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m3girl
Posts: 194
Registered: ‎03-02-2007
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

I read chapter eight the other night...

And we finally meet this Dave character.  He's a whole lot like Beth - not sure what he wants to do with his life, doesn't seem very motivated to go get what he wants...they would make a superb loser couple.

Also Dave is jealous of Tal in the same way that Beth is jealous of Sadie - I thought that was interesting and confirms my statement above about the loser couple.

Dave seems to be waiting for success to happen - and it just doesn't happen that way.  Tal is working hard and is quite dedicated to his career - so Dave really shouldn't compare their degrees of success - but he does.  Dave's a quiter...not someone I would admire or like.

He seems to enjoy being miserable.

I like him about as much as I like Beth - not much at all.

Susan 

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Fozzie
Posts: 2,404
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

I enjoyed this section of the book more than the first section because I am now becoming sympathetic towards some characters, something that did not occur for me in the first section of the book.

 

I don't know who was more annoyed with Caitlin in chapter six, me or Sadie.  Actually, I think I was!  I can't stand Caitlin or Rob.

 

I am glad we found out that Beth and Will's sexual relationship became normal after that first, odd encounter!  The suspene was killing me!  LOL!

 

I am thrilled that Beth is not going to marry Dave since he doesn't truly care for her, but I still don't have enough information to know if Will is the right man for her.

 

I don't like Dave, but I am becoming sympathetic towards him as all his friends seem to be moving forward in their lives without him.

 

Meredith said to Dave on page 217:

 

You have these ideas about people, who they are, what they're like, but none of it is real, none of it is based on the actual people or the things they do or say.

 

I don't think this analysis applies just to Dave.  I feel like most, if not all the characters in the book place a lot of emphasis on where people live, where they went to college, who they know, and form more conclusions based on that information than is normal.

Laura

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.
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krb2g
Posts: 289
Registered: ‎02-05-2008
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

These chapters were where the book really began picking up steam; I read the first five chapters piecemeal before Christmas. I picked the book up again on New Year's Eve (after midnight) because I was feeling guilty that I hadn't finished it yet (and was afraid if I waited too long things would be too busy and I wouldn't get around to posting) and got sucked in (I couldn't put it down till I finished it).

 

I found the Caitlin Green-Gold and Sadie scene really amusing. The book might have been a little heavy-handed in lampooning Caitlin (who sounded really ridiculous, at least to me), and the fact that an FBI agent was keeping tabs on them (and picked up Sadie as she was leaving) was a bit over-the-top, but I really got into that scene. I didn't blame Sadie so much for not telling Lil; that's a hard position to have, and the friends didn't seem particularly close after college (or they didn't seem to be having the sort of daily interactions that lead to that level of comfort talking about something so personal).

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HannibalCat
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎10-25-2006
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine


fordmg wrote:

booksJT wrote:
First of all I thought Sadie's scenes with Caitlin were odd. If she was Lil's friend she should have told her about the affair or completely avoided Caitlin. Instead she meets with this woman to discuss her friends realtionship with her husband.  At this point I don't consider her a friend of Lil's. It was as if Caitlin was trying to persuade her to become her friend instead of Lil's. Caitlin's  explanation as to why she was having this affair didn't make sense and Sadie should have seen through it. Even if she didn't want to say anything she should have avoided discussing Lil with Catilin. I am glad to see that Beth finally realized what type of person Dave really was. He was the one holding her back from finding happiness some where else. I found Dave's character to be a product of society that believes that they have certain entitlements.  His disppointments in  life led to a less meaningful realtionship with Meredith. This was the one person he thought he could have a life with him.

 

I agree that this chapter is strange.  I don't know if I think Sadie should tell Lil about the afair with Caitlin, we don't really know how serious the afair is.  Maybe just a one time thing.  Is Caitlin an believable character?   I don't understand why Sadie went there in the first place, and why did she stay as long as she did.  The description of Caitlin's appartment was disgusting (the appartment, not the description).  I wouldn't spend 5 minutes there.  Just spit out what you want to say, and let me out of there.

