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Rachel-K
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

 

In what ways does Sam try to change her February 12th in these chapters?  Which changes do you applaud, and which do you think are ill-considered?

 

What are Sam's "good deeds" toward Juliet, and what is Juliet's reaction? What does Sam learn about herself from Juliet?

 

What does Sam learn about herself from Kent? Is her relationship with Kent growing in this brief span of repeating time?

 

Is Sam coming into her own in these chapters? If so, how? If not, what do you hope to see from her in the final chapter?

 

Is it possible for Sam to make the changes she needs to make in a single day?

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vpenning
Posts: 71
Registered: ‎11-03-2009

Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

In Chapter 5, Sam is trying to make the perfect day. Trying to enjoy the things she now knows are most important. And, in 6 see tries to make things right by being nice to everyone, and fixing all the bad things she had done in the day.But, each time, the results do not save Sam's life. So it seems that there is more to saving Sam, than just making little changes. But, I think that each of these changes is carrying Sam one more step along to make the true change that is needed.

 

By  telling her mother that she broke up with Rob, she allows her mother to cross the line in order to console her. Sam now realizes that her mother's love is one of the important things, not a nuisance to be avoided. Here, Sam is beginning to realize that previous relationships are important, and to throw them out carelessly for the sake of teenage appearances is foolish, and self defeating.

 

She tries to make Juliet feel better by sending her a rose, but in doing so, makes Juliet believe it is just another joke. Sam doesn't realize that the torment isn't the rose, but the humiliation of the rose, and the public display that the rose has wrought for years. Having been a student who didn't receive roses during Valentine week, and was looked down upon with disdain from the popular crowd because I did not get one, I know that there were others like me who also did not get one. We banded together at that time, and there was a commonality between our lack of roses that made us one. But, to be singled out by one of the in crowd with a rose every year made Juliet stand out with even that crowd. So, just changing the message on the rose did not change the message in the sending, nor does sending a dozen roses make the message any sweeter.

 

Sam was a kid tormented by others...she knows what it is like. But, she does not fully embrace what that encompassed, and felt like as she lives her life and now in her death. Sam is making the changes, but she has yet to see WHY she should make those changes.

 

She was chosen by Lindsey in the 7th grade, and she chose to turn her back on her pain, and the ones she had as friends, including Kent. But, now when there is true tragedy and pain, it isn't Lindsey who is the one to help her, but her friend of old. her relationship with Kent is growing, but it is because of death and destruction. She still hasn't realized that being a true friend is being one even when that friend has turned their back on you. Kent did it with Sam, and Juliet did it with Lindsey.

 

Sam gave up her friends of old but she also up on  herself. She gave up the things she loved, like dinners with her family, and her horses. In doing so this makes her still a victim-a victim of the bullying.

 

This makes me think of how similar Juliet the one being openly bullied is to Sam, the former bullied. Juliet has given up her arts and crafts, and the things she loves.The scars of being bullied seem to never go away. Is being accepted by Lindsey as a "in crowd" persona, and not for Sam's true self just just another form of being bullied? This makes me think about the first pages and how Sam's thoughts are of Vickie, a girl she remembered bulling way back. Even Vickie remembers the incident, and though Sam thinks Vickie is over it. Is she really?

 

Seeing Juliet's family life, I also wonder if her suicide is totally based on the bullying. Could it just be the catalyst? But, then we see Juliet's sister who has the same family life, yet has friends galore on the swim team.

 

I also wonder, in Chapter 5 when Juliet says "next time" that Juliet herself may be reliving the same day over and over just as Sam is. (the rose phase was next YEAR, not time). In addition, when Juliet tells Sam in Chapter 6 that it "Isn't all about you"; is Juliet telling Sam that this reliving is NOT about Sam's death, but Juliet's.

 

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Zia01
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

In what ways does Sam try to change her February 12th in these chapters?  Which changes do you applaud, and which do you think are ill-considered? She is taking more time for her family. Staying home from school and taking her sister to her special spot, Goose Point. She spends a good evening with her family.

