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Rachel-K
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Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

The Do Over Day

 

What are Sam's new stunts to change the outcome of her day, and what effect do her actions have? Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior?

 

Are any of the other characters changing as Sam changes in these chapters? Do Ally, Elody, Lindsay or any of the school kids Sam has always ignored seem seem more genuine or different in response to Sam's new (sometimes bizarre) behavior?

 

Is Sam learning anything at all as we go through each of these February 12ths, or is she just floundering in new and more awful directions with every attempt to do something different? Is Sam's basic nature changing?  Are there ways that she is either building character (an old fashioned phrase!) or revealing her true self? Which, if any of these, seems true for you in these chapters?

 

How do you like the other kids Sam hangs out with in these chapters?

 

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Zia01
Posts: 187
Registered: ‎08-08-2009

Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

What are Sam's new stunts to change the outcome of her day, and what effect do her actions have? Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior? Sam goes totally out of character and got angry. She was making out with the perv teacher, smoking pot, stealing her mom's amex card, flashing strangers. Her personality did a total 360 in these chapters.

 

Are any of the other characters changing as Sam changes in these chapters? Do Ally, Elody, Lindsay or any of the school kids Sam has always ignored seem seem more genuine or different in response to Sam's new (sometimes bizarre) behavior? I think most of the people and her friends just aren't sure what's up with Sam at this point. People who didn't think Sam knew they existed are surprised and those who thought they knew her best have no clue what's going on.

 

Is Sam learning anything at all as we go through each of these February 12ths, or is she just floundering in new and more awful directions with every attempt to do something different? Is Sam's basic nature changing?  Are there ways that she is either building character (an old fashioned phrase!) or revealing her true self? Which, if any of these, seems true for you in these chapters? Even though Sam has done a total 360, she seems to be finding herself. She's getting some nerve and standing up for helself and standing her ground, even if it's done in extremes.

 

 

 

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momofprecious1
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

I didn't like Sam at the begining of the book & her new stunts cause me to like her even less. I wouldn't want to be in Sam's position in real life (knowing that I'm going to die & how) but if I were I don't think I would chose to act the way Sam did. Then again, it's easy for me to say it because I'm not in her shoes. She is angry & frustrated but at the same time she starts to think about how people change. I do like that she starts to realize that she is not a nice person when she tells Lauren that she shouldn't be so nice to her. The stunt that bothered me the most was she was when Sam & Mr. Daimler started to have a touchy feeling relationship. I was actually grossed out by the thought of a teenager & their teacher doing this in real life. She decided to avoid her friends and  spends time with Kate in the bathroom smoking pot. I did like that she was being nice to Kate & got to know her. Next she moves on to stealing her mom's credit card, going shopping & taking Tara & her friends out to a very pricey dinner. Although she is avoiding her friends she starts thinking about how Ally has an endless limit on her credit card & Lindsay's stepdad tries to buy her love by buying her anything she wants. Sam decides that she's feeling good & actually glad that she had a fight with Lindsay that she flashes the boys in the car next to Tara's. Sam & Rob would have had sex in Kent's house if Rob wouldn't have fallen asleep.

 

 

How do you like the other kids Sam hangs out with in these chapters? The kids that Sam decides to hang out with aren't necessarily the "good" kids either compared to her friends. It's seems like Sam's main group of friends are the most popular, followed by Tara & her friends & the least popular is Kate.

 

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milkamilka
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

What are Sam's new stunts to change the outcome of her day, and what effect do her actions have? Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior?

I was a bit shocked about the attitude, but if I would be in her situation I think I could understand them.

 

Is Sam learning anything at all as we go through each of these February 12ths, or is she just floundering in new and more awful directions with every attempt to do something different? Is Sam's basic nature changing? Are there ways that she is either building character (an old fashioned phrase!) or revealing her true self? Which, if any of these, seems true for you in these chapters?

I think that she is starting to find herself. She is ready to get up for her own good!

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thewanderingjew
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Registered: ‎12-18-2007

Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

[ Edited ]

Rachel-K wrote:

The Do Over Day

...edited by twj... Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior?

 

I was very surprised by the turn of events concerning Sam's personality. For some reason I thought she would become softer, kinder, more aware of what her world was like and how hurtful her behavior had been. Instead she becomes angrier and more frivolous, disobeying rules, pushing the envelope on morality even further, committing minor crimes without worrying about repercussions since she realizes there won't be any.

