to regret his choice, never seems angry that he alone carries this burden.  That’s a heroic quality.  I am not heroic.  I am quite certain anger would simmer inside me and finally explode. 

 

 Ginger, I think we are on the same page here.  Accept, I guess I, by your definition would have been the heroic type.  For I would have suffered in silence and protected my mother to the end to relieve her suffering as much as possible, like he did.

 

Quinn finally confesses to Sadie what happened the day Sarah died after Sadie shows him the “souvenirs” that Robert has kept from his victims.  Sadie has lived a harsh life and that has toughened her in some ways.  She knows about Robert, knows the truth about what he does.  To finally say and hear the horrible truth of what Robert did to Sarah is probably cathartic for both Quinn and Sadie.  It is often harder to deal with “I was afraid it was true” than with “It is true.”  YES!!!


 We suspect that Sadie, as her mother had done, dabbled in the occult; and when she takes Quinn to the cave of hands and sacrifices the lamb, that fact is solidified. (The sacrificial lamb!  I had so hoped that wouldn’t happen.  More on that later.  And the hands?  I’ve got to reread that.) The interweaving of the occult, myth, and Christianity was a wonderful way to keep me contemplating what forces actually control human life and how much individual responsibility any one human has.  Unbelievably, it worked.   I wondered about the Aboriginal element beyond the cave itself, but don't know enough to qualify the question. And it was absolutely necessary for Sadie, the occult element, to be a child.  She was still young—playing at the craft, not yet in the full possession of her powers.  Or maybe she was just a child who wanted to believe in magic and charms and angels and talking animals.  Many coincidences occur—Quinn rubs the shell at the cemetery and Mrs. Porteous appears to distract Robert, Quinn’s is able to creep up on Gracie and his dogs as Sadie said, Quinn’s body carvings begin to itch and Gracie declares him the Angel of Death, etc.—but Sadie is never really credited with the creation/orchestration of these events. I never thought to credit all those occurrences to Sadie..Especially the cemetery scene.  hmmmmm.

 

Robert Dalton’s murder had to occur and had to be at the hands of Quinn in some way.  Whether to leave revenge (justice) to God or to society, the law, or to the individual has been a dilemma for Quinn throughout the book.  There is neither true justice nor heroism in Quinn’s murder of Robert:   Quinn does not have the satisfaction of Robert’s fearful realization that Quinn murders Robert to avenge Sarah’s death (justice) and Quinn is too late to save Sadie from Robert (heroism).  The murder left me with neither a happy or sad ending to this story—the ending was simply poignant.   Robert has stated that when common people catch and violently punish a criminal that confirms their belief in a caring God (the bad are punished).  Conversely, when Quinn murders Robert, he is finally convinced that God is not watching at all, but finally being convinced gives him a certain peace.

 

It is here that I feel that even though, as Debbie alluded to - Robert's death might be overkill - it accomplished a just end.   But was it?  No, I don't think it was overkill, but yes, I do feel that it brought the one piece of much needed justice to the book.   In doing so, it allowed closure for the story, so that we, the reader could move on and not be left totally Bereft ourselves. If Robert had got away with the rape of Sadie and/or if he had raped & murdered her (even if Quinn had escaped), we would have all arrived at the end of the book with a brick in our stomach and a sense of  lose with no closure. 

Much like the Shakespearian tragedies, there is a formula here to Bereft.  For in fact, is that not what this book is?  A modern "tragedy"?  We all wanted Quinn to get to Sadie in time to rescue her before she was sullied by the "monster", but like the rest of the tragedies in the book, there was not a glimmer of brightness in the outcome of that, save Sadie survived and she was avenged in the end.  Even as Quinn went into the room and found Sadie she was resigned to what happened and accepted it as the inevitable had come and she had survived inspite of it all.  


Normally I do not enjoy such a dark book, but this book draws me in.  It calls me to look deeper, to listen to the cry of each of the victims, to cry for humanity, to peel back the outer layers of the story and delve into the soul of a world that was reeling like it hadn't reeled in total despair since the great plagues of the middle-ages.  It allows us to be voyeurs of others' pain and in doing so realize that maybe our world isn't so bad after all, that there is hope where we are and for the world we live in.  But most of all it called me to take those children, yes children they were (Quinn & Sadie), for Quinn quit growing emotionally when Sarah died -- and wrap them in my arms and comfort them and give them the solace they so longed for and sought.

I do believe that a third reading (for a second reading has happened within the discussion) will be a must to fully appreciated it after all the discoveries we have made during our three weeks spent talking about Bereft.