 

What are Sam's "good deeds" toward Juliet, and what is Juliet's reaction? What does Sam learn about herself from Juliet? She sends her tons of flowers for "Cupid's Day" and tried to have an actual conversation with her. Finds out that Lindsey is the one who actually peed the sleeping bag and not Juliet.

 

What does Sam learn about herself from Kent? Is her relationship with Kent growing in this brief span of repeating time? It is. I think she's seeing herself they way she is and not the front she puts up. She's becoming more of the person she wants to be

 

 

Is it possible for Sam to make the changes she needs to make in a single day? I think it's a start and really everyone has to start somewhere.

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Lil_Irish_Lass
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Registered: ‎11-21-2008
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

These chapters are when I FINALLY got drawn in to the book, especially the end of chapter 5 and all of chapter 6.

I think Sam finally gets it, and sees how her (and her friends') actions have seriously hurt others... and how inappropriate and unnecessary they are.

To me, what made the message hit home the hardest for Sam was her first attempt to save Juliet and failing, then realizing that because she had taken herself out of the equation caused the death of Elody. What I'm proud of is that in chapter 6 she didn't just throw her hands up and give up on all of it, rather she buckled down and was determined to stop Juliet from killing herself.

I think it says a lot that even after sincerely trying a second time, Juliet still chose death. I'm not saying that mean girl teasing always leads to their subject committing suicide, but in this instance it's thrown in her face how her being nice is too little, and way too late in the game.

I had to stop myself from reading on to know how BIF ends, but I'm being good and sticking with the reading schedule, but it's finally getting good.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"No sensible man ever engages, unprepared, in a fencing match of words with a woman." - The Woman in White
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Lil_Irish_Lass
Posts: 163
Registered: ‎11-21-2008

Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:


vpenning wrote:

 

 

I also wonder, in Chapter 5 when Juliet says "next time" that Juliet herself may be reliving the same day over and over just as Sam is. (the rose phase was next YEAR, not time). In addition, when Juliet tells Sam in Chapter 6 that it "Isn't all about you"; is Juliet telling Sam that this reliving is NOT about Sam's death, but Juliet's.

 


I don't think Juliet is reliving the same day... she is hopeless in chapter 6, but she is not changing HER Feb 12th at all each time we go through it except for in being forced to react to the changes Sam has caused. She is still going to the party to tell Lindsey, et al that they are bitches and then wandering into the woods to jump in front of whatever large moving vehicle happens to be barreling down the road when she gets to the edge of Route 9 (or using a gun in the version where the girls are not at the party).

I believe Juliet telling Sam that it isn't all about her is Juliet just speaking the blunt truth that to her it looks like Sam has decided for whatever ulterior motive, to appear like she cares. And that by doing so she's feeding her own needs and therefore is STILL being selfish. Which is true, I believe that by chapter 6 Sam does want to save Juliet, but it's human nature to look after yourself first so anything she does to change Feb 12th is to gain a single end result - for Sam to wake up and have it be Feb 13th, and if that means saving Juliet, then she'll try and save Juliet... but she's not being "good" for completely unselfish reasons and I think a girl like Juliet can see straight through the act. Sure she doesn't know Sam died that night too because of her, but good deeds out of the blue generally come from a hidden agenda, and Juliet acknowledges this and isn't afraid to let Sam know her actions are not genuine, nor are they welcome because it is really too little, too late. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"No sensible man ever engages, unprepared, in a fencing match of words with a woman." - The Woman in White
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lg4154
Posts: 72
Registered: ‎02-06-2009

Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

Sam tries to change the 12th by ways of trying to make good on several counts, like when she decides to spend time with her sister to try to avoid all actions at the school. The end result is still the same and does not change the outcome of Sam's fate. I do like the fact that she realizes that she and Juliet are in a ways similar to a degree and Sam becomes more focused on trying to change that outcome. Juliet seems annoyed at Sam for trying to make friends with her in the end, asking her why she hated her. Sam really could not justify why this is so, just kind of went along with her friends in hating Juliet when she had no reason to. Sam finally makes the realization that she is falling for Kent and knows that her friends would freak if they found out she liked him instead. Towards the end, she becomes more focused in seeking him out at the party and being alone with him. I do not think it is possible for Sam to make the changes in a single day, it affects all the other outcomes, each time the choices she makes is better, but will not change the entire outcome.