...edited by twj... Is Sam's basic nature changing?  Are there ways that she is either building character (an old fashioned phrase!) or revealing her true self? Which, if any of these, seems true for you in these chapters?

I do see signs of a slight positive change in her, however, with little comments like:

p.244---When she remarks to Kent, "I don't think I can be fixed"...instead of what she thinks she meant to say, "I don't think it can be fixed", which was what she says she meant to say. I think perhaps she was beginning to understand that something was wrong with her behavior.

Is that the true thought or was it a foreshadowing of the possibiity of a second chance at life?

edited by twj...Is Sam learning anything at all as we go through each of these February 12ths, or is she just floundering in new and more awful directions with every attempt to do something different?

p.252--Sam refers to Lindsay's experience with her boyfriend Patrick and all of the girls pretend it was the first time for her, even though it isn't. She says..."That's the thing about best friends...That's what they do. They keep you from spinning off the edge."

Did anyone else think these girls were creating an alternate reality in real life in much the same way, Sam was living alternate realities as she relived 2/12? Did this mean she would have the opportunity to rewrite her own destiny? I am hoping for this outcome!

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jb70
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

I wondered why Sam continued to cheat on the exam, she knew it was coming and knew the answers now.  If she got there earlier and didn't sit by Lauren the whole cheating/offic eissue would neve rhave come up.  In chapter 3 she doesn't die but Juilette does.  Did Juliette die in all of the endings and we just didn't find out becaue Sam had already died.  If she didn't die why does she still have to relive the day, what does she need to fix still.  Does someone have to die or is there a way to fix it all?

 

I wondered about her out of control behavior, how could she skip all her classes and not get caught?  Our high school had security guard type people who were always in the halls  and that was years ago, how could she avoid them all day?  When she is with Tara and the pugs she almost seemed like the Lindsay of the Pugs, a new queen bee in a different group.  Would she even miss her old group if she got to continue her life from this point- are they interchangeable?

 

Does money always seem to separate us, are the popular kids that way because of having money adn have having one worry removed from their daily life?  Does money buy a portion of the coolness and then personallity and self confidence the rest. 

 

On page 244 she talks about not being a whole person.  Then Kent has the party for her- does that mean he can save her (or fix her as she says).

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dbug_13
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

What are Sam's new stunts to change the outcome of her day, and what effect do her actions have? Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior?

When Sam finds herself waking up once again to February 12th, she decides to go all out and forget her inhibitions and do whatever she wants. I think this is reflective of the actions most teen girls briefly ponder taking if there would be no consequences, though maybe not to the extreme that Sam takes it, such as flashing strangers on a whim and smoking pot in the bathroom. Also, most girls never act on these reckless thoughts because their morals and responsibilities prevent them from taking those extreme measures. However, I think Sam feels utterly lost and desperate;therefore she elects to ignore her usual boundaries and do whatever she wants. Her outrageous stunts, I believe, are indicative of the struggle she is facing with coming to terms with her shocking reality of reliving the same day over and over again. She feels as though nothing matters and she has nothing to lose, so nothing is off limits today. She will act on all of those fleeting and rash desires she may have briefly fantasized about realizing in another life.

 I was at first shocked by Sam's recklessness and flagrant disregard for the resulting consequences of her actions, since Sam had always been more reserved, but I think that this behavior is something that will pass. She just had to express her frustration in some way, and I think this is how she is dealing with her stress and sorrow. However, I think that once she has gotten all of her pent up frustration out of her system, she will return to her "normal" behavior.

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Sadie1
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

 

I am not shocked by Sam's "nothing matters" attitude because the author does so well in explaining it at every turn.  For example when she talks about how Lindsay and Ally must feel when they shop.
I don't think the behavior is more questionable.  I think it's just as bad though.
I think that K. C. seems more genuine in response to Sam's new behavior.  I also think that Sam is starting to see how genuine the pain is to Juliet from the bad behavior that Sam and her friends have given her over the years and Sam is starting to see clearly how her and her friends behavior have pushed Juliet to what do what Juliet does.
Sam is learning along the way from her past behavior and her new behaviors.  She is seeing that neither are good.  Sam's basic nature is changing.  Our true nature and character are our true selves.  We are who we are and this is Sam, even though she is evolving from day to day.
I don't like the other kids Sam is hanging out with in these chapters.  They have bad behaviors too, just different ones.  They are all behaving badly to fit in here and there in their own ways.
I found myself wishing that Sam would hang out with Juliet on the 2nd day through the 4th day.  Maybe we will get there.
Lisa in Georgia