 

 Muse

 

 


A really good book is much like an artichoke. As you peel back each page of the of the book, you get closer and closer to the succulent heart of the story.
Author
christopherw
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎04-05-2012

Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


whiteginger wrote:

Week Three 
Bereft

 Quinn tells his mother about the years since he left, but he still refuses to tell her who killed Sarah.  This is Quinn’s one truly heroic act in the book.  Quinn weighs the benefit (he lessens his own pain) and the harm (he destroys his already weakened mother) of his revealing the truth and chooses the best for his mother over the best for himself.  I could probably do that.  Then his mother, Mary, unknowingly compounds Quinn’s burden by accusing him of hiding the truth from her.  His burden of knowing this horrible truth is now also a burden of guilt for not telling the truth.  Maybe, under the circumstances, I could handle that, too.  But Quinn, selflessly, never seems to regret his choice, never seems angry that he alone carries this burden.  That’s a heroic quality.  I am not heroic.  I am quite certain anger would simmer inside me and finally explode. 

 

Quinn finally confesses to Sadie what happened the day Sarah died after Sadie shows him the “souvenirs” that Robert has kept from his victims.  Sadie has lived a harsh life and that has toughened her in some ways.  She knows about Robert, knows the truth about what he does.  To finally say and hear the horrible truth of what Robert did to Sarah is probably cathartic for both Quinn and Sadie.  It is often harder to deal with “I was afraid it was true” than with “It is true.”

 

 We suspect that Sadie, as her mother had done, dabbled in the occult; and when she takes Quinn to the cave of hands and sacrifices the lamb, that fact is solidified. (The sacrificial lamb!  I had so hoped that wouldn’t happen.  More on that later.  And the hands?  I’ve got to reread that.) The interweaving of the occult, myth, and Christianity was a wonderful way to keep me contemplating what forces actually control human life and how much individual responsibility any one human has.  Unbelievably, it worked.  And it was absolutely necessary for Sadie, the occult element, to be a child.  She was still young—playing at the craft, not yet in the full possession of her powers.  Or maybe she was just a child who wanted to believe in magic and charms and angels and talking animals.  Many coincidences occur—Quinn rubs the shell at the cemetery and Mrs. Porteous appears to distract Robert, Quinn’s is able to creep up on Gracie and his dogs as Sadie said, Quinn’s body carvings begin to itch and Gracie declares him the Angel of Death, etc.—but Sadie is never really credited with the creation/orchestration of these events. 

 

Robert Dalton’s murder had to occur and had to be at the hands of Quinn in some way.  Whether to leave revenge (justice) to God or to society, the law, or to the individual has been a dilemma for Quinn throughout the book.  There is neither true justice nor heroism in Quinn’s murder of Robert:   Quinn does not have the satisfaction of Robert’s fearful realization that Quinn murders Robert to avenge Sarah’s death (justice) and Quinn is too late to save Sadie from Robert (heroism).  The murder left me with neither a happy or sad ending to this story—the ending was simply poignant.   Robert has stated that when common people catch and violently punish a criminal that confirms their belief in a caring God (the bad are punished).  Conversely, when Quinn murders Robert, he is finally convinced that God is not watching at all, but finally being convinced gives him a certain peace.

 

7. Sometimes I ask you to spring forward to tell us what happened to the characters, in this novel the author has done that for us except for the two that really matter.
So what happened to Quinn and Sadie five years from now—Sadie and Quinn simply vanished as they walked quietly out of town.  Perhaps they were ghosts.  They have been seen often since, though not recognized, as the avenging angels when the rape or murder of some innocent child has occurred.  (Sorry.  Please forgive me, Chris.  I couldn’t resist!)

 


Hi there,

 

Thanks for all the great comments. I was just in a town called Orange in NSW (near where the book is set) and the audience there had exactly the same questions about whether Sadie was real or not or where the note in the seance came from...

 

There might be a rumour as to what happened to Quinn and Sadie in my next book. Maybe. Maybe a rumour.

Author
christopherw
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎04-05-2012
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Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


whiteginger wrote:

OK.  I finally went to the spoiler thread and got only halfway through the first page before I found this gem from optic.

 

Optic wrote: The theme throughout Bereft to me was abandonment. The abandoned gold mines where people could fall through and never be seen again, created a surreal landscape of people lost, and fit the times perfectly between the plague and the war. Everyone lost someone.

 

Abandonment.  Yes, a big question seems to me:  Has God abandoned man?  Is he watching and judging?  Does he leave earthly justice in the hands of man?  Does He REQUIRE man to be His sword of justice?

 

The abandoned gold mines.  Wow!  What a great connection.  A and later Quinn describes the barren land of Australia, of  Flint (wonderful name for the town!).  

