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Wordsmith
Tarri
Posts: 457
Registered: ‎02-26-2007
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Re: Sadie


KxBurns wrote:

Tarri wrote:

KxBurns wrote:

Share your thoughts about Sadie. What about this character causes people to be drawn to her? What are some of her flaws?

 

What do her interactions with Caitlin Green-Gold, in their two lengthy encounters, reveal about Sadie?


I like Sadie.  I think she is the most ambitious of the group and that her personality makes people want to be her friend. 

 

A flaw that I see is that she avoids conflict (she should have told Caitlin just what she thought of her), and she didn't tell Lil (or anyone in her group) about Tuck's affair. 


 

This is good, Tarri. Tell me more of your thoughts about Sadie and ambition. I think ambition is an interesting trait in this novel because I doubt many of the characters would cop to being ambitious, although certainly there are things they want, and want to achieve. But the appearance of aspiring to any kind of material success seems taboo...

Sadie took work home all the time and also took care to cover for her boss, even though she really wanted the promotion.  She also suggested Tuck write a book about Ed, and while that was partially to help Lil, I think it showed that Sadie was aware of possible new projects and how they could help her career.  

Wordsmith
Tarri
Posts: 457
Registered: ‎02-26-2007
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Re: Sadie


maryfrancesa wrote:

I don't believe Sadie was wrong in not telling Lil about the affair, but I wonder why she spent any time with Catilin I would have tried not to get involved.  Any friend that tells another friend about their spouses cheating loosees a friend.  Also how close was Sadie to Lil after the wedding.?

We do not know what knid of relationship she had with Mr FRI Mike, he was never around much so was this an exclusive relationship or not.


I think that this is an excellent question for the author.  In my opinion, Sadie spent time with Caitlin because Sadie didn't know how to get out of meeting with her.  Sadie was obviously uncomfortable, but she had trouble finding an excuse to leave Caitlin's apartment.  

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Shadowwolf36
Posts: 76
Registered: ‎09-16-2008
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Re: Sadie


Tarri wrote:

I think that this is an excellent question for the author.  In my opinion, Sadie spent time with Caitlin because Sadie didn't know how to get out of meeting with her.  Sadie was obviously uncomfortable, but she had trouble finding an excuse to leave Caitlin's apartment.  


 


Life is too short to spend time with people you don't like. Yes she couldn't get out of meeting up with her but if they weren't friends or even more than a passing acquaintance, why go up to her apartment in the first place. At first I am thinking it is mostly curiousity especially since she already suspected her of having an affair with tuck but the second time -- why bother.....why spend time with someone you are just going to turn around and knock or mock or whatever. Just say no is for more than drugs.....if a passing acquaintance especially one that I had nothing in common with and didn't particularly like in the first place invited me up to her place, I would say I am sorry but I am on my way to meet my family which is what Sadie should have said. Perhaps the author needed Sadie to stay in order to introduce the FBI guy into the story....

 

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KxBurns
Posts: 1,006
Registered: ‎09-06-2007
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Re: Sadie


Shadowwolf36 wrote:

Tarri wrote:

I think that this is an excellent question for the author.  In my opinion, Sadie spent time with Caitlin because Sadie didn't know how to get out of meeting with her.  Sadie was obviously uncomfortable, but she had trouble finding an excuse to leave Caitlin's apartment.  


 


Life is too short to spend time with people you don't like. Yes she couldn't get out of meeting up with her but if they weren't friends or even more than a passing acquaintance, why go up to her apartment in the first place. At first I am thinking it is mostly curiousity especially since she already suspected her of having an affair with tuck but the second time -- why bother.....why spend time with someone you are just going to turn around and knock or mock or whatever. Just say no is for more than drugs.....if a passing acquaintance especially one that I had nothing in common with and didn't particularly like in the first place invited me up to her place, I would say I am sorry but I am on my way to meet my family which is what Sadie should have said. Perhaps the author needed Sadie to stay in order to introduce the FBI guy into the story....