 

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SpunkiiReader
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

The Do Over Day

 

What are Sam's new stunts to change the outcome of her day, and what effect do her actions have? Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior?

well day 3 Sam tries to completely avoid the party and therefore the car, altogether... but as she clearly finds out it doesn't work she wakes up again on 2/12. In a way I'm not shocked by her nothing matters attitude, she's starting to think that no matter what she is going to relive this day over and over so what's it matter when there will be no tomorrow and no consequence. Now Im not condoning what she does and Im not saying that I like it but its understandable that shes lashing out.

 

Are any of the other characters changing as Sam changes in these chapters? Do Ally, Elody, Lindsay or any of the school kids Sam has always ignored seem seem more genuine or different in response to Sam's new (sometimes bizarre) behavior?

Well I am surprised that Lindsey let her talk them into not going to the party on day 3. on day 4 and the fight with Lindsey, I think Lindsey reacted the same way anyone would when there friend started talking to them like that, even if it was all true anyone would be upset. We dont really get to see much of Katie before except than Lindsey doesnt like her and calls her white trash. but she is shocked when Sam joins her in the bathroom and they actually get along.

 

Is Sam learning anything at all as we go through each of these February 12ths, or is she just floundering in new and more awful directions with every attempt to do something different? Is Sam's basic nature changing?  Are there ways that she is either building character (an old fashioned phrase!) or revealing her true self? Which, if any of these, seems true for you in these chapters?

In a way shes still in shock that all this is happening and making even more wrong choices. Shes kinda moving away from who she really is not moving twords the real Sam.

 

How do you like the other kids Sam hangs out with in these chapters?

I like that she gets to know Katie (that was who I was in high school) but as for the "next level popular girls"  now shes the ring leader. and they're not much diffrent from her group just that they're not at the top of the pyrimind. and then there is Kent at the end of day 4, I have liked Kent since the beginning so I like that she is slowly getting closer to him.

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pen21
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

I understand what you are saying here. What did she have to lose if she had to keep reliving this day again and again. I am waiting to see Sam in the next couple chapters to see if she is learning something from each of the repeat days.

pen21

 


dbug_13 wrote:

What are Sam's new stunts to change the outcome of her day, and what effect do her actions have? Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior?

When Sam finds herself waking up once again to February 12th, she decides to go all out and forget her inhibitions and do whatever she wants. I think this is reflective of the actions most teen girls briefly ponder taking if there would be no consequences, though maybe not to the extreme that Sam takes it, such as flashing strangers on a whim and smoking pot in the bathroom. Also, most girls never act on these reckless thoughts because their morals and responsibilities prevent them from taking those extreme measures. However, I think Sam feels utterly lost and desperate;therefore she elects to ignore her usual boundaries and do whatever she wants. Her outrageous stunts, I believe, are indicative of the struggle she is facing with coming to terms with her shocking reality of reliving the same day over and over again. She feels as though nothing matters and she has nothing to lose, so nothing is off limits today. She will act on all of those fleeting and rash desires she may have briefly fantasized about realizing in another life.

 I was at first shocked by Sam's recklessness and flagrant disregard for the resulting consequences of her actions, since Sam had always been more reserved, but I think that this behavior is something that will pass. She just had to express her frustration in some way, and I think this is how she is dealing with her stress and sorrow. However, I think that once she has gotten all of her pent up frustration out of her system, she will return to her "normal" behavior.


 

 

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DSaff
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

Sam realizes a lot in these chapters. One thing is that preventing her death seems to have lead to another, Juliet's, and that totally floored her. Now, I wonder if she will figure out something that will keep both of them alive. Sam also starts to feel the consequences of her decisions on popularity, etc.

 

pg. 135 "I don't think I've ever felt so alone in my life."  ("sick day" after her mother leaves her doorway and Pickles stops scratching to come in)

 

pg. 153 "I love my life. I want my life."  (Sam's realization about how much she really does care about things while talking with Lindsay)

 

pg. 184 "I didn't do anything. I just followed along."  (powerful understanding of her association Lindsay)

 

pg. 187 This page deals with Sam and her "I should have's"

 

Sam does begin to see the dysfunctional relationships she has, but still hasn't figured out how to stop repeating her behaviors. Chapter four is disturbing because she doesn't care what she does or who she hurts. They won't remember. Is she really so sure? Is it really true?

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BaseballMomma
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

What are Sam's new stunts to change the outcome of her day, and what effect do her actions have? Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior?

I was not shocked by Sam's "nothing matters" attitude. I think if any person were in the same situation they would end up doing the same at some point. The frustration at repeating the day she dies over and over and not really knowing why she's repeating it, finally gets to her. I don't think her new behavior is more questionable than her "normal" behavior. She's only going a step further in being extreme than she was before.

 

Are any of the other characters changing as Sam changes in these chapters? Do Ally, Elody, Lindsay or any of the school kids Sam has always ignored seem seem more genuine or different in response to Sam's new (sometimes bizarre) behavior?

I don't know that the characters are changing so much as my opinion of them changes as I find out more about who they are and why they act the way they do, especially with Ally, Elody and Lindsay. I completely disliked them at the beginning, but as I find out their backgrounds and stories I feel differently about them. I think it's almost the same for Sam because she pushes the limits with the girls and she discovers things about them she either didn't know or see before.

 

 

 

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bookrooted
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

What are Sam's new stunts to change the outcome of her day, and what effect do her actions have? Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior?

-Sam's new actions include making out with her disgusting teacher, smoking pot, going out with some girls and while trying to impress them, or more show she is superior, takes her mom's credit car and then flashes some boys. I was expecting this new attitude, the rebellion sort of brake out or tantrum. I don't think it's do different from her normal behavior, and probably some teenagers might act out like this purposely. 

 

Are any of the other characters changing as Sam changes in these chapters? Do Ally, Elody, Lindsay or any of the school kids Sam has always ignored seem seem more genuine or different in response to Sam's new (sometimes bizarre) behavior?

- I didn't see many changes in the other characters. The reactions of the people she ignored seemed maybe a bit more surprised by her newer boldness, or possibly expected it to happen anyways. Her friends though seemed to think something was up and weren't sure to how to respond. Especially Lindsay and Elody by her accusations.

 

Is Sam learning anything at all as we go through each of these February 12ths, or is she just floundering in new and more awful directions with every attempt to do something different? Is Sam's basic nature changing?  Are there ways that she is either building character (an old fashioned phrase!) or revealing her true self? Which, if any of these, seems true for you in these chapters?

- I agree, i think Sam is slowly starting to learn how to stick of for herself, and possibly express herself a bit more, though the extreme stunts she pulled might not have been the answer. I also thought that she was doing those crazy things to see if anyone cared.

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cynthial11
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

The Do Over Day

 

What are Sam's new stunts to change the outcome of her day, and what effect do her actions have? Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior? I am not shocked at all by her attitude. I think I would've acted the same, thinking that I had to live the same day over and over I would've tried doing anything I wanted without thinking of the consequences because tomorrow I would wake up and start all over again.

 

Are any of the other characters changing as Sam changes in these chapters? Do Ally, Elody, Lindsay or any of the school kids Sam has always ignored seem seem more genuine or different in response to Sam's new (sometimes bizarre) behavior? yes, I think they do change. Since she is acting differently towards others. She's not going along with everything that her friends want her to do. Her friends seem different and show that they are not as shallow or heartless as they seem to be.

 

Is Sam learning anything at all as we go through each of these February 12ths, or is she just floundering in new and more awful directions with every attempt to do something different? Is Sam's basic nature changing?  Are there ways that she is either building character (an old fashioned phrase!) or revealing her true self? Which, if any of these, seems true for you in these chapters? I think that she is learning a lot, she's still very confused just like anybody else would be as to what the purpose of the whole thing is but I think that she is trying. I think that she is building a character, I don't completely think she's revealing her true self  yet because of the reckless. I think she's learning new things about other people that will help her make better choices.

 

How do you like the other kids Sam hangs out with in these chapters?

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aprilh
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

[ Edited ]

In Chapter 3, it seems Sam's idea of changing the outcome of February 12, is to make sure she misses Kent's party anyway she possibly can. She realizes that by not being at the party and not getting into a car with her friends, she would not wind up dying at the end of the night. She tells her mom she's sick, which makes her miss part of the school day, then convinces Lindsay and the girls to skip the party. I was surprised at the end of this chapter that Sam did not die in another way at the end of the night, but instead that Juliet takes her own life. Has Juliet always killed herself at the end of the night and we just didn't know it until now because we only see the story from Sam's view?