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TatyyGirl
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

Juliet's reaction to Sam's kindness broke my heart. In a way, though, I could see how it'd be hard for her to believe in Sam's kindness and allow herself to be saved. I found myself wanting to be Sam because the whole situation is one in which I'd want to save Juliet.

 

Her and Kent's relationship, I think, is a big part of her coming into her own. Sam's seen contemplating the things he had said to her on the previous repeats, mainly the original February 12th.  I think her coming to see how she truly feels about Kent is a big reason as to why the book ends the way it does.

 

Also, Sam's "good deeds" involve changing all the roses she sent out and having them all sent to Juliet in the hopes of giving her a reason to hope as well.

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Facepalm
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

In what ways does Sam try to change her February 12th in these chapters?  Which changes do you applaud, and which do you think are ill-considered?

      Really I liked all the changes she made. Here you can see what an effort she is making to improve her life and get closer to the people who really matter in her life. Where things did go wrong, I can't blame her for because they were well intentioned and she really didn't want anyone to get hurt.

 

What are Sam's "good deeds" toward Juliet, and what is Juliet's reaction? What does Sam learn about herself from Juliet?

      Sam tried to send Juliet a bouquet of roses as an apology of sorts. Juliet was offended and thought it was just another joke. I think that if she DID learn anything from that, it was that she is a lot shallower than she knew. She never thought about how much pain she was causing juliet.

 

What does Sam learn about herself from Kent? Is her relationship with Kent growing in this brief span of repeating time?

    Their relationship is definitely growing with time, which is perfect because Kent is awesome!

 

team GALE, anyone?
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KateBrianIsAwesome
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Registered: ‎08-19-2009
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

In what ways does Sam try to change her February 12th in these chapters?  Which changes do you applaud, and which do you think are ill-considered? She has tried to change the rose situation and change Juliet's mind. She has also tried to make the cheaters known. She also is becoming more close to her family.

 

What are Sam's "good deeds" toward Juliet, and what is Juliet's reaction? What does Sam learn about herself from Juliet? That she was kind of a mean B. Also that she does have a great family. Sam tries to save Juliet.

 

What does Sam learn about herself from Kent? Is her relationship with Kent growing in this brief span of repeating time? Not all boys are jerks like her boyfriend is. Kent truly cares for her and likes her for who she is. Yes, she is starting to have feelings for him.

 

Is it possible for Sam to make the changes she needs to make in a single day? Right now it kind of seems impossible. But I'm going to have to say that Sam can suceed.

Reading can only make you more happy and smarter. :smileyhappy:

Visit my blog at http://teenbibliophile.blogspot.com/

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Bethie2
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎01-04-2010

Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

In what ways does Sam try to change her February 12th in these chapters?  Which changes do you applaud, and which do you think are ill-considered?

I like the Sam is nicer to her sister.  She takes the day to spend time with her. 

 

What are Sam's "good deeds" toward Juliet, and what is Juliet's reaction? What does Sam learn about herself from Juliet?

She sends Juliet a bunch of flowers.  She learns that sometimes you can't fix things.

 

What does Sam learn about herself from Kent? Is her relationship with Kent growing in this brief span of repeating time?

She learns that Kent see her as she used to be before she was popular.

 

 

Is Sam coming into her own in these chapters? If so, how? If not, what do you hope to see from her in the final chapter?

Sam is becoming the person she wants to be.  She no longer follows Lindsay or puts too much stock into what she has to say.

 

Is it possible for Sam to make the changes she needs to make in a single day?

I hope she can make the changes she needs to save herself.

