Lindsay and Juliet

[Rachel-K]

We learn a great deal about Lindsay in these chapters. Do your feelings for her change? How would you describe her now?

Are you surprised to learn she'd been best friends with Juliet as a young kid?

In this chapter, just when Sam thinks she's escaped her awful fate, we learn of Juliet's suicide. How does this tie into Sam's death? We can guess how much Juliet's probably been tormented by being so rejected, and we know about her young friendship with Lindsay. Is she any less mysterious of a character now?

[Zia01]

We learn a great deal about Lindsay in these chapters. Do your feelings for her change? How would you describe her now? They do a little bit. I'm still not sure what her deal it, but I think she definitely has some issues to deal with.

Are you surprised to learn she'd been best friends with Juliet as a young kid? Nope nto at all. It just makes me wonder what Juliet ever did to her.

In this chapter, just when Sam thinks she's escaped her awful fate, we learn of Juliet's suicide. How does this tie into Sam's death? We can guess how much Juliet's probably been tormented by being so rejected, and we know about her young friendship with Lindsay. Is she any less mysterious of a character now? At this point I'm not sure how it's tied into it, but I assume it is somehow. Well we know she had a friendship with Linday but we don't know how that ties into the story or her suicide.

[rasm]

I was not surprised when Lauren Oliver intruduced the fact that Lindsay and Juliet had been friends. As soon as they heard the suicide news, Lindsay was the only one that didn't care. A hate like that goes very deep and is usually caused by a betrayal or fear, therefore I knew there must be secret past for Lindsay that somehow involved Juliet.

[pen21]

I think only a close friend can hurt you and cause the extremely painful relationship that Lindsay and Juliet have. If they had been casual friends, I think there might have been anger or hurt between them, but not to the extent that Lindsay has taken it.

pen21

[mysticveil]

We learn a great deal about Lindsay in these chapters. Do your feelings for her change? How would you describe her now?

My feelings changed for Lindsay after reading these chapters. I like her even less but I also pity her. Something has to have happened in her past to make her so closed off and shallow. She definitely has a big wall up to protect herself from feeling anything about anyone.

Are you surprised to learn she'd been best friends with Juliet as a young kid?

 It does not surprise me that she had been friends with Juliet. I really am wondering what happened and why she is treating her the way that she is. I am suspecting some kind of hurt or jealousy.

In this chapter, just when Sam thinks she's escaped her awful fate, we learn of Juliet's suicide. How does this tie into Sam's death?

 I think that Sam starts to really see some insite into how her friend Lindsay really treats people and that she is treating people the same way. I think that Sam at this point thinks that Lindsay is a really terrible person but doesn't quite see yet that she has control over how she herself treats people and that she doesn't have to follow along. I think when we see that Juliet commits suicide and Sam is around to see the unemotional response by her friend Lindsay, that she starts to get a clear glimpse of the real situation especially. This is especially clear when she goes searching for the yearbooks. I think that Sam is disturbed by Lindsays lack of empathy. We can guess how much Juliet's probably been tormented by being so rejected and  we know about her young friendship with Lindsay.

Is she any less mysterious of a character now?

When we see the suicide, we see a really painful picture of all of the past torment that the girls and especially Lindsay inflicted upon Juliet and how much pain they caused her. They really have no consideration of their actions upon other people and to what extent they can damage a persons life. I think that once we are given a glimpse into Juliet’s world, we understand why she is so strange and mysterious. She has been humiliated, teased, and bullied continuously for years by the ‘popular’ girls thus making her feel rejected by her community. She has been made to feel unimportant and worthless. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated case in our society and happens at every high school throughout America. All we need to do is check the headlines. School shootings, suicide, etc are often the end result when children, teenagers, and often adults feel victimized. Sometimes when people leave high school, the continue the same bullying behaviors as adults.

[krb2g]

The hidden/forgotten friendship between Lindsay and Juliet mirrors the earlier friendship between Sam and Kurt, except somehow we know that there's something worse between Lindsay and Juliet--Sam doesn't actively antagonize Kurt the same way Lindsay goes out of her way (and encourages her friends to go out of their way) to make Juliet feel awful.

Juliet's suicide was a crucial moment for me: we discover that Sam's not repeating her day just to avoid the accident. While the accident was relatively easy for Sam to avoid (all she had to do was to talk her friends into staying in that night), it's clear that if there's a reason behind the repetition it's not either to make her die in a car crash every 24 hours or to let her escape the car crash and go on with her life.

[Sadie1]

We do learn a lot more about Lindsay and Juliet in these chapters.  My feelings for Lindsay do not change. 

I picked up in chapter 1 when it was mentioned about the "bed wetting" that there was history between Lindsay and Juliet.  I wonder if the story is true or made up by a mean girl named Lindsay.  I am wondering just what happened between Lindsay and Juliet to make Lindsay hate her so much.  Did Juliet refuse to do something that Lindsay wanted her to do or what?  Did Lindsay do something and get scared that Juliet would turn against her so Lindsay turned against Juliet instead and started a vicious rumor that has remained with Juliet?  Or did Juliet actually wet the bed and Lindsay is just mean period from a young age?