MG


I have to agree with you about Caitlin and Sadie's conversation. What I am finding, as I read more and more of this book, is that I like the writing more and more, and dislike the characters more and more. They all seem so vapid and self-centered that it is difficult to like them. I empathize with them, but I don't understand all the dissociation that they feel toward their good friends.
 But - and this is a big but - I can't stop reading the darn book. I want to see them grow up and become part of life - not society - life. They don't really seem to be living their own lives as much as they think they are. 
Kudos to the author, she certainly has a way with words and I am greatly impressed with her ability to let us see her characters. An amazing accomplishment. 

 

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HannibalCat
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎10-25-2006
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine


miller1323 wrote:

I might be the minority, but I'm really enjoying the writing style.  I think the whole point is to provide incredibly well rounded characters.  So what the author does is let us see the characters through their eyes as well as their parents, friends, and aquaintances. As seen by Sadie we see the worst of the Green-Gold's politics...affairs, disgusting used furniture, sour coffee, etc...  But then the Rose sees their activism as exciting which prompts even Sadie to change course and become flattered by the idea that she might have influenced such a demonstration.

 

The author does go off on tangents, but it's just one of the ways she puts us in these characters heads.  We almost get a stream of concious approach to the narration.  She even details their though processes.  Like the scene where Sadie is confronting Caitlin,  we even get her inner dialogue.  The conversation is exasperating to read, as it must have been for Sadie to participate in. 

 

Another thing I am loving is how we casually get brought up to date on the other characters in the group.  When Beth announces her marriage or we learn that Sadie dumped Tal, we are desperate for the details. I think the desire to have the details filled in propels the story forward in an interesting and way.

 

Overall I find these tactics fresh, dymanic and effective.


I do too. I am really enjoying this book. It would seem the tangents are the place where we really get to know the people in the book. I agree, her tactics are wonderful. 

 

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mgorbatjuk
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎04-12-2008
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

I'm enjoying reading the book. I can't say I like any of the characters but a lot of them I can relate to as having friends like them at one time or another. Now that I'm further in the book I can visualize the people and the places in the book. (Whether they really exist or not) I would like to believe as these people get married and have kids they will grow up a little but I guess that's still to be seen.
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EJD0626
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎09-13-2008
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

I cannot believe that Sadie didn't tell Lil about Tuck's affair. I would be FURIOUS if one of my "best friends" kept such information from me!

I am so glad that Beth grew up & realized that Dave is not the man for her. He was such an immature, delusional pain in the ass. I wanted to shake him & tell him to hurry up & grow up. He really had no idea of how people perceived him at all. It was so odd. I am glad that Meredith told him the truth about who he is.

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DSaff
Posts: 2,048
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

I agree with you, Hannibalcat. The characters need to grow up, and I find myself encouraging them as I read along. They seem detached from the real world, but, there is more book to read!  =)


HannibalCat wrote:
   
I have to agree with you about Caitlin and Sadie's conversation. What I am finding, as I read more and more of this book, is that I like the writing more and more, and dislike the characters more and more. They all seem so vapid and self-centered that it is difficult to like them. I empathize with them, but I don't understand all the dissociation that they feel toward their good friends.
 But - and this is a big but - I can't stop reading the darn book. I want to see them grow up and become part of life - not society - life. They don't really seem to be living their own lives as much as they think they are. 
Kudos to the author, she certainly has a way with words and I am greatly impressed with her ability to let us see her characters. An amazing accomplishment. 

 


 

 
DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
My blog: http://bookworm56.blogspot.com
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biljounc63
Posts: 189
Registered: ‎11-02-2008
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

I was really expecting a book about a group of close friends but this book is far from that.  Before starting the book I was picturing the group to be something like the television series "Friends" that focuses on a group of people that were together just about 24.
Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body.
~ Joseph Addison ~

"Reading lets you visit the world of another"
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detailmuse
Posts: 180
Registered: ‎01-24-2008
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine


mgorbatjuk wrote:
I'm enjoying reading the book. I can't say I like any of the characters but a lot of them I can relate to as having friends like them at one time or another. Now that I'm further in the book I can visualize the people and the places in the book. (Whether they really exist or not) I would like to believe as these people get married and have kids they will grow up a little but I guess that's still to be seen.