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kpatton
Posts: 206
Registered: ‎11-27-2006

Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

 

What great questions.  I am going to only respond to the last question.  It is the question that has been going through my mind from the first Feb. 12 that Sam relived.  I have only read through chapter 6 so still don't know the end.  I wonder if any of us were able to relive a day as significant as this Feb. 12th, if we would be able to not only make the changes we thought we needed to make but would we even recognize all of the changes we needed to make.  No one makes changes in a vacuum.  As Sam tries to make chnges or correct wrongs, there is always a reaction to what she is doing.  Some of these reactions, spin her day in a totally different direction than she would have predicted.  I absolutely love what Lauren has done with this story.  Her writing is wonderful and the story line really causes the reader to think.  Kathy

Rachel-K wrote:

 

 

Is it possible for Sam to make the changes she needs to make in a single day?


 

 

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SpunkiiReader
Posts: 447
Registered: ‎05-08-2009

Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

In what ways does Sam try to change her February 12th in these chapters?  Which changes do you applaud, and which do you think are ill-considered? I really enjoyed Sam's day with Izzy, although nothing of great importance gets accomplished, she is taking the time to spend with her little sister who she has tried to ignore for so long. Of course Izzy wont remember anything of it but Sam now has a different view of her little sister. I don't think changing the roses for Juliet was a great idea, it would have just been better to take the rose out, but at the same time I think I know what she was trying to get at, how would Juliet feel getting no rose? The rose from the year before saying "maybe next year but probably not" would still stick out.

 

What are Sam's "good deeds" toward Juliet, and what is Juliet's reaction?  The roses, Juliet thinks they are just messing with her even more this year by sending her the roses anonymously.

 

Is her relationship with Kent growing in this brief span of repeating time? Yes I think she is beginning to see that Kent was and is the friend she needs. That she shouldn't have walked away from him just for Lindsay.

 

Is Sam coming into her own in these chapters? If so, how? If not, what do you hope to see from her in the final chapter? Yes I think each day she is learning something new that needs to be done, even if its subconsciously. I really hope Sam can find a way to not only save Juliet but to start mending her heart. I also hope that while she stops Juliet's death she can also stop her own. Like once all the pieces fit into place right, Saturday will come.

 

Is it possible for Sam to make the changes she needs to make in a single day? I think it is if she really looks back on the last 6 days and sees what happened and how it changed by her few changes.

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pen21
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

Totally agree with you. Sam is recognizing that her changes can do good but can also harm or make a situation worse. Sam is reaching out in these chapters, what a growth for her.

pen21

 


kpatton wrote:

 

What great questions.  I am going to only respond to the last question.  It is the question that has been going through my mind from the first Feb. 12 that Sam relived.  I have only read through chapter 6 so still don't know the end.  I wonder if any of us were able to relive a day as significant as this Feb. 12th, if we would be able to not only make the changes we thought we needed to make but would we even recognize all of the changes we needed to make.  No one makes changes in a vacuum.  As Sam tries to make chnges or correct wrongs, there is always a reaction to what she is doing.  Some of these reactions, spin her day in a totally different direction than she would have predicted.  I absolutely love what Lauren has done with this story.  Her writing is wonderful and the story line really causes the reader to think.  Kathy

Rachel-K wrote:

 

 

Is it possible for Sam to make the changes she needs to make in a single day?


 

 


 

 

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pen21
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

The difference between Juliet and Sam is very striking in these chapters. We see so much growth in Sam recognizing how she can change, what her actions can cause, what good she is trying to do.

Then we see Juliet, struggling in a very painful way. To me Juliet can't see the good in her life anymore. Sam is not a counselor or psychiatrist. Juliet needs more than Sam can give her. But Sam is trying and that is important.

pen21


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ambika22
Posts: 57
Registered: ‎08-31-2009

Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

In what ways does Sam try to change her February 12th in these chapters?  Which changes do you applaud, and which do you think are ill-considered?

In chapter 5 Sams tries to do everything perfect, she spends a lot more of time with Izzy and she's very nice to her. And i liked a lot the moments she's with Kent. In chapter 6 we can see that she has changed, a lot. She tries to be nice to everyone, sends tons of roses and sees that being mean with others is not a good way to behave. But even she does all that, the result at the end its still the same.