I think that Sam's death and Juliet's are tied together by actions that Lindsay set in motion.  Juliet ended up commiting suicide from the torture that Lindsay started on her so many years ago that continues until her death. 

Sam ends up in a wreck that Lindsay has because of bad choices Sam has made from being with Lindsay in the first place.  I wonder if the flash of light is a car playing chicken with Lindsay and Lindsay is the one that swerved this time.  I wonder how many people Lindsay has made wreck from those shenanigans she so enjoys doing to others.

I can't wait to finish this book..I have to see if I am right about the car wreck???  I have only read through chapter 4.  It's all I can do to not read on to stay on schedule.

Lisa in Georgia

[lau05]

I can say I was very surprised when I discovered Lindsay and Juliet was best friends. Then, I thought what could there have happened for both of them were in this situation. Probably, something terrible. But not. The most simple and foolish thing. The time. All of us change with the time. Some to better, another to worst. But also it seems to me incredible Juliet doesn't say anything about the scouts camp and she prefers be rejected. Juliet simply has accepted the things that came to her path, without trying change nothing. Unlike to her, Lindsay believes herself the better of the high school and doesn't any occasion to demonstrate to the rest of people. Both are very credible characters. Always there are a Juliet and a Lindsay in every school or high school. The law of the big fish eats to the small one!!

For me, it's incredible that Sam doesn't tell anything to her friends about the accident. Probably, because they will think she is crazy or because the things may go worse.

[SpunkiiReader]

I agree with Krb2g, we now find out that its not just about Sam's last day and how she dies. It also made me think that this is why Juliet finially stood up to Lindsey, like it was the only thing left on her todo list before she killed herself. although we dont know if she kills herself in the first 2 chapters but I belive that she does after standing up to the "popular" girls and then being humiliated yet again I think she goes home and commets sucied.

you have to think there is some kind of past for Lindsey and Juliet, you dont treat someone the way Lindsey does Juliet for no reason. so to find out they were friends for years was not a shocker, we just have to find out what happend between them that ended their friendship. Although just because you had a fight or something doesnt mean you need to torment the other person, my feeling for Lindsey do change, I hate her even more.

[DSaff]

Yes, we have learned a lot about Lindsay in these two chapters. I feel more sorry for her now than before. Her actions have always seemed pretentious and over the top, but I thought they were a defense mechanism. Now, I understand some of it. I think the sexual episode at her brother's college may have been more like a rape, certainly not what she wanted for her first time, and that it has made her become more overt in her opinions and actions. Her feelings of loss and inferiority (the first time wasn't romantic, etc.) lead her to do things to make herself feel better about herself. I think there is sooooo much more to Lindsay than we have seen so far (I have only read through chapter 4) and I can't wait to find out what happened between her and Juliet. The feelings have gone from what appeared to be best friends to horrible enemies, at least in Lindsay's eyes. I wonder if betrayal is involved. I also get the feeling that Lindsay has no real relationship with her parents and that makes me sad.

Juliet's suicide made me very sad. Sam gets to see first-hand what happens when we try to change time. I think it shocked her. Juliet is lost and lonely, and something has pushed her over the edge. Life holds no meaning for her and I can't help but wonder if Sam holds the key to mending the relationship between Lindsay and Juliet. I hope that is answered in the next chapters. 

[DSaff]

But, don't you think that her immediate "I don't care" attitude could be a defense mechanism. She really couldn't let the others know that they had been friends in the past. I think Lindsay still cares but the wall is so high, she can't break it down.

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rasm wrote:

I was not surprised when Lauren Oliver intruduced the fact that Lindsay and Juliet had been friends. As soon as they heard the suicide news, Lindsay was the only one that didn't care. A hate like that goes very deep and is usually caused by a betrayal or fear, therefore I knew there must be secret past for Lindsay that somehow involved Juliet.

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[cynthial11]

We learn a great deal about Lindsay in these chapters. Do your feelings for her change? I felt a little bit sorry for her but not too much. I still think that she was very cruel and selfish.

Are you surprised to learn she'd been best friends with Juliet as a young kid? I kind of had an idea from the beginning about her having some sort of connection with her but I wasn't surprised to find out they had been friends.

[bookrooted]

We learn a great deal about Lindsay in these chapters. Do your feelings for her change? How would you describe her now?

- My feeling for Lindsay shifted from total dislike, to a little bit of pity for her behavior and overall actions. Lindsay, I know now, seems to have went through lot, and i think she is very stressful, exhausted, and probably deep down disappointed in herself i hope.

Are you surprised to learn she'd been best friends with Juliet as a young kid?

- Not really surprised, but more enlightened. It hints that during that time, something must have started in Lindsay and made her be so horrible and mean towards Juliet.

