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thewanderingjew
Posts: 2,247
Registered: ‎12-18-2007

Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

 


Rachel-K wrote:

 

 

Knowing the ending: What effect does it have on your reading to open the novel with Mary's death presented to us first, and Cobb beginning to tell a ranger about her? Did this capture your attention or repel you, or both?

 

 

This is what I posted to the author when I was in the early chapters of the book. I still feel this way. "I am glad that you opened the book the way that you did, with the tragedy. Somehow, as the tale continues to unfold, working backwards now, with the injection of humor as a counterpoint to the sadness for the love that is lost, it seems appropriate and makes me feel almost as if I am taking a nostalgic trip back home with memories that could almost be mine, as well. The story is grabbing at my heart strings.
I am not sure if there are any surprises in store for me but I know I eagerly await the unfolding of the tale".

There have been surprising revelations and still, I find that having the foreknowledge makes all the rest of the information easier to understand and enjoy. I often have an "aha" moment because I know that Mary's body has been found and to me, right now, this is the story of her raison d'etre.

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retromom
Posts: 113
Registered: ‎02-02-2008

Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

Oh my gosh I am loving this book! I picked it up yesterday and couldn't pull myself away from it. It was hard to stop after chapter 8 but I'm trying to stick to the schedule.

 

Knowing how the story ends is a good way to tell this story. I love how Cobb is telling this story to the officer. I can feel his emotions and the love he had for Mary through his story telling. The way it is being told really drew me in.

 

I am a hopeless romantic so I do believe you can fall in love quickly. I believe in soul mates and that is what I think Mary and Cobb are. I think they were destined to be together.

 

I think Mary's nightmares reflect the eternal nightmare she is living inside. She says she is not going to let the possibility of having Huntingtons affect her but in reality it does. I think it is coming out in her nightmares.

 

I loved the wedding the Chungamunga's threw for Cobb and Mary. I found it to be very serious as the girls know that every moment in life counts. I am wondering if later on there is a legal ceremony.

 

I am not sure if I would want to know if Mary has the disease if I were Cobb. I think it would be hard not to let it show no matter how hard one would try to keep it a secret. If Cobb becomes overly protective that might mean she has it. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

This book is great and has me wondering if I would want to know if I were Mary or Cobb.

Beth

http://bookaholicmom.blogspot.com/
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maxcat
Posts: 3,902
Registered: ‎11-01-2006

Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

I was intrigued with the first sentence. I wanted to know how she died. I love a good mystery and this book grabbed me from that first sentence. I'm not a romance reader, but this book seems so fluid and you can just read and read and not get lost in too many characters. I think Cobb and Mary were meant for each other. She's a bit forward but Cobb is not put off with it. She is honest about what condition she might have as she claims never to have been tested for Huntington'd disease. He respects that and even encourages her to get the test, which she said she would do after finishing with the Chungamunga girls.

Cobb has a passion for Thoreau; he took time off from school teaching to follow Thoreau's path down the Allagash river. Mary goes with him to a point and breaks off to go to the camp.

I think I would not tell Mary the results of past testing, something she doesn't know about. I haven't read all the book yet.

My life is a reading list.
John Updike
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thewanderingjew
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

 


Rachel-K wrote:

 

 

Most love stories begin with complications and reversals, but the love story between Mary and Cobb is absolutely passionate and --relatively--psychologically uncomplicated from the first page. What effect does this have on  you? Do you believe in immediate true love like this one?

Absolutely, some relationships are made in heaven. I knew I was in love from the moment I set eyes on my husband on the volleyball court. I only hoped that he would feel the same way, and he did.

What do you make of Mary's nightmares?

I believe that the involuntary, seizure like violent movements of her nightmare indicate that her disease may be rearing its head. The nightmares may not be like those of her childhood or they may very well be the same and could have been early evidence of this sleeping giant of a disease.

What do you make of the wedding that the Chungamunga girls arrange for them? How seriously do all of them take it?

I thought it was a very tender, meaningful moment for the girls. They seemed to understand the gravity of its import for all of them, some of whom might never get to experience such an event in their own lives.