 

What are Sam's "good deeds" toward Juliet, and what is Juliet's reaction? What does Sam learn about herself from Juliet?

She sends her tons of flowers for the Cupid Day. Juliet doesnt really like it because she still thinks she's trying to make fun or her. We also learn a lot more about Juliet and Lindsay relationship.

 

What does Sam learn about herself from Kent? Is her relationship with Kent growing in this brief span of repeating time?

She starts to really notice Kent and their relationship progress a lot. I liked the fact that when they are together we can almost forgot that the day is going to start all over again. Its kind of sad for Sam, because she remembers everything and Kent doesnt. But this way i think she realises how much he means to her.

 

Is it possible for Sam to make the changes she needs to make in a single day?

I think its impossible because when she changes one thing, another one is affected and doesn't happen the same way as before. And even if she tried to change all and be nice to everyone and solve all the problems, the result will be always the same.

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DSaff
Posts: 2,048
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

These chapters showed Sam realizing what was really important, and she tried to take steps to make things meaningful. Her roses to Juliet seemed like a good idea and the time spent with Kent was wonderful. But I really enjoyed the time spent with her family; how she realized her part in the downfall of relationships. Sam really seems to be in touch with who she really is, what is really important, and who is really important in these chapters.

DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
My blog: http://bookworm56.blogspot.com
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DSaff
Posts: 2,048
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

I agree with you. Sam saw the equal and opposite reactions to her actions. We don't live static lives, but rather dynamic ones that affect others. But, I think Sam was trying to do the right thing with most of the changes she made.

 


kpatton wrote:

 

What great questions.  I am going to only respond to the last question.  It is the question that has been going through my mind from the first Feb. 12 that Sam relived.  I have only read through chapter 6 so still don't know the end.  I wonder if any of us were able to relive a day as significant as this Feb. 12th, if we would be able to not only make the changes we thought we needed to make but would we even recognize all of the changes we needed to make.  No one makes changes in a vacuum.  As Sam tries to make chnges or correct wrongs, there is always a reaction to what she is doing.  Some of these reactions, spin her day in a totally different direction than she would have predicted.  I absolutely love what Lauren has done with this story.  Her writing is wonderful and the story line really causes the reader to think.  Kathy

Rachel-K wrote:

 

 

Is it possible for Sam to make the changes she needs to make in a single day?


 

 


 

 

DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
My blog: http://bookworm56.blogspot.com
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stopper19
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

When Sam tries to do "good deeds" to Juliet she sees what kind of a monster she has been all along. Reliving the days over and over were hard enough but when she sees what kind of hurt she has afflicted on Juliet she want to stop Juliet from killing herself even more. Her new goal became save Juliet no matter what. She decided to drop trying to save her own life but trying to save Juliet so she could also have a life to live and Sam could make up to her all of the years that she ruined for her.

 

In chapter 5 and 6 Sam was trying to spend more time with her family and do things that she used to do when she was little. She was trying to fix her life so she could get it back again. She tried to be nice to her family and hang low but she was too focused on herself until she realized that it was not her own life she had to save but Juliets. The only way she could get her life back was to save Juliet.

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rasm
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

By discovering her feelings towards Kent Sam realizes that basing the "hot" guys on whether they are popular or not the right way for her. She learns that trustworthyness and loyalty are more important than popularity.

 

Of course Sam can't go back in time and change everything, she's lucky to have just one day(!), but she  can change enough things in Feb. 12 to make a difference. Its not complete, but it is enough.

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horsefreak13
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Re: Before I Fall, Chapters 5 & 6:

In Sam and Kent's relationship, it grows more than I would have expected it to. I love the parts where they spend time together and when they kissed, I just knew it was right:smileyhappy: Kent was kind of a part of changing Sam's life in the time period they had together. As the end grew near, I think that Sam realized that Kent was the one she's loved all along. On another hand, when it comes to Juliet Sam tries to make everything better in the best ways possible. Trying to change how Juliet acts is the hardest thing Sam has ever done. Then Juliet doesn't want anything to do with Sam and her advice. How will the book end?(FYI:I already finished it:smileyhappy: