thewanderingjew wrote:
Lil_Irish_Lass wrote:
deannafrances wrote:I am a grandmother in my sixties and went to Catholic school and although I lived throught the beginning of hippiedom. Are high schools really like they are protrayed in this book? does anyone ever learn anything?
It all seems so chaotic and anti education.
twj wrote: ditto, i am from the same generation, a former teacher as well, and i am often aghast at the behavior i read about. what happened to discipline in schools and at home? aren't there any rules anymore that are sacrosanct? kids will always push the envelope but lately, kids seem to push all envelopes too far.
As with any depiction of a sect of society it's only accurate from the narrator's perspective. However, I would say that yes, in many public schools there has been a decrease in the focus on education. There are too many forms of technology to distract students (iPods, cell phones, handheld video game systems) and a lack of structure at home (again very gross generalizations).
twj wrote: so, then, would you place the blame for all these distractions on the shoulders of the parents who purchase these "toys" for their kids without limits imposed or the schools for allowing them to be used there?
LIL wrote: I believe that blaming society and the media is a cop out for parents who don't want the full time job of being a parent. All of us survived life without cell phones, iPods, etc... I remember having a calling card in high school and using the *gasp* payphone if I had to reach my parents. As a child I was allowed 1 hour a day to play video games (before you could save the game mind you), which never allowed me enough time to beat a game, but that was the rule and so that's how it went. It seems like a lot of parents allow the video games and TV to babysit their children so they don't have to actually interact with them. Limits are a good thing 99% of the time and while teenagers will curse out good parenting in the moment, they will never regret it down the road. I also believe that schools have to enforce a strict policy that electronic devices stay in the locker, if caught being used in a classroom, they should be taken for the remainder of the day. It's hard enough to pay attention to a subject you don't love, let alone doing so when you could be playing a game or texting your friends. Why set our children up to fail?
Children keep maturing faster as the decades go on and sex, drugs, and rock & roll are very prevalent in today's school systems where more teenagers are becoming sexually active at an alarmingly early age.
twj wrote: has sex education gone too far? does it now encourage sex rather than discourage it? is there too much "negative" social pressure, in the guise of positive behavior, placed on these young teens? i thought the original purpose of this kind of education was to prepare them for their futures, not to encourage them to sleep around but rather to explain the consequences as well. girls have become mattresses today.
of course, my generation was on the opposite side of the spectrum. we were raised a prudes. however, i have no complaints; it served me well. i am married 45 years to the same person and when i married i was a virgin and my honeymoon was magical. i didn't seem to need to have this broader experience that everyone seems to want to have. maybe i am missing something that i don't know about or understand, who knows?i think that perhaps the pendulum needs to swing back a bit toward the middle instead of this policy today of "anything goes"! moderation is always a better approach.
LIL wrote: I think it's a compilation of many things... kids just grow up faster these days than during the 80s. 13 year old girls are being brainwashed into thinking they can behave like someone in their mid-20s because that's what the media says is the "norm". Look at the TV shows for young adults... many characters are played by actors in their 20s. I think it's a lack of parenting again and a defeated attitude that "everyone is doing it" so there's no sense in trying to talk to your child about how you should wait until you are REALLY ready to have sex or how drugs could ruin your life. I grew up listening to Debbie Gibson - her scandal was she showed her knee through a hole in her jeans on an album cover... today? Britney Spears is singing about threesomes and pre-pubescent girls are singing along trying to mimic the dance moves. Western society is setting our younger generations up to fail. Couple that with parents who have to hold down multiple jobs to just put food on the table making them too exhausted to be active parents and you have a whole new generation of kids growing up without supervision looking towards the media for what they should be doing and the media says: sex! drugs! alcohol! Which makes me have an issue with BIF at least up through the first two chapters, the author has made it seem like it's OK for these kids to be smoking, drinking and driving, and having sex. Nice message to have in a YA novel. Even if there is a great moral to the story, a lot of kids don't take the time to look past the obvious and so they're seeing green lights that they should be doing these t hings.
I graduated college in '99 and went to two very different high schools...the first being in a town in CT much like the on in BIF filled with wealthy, over privileged children who felt that they were untouchable. Though, because of the area, there was a high academic focus since my high school was nationally ranked for it's size. There was a lot of pressure from family, faculty, and the student body to do something to make yourself stand out (star athlete, brainiac, lead in the school play, etc). There were those who would sneak out in study hall to do drugs in the back parking lot, but for the most part there was a focus on organized learning.
twj wrote: when i went to school, drugs were a non event! they just didn't exist the way they do today. the worst offense was getting caught smoking on school property. maybe in our desire to better our schools, we fixed a lot of stuff that wasn't broken, simply by throwing money at it. we removed a lot of courses that would have taught good citizenship to pay for courses like sex education instead. maybe civics courses are the way to go!
I then moved up to small town NH where in 1996 the high school was still functioning under the open classroom teaching styles from the 70's. The academic pressure there was to do what you had to do graduate (and faculty bent the rules to get people to pass as much as they could). A small portion of the student body was focused on their education, the rest were allowed to slack off and ignore it.twj: that is a disgraceful educational policy. why didn't the parents revolt? in this case, it sounds like they had good cause.
LIL wrote: The parents never revolted because many of them never graduated high school, let alone went to college. They didn't know any better. The teachers and the education was there if you worked for it, and those that cared did and so therefore their parents didn't complain. I remember being told by my teacher I should drop her class and take philosophy where I would actually learn something, and that she was sad to see me go since I would have been the ONLY student in class who did their homework and participated and she would rather suffer through with the delinquents alone so that I could be in an English class where I would be challenged by those around me. It has made me realize that a large portion of education needs to be done OUTSIDE of school by parents and I will definitely make sure to supplement my children's educations to fill in any gaps the school system might leave behind.
It all depends on the overall level of education in the community I think, if most of the adult generation didn't go to college (or graduate from high school) the present students will experience less of an educational focus than if the community is populated with adults who have at least an undergraduate degree.twj: i think you are right but educators are supposed to create sound education for the students regardless of background. otherwise, where is the hope for each succeeding generation? it sounds like our system is failing the students, the parents and the teachers who dedicate themselves to their classes.
LIL wrote: I agree, but teachers can only do so much... especially at younger ages, if the love for education and learning is not being instilled at home the teacher's don't have a fighting chance in the classroom. It takes a village to raise a child, but that village can be sabotaged at home.
-Sam does seem like the typical Popular high school girl, acting like she's the best. All we know about the family for now is that she has her little sister, Izzy, and her mother. Something surprising that we learn is that she was picked on when she was younger.
- Sam just wants to somewhat blend in and fit in her "clique".
- Not yet. 
- Not at all! Sam even points out that when they went to Smokers Lounge, Lindsay was hurrying and cursing with no need, because Ms. Winters was coming near. When really, she could have gotten away with it regardless, she just wanted to be dramatic about it.
-the fact that I finished the book and don't exactly know what I can safely say about them, prevents me from answering this question.
-I think she should have told Kent.