In this chapter, just when Sam thinks she's escaped her awful fate, we learn of Juliet's suicide. How does this tie into Sam's death? We can guess how much Juliet's probably been tormented by being so rejected, and we know about her young friendship with Lindsay. Is she any less mysterious of a character now?

- Juliet's suicide ties into Sam's death by i think having a bigger impact and influence on Sam. It's sad how Juliet's life had to have ended like that, nobody deserves that. Being tormented for all those years by Lindsay obviously all added up. I don't think she is any more mysterious. We all know the impact the girls have had on her, and the impact she has had on the girls to have started the bullying.

[momofprecious1]

Are you surprised to learn she'd been best friends with Juliet as a young kid? I was absolutely surprised to find out that they were best friends & I couldn't wait to find out why they weren't friends anymore & why Lindsay was so mean to Juliet.

[tennisgirl3194]

My feelings about Lindsay did change. Now I'm not sure how I feel about her. She seemed to just enjoy being mean to others at first, yet now it may be because of something that happened in the past.

I wasn't exactly surprised to learn that Lindsay used to be best friends with Juliet when they were younger. It just made me more curious as to what happened between the two of them to make Lindsay hate Juliet deeply that she was barely affected by her suicide.

[aprilh]

The more I read about Lindsay in these chapters, the more I started to feel sorry for her. I don't agree with the way she treats others and still find her to be a bully, but I now see there is more to Lindsay than just her tough exterior. The story Sam tells about Lindsay's first time with the college guy was really sad. Then when Lindsay has sex for the first time with her boyfriend, Patrick, she pretends that was her first time, painting over the other memory, making herself believe that was in fact what really happened. It really showed us how much Lindsay doesn't like being hurt and will make up her own reality when faced with a situation she doesn't like.

I was surprised to find out at one time Juliet and Lindsay were best friends. It makes me wonder what went wrong that Lindsay started spreading the story about Juliet peeing in her sleeping bag.

Juliet's suicide totally took me by surprise. I'm assuming Juliet had always killed herself after Kent's party, but since we only see the story from Sam's perspective, we never learned anything after the girls have the car accident. It makes me think that maybe in order to save her own life, Sam has to make some drastic changes in her and her friends' lives so that Juliet's life is saved too.

[Megtall]

We learn a great deal about Lindsay in these chapters. Do your feelings for her change? How would you describe her now?

My feelings really didn't change at all.  I still thought she was a really mean person who cared only for herself.  It wasn't until much later in the book that I understood her a lot better and my feelings did change.

Are you surprised to learn she'd been best friends with Juliet as a young kid?

Not at all.  From my experience, some of the worst enemies started out as the best of friends. 

In this chapter, just when Sam thinks she's escaped her awful fate, we learn of Juliet's suicide. How does this tie into Sam's death? We can guess how much Juliet's probably been tormented by being so rejected, and we know about her young friendship with Lindsay. Is she any less mysterious of a character now?

She is no less mysterious.  Up until the last chapter, I found her to be very mysterious. 

[Bonnie_C]

I think Sam finally sees the depth of Lindsay's meanness.  When the girls learn of Juliet's suicide, Ally and Elody show emotion.  Lindsay acts like she could care less.  Let's hope she is indeed acting.

At this point I can't figure out if Sam doesn't die, does Juliet have to.  What an awful thought that would be for Sam.  Hopefully she can find a way to save them both.

Juliet is such a tragic character.  I'm looking forward to learning more about her.

[Lildove3]

My feelings have not changed about Lindsay, in fact I rahter dispise her emensley,she is totaly

100% true meaning of being a total brat. She really does great acting for anyone who'll pat attention

 to her,including her friends.

No, it doesn't surprise me,she's the type will use you and throw you away like a used klenex.

I believe Juliet's suicide entertwines with Sam's death, in the sense they both had very deep

mental problems and they both were too stuborn to ask for help, for fear of their reputations

being shot down or they did not want to let their walls down to show their true emotions.

No, actually there wasn't much of a mystery about her.

[nicole21WA]

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Rachel-K wrote:

Are you surprised to learn she'd been best friends with Juliet as a young kid?

---

I wasn't surprised because I figured there was some reason for Lindsay to target Juliet.  During this section, I started to wonder when Lindsay's parents got divorced and if there was any connection.

***SPOILER***  I've finished the book

What did surprise me was the truth behind the "Mellow Yellow" story.  I can't believe Juliet let Lindsay get away with it for so many years.  I do understand why she allowed Lindsay to blame her at the time, but she should've made Lindsay realize she would only pretend to be the bed-wetter if Lindsay held up her end of the friendship.  I wish Juliet's parents had recognized Lindsay's need and helped her instead of just making the girls only spend the night at Juliet's.  I can't help but wonder how different Lindsay would've been if someone had gotten her help (therapy or something) when she was struggling to deal with her parents' divorce.