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Zia01
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

In these chapters, we come to see Mary and Cobb create an ordinary life for themselves. Up to this point, we have known them only outside the context of "ordinary" life. Is this life any more "normal" than life on the Allagash or in Indonesia? Do these chapters change the feeling of Cobb and Mary's love being set outside of everyday life?

 

What does the home that Cobb and Mary find say about them? I'm not sure but the home seems to just "fit" them. I think the house is perfect and wouldn't mind living in one like that myself.

 

How is their wedding day different and similar to the mock wedding the Chungamunga girls created for them? What does the gum tree represent for Mary? The mock one was in fun. It felt serious for the girls, but at the same time it was just good fun. The actual wedding day was spectacular even in it's simplicity. Mary chose an amazing spot to bind them. The tree represents life. The ability to withstand what will most defintely come their way.

 

Have you seen All That Heaven Allows? What is it about the film that appeals so strongly to Mary? What is it about the window that the couple share their first kiss in front of? What does the new window do for their home? I have not seen the movie but I can picture that window and thinks its amazing.

 

How do Cobb's and Mary's families and friends take part in these chapters that they haven't before? I loved finally getting to know the people behind Mary and Cobb. The family rounded them out very well.

 

Did you feel prepared to begin seeing Mary's symptoms in these chapters? Are Cobb and Mary prepared? This is going to sound crazy but I wasn't prepared at all. I don't know why, I knew it was coming but it was hard. I don't think Mary or Cobb were either.

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emmagrace
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

The house was so perfect for Mary and Cobb! This setting was as normal as life could get for Mary and Cobb! The found ways to still make their lives very interesting! This setting only increases the feeling of love that they share together for me. It shows me that they can be happy together anywhere!

 

I was expecting Mary's symptoms to present themselves soon, but I was still very shocked and saddened when they did finally present themselves! I think that Mary was prepared for the symptoms. Cobb was prepared to an extent. Cobb was obviously hoping that they would not show, and he seemed to be in denial when they did because he kept saying that they could not be sure what her symptoms meant. Mary was certainly more prepared than Cobb and I.

 

I love that we see more of their families in these chapters! I adore Cobb's father! How sweet was it that he searched for a window exactly like the one in All That Heaven Allows and purchased it for the couple!

 

maxcat asked us if we thought that Mary would turn into a bunny: I think it is quite possible that she will, but I think that maybe she could turn into a crow because at the very end, Cobb spotted a crow.

 

DStaff wrote:


 

I'm glad to know that someone else cried!  :womanwink:

 


dhaupt wrote:

In these chapters we do see the more ordinary everyday side to Mary and Cobb and their lifestyle says so much about who they are. Especially when they design the sleeping porch and the special window in their home to put their personal mark on it.

The also interact with their families more in these chapters and we see the love blossom between Mary and Cobb's dad and between Cobb and Mary's mom that brings them under the big umbrella of family. We also see more of Francis here and get a look into not only growing pains but the difficulties of culture differences and what the meaning of true friendship means.

In these chapters I only see Mary and Cobb's relationship intensifying and solidifying into a happy "normal" married life.

The second wedding between Mary and Cobb have a lot of similarities of the first one with the Chungamunga girls where it's in the open with nature and something with a special meaning near by, in this case it's the old tree who according to Mary was standing in the time of  Joan of Arc. The tree is Mary, it's survived not only in spite of it's conditions but because of them and is today what it is because of it's surroundings. It's seen things in it's lifetime that should never have happened and also that were miraculous.

Although I was prepared for the declining of Mary, my heart nearly stopped when it started to happen. I cried for Cobb as well as Mary knowing what was coming. Who can possibly be prepared for a thing like this. 


 You guys are not alone!!

