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KxBurns
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Sadie

Share your thoughts about Sadie. What about this character causes people to be drawn to her? What are some of her flaws?

 

What do her interactions with Caitlin Green-Gold, in their two lengthy encounters, reveal about Sadie?

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Chatterbox
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Re: Sadie

I think I had made this point in my post on the chapters board, but I'll restate it here...

The first interview with Caitlin, coming on the heels of conversations with her mother, almost made me laugh aloud. After resisting what she sees as her mother's intrusions, she proceeds to occupy exactly the same role with Caitlin -- judging, interfering -- without realizing that she is doing what she resents in others, especially the older generation. Even before she is 'settled' in life, in this encounter it becomes clear to me what Sadie values: order, good behavior, some kind of rules, etc. Her dislike of Caitlin -- the smelly futon, the smoking, the lack of an ability to jerk herself out of her malaise ("Just go over to the library on Devoe and get a bunch of good novels. Dickens, Austen, the Brontes.") This makes her ultimate decision to abandon her career, have children and join what Dave calls "The World of We" more comprehensible, even inevitable. You end up feeling as if you knew it all along -- that she was becoming her mother. The only difference is that you never see her mother's perspective from the inside, only from Sadie's point of view.

 

Indeed, Sadie, I feel, lives to instill order among her friends. I don't see a lot of real empathy (in contrast to Emily, later); her concerns appear primarily self-focused. (Perhaps that is natural -- her reaction to the Beslan atrocity is an example of that.) She's an intriguing character, but I don't find her compelling and I am struggling with what allegedly makes her the center of the group. Possibly because she plays such a role in trying to whip the others into shape -- getting a book contract for Tuck (although he doesn't deliver, 'failing' her), prodding Dave into talking to to Curtis about his songs and then going behind his back, etc.

 

The second encounter with Caitlin, in chapter 14, is a hilarious contrast to the first. Caitlin has addressed all the issues that Sadie first had with her. She doesn't live in squalor, has what seems (from an impartial perspective) to be a successful relationship, a child, a beautiful apartment. But she didn't do it Sadie's way, and it seems to shake her up. When Caitlin asks if both she and Ed work at home, Sadie chooses to react in a way that enables her to maintain a degree of hostility to Caitlin: "Sadie sighed. Caitlin had not changed. She still traded on forced intimacies. As always, she'd proceeded right to the heart of the matter -- that is, asked a leading question. For surely she knew, from Lil -- who knew from Emily and Beth and Dave -- that Ed was often away." In fact, this could have been a polite question; nothing in it beyond Sadie's response indicates anything more provocative; what is telling is how Sadie reacts to the question and her assumptions. 

 

Interestingly, toward the end of that encounter, she finds herself asking Caitlin what the latter thinks she, Sadie should do, "a question she had een afraid to raise with any of  her friends" or, indeed, ask of herself. The tables have turned, and Sadie is very uncomfortable by that and with a recognition of a lack of control in this relationship now. Caitlin is the one person who keeps Sadie off-kilter and uncertain.

 

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Shadowwolf36
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Re: Sadie

In the beginning  I thought Sadie might become my favorite character but in the end, I was wrong. If you look at everything closely, she pretty much cares only about herself and how everyone might view her. She treats her friendship with disdain -- not telling Lil about Tuck especially after the conversation with Caitlin and allowing her friendship with Lil go rather than fight for it. Cheating on Mr. FBI  guy shows her lack of concern about others. There is more but I don't have the book in front of me and don't want to throw any spoilers into the mix but by the time the book ended...I almost despised her....I could not find many redeeming qualities........if you have so much disdain for the smelly couch etc at Caitlin's then leave....do you feel this urge to know everything about everyone? Go and don't listen to her...you aren't friends with her in any case....why be the keeper of HER secrets....makes no sense to me.
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booksJT
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Re: Sadie

Sadie was not my favorite at this point in the story. The fact that she was willing to give up her years of friendship with Lil was wrong She was never a friend if she could do this to Lil. If she was my best friend I would expect her to respect my privacy and not make it  her business to have a discussion with a stranger. She didn't think how Lil would feel if she ever found out about the affair.  I don't understand how she was able to keep quiet about this after all Lil went through before she died. As far as the cheating on the FBI guy there really was no logical reason for it. She either wanted the realtionship to work or she didn't. In the end Sadie turn out to be selfish and uncaring. 
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Grace2133
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Re: Sadie