 

In Chapter 4, Sam's frustration at having to relive the same day over and over finally gets to her. She decides to do whatever she wants, live her life with no consequences. In my opinion, I saw two things that stood out in my mind as Sam trying to make the day better. The first was she tried getting to know Katie Carjullo better, even though smoking pot in the bathroom with her wasn't a wise choice. The second was she made an effort to steer clear of the situation with Juliet at the end of the night, but almost ended up having sex with Rob in the process. Also, she did nothing to stop the others from making fun of Juliet, which now that she knows what Juliet does after the party should have made her want to do anything she could to stop it. The rest of the day for me, felt like Sam was doing the opposite of trying to change her life for the better. She fights with her friends, makes out with her teacher, smokes pot in the bathroom, almost gets caught with cigarettes and blackmails Ms. Winters with the information about her and the gym teacher hooking up and steals her mom's credit card. I'm hoping from this point forward Sam starts working really hard to change her ways.

 

April
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tennisgirl3194
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

Sam's attitude made me dislike her even more. Her whole affair with her teacher made me wince, but at least she had the sense to get out of that situation while she still had the chance.

 

Sam wants desperately to change the day so much that it won't be possible for her to die. She isn't sure what she has to do in order to accomplish this.

 

The girls Sam starts to hang out with seem starstruck when Sam is forced to hang out with them. They're a bit nicer than Ally, Elody, and Lindsay, but they don't think for themselves and will go along with whatever Sam wants to do, no matter what it is. They are really fake and don't care that Sam wouldn't be with them if her three best friends were available.

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veronica1890
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

I seem to feel sympathy for everyone else but Sam. I feel as though shes trying to change but everything goes wrong anyways. I dislike the part where she just gives up and tries to be bad. It doesn't seem believable. 

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Bonnie_C
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

I think that Sam is responding to her situation the same way that a person who is is told they have a terminal disease responds.  She has gone through confusion and denial and now she is very angry.  Why is this happening to her and not her friends?  She may feel that Lindsay has done far worse things than she has.  Why not her?

 

I'm not sure the other characters are changing.  They are not reliving this day themselves.  The day before for them was February 11th.  Sam is the one changing each time the day repeats itself.

 

I think this story brilliantly shows how intricate the interactions of people are.  By changing one thing, you get to see a different side of the story.  . 

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jabrkeKB
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4


Rachel-K wrote:

The Do Over Day

 

What are Sam's new stunts to change the outcome of her day, and what effect do her actions have? Are you shocked by her "nothing matters" attitude? Do you think this new risk-it-all behavior is more questionable than Sam's "normal" behavior? I am not shocked by her change because I think she is gambling on the idea that she will get to do over the day again. I feel like she wants to see how it feels to act totally different than her norm.

 

Are any of the other characters changing as Sam changes in these chapters? Do Ally, Elody, Lindsay or any of the school kids Sam has always ignored seem seem more genuine or different in response to Sam's new (sometimes bizarre) behavior? She gets in a fight with her friends and they can't understand what is going on with her change. She spend time in the bathroom with Katie, someone she normally would have ignored. Sam is nicer to Kent.

 

Is Sam learning anything at all as we go through each of these February 12ths, or is she just floundering in new and more awful directions with every attempt to do something different? Is Sam's basic nature changing?  Are there ways that she is either building character (an old fashioned phrase!) or revealing her true self? Which, if any of these, seems true for you in these chapters?

 I think she is starting to see how shallow her friends can be sometimes, but I still see her as floundering. I think she is building character in the fact that she is trying to find her true self.


 

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Lildove3
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Re: Before I Fall, Middle Chapters, 3-4

There's really no differenece before or after this atttitiude, Sam is being her usual self.

 

No, it seems are just they way the are most of the time, I do not think any will change no matter

what the circumstances or events going on.

 

Yes, Sam desperately wants to change February 12th that she is retracing and being cautious. If it's

within her power to change the events for that particular day, then she does so. Yes, Sam's demure is definately changing for the better.  Sam is seeing the errors she has made throughout her life and feeling real bad of all her errors.

 

I am not too impressed with the females, but Kent appears to be the right kind of example Sam should be taking lessons from.