 

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Vermontcozy
Posts: 5,276
Registered: ‎10-20-2008

Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

I would like to thank Joseph for writing "Eternal on the Water".it spoke to me,it will stay with me.I was very focused on the relationships,Mary and Cobb naturally,but also Francis.He became a focal point for me because of his Gift for music and intelligence.He got it,he was there for Mary.The hardest part for me was to imagine how the Family was dealing with her illness,they are the survivors,difficult times ahead.I knew how it ended,but was still not prepared.Cobb and Mary were so convincing.Relationships so powerful do exist..losing one of the equation,It was difficult at the end.All of us put our own spin on everything we read,naturally.I know that we all have/had questions in our heads about the characters that touched us so deeply,Joan,Wally for me.I will have "Eternal on the Water" inside me for a long time,and hope it touches my friends as deeply.Your talent  shined through,and I look forward to "Eternal on the Water" being a very successful novel.It is meant to be shared. Susan Vtc

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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ambika22
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

 

How is their wedding day different and similar to the mock wedding the Chungamunga girls created for them?

 

Even if the wedding with the Chungamunga girls was fun and they both liked it, i think this wedding is more real and important for them. I liked the fact that they used the same words on both

 

 

Did you feel prepared to begin seeing Mary's symptoms in these chapters? Are Cobb and Mary prepared?

 

Since we already know whats going to happen in the end, since the start of the simpsons you have to be prepared for what's coming next, but i still felt a little bit shocked. I suppose that Mary is more prepared than Cobb, since she knew from the beginning what she was going to do, and Cobb had to prepare himself in a shorter period of time.

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pen21
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

I agree the book is meant to be shared. I have someone ready to read it as soon as the discussion is done.

I also thought a lot about how the Family was dealing with her illness. I thought of many different emotions and regrets, as one done who is losing a loved one.

pen21

 


Vermontcozy wrote:

I would like to thank Joseph for writing "Eternal on the Water".it spoke to me,it will stay with me.I was very focused on the relationships,Mary and Cobb naturally,but also Francis.He became a focal point for me because of his Gift for music and intelligence.He got it,he was there for Mary.The hardest part for me was to imagine how the Family was dealing with her illness,they are the survivors,difficult times ahead.I knew how it ended,but was still not prepared.Cobb and Mary were so convincing.Relationships so powerful do exist..losing one of the equation,It was difficult at the end.All of us put our own spin on everything we read,naturally.I know that we all have/had questions in our heads about the characters that touched us so deeply,Joan,Wally for me.I will have "Eternal on the Water" inside me for a long time,and hope it touches my friends as deeply.Your talent  shined through,and I look forward to "Eternal on the Water" being a very successful novel.It is meant to be shared. Susan Vtc


 

 

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Deltadawn
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

In these chapters, Cobb and Mary lived an "ordinary" life - in their own home, doing everyday things like going to work, etc. -- as opposed to the adventures on the Allagash and in Indonesia.... However, they have an extraordinary view of life and how to live it - each day fully, as Mary says, so their every day life is still special to them.

The home they find is what I would have expected them to find. A small cottage near the woods. It sounds lovely and simple.

Their wedding day is different from the mock wedding in that it is officiated by a justice of the peace, Wally, of course. Also it is different because their families are there (and the Chungamunga girls are not). It's similar to the original wedding with the Chungamunga girls in that it takes place in the out of doors, where they are both happiest. Also, Wally recites the same lines at the end of the ceremony as the Chungamunga girls recited at the end of their ceremony.

 

I have not seen All that Heaven Allows....but am now interested in seeing it, especially for the window. The fact that they were able to locate and install a window so similar to the one that Mary loved in the movie was so sweet.

 

We see their families much more and get much more of a sense of their histories and backgrounds.

 

I did not feel prepared to begin seeing Mary's symptoms so soon in these chapters. I guess Mary must have been somewhat prepared (though even knowing that you can expect these things probably can't completely prepare a person when it really starts to happen) - I don't think Cobb was ready for this to start so soon -- but he was always supportive and loving to her, of course - just hoping for the best.

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Vermontcozy
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves


pen21 wrote:

I agree the book is meant to be shared. I have someone ready to read it as soon as the discussion is done.