What do you make of Mary's conditions for Cobb for continuing to be together? Could you know the test results without telling her?

I believe Mary has a right to live her life on her own terms, so that she can live it to the fullest. I don't think I would want to know the test results either. If they were going to live life fully without the test results, then knowing them, if they were disastrous, would only cast a pall upon them and impact how they lived their lives in the future. Sometimes the unknown is better than the known.

I would be able to keep it a secret if I had the knowledge, in order to protect her, but I would not want to play the role of G-d. It would certainly have to affect my behavior toward her if the news was negative.

If she thought he might give her the news, if it was good news, then his not giving her the news would, in effect, be telling her that it was bad. It is better to leave the disease out of the picture.

 

 


 

 

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Fozzie
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

The book is wonderful so far and very unique. 

 

I am relishing the crow stories that Mary tells (pgs. 55 and 90, for example).  Along the same lines, I made note of Yeti love; "You never expect to see it, but you've heard it's out there and it might just be a legend.  But you keep looking for it anyway."  So clever!

 

Knowing the end of the story didn't really impact me until page 90.  Prior to that, I had assumed that Mary had cancer, or something that happened later in the relationship between she and Cobb.  When I realized, along with Cobb, that Mary may already be ill, I felt sad.  Immediately, though, I realized that I knew more than they did at that point in the story --- Mary must have developed symptoms.  Then the story took on a bittersweet feeling to it.

 

At the end of this section of reading, I am left wondering if Cobb will find out the results of Mary's test.  Even if he didn't tell her, there is no way that knowing the results one way or another would not affect the way he acted.  I think either both have to know or neither can know.

 

I think the writings of Thoreau (a simplistic life) will become more important to Cobb as he uses lessons from them to live his life with Mary. 

Laura

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.
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Fozzie
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8


Anna_Louise wrote:

 love the river and the setting so far along with the Chungamunga girls.  The girls are so in touch with the river and I love the fact that they are always "eternal with the river" once a Chungamunga girl.  I loved how Mary shared her story with all the girls about Cobb and how they woke him up with their song.


The title for the book seems perfect on several levels.  Mary is a Chungamunga girl, so she already has a special bond with that particular water.  Cobb will always remember their trip together on the Allagash, so it is eternal in his memory.  Finally, because Mary died on the water, she is, in a sense, eternal on the water. 

Laura

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.
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emmagrace
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

I was a little unsure about this book at first. I was afraid that it would be a slow read - I was wrong! When I read the first line: "They found Mary's body in Round Pond." I was hooked! I had to know why her body was in Round Pond.

 

I have not experienced immediate true love for myself. For me, love grew over time. It was nice to read about though and I think that for some people, love at first sight exists!

 

Maybe Mary's nightmares are a manifestation of the fear and uncertainty that she feels about her disease.

 

The wedding was very sweet and I believe that the girls took it very seriously!

 

In a way I understand Mary's conditions. I would not want to put anyone through that either. I am not sure if I could keep the results to myself especially if it turned out that the did not have the disease.

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sifu-hotman
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

What do you make of the wedding that the Chungamunga girls arrange for them? How seriously do all of them take it?

 

I liked what someone else here said about this wedding maybe being the only wedding those two will have (by choice), which makes the whole thing very romantic and personal.

 

What do you make of Mary's conditions for Cobb for continuing to be together? Could you know the test results without telling her?

 

No. Definitely not. I don't think it's possible to hide something like that, it would just show on your face.

And if I were Mary I wouldn't let anyone know the results. even if i didn't want to know the truth i would still wonder and would keep searching for the truth in that persons face and behavior towards me. 

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lg4154
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

Having the death on the first pages kinda creeped me out, but after continuing with the story, it was necessary to build the background of who Mary was and her relationship with Cobb. There love was a love at first sight, soul mates reuniting. I do believe in this and it too has happened to myself.

 

Mary's nightmares are a reflection of her concern on the progressions of her disease, knowing that is how her father met his end. As much as she tries to put it out of her conscience mind, it returns in her subconscious while she is dreaming. I think Cobbs relationship is a healthy one with Henry David Thoreau, a way to escape for him and return to the simple pleasures in life. Mary seems to be on the same wavelength as this relationship with Thoreau, just more of her relationship with nature and animals.