I liked Sadie when I first began the novel. I couldn't even tell you why I liked her, I just did. She seemed to me like the most intelligent of the group. Not only intellectually but emotionally. That is why I could not reconcile her not telling Lil about Tuck. I would have immediately told my friend that her husband was cheating on her especially with someone she was friendly with. It seemed almost a betrayal of a friend and quite selfish.
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KxBurns
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Re: Sadie

I'm surprised that you feel so strongly negative about Sadie so far. Certainly her betrayal of Lil by not telling about Tuck and Caitlin's affair is unforgivable. Can anyone speculate as to why Sadie kept this horrible secret to herself? Did anyone see some redeeming qualitities in this character?

 

Also, just a reminder that only the chapter-oriented threads need to be free of spoilers from latter parts of the book. You may discuss the entire book on this thread and others that are character- or theme-centric.

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kiakar
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Re: Sadie

I have heard said that if you get into your friend's marriage in anyway, it means you will loose a friend. Sometimes that person already knows about the cheating and just does not want to imformed about it. Maybe Sadie read that in Lil. I feel that Lil did just want to be safe, it wasn't her greatest love of her life thing but a feeling of belonging. And she didnt want to risk losing Lil as a friend.  I am so glad this has never happened to me because I would want to tell my friend that her significant other is cheating but ...... How will she react?

 

 

 

 


KxBurns wrote:

I'm surprised that you feel so strongly negative about Sadie so far. Certainly her betrayal of Lil by not telling about Tuck and Caitlin's affair is unforgivable. Can anyone speculate as to why Sadie kept this horrible secret to herself? Did anyone see some redeeming qualitities in this character?

 

Also, just a reminder that only the chapter-oriented threads need to be free of spoilers from latter parts of the book. You may discuss the entire book on this thread and others that are character- or theme-centric.


 

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aprilh
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Re: Sadie


KxBurns wrote:

I'm surprised that you feel so strongly negative about Sadie so far. Certainly her betrayal of Lil by not telling about Tuck and Caitlin's affair is unforgivable. Can anyone speculate as to why Sadie kept this horrible secret to herself? Did anyone see some redeeming qualitities in this character?


 

At this point, it seems Lil and Sadie are not really all that close. Telling Lil of the affair would probably have damaged their relationship more. What if Lil chose not to believe Sadie. That would have been more than their friendship could have handled.
April
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KxBurns
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Re: Sadie

Chatterbox, I love your analysis of Sadie's two encounters with Caitlin. Caitlin definitely threatens Sadie's sense of propriety and order and brings out the judgmental, even snobbish side of Sadie. At the same time, part of her revulsion for Caitlin at the point of their first meeting is moral, on the grounds that Caitlin is not just engaging in an affair but using some high-minded pseudofeminist argument to justify it. Sadie's not entirely wrong in her disapproval here, to my mind.

 

I also think she quite rightfully sees through Caitlin's anarchist posturing and her self-consciously ascetic lifestyle. She recognizes it as a carefully constructed persona, which is part of why Sadie is caught so off-guard when she runs into Caitlin at the playground and sees how dramatically she has reinvented herself. In this regard, Caitlin also provides a real contrast to Sadie herself, who seems to struggle less with her identity than any of the other characters in the book. She struggles with her relationships and her career aspirations, but there is always this quality about her that she is, if not comfortably then at least undoubtedly, herself -- her mother's daughter, a Peregrine, a born-and-bred Upper East Sider, a member of the group who never doubts her central place. (Did anyone read this character differently, though?...)

 

I think the interplay between Sadie and Caitlin is one of the most fascinating things about the book! I'd love to hear someone's thoughts on their respective approaches to motherhood...

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Tarri
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Re: Sadie


kiakar wrote:

I have heard said that if you get into your friend's marriage in anyway, it means you will loose a friend. Sometimes that person already knows about the cheating and just does not want to imformed about it. Maybe Sadie read that in Lil. I feel that Lil did just want to be safe, it wasn't her greatest love of her life thing but a feeling of belonging. And she didnt want to risk losing Lil as a friend.  I am so glad this has never happened to me because I would want to tell my friend that her significant other is cheating but ...... How will she react?

 

 

 

 


KxBurns wrote:

I'm surprised that you feel so strongly negative about Sadie so far. Certainly her betrayal of Lil by not telling about Tuck and Caitlin's affair is unforgivable. Can anyone speculate as to why Sadie kept this horrible secret to herself? Did anyone see some redeeming qualitities in this character?