I also thought a lot about how the Family was dealing with her illness. I thought of many different emotions and regrets, as one done who is losing a loved one.

pen21

 


Vermontcozy wrote:

I would like to thank Joseph for writing "Eternal on the Water".it spoke to me,it will stay with me.I was very focused on the relationships,Mary and Cobb naturally,but also Francis.He became a focal point for me because of his Gift for music and intelligence.He got it,he was there for Mary.The hardest part for me was to imagine how the Family was dealing with her illness,they are the survivors,difficult times ahead.I knew how it ended,but was still not prepared.Cobb and Mary were so convincing.Relationships so powerful do exist..losing one of the equation,It was difficult at the end.All of us put our own spin on everything we read,naturally.I know that we all have/had questions in our heads about the characters that touched us so deeply,Joan,Wally for me.I will have "Eternal on the Water" inside me for a long time,and hope it touches my friends as deeply.Your talent  shined through,and I look forward to "Eternal on the Water" being a very successful novel.It is meant to be shared. Susan Vtc


 

 To pen21 ..Thank you for your understanding of what I hoped would grace these pages with my thoughts and feelings.It did become very personal,and a tribute to Joseph that he could touch so many with such complex yet simple raw emotions..Glad we are on the same page..Susan..Vtc


 

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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BookBobBP
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

I love the description of Cobb's and Mary's house.  It sounds so cool and an old carriage house built really solid.  It sounds a lot like their relationship built on a solid foundation.   I love the window Cobb's Dad gets for them and puts in their home.  I really enjoyed the chapter about Francis thinking one thing about going to auction looking for antiques and then totally getting into the process.  This book is such an enjoyable read.

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Fozzie
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

We were shown pieces of the "normal" life of Mary and Cobb.  I had to chuckle --- they are outdoorsy!  Even in normal life, they went to Yellowstone and slept outside of their own house.  I liked seeing them in another outdoor setting in Yellowstone and learning more about crows and wolves. 

 

I felt my stomach drop every time we were made aware of Mary's symptoms beginning to present.  It must be very scary to become disoriented like Mary did in Yellowstone. 

 

I was reminded of the multiple meanings of the title when, on page 212, Cobb declared them "eternal on the river," as he carried Mary across the threshhold of their new home.  Mary and Cobb are forever bonded as husband and wife, eternally, on the water of the river.  Love the title!

Laura

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.
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sarah_in_ca
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

Yes, I felt prepared to begin seeing Mary's symptoms in these chapters.  Earlier in the book she had one episode called a "nightmare" at the time, which Mary brushed off.  Later Marty explained more to Cobb and we readers.  The symptoms began building, one here, one there, but nothing like chapters 11-16, when more defined explanations were included in the story.  I have a dear friend with MS who has declined for 24 years with equally difficult symptoms, so I had an idea what might happen.  Both women are very strong and grounded.

 

By the later chapters, Mary has Cobb's total love and support, and they both approach the enevitable end with their eyes wide open, with resolve and commitment.  They are totally prepared, as they must be, for the end is bound to be the most difficult decision they will ever make.

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Lildove3
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

Mary and Cobb's home sais alot about their love for life, their personality and not to mention

the love they have for each other. The house represents them in a big way.

 

The wedding was very unique and the only similarity was at the end of the wedding vows...

I think the tree means of being something solid and stable.

 

No,I didn't see the movie All Heaven Allows...so it's rather difficult to comment on this question.

 

Yes, in part I was sort of able to feel prepared in Mary's symptoms to surface, but I don't think

Mary or Cobb was totally prepared,but in some respects they are becoming more and more

aware of the medical issues at hand.

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Tarri
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

What does the home that Cobb and Mary find say about them?

 

Unlike everyone else who has responded, I felt this house was more Mary than Cobb.  I thought Mary fell in love with the house and Cobb wanted Mary to have what she wanted, because he wanted her to have a wonderful place to call home.  I know he loved the house too, but I cannot see him buying it if he was on his own.

 

Did you feel prepared to begin seeing Mary's symptoms in these chapters? Are Cobb and Mary prepared?

 

I thought I was prepared, but as I read the pages, while waiting in the car dealership waiting room, the tears started.  I think Mary was prepared to die, but not as prepared for the beginning of the end.  Cobb was prepared for the beginning of the end, but dreading losing Mary.    

 

 

 

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Rachel-K
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

Wonderful way to describe the ties between the movie and our novel, thanks!