 

I loved the wedding with the Chungamunga girls and felt as if they could see the spark with Mary and Cobb. The river meeting once a year is an escape for them and their illness, and it is if they are wishing Mary did not have the disease and could be in love, happily ever after.

 

I thought Marys not knowing the test results was a little weird in my opinion. Knowing that would probably not change much of her life, just getting a greater appreciation of living her life to the fullest like Thoreau.

kch
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kch
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

I agree with you on the nightmares---when she was a child they were just nightmares but I believe the one Cobb witnessed was a manifestation of her illness. I think Mary herself believes that it is too...

Karen
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BookWoman718
Posts: 220
Registered: ‎01-28-2007

Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

Overall, I enjoyed the book, and read it through in one weekend.  I did like the characters, but their story as told by Cobb, almost seemed like one of Mary's allegories.  Lessons to be learned, and all that.

 

The best parts were the stories and descriptions of nature;  I think that must be where the author's true interest lies.  I'm not an adventuring outdoorsperson myself;  I have camped, but rarely in wilderness and I mostly enjoy animals from a safe and domestic distance.  But the parts about ravens and turtles and wolves were wonderful.  Very well written.  I'll hold off commenting on the different settings until later in the discussion, but they were highlights, too. 

 

I have only once personally observed the "llove at first sight" thing - a young co-worker met a man on an airplane, the next day he sent flowers to our office and four months later they were married.  How that all worked out, I'm not sure.  Most of the good relationships I've known came out of much less impetuous beginnings, a more slowly developed dance. 

 

What rang really false for me were the lengthy descriptions of lovemaking.  Would a man really go on and on to a stranger, on the day of his wife's death, about how much with what passion they kissed one another?   Suddenly I'd find myself in a not-very-well-done romance novel, and I'd wonder, "Doesn't this author know his likely readers are adults, and are pretty familiar with how women lie with their heads on their partners' chests already?"   How many times did we need to read about that?  OK, I get it, very strong physical attraction.  Been there, done that, just show me once. And maybe one more mention later, to show it endured throughout their life together. 

 

I thought the opening, and knowing of Mary's eventual death, didn't detract from the story at all;  rather, it drew you in.  At first I couldn't tell if this couple had had a long life together before she died, but then the hints of modernity in the early scenes  made it more clear.

 

As for wanting to know about a physical condition, if I had no idea it was likely, I'd probably not get tested, but if I were aware of the familial odds, I'm sure I'd want to know for a host of reasons.   It's not like Mary was really able to live in blissful ignorance;  she worried every time she stumbled or got confused or even had a nightmare.  If she knew for sure she had it, it would be very little different.  But if she knew she didn't, her life could have a whole different trajectory, and that wouldn't preclude her from counting her blessings and still living very much in the present, doing the things she loved.  

 

The stories of the Chungamunga girls are part of what made this life story sound like a fanciful story;  the potential tragedy, the fairy and princess fantasies, the wise and good giant, all the little heroines sweet and loving and working together.  Nice, but not very realistic.  Just there, as I said, to teach a nice lesson. 

 

 

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GreenFairyLV
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

I'm a little lost on the Huntington's disease.

 

Mary already took care of things to insure she won't have kids.  Her father had Huntington's but she doesn't know if she has it.  This is where I get confused.  If Mary didn't have Huntington's would she still be able to pass the disease on to her kids through DNA?  Is this a trait Mary carries in her DNA because her father had it?

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DSaff
Posts: 2,048
Registered: ‎10-19-2006

Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

It was kind of shocking to learn the ending at the beginning of the book, but, it was also an invitation to read the story that brought the characters to that point. I wanted to find out why Mary decided to die, how she did it, how Jonathon was involved, and what would happen to him. It totally drew me in.

 

I do believe in love at first sight, and so do Cobb and Mary. I don't believe I would act on it as they did, but, their story is believable. Something connects them and it is very powerful. From the beginning pages, it appears that Cobb stays with Mary through everything, and I respect that. I can't wait to see how the next chapters unfold!