 

Also, just a reminder that only the chapter-oriented threads need to be free of spoilers from latter parts of the book. You may discuss the entire book on this thread and others that are character- or theme-centric.


 


I completely agree with Kiakar.  The fastest way to lose a friend is to put yourself into their marriage.  I think if she had told Lil, Lil would find a way to make Sadie the issue (i.e., Sadie is jealous or something like that). 

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Tarri
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Re: Sadie


KxBurns wrote:

Share your thoughts about Sadie. What about this character causes people to be drawn to her? What are some of her flaws?

 

What do her interactions with Caitlin Green-Gold, in their two lengthy encounters, reveal about Sadie?


I like Sadie.  I think she is the most ambitious of the group and that her personality makes people want to be her friend. 

 

A flaw that I see is that she avoids conflict (she should have told Caitlin just what she thought of her), and she didn't tell Lil (or anyone in her group) about Tuck's affair. 

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mattzay
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Re: Sadie

I think it is very hard to tell a friend that his/her spouse is cheating. I do not know I could do it unless I had proof and even then it would be hard to do. Maybe you are right kiakar. Sometimes the person knows and looks the other way for one way or another. I had a friend whom I believed her boyfriend was cheating on her but did not tell her because I only had speculation. Eventually she broke up with him and mentioned that she was aware of his cheating but did not want to be alone. I think to some extent that is what Lil is feeling. She changed her life and her views to marry Tuck and appears to not know how to move on. She even stays closest to her views of after college life then the other friends.
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KxBurns
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Re: Sadie


Tarri wrote:

KxBurns wrote:

Share your thoughts about Sadie. What about this character causes people to be drawn to her? What are some of her flaws?

 

What do her interactions with Caitlin Green-Gold, in their two lengthy encounters, reveal about Sadie?


I like Sadie.  I think she is the most ambitious of the group and that her personality makes people want to be her friend. 

 

A flaw that I see is that she avoids conflict (she should have told Caitlin just what she thought of her), and she didn't tell Lil (or anyone in her group) about Tuck's affair. 


 

This is good, Tarri. Tell me more of your thoughts about Sadie and ambition. I think ambition is an interesting trait in this novel because I doubt many of the characters would cop to being ambitious, although certainly there are things they want, and want to achieve. But the appearance of aspiring to any kind of material success seems taboo...
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Shadowwolf36
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Re: Sadie


Tarri wrote:

kiakar wrote:

I have heard said that if you get into your friend's marriage in anyway, it means you will loose a friend. Sometimes that person already knows about the cheating and just does not want to imformed about it. Maybe Sadie read that in Lil. I feel that Lil did just want to be safe, it wasn't her greatest love of her life thing but a feeling of belonging. And she didnt want to risk losing Lil as a friend.  I am so glad this has never happened to me because I would want to tell my friend that her significant other is cheating but ...... How will she react?

 

 

 

 


KxBurns wrote:

I'm surprised that you feel so strongly negative about Sadie so far. Certainly her betrayal of Lil by not telling about Tuck and Caitlin's affair is unforgivable. Can anyone speculate as to why Sadie kept this horrible secret to herself? Did anyone see some redeeming qualitities in this character?

 

Also, just a reminder that only the chapter-oriented threads need to be free of spoilers from latter parts of the book. You may discuss the entire book on this thread and others that are character- or theme-centric.


 


I completely agree with Kiakar.  The fastest way to lose a friend is to put yourself into their marriage.  I think if she had told Lil, Lil would find a way to make Sadie the issue (i.e., Sadie is jealous or something like that). 


 

But in the end, the friendship slipped away anyways.  I would have imagined that if her intent was to not hurt Lil, she would have made more of an effort and fought to keep their friendship. If her worry was more about how it would fall back on Sadie, then once again, she is thinking only of herself. Lil was doing everything she could to keep her marriage going and not knowing that she really had no chance to be happy if Tuck was constantly straying wasn't really fair. In the end, she lost Lil and Lil lost Tuck and then later her life.....Sadie couldn't fix that in the end nor do I think she even wanted to. She just figured she deserved to lose Lil's friendship.
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dhaupt
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Re: Sadie

Behind Beth, Sadie is my favorite character.