 


 

I think her not being able to just say no to Caitlin fits into Sadie's character, though. At the first meeting, I believe she was prompted by needing some clarity on what she'd seen the night before. Once at Caitlin's apartment, she couldn't come up with a polite way to leave so she stayed until she could absolutely bear it no longer. At their second meeting, there is that awkward moment where Caitlin wants Sadie to come up to her place, and Sadie seems to not be able to think of a good reason not to.

 

Throughout the book, Sadie is portrayed as having a sense of decorum befitting someone of an older generation (Rose's), and I think most of her actions make sense when viewed in this light. Even not telling Lil about the affair. She is discrete. I liked this about Sadie -- I think it makes her a more interesting character. What does she gain or lose because of her, some would say outdated, notions of propriety? What about the area of her life in which she breaks the rules -- her romantic relationships, which usually start before the previous one has ended. How does that pan out for her?

 

In a larger sense, the presence of a character like Sadie -- especially contrasted with a someone like Caitlin, who seems vulgar by comparison -- begs the question of whether there is a place for this sense of decorum in the modern world, which puts a greater emphasis on being "real" and on genuine expression without the facade of social rules. Does Sadie's sense of decorum represent a code of morality or just manners?

Distinguished Correspondent
chris227
Posts: 111
Registered: ‎12-02-2008
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Re: Sadie

[ Edited ]

I personally don't think that Sadie is a bad person.  Although I may not agree with everything she did I think I somewhat understand her reasoning.  We learn early about Sadie that she was a very unpopular child and had no friends growing up and that she 'came into her beauty later in life.'  I think that all of the decisions that she makes are a product of this friendless childhood.  She's afraid to be friendless again.  As far as Caitlin is concerned she may not like Caitlin but she doesn't want Caitlin to dislike her.  That is why she goes and spends an extended period at Caitlin's even though she finds it disgusting.  I don't agree with her cheating on her boyfriends but I think that that too is because she's afraid to be alone.  Tal is about to leave to work on his movie just as she meets FBI guy and then FBI guy is always away somewhere working and then she finds Ed interested in her.  Though she talks initially about not wanting the baby I think secretly she is thrilled - she won't have to worry about being alone now - I think that is why after the baby is born Sadie is always references as holding little Jack against her chest.  As far as her not telling Lil I think she was afraid Lil would be mad at her for accusing Tuck and she would lose her friend.  Yes this may all be selfish and immoral but Sadie is not thinking about right and wrong she is thinking that she will be all alone and friendless again.

 

 

 

Message Edited by chris227 on 01-16-2009 02:55 PM
Inspired Wordsmith
krb2g
Posts: 289
Registered: ‎02-05-2008
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Re: Sadie

Another aspect of the whole Sadie not telling Lil about Caitlin and Tuck's affair question is that Sadie was publishing Tuck's book at that time (she saw them together at the party celebrating the contract, and if I remember correctly, the book still seemed to be somewhat of a going concern when Caitlin unburdened her guilty conscience on Sadie). I think it's worth considering that Sadie might not have wanted to stir any domestic pot that might have distracted Tuck from writing the book he was supposed to be writing. While that reason in itself is not a particularly ethical one for not telling Lil, I also agree with the people that have pointed out that sometimes friends don't want to be told (I have a hard time getting a handle on exactly what Lil wants, though).

 

Generally, I really liked Sadie. Sure, she made mistakes (seeing Ed while she was still dating Mr. FBI was one), but she seemed somehow steadier than some of the other characters. 

Correspondent
bookowlie
Posts: 177
Registered: ‎04-15-2008
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Re: Sadie

In general, I liked Sadie's character.  Still, I felt she shouldn't have spent time listening to Caitlin.  I felt it was disloyal.  Sadie likes order in her life and her encounters with Caitlin make her uncomfortable.

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nfam
Posts: 231
Registered: ‎01-08-2007
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Re: Sadie

Sadie is not my favorite character. She seems extremely weak. Why listen to Caitlin for so long and then avoid telling Lil the unpleasant truth. Maybe she would lose her friend, but if she worried about that why even listen to Caitlin. I found the whole exchange tedious.

 

Perhaps we're supposed to understand Sadie because she had no friends as a child. All right, she wants someone to love her and can't say "no" to the people who do. It's not a particularly likeable characteristic. I guess I don't like her because she sees herself as a victim of her childhood exclusion and does nothing about it. 