 

Mary's nightmares - These seem to be manifestations of her fears. We know she is worried that her loss of balance on the river is a sign of the disease, but I think Mary has worried about it for years. Her nightmares are her mind's way of letting those fears out. She obviously doesn't remember them because she asks Cobb what she did. Maybe they are a true manifestation of the disease, but I think that right now (through Ch. 8) they are a manifestation of her fears. Continued reading may prove me wrong.

 

The wedding was a powerful moment in the story. The Chungamunga girls don't think they have a lifetime to live out their dreams, yet they could give the dream to Mary. She is one of them, she could be dying, she could escape the disease. None of them knows the answer but they can plan and carry out a wedding that to them is real. I loved the wooden rings, and wondered if Mary and Cobb had them coated so they would last. (hopefully answered in the book) Mary and Cobb took it seriously too, and I wonder if they make it "legal" in the real world. Another question I hope is answered.

 

Mary doesn't want to have anyone around her out of guilt. That is why I believe she gave Cobb the conditions she did. She doesn't want pity, nor does she want someone to cling to her if the disease comes and ravages her body. She is protecting Cobb, but she is also protecting her own heart. I would hope that I would abide by her wishes and not give her the test results, but I am not sure I would want to know them either. Life is meant to be lived, not limped through, and I wouldn't want to make her use the time she had limping instead of running.

DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
My blog: http://bookworm56.blogspot.com
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Peppermill
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

[ Edited ]

 


GreenFairyLV wrote:

I'm a little lost on the Huntington's disease.

 

Mary already took care of things to insure she won't have kids.  Her father had Huntington's but she doesn't know if she has it.  This is where I get confused.  If Mary didn't have Huntington's would she still be able to pass the disease on to her kids through DNA?  Is this a trait Mary carries in her DNA because her father had it?


 

Follow-on to GreenFairy's question:  Is Huntington's a disease for which tests exist that would permit one to know whether one could pass on the trait?  Or, is it one of those diseases such that if a parent has it, one is necessarily a carrier?  Or....?

 

 

A second question that I have wrestled with about this first part is how I would feel if my eleven or twelve year old daughter, ill or healthy, attending a highly respected camp, had been part of staging a "wedding", however charming, for two people who had so recently met, regardless of the realness of their love.

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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PiperMurphy
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

I appreciate knowing the ending. Otherwise I would read the book always hoping for a happy ending. One of the things that I like about the book is how real and intelligent it is. I suspect that there will be an uplifting, but realistic ending. So now I will read to see how that plays out.

 

It is refreshing to read a love-at-first-sight love story. This couple has plenty to deal with without adding conflicting personalities. Their relationship is totally believable.

 

Mary claims that she doesn't want to know if her illness is manifesting, but I don't think that a person can put that type of a worry completely out of their mind. I think her nightmares are her subconscious dealing with emotions that she doesn't want to or can't face. I also think that her conditions for Cobb is a way of knowing without knowing. He has agreed not to tell her, but they are developing a relationship where she will be able to "read" him and know the truth.

"When I have a little money, I buy books; and if I have any left, I buy food and clothes."
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msw888
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

I didn't mind knowing the ending at the beginning. At first, her death seems so ugly and too gruesome. I went back and read the first page again and it didn't seem so grim after getting to know her. Also the author did not describe her body in a gruesome way as I thought, it must be too much CSI knowledge. Otherwise, I agree, I liked unfolding of the story and looking back to how the characters came to be.

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LindaEducation
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

[ Edited ]

I was immediately intrigued and drawn to the book as soon as they mentioned finding Mary's body..the mystery reader in me had to find out why and how she died.  I think it is possible to have love at first sight. When my hsuband and I first met in high school he was immeditely drawn ot me and always told me we would marry someday. I didnt even like him that much at first but that soon changed.  We became each other's soulmates and inseperable.  We are still like that even after 31 years of marriage. So, yeah it can happen.  The wedding was a profound part of the book and the girls took it very seriously. They know most of them would never able to ever experience anything like that themselves.  I guess I would chalk Mary's nightmares to her fear and uncertainty about her illness/disease.