I began the book thinking the characters were alien to me, but over time the book has really taken me back to my own late-20s and so much seems familiar! The characters are immature but I wonder how any of us would sound, even right now, if an omniscient narrator had access to our interior thoughts, fears, whines, wishes, etc.?

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nmccarthy
Posts: 35
Registered: ‎12-29-2007
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine


Re76 wrote:

no4daughter wrote:

I enjoyed chapters 6 - 9 much more than the first five.  That being said, I am still struggling with keeping the characters straight.  For example, when I read the first sentence of chapter nine that says, "Curtis Lang met Emily Kaplan at a party given by Dave Kohane..."  I had to go back and figure out who, exactly, Emily was.  I don't know if I am confusing the girls because they all work in the same industry or because so much information about others is presented in between their appearances.  Regardless, I feel like I am an idiot when I read this book.  I read lots and lots of stuff both for pleasure and in my job and I have never had this much trouble keeping track of previously presented information. 


 

I also had the same issue. I am not sure why I am having such a difficult time either keeping the characters in this book straight. It is like there are several short stories combined into the book, without the connecting threads to bring the story together.

Renee


 

Ditto for me too. I think between the use of "everyday", familiar names such as Beth, Emily, Dave and Caitlin and the afore mentioned similar schooling and work backgrounds and "short story" concept, I'm having to review past chapters to remember the characters. Sadie and Tal are easier to remember because of their unusual names.

 

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chadadanielleKR
Posts: 368
Registered: ‎10-29-2006
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

So did I. I enjoyed reading chapter six through nine better than the previous ones. But I sometimes get confused with the charaters and the places' name as well. I don't know N.Y area and sometimes I wish there was a map where I could locate the places mentioned.

This would give a clearer picture of the characters' life since their appartments's location is mentioned quite often and it does seem to matter for themselves and the other members of the group.


no4daughter wrote:

I enjoyed chapters 6 - 9 much more than the first five.  That being said, I am still struggling with keeping the characters straight.  For example, when I read the first sentence of chapter nine that says, "Curtis Lang met Emily Kaplan at a party given by Dave Kohane..."  I had to go back and figure out who, exactly, Emily was.  I don't know if I am confusing the girls because they all work in the same industry or because so much information about others is presented in between their appearances.  Regardless, I feel like I am an idiot when I read this book.  I read lots and lots of stuff both for pleasure and in my job and I have never had this much trouble keeping track of previously presented information. 


 

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m3girl
Posts: 194
Registered: ‎03-02-2007
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

I read chapter nine today and you know, I still don't like Dave.  I think I like him even less.  I can't believe he can't get his lazy butt to the store to buy the supplies for his party.  Instead he asks Emily - who may be too nice just like Sadie.

Time has passed and I'm eager to hear what happened with Lil and Tuck after his arrest and with the affair with Caitlin.  And also with Will and Beth - did they get married?  Is he still so strange?

Dave's girlfriend - or whatever she is - Meredith sounds too good for him.  And I'm not surprised by her assessment at the end of the chapter.  I was a little surprised about her engagement but really happy that she's smart and realized that Dave wasn't a good catch.

Dave seems jealous of Curtis and Emily - probably not because he wants to be with Emily but maybe because he sees everyone else finding someone and he's all alone.

I think we get the first description of Dave and Emily - both with reddish hair....

He doesn't seem to really like anyone - least of all himself.

Is Dave really in love with Sadie?  I didn't see that....It's interesting that she dumped Tal for the FBI agent....I think she is moving in the right direction - away from college.

After this chapter - I end up with more questions than answers...