I think she is very genuine and  giving and I don't find anything false about her, even to the point that she can't break up w/one boyfriend before taking up with another one. I like her ethics in work and about her friends, she doesn't want to do anything to jeopardize any of her relationships to the extent that people take advantage of her. She also doesn't reveal things about her friends that I think she should have like Tuck's unfaithfulness to Lil and she should have drop-kicked Caitlin from the get go.

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debbook
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Re: Sadie

I mostly liked Sadie the best but I was annoyed with the scenes between her and Caitlin. I think Sadie was probably right not to tell Lil, but she seemed to get so caught up for awhile with listening to Caitlin talk about Tuck and that seemed to me, more of a betrayal than not telling Lil.

I did feel that Sadie was the most down to earth, but she never seems happy in the book. I don't think she regrets the choices she made, but she doesn't seem at peace.

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fordmg
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Re: Sadie


KxBurns wrote:

I'm surprised that you feel so strongly negative about Sadie so far. Certainly her betrayal of Lil by not telling about Tuck and Caitlin's affair is unforgivable. Can anyone speculate as to why Sadie kept this horrible secret to herself? Did anyone see some redeeming qualitities in this character?

 

Also, just a reminder that only the chapter-oriented threads need to be free of spoilers from latter parts of the book. You may discuss the entire book on this thread and others that are character- or theme-centric.


 

It is not always good to tell of indescretions of another's spouse.  By being the bearer of the "bad" news, the news also gets attached to the messenger.  It isn't always weakness to keep the info to yourself.  By telling, it will force Lil to make a decision. - confront Tuck, Caitlin or both.  All relationships are different going forward.   Who wants to be responsible for that?

MG

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kiakar
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Re: Sadie

Yes, You hit the nail on the head, in other words, Sadie shouldn't have listened to Caitlin talking about her friends to begin with and then she wouldn't have had to worry about telling Lil anything. But I guess we are all curious as to what kind of information the gossiper is spilling. But I do think she should have given it a ernest try and stayed away from Caitlin or say hey "gotta go."

 

 


booksJT wrote:
Sadie was not my favorite at this point in the story. The fact that she was willing to give up her years of friendship with Lil was wrong She was never a friend if she could do this to Lil. If she was my best friend I would expect her to respect my privacy and not make it  her business to have a discussion with a stranger. She didn't think how Lil would feel if she ever found out about the affair.  I don't understand how she was able to keep quiet about this after all Lil went through before she died. As far as the cheating on the FBI guy there really was no logical reason for it. She either wanted the realtionship to work or she didn't. In the end Sadie turn out to be selfish and uncaring. 

 

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kiakar
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Sadie

Tarri, alot of times when a man is cheating, like I take it about Lil, she didn't want to know. She had bound to have known something was not right. But we do keep things buried sometimes even from ourselves not wanting to go through the pain and suffering you go through finding out about an affair. Sometimes it all blows in your face and then you have to wake up.

 

 

 


Tarri wrote:

kiakar wrote:

I have heard said that if you get into your friend's marriage in anyway, it means you will loose a friend. Sometimes that person already knows about the cheating and just does not want to imformed about it. Maybe Sadie read that in Lil. I feel that Lil did just want to be safe, it wasn't her greatest love of her life thing but a feeling of belonging. And she didnt want to risk losing Lil as a friend.  I am so glad this has never happened to me because I would want to tell my friend that her significant other is cheating but ...... How will she react?

 

 

 

 


KxBurns wrote:

I'm surprised that you feel so strongly negative about Sadie so far. Certainly her betrayal of Lil by not telling about Tuck and Caitlin's affair is unforgivable. Can anyone speculate as to why Sadie kept this horrible secret to herself? Did anyone see some redeeming qualitities in this character?

 

Also, just a reminder that only the chapter-oriented threads need to be free of spoilers from latter parts of the book. You may discuss the entire book on this thread and others that are character- or theme-centric.


 


I completely agree with Kiakar.  The fastest way to lose a friend is to put yourself into their marriage.  I think if she had told Lil, Lil would find a way to make Sadie the issue (i.e., Sadie is jealous or something like that). 


 

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maryfrancesa
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Registered: ‎10-29-2006
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Re: Sadie

I don't believe Sadie was wrong in not telling Lil about the affair, but I wonder why she spent any time with Catilin I would have tried not to get involved.  Any friend that tells another friend about their spouses cheating loosees a friend.  Also how close was Sadie to Lil after the wedding.?

We do not know what knid of relationship she had with Mr FRI Mike, he was never around much so was this an exclusive relationship or not.

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