 



Yep. Great reading of the novel. Abandonment and the similarity of the old goldfields to the battlefields of Europe, from where Quinn has just escaped. A mirroring, also, of Quinn's state of mind.

 

The issue of whether God is responsible is also pertinent. The period, of course, represents a period commensurate with the rise of Modernism and the further questioning of the church and established structures. After the war it would be hard to beleive that anything like a merciful God exists....

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optic_i
Posts: 749
Registered: ‎06-26-2011

Re: Week three discussion of Bereft

Week Three
Bereft

1. Quinn tells his mother about the years since he left, but he still refuses to tell her who killed Sarah
What would you have done

 

I think Quinn showed great mercy by not telling his mom on her deathbed that her brother murdered her daughter. It was enough that she believed that Quinn didn't do it.

 

2. Quinn finally confesses to Sadie what happened the day Sarah died after she shows him the “souvenirs” that Robert has kept from his victims.
Do you think he should have told her

 

Yes, they both knew the truth, and they both believed that Dalton was the murderer.

 

3. Since we’ve met Sadie we know that she as her mother did dabble in the occult and when she takes Quinn to the cave of hands and sacrifices the lamb that fact is solidified.

Did the author do a good job of authenticating Sadie as practicer

 

Sadie was trying everything she could think of to protect Quinn, from charms and amulets, to questioning why God would permit evil, all in an attempt to have Quinn kill Dalton and protect her. She also felt strongly that she was doing this for the others, who were also killed by Dalton.

 

4. While in the cemetery sweating in his boots Quinn tells Mrs. Porteous that yes he did meet her husband in Egypt and that yes he did talk about her.
Was this merely a way to avoid his uncle or do you think he did it for the sake of her memory too

 

Yes, I think he was thinking both. He wanted a distraction from his uncle, but Quinn was kind and wanted to ease Mrs. Porteous' pain and keep her husband's memory alive. She desperately wanted someone to remember him.

 

5. Jim Gracie calls Quinn the angel of death and we’re led to believe that he is remorseful of his past actions, he also says that Robert made him do those things.
Do you believe his suicide was because he was sorry or because he would be caught and punished

 

I don't think Gracie wanted to live with what he had done with Dalton. Seeing Quinn tipped him over the edge. He didn't want to track Quinn and Sadie for Dalton. He stayed home when he could have told Dalton he was back. Gracie had also been talking to Mr. Smail of the church, and Gracie tells Quinn, "Our sins will seek us out." Quinn asks Gracie who he thought he was, and Gracie says "The angel of death."

 

6. Was the murder of Robert Dalton necessary to the story, was it overkill, did it fit

 

It wasn't overkill; it was essential. Quinn tells Dalton he is the angel of death, and shoots him dead. Quinn thinks to himself, "the sword of justice after all these years".

 

7. Sometimes I ask you to spring forward to tell us what happened to the characters, in this novel the author has done that for us except for the two that really matter.
So what happened to Quinn and Sadie five years from now

 

They walk away together and find a peaceful and happy life ahead of them.


 

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pen21
Posts: 3,605
Registered: ‎03-23-2009

Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


aprilh wrote:.

 

The real mystery for me throughout this entire book was whether or not I believed that Sadie was Sarah in another life. I find myself going back and forth on this issue. I'm curious what everyone else thinks. Did Sadie just have psychic abilities or was she really Sarah?


Sadie and Sarah really made me think too. I almost thought she was a ghost. It wasn't till almost the end when I made up my mind that they were separate people. I love a book that takes me on a ride like that. :smileyvery-happy:
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pen21
Posts: 3,605
Registered: ‎03-23-2009

Re: Week three discussion of Bereft

Throughout the book I really felt how when Quinn left that there were so many lives left hanging. Especially in Quinn's family. I was glad that Quinn went to visit and spend time with his mother. I think she needed that closure and the peace it gave her. I think it was a good decision that he didn't tell her who killed her daughter. It would not have helped her as she was dying. Sometimes it is better not to know when the truth could hurt so much.

 

I imagine that Quinn and Sadie were in a brother/sister type arrangement. I see Quinn as a very over-protective brother. I see Sadie as very independent.

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optic_i
Posts: 749
Registered: ‎06-26-2011
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Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


whiteginger wrote:

OK.  I finally went to the spoiler thread and got only halfway through the first page before I found this gem from optic.

 

Optic wrote: The theme throughout Bereft to me was abandonment. The abandoned gold mines where people could fall through and never be seen again, created a surreal landscape of people lost, and fit the times perfectly between the plague and the war. Everyone lost someone.

 

Abandonment.  Yes, a big question seems to me:  Has God abandoned man?  Is he watching and judging?  Does he leave earthly justice in the hands of man?  Does He REQUIRE man to be His sword of justice?