 

Susan 

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CKindianCB
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎12-06-2008
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

I agree with many of you.  If they are all such good friends, why would they not tell a close friend about an affair that really effects the group as a whole.  I don't think I could sit in the same room with Caitlin knowing what we know about her and Tuck.

I still am not sure about this book. I have read the entire book and still don't really know all of these characters. 

Wordsmith
maude40
Posts: 357
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

There's a couple of quotes in chapter six that I really like.

 

Page 134, "Well, it's just, if you make every single choice in your life based on how that choice affects the entire world, then you never get to have any fun." This is in the conversation Sadie and Caitlin are having and of course Lil and Rob aren't considered as Caitlin and Tuck are having their affair. I, like everyone else, think Sadie should have told Lil about what was going on.

 

Page 135, "But he believes--it's kind of an anarchist collective thing--that we should live as close as possible to the proverty level." We would probably all be better off if we practiced this to some degree.

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maude40
Posts: 357
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

I thought the protest about the prisons on page 144 -146 was very clever. I loved the black and white stripes on all the clothes. What a great way to make a point.
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maude40
Posts: 357
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

The chapter on Dave was very intense. Like some of the other people posting have said, I'm feeling a little more for him than before. He needs to find his way as he's going through life on hold relying on others to find his way for him. Yvonne
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biljounc63
Posts: 189
Registered: ‎11-02-2008
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine

[ Edited ]

maude40 wrote:
I thought the protest about the prisons on page 144 -146 was very clever. I loved the black and white stripes on all the clothes. What a great way to make a point.

I liked that part as well but what was the outcome of it. After hearing of Tucks arrest there really was nothing else mentioned about it so far anyways. I would of liked to know more about it.

Message Edited by biljounc63 on 01-19-2009 10:51 AM
Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body.
~ Joseph Addison ~

"Reading lets you visit the world of another"
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KxBurns
Posts: 1,006
Registered: ‎09-06-2007
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine


nmccarthy wrote:

KxBurns wrote:

I don't know -- I think he's just young and immature. And it doesn't surprise me that he even lags behind the girls in the group in emotional maturity. I thought the scene with Meredith was just excruciating -- especially coming on the heels of his disastrous attempt to keep Emily from leaving with Curtis, who Dave sees as a younger, but successful, version of himself. With Meredith, Dave invests the relationship with a seriousness and significance that are completely out of touch with reality. I get the sense he thinks he can will things into being as he would like them to be.

 

And why does Curtis inspire such insecurity in Dave? Because it seems like everything comes to Curtis so effortlessly, whereas Dave feels like everything is a struggle for him. He does not recognize that to the rest of us, he seems lazy and ineffectual.

 

The differences between reality and Dave's self-pitying perceptions come down to simple immaturity, in my opinion. It doesn't seem like Dave is a bad person, so I feel like all that needs to change for him to be fine is gaining a little persepctive and opening his eyes to the fact that everyone works hard for what they want. Success in relationships or careers doesn't just magically appear if you want it badly enough, or if you're born lucky, like Curtis.


 

I think late 20's is pretty old to still be immature. If he is just an incredibly late bloomer, then hopefully the right woman and/or a life objective worth fighting for is in his near future. He's a "glass is half empty" kind of guy right now.


Not for this generation, I don't think...

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aprilh
Posts: 424
Registered: ‎09-25-2008
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Re: Chapters Six through Nine


biljounc63 wrote:

maude40 wrote:
I thought the protest about the prisons on page 144 -146 was very clever. I loved the black and white stripes on all the clothes. What a great way to make a point.

I liked that part as well but what was the outcome of it. After hearing of Tucks arrest there really was nothing else mentioned about it so far anyways. I would of liked to know more about it.

Message Edited by biljounc63 on 01-19-2009 10:51 AM

 

I agree. The description of the protest made the book really start to pick up for me. I was anxiously flipping pages to see what would happen and then nothing else was mentioned. It was driving me crazy. What happened to Tuck, how did Lil feel? And where was she that night?
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