You know you've read a good book when you turn the last page and feel a little as if you have lost a friend. -- Paul Sweeney
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msw888
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

Most love stories begin with complications and reversals, but the love story between Mary and Cobb is absolutely passionate and --relatively--psychologically uncomplicated from the first page. What effect does this have on  you? Do you believe in immediate true love like this one?

Most people don't have "conflicts" like those in the romance novels. I felt that it was true to life experience, I believe in immediate true love like this one. I felt this way about my husband, even though we did not date until our second meeting, which I believe was meant to be,


What do you make of Mary's nightmares?

It was an indication of the disease. This is how she subconciously knew that she had it.


What do you make of the wedding that the Chungamunga girls arrange for them? How seriously do all of them take it?


I loved the wedding scene. It gave the girls hope for the future. The girls took it seriously  because they knew the special bond between Mary and Cobb was unusual and meant to be.

 

What do you make of Mary's conditions for Cobb for continuing to be together? Could you know the test results without telling her?

l think it was unfair for Cobb, but Cobb loved her enough to accept it. If I knew the test results, it would definitely show in my actions and my expressions. From Cobb's perspective, any time with her was worth it whether it  be a day for decades.

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Bonnie824
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8


Rachel-K wrote:

 

Please use any of these questions to begin discussion of Eternal on the Water. Also please feel free to post your own questions for the group!

 

Knowing the ending: What effect does it have on your reading to open the novel with Mary's death presented to us first, and Cobb beginning to tell a ranger about her? Did this capture your attention or repel you, or both?

 

It focused my attention on the story of their relationship and her relationship with nature and the camp rather than on whether she would live or die, which was a good thing IMO.

 

 

 

Most love stories begin with complications and reversals, but the love story between Mary and Cobb is absolutely passionate and --relatively--psychologically uncomplicated from the first page. What effect does this have on  you? Do you believe in immediate true love like this one?

 

I think the immediate sexual relationship would have rang truer to me if the characters had seemed prone this way. They didn't though, so it seemed too fast. Falling in love fast, I do believe in though.

 

 

What do you make of Mary's nightmares?

 

I think it is the disease beginning, and I think she knows it.

 

 

 

 

 

What do you make of Mary's conditions for Cobb for continuing to be together? Could you know the test results without telling her?

 

No. I think right away you would tell them if they didn't have the disease no matter what you agreed, and by not saying anything you would be saying they had it.

 

 


 

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Frostbacksgirl
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 1-8

What effect does it have on your reading to open the novel with Mary's death presented to us first, and Cobb beginning to tell a ranger about her? Did this capture your attention or repel you, or both? It captured my attention, because I had to find out why she died. What would make her want to die.

 

Most love stories begin with complications and reversals, but the love story between Mary and Cobb is absolutely passionate and --relatively--psychologically uncomplicated from the first page. What effect does this have on  you? Do you believe in immediate true love like this one? The effect it has on me is that I wish it were that simple. I wish relationships were that simple to where things aren't so complicated in the beginning and it was more easy going and enjoying life. I'm not sure if I believe in this immediate true love. I mean you can connect with someone almost immediately, but doesn't mean you love them. I just don't get how you can love someone without really knowing them.

 

What do you make of Mary's nightmares?

I honestly have not given them much thought.

 

What do you make of Cobb's relationship with Henry David Thoreau? Mary respects his reason for being on this trip. Does she seem to embody any of what Cobb admires about Thoreau? Why do you think this writer is so important?

I believe it took a back burner.

 

What do you make of the wedding that the Chungamunga girls arrange for them? How seriously do all of them take it?

I think it was a sweet thing to do. This was a way for them to be at the ceremony because who knows if they'd be at a real one later.

 

What do you make of Mary's conditions for Cobb for continuing to be together? Could you know the test results without telling her?

She has her own right to live her life to the fullest, so I can understand that. I wouldn't want to know the test results because I wouldn't be able to hold in the results without telling her.

~Sara~