 

The abandoned gold mines.  Wow!  What a great connection.  And later Quinn describes the barren land of Australia, of  Flint (wonderful name for the town!).  

 



Hi Ginger,  Has God abandoned man , good question !  Through out Bereft that thought keeps coming up. The people were really put to the test during that time, Plague and WW1. Gracie asks Quinn if all the dead will fit in heaven ? Or have some of the angels and spirits spilled out and are with us now.

Interesting thought. That's what I loved about this story.  

Optic

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ReadingPatti
Posts: 2,365
Registered: ‎10-24-2008

Re: Week three discussion of Bereft

 

dhaupt, this is the second time I have posted my responses. I don't know what happened. It went through yesterday but now they are gone.

 

 

 

Week Three
Bereft

1. Quinn tells his mother about the years since he left, but he still refuses to tell her who killed Sarah
What would you have done- I think he did that to spare his mom any more pain and suffering. He did not want his mom to die with that on her mind.

 

2. Quinn finally confesses to Sadie what happened the day Sarah died after she shows him the “souvenirs” that Robert has kept from his victims.
Do you think he should have told her--Yes, I think it helped Quinn to confess that to Sadie. It was part of his healing.

 

3. Since we’ve met Sadie we know that she as her mother did dabble in the occult and when she takes Quinn to the cave of hands and sacrifices the lamb that fact is solidified.

Did the author do a good job of authenticating Sadie as practicer-Yes, It was a good job.

 

4. While in the cemetery sweating in his boots Quinn tells Mrs. Porteous that yes he did meet her husband in Egypt and that yes he did talk about her.
Was this merely a way to avoid his uncle or do you think he did it for the sake of her memory too-I think Quinn did it for her. To give her some peace of mind.

 

5. Jim Gracie calls Quinn the angel of death and we’re led to believe that he is remorseful of his past actions, he also says that Robert made him do those things.
Do you believe his suicide was because he was sorry or because he would be caught and punished-I think it was a little of both. He was probably sorry but I think he also knew that he would be caught and punished for what he did.

 

6. Was the murder of Robert Dalton necessary to the story, was it overkill, did it fit- Necessary, It was justice for Quinn's sister.

 

7. Sometimes I ask you to spring forward to tell us what happened to the characters, in this novel the author has done that for us except for the two that really matter.
So what happened to Quinn and Sadie five years from now- I would like to think that Quinn and Sadie got together or that they remained friends forever.

 

 

ReadingPatti

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dhaupt
Posts: 11,319
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Re: Week three discussion of Bereft


ReadingPatti wrote:

 

dhaupt, this is the second time I have posted my responses. I don't know what happened. It went through yesterday but now they are gone.

 

 

 

Week Three
Bereft

1. Quinn tells his mother about the years since he left, but he still refuses to tell her who killed Sarah
What would you have done- I think he did that to spare his mom any more pain and suffering. He did not want his mom to die with that on her mind.

 

2. Quinn finally confesses to Sadie what happened the day Sarah died after she shows him the “souvenirs” that Robert has kept from his victims.
Do you think he should have told her--Yes, I think it helped Quinn to confess that to Sadie. It was part of his healing.

 

3. Since we’ve met Sadie we know that she as her mother did dabble in the occult and when she takes Quinn to the cave of hands and sacrifices the lamb that fact is solidified.

Did the author do a good job of authenticating Sadie as practicer-Yes, It was a good job.

 

4. While in the cemetery sweating in his boots Quinn tells Mrs. Porteous that yes he did meet her husband in Egypt and that yes he did talk about her.
Was this merely a way to avoid his uncle or do you think he did it for the sake of her memory too-I think Quinn did it for her. To give her some peace of mind.

 

5. Jim Gracie calls Quinn the angel of death and we’re led to believe that he is remorseful of his past actions, he also says that Robert made him do those things.
Do you believe his suicide was because he was sorry or because he would be caught and punished-I think it was a little of both. He was probably sorry but I think he also knew that he would be caught and punished for what he did.

 

6. Was the murder of Robert Dalton necessary to the story, was it overkill, did it fit- Necessary, It was justice for Quinn's sister.

 

7. Sometimes I ask you to spring forward to tell us what happened to the characters, in this novel the author has done that for us except for the two that really matter.
So what happened to Quinn and Sadie five years from now- I would like to think that Quinn and Sadie got together or that they remained friends forever.

 

 

ReadingPatti


Patti, thanks for your thoughts on the end week of the book

 

I'm sorry that you had trouble posting, it was a widespread problem and I'm told it's okay now.