 

Like most of the characters in this book, she is not very likeable. Perhaps the author finds people not very likeable. Perhaps it's the setting. I've heard that New York City is a difficult place to live in. Perhaps that explains it.

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CJINCA
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎11-28-2008
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Re: Sadie


nfam wrote:

Sadie is not my favorite character. She seems extremely weak. Why listen to Caitlin for so long and then avoid telling Lil the unpleasant truth. Maybe she would lose her friend, but if she worried about that why even listen to Caitlin. I found the whole exchange tedious.

 

Perhaps we're supposed to understand Sadie because she had no friends as a child. All right, she wants someone to love her and can't say "no" to the people who do. It's not a particularly likeable characteristic. I guess I don't like her because she sees herself as a victim of her childhood exclusion and does nothing about it. 

 

Like most of the characters in this book, she is not very likeable. Perhaps the author finds people not very likeable. Perhaps it's the setting. I've heard that New York City is a difficult place to live in. Perhaps that explains it.


It is interesting to compare Sadie as she seems to have been at Oberlin with Sadie as she is at the end of the novel -- she seems to have turned back into her pre-college self, someone without real friends,  but worse now though with small children and effectively no support from her husband or her family...no wonder she thinks about running away after the funeral service. 

 

But she really does not do much for herself, to stay close to her old friends or to reach out to the other mothers in her neighborhood.

Correspondent
m3girl
Posts: 194
Registered: ‎03-02-2007
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Re: Sadie

In the beginning I liked Sadie and thought she would be my favorite character.  She seemed to have the best grasp on reality - she knew she would have to work hard for career success and wasn't delusional about her 'talents'.  She seemed to understand relationships better than her 'friends' and to care about them.  I found that she was almost too eager to please others - relating to the first meeting with Caitlin where she discusses her affair with Tuck.  She's too polite.  It was a good contrast though - between Sadie who I should like and Caitlin who I should not like.

She gets pregnant and married Ed - dumps the FBI guy -- all told in narrative summary and so I found that I really didn't care much about this whole situation.

Then she really messes up at work - not being truthful to either her management about the status of Tuck's book or to Tuck about the urgency to finish it.    She seems just too whimpy.

I wanted to see her more in scenes - like with Ed - what does she see in him and why does she marry and stay with him?  Because I dont' really see much of anything very deep in her life - I find that I just don't relate to her and I just don't care.

 

Susan

Inspired Contributor
drbjaded
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎12-02-2008
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Re: Sadie

I didn't like Sadie.  Just talking about  the "Perigrines" made it sound like they were the cream of the crop.  Seems like Sadie had just as difficult a time as everyone else growing up with her family especially her mother, Rose.  It's strange how Caitlin is her nemesis even though in her first encounter with her they are nothing alike and it seems Sadie has nothing to worry about.  Caitlin not able to make her own decisions and living in squalor surrounded by cat pee is just gross.  Although in her own way I think Caitlin does want to do something for humanity.  I'm coming around a little more with Sadie after her initial meeting with the FBI agent and the possibility of not ending up with Tal after all.  I think all these characters are going through life changing events and they will end up quite different from the way they started in the book.
"You cannot love life until you live the life you love."
Moderator
KxBurns
Posts: 1,006
Registered: ‎09-06-2007
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Re: Sadie

[ Edited ]

CJINCA wrote:

It is interesting to compare Sadie as she seems to have been at Oberlin with Sadie as she is at the end of the novel -- she seems to have turned back into her pre-college self, someone without real friends,  but worse now though with small children and effectively no support from her husband or her family...no wonder she thinks about running away after the funeral service. 

 

But she really does not do much for herself, to stay close to her old friends or to reach out to the other mothers in her neighborhood.


Great point. Sadie seems to really struggle with the cult of motherhood to which Caitlin refers. She is part of it but isolated from it at the same time. I think, of all the characters, I would be most interested to read about Sadie's life after the funeral, perhaps in a future work.

Message Edited by KxBurns on 01-29-2009 10:39 PM
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