 


literature wrote:

 

The movie All That Heaven Allows is one of my all time favorites.  I've seen it many,  many times and still cry watching it.  The two things that stuck out most in my mind from that movie was (1) the feelings that existed between Jane Wyman and Rock Hudson, almost from the beginning, and (2) the window.  I never forgot that window.   I thought it was the most beautiful window I'd ever seen.  Even though I now hate winter and also snow, I would love to be sitting inside just so I could look out the window at the beautiful, snowy landscape.  (It's okay to visit snow.)  
Once Jane Wyman said "What the house could be, what their love could be like, what beauty they could share", Mary immediately knew that that was her and Cobb and she would find that house in that setting.  Even though Mary lived with the threat of HD, she was still a positive person and I firmly believe that she would have been no different than if she knew she did'nt have the potential for HD.  Mary found the house and as she said to Cobb "This, my friend, is what positive thinking can do...The universe has heard my call and is now responding."  Not only did she find the perfect house but it also had the Lamprey River running through town.  The river was named for John Lamprey, whose name was Saxon for 'a woodland enclosure where peace is to be found."  Once inside, Mary felt that the house had the same feeling as in All That Heaven Allows.  It resembled the mill building, had wide pine floors, a fire place and bookshelves everywhere. After contemplating which room the window was to go into, Mary wanted it in the livingroom because that's where it was in the movie.  Wally even took a picture of them in front of the window, just like Jane and Rock.
Cobb and Mary have now settled down into a "normal" life but their love still grows strongly.  On the Allagash they had met and started learning about each other.  Indonesia was a getaway vacation where they relaxed but still continued to learn more about each other.  Once they returned back to the states and their jobs, they led the "normal" life and still remained very committed to each other.  This house, plus getting married, completed the emotional bond that they shared for each other. 
The love that Mary and Cobb share with each other is something so beautiful and it can exist in real life. The love at first sight is a feeling between two people and, when found, can be very precious and should be acted upon.  Mary starts to show symptoms of the disease; Cobb is aware of some changes in her and together they try to weather it.  I was not, and still am not, ready for these changes in Mary.  I wanted to see them grow older together and have the disease surface when Mary is much older.  They had so much going for each other, why end it now?  Cobb tried very hard to follow the conditions given by Mary and she helped him.  You have to be very committed to a person to go through this with them and they were.

 

 


 

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pattycakeMN
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

In these chapters, we come to see Mary and Cobb create an ordinary life for themselves. Up to this point, we have known them only outside the context of "ordinary" life. Is this life any more "normal" than life on the Allagash or in Indonesia? Do these chapters change the feeling of Cobb and Mary's love being set outside of everyday life?

 

Their love is strong and continues to grow, although their lives can never be really "normal".  They make the most of each day.

 

 

What does the home that Cobb and Mary find say about them?

 

The house was a perfect find for them.  I liked the antiquing trip, as that is something I have always done myself - I really understand their need to make the home typical of the time it was built.  The grounds around the house keep them near nature which is one of their greatest loves.

 

How is their wedding day different and similar to the mock wedding the Chungamunga girls created for them? What does the gum tree represent for Mary?

 

The wedding was beautiful, and in a perfect place for them.  The gum tree represents eternity, I believe - just like the river is eternal.  The spontaneity of it all was wonderful, and the gifts of crickets in "cages" so perfect.

 

Have you seen All That Heaven Allows? What is it about the film that appeals so strongly to Mary? What is it about the window that the couple share their first kiss in front of? What does the new window do for their home?

 

I have not seen the movie, but want to see it soon !!

 

How do Cobb's and Mary's families and friends take part in these chapters that they haven't before?

 

The friends and family are a great support group for Mary and Cobb - they love them so much.

 

Did you feel prepared to begin seeing Mary's symptoms in these chapters? Are Cobb and Mary prepared?

 

I was prepared for it, and I was glad to see they had many years together before the end actually came.  Although one can never be prepared, I think Cobb and Mary realized what a treasure their relationship was and cherished everyday.  I don't think they wasted a single minute as some of us do in our lives and relationships.

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aprilh
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

I thought it so fitting of Mary's personality that she would wake up one morning and decide that would be the day she and Cobb would get married. Being married in the great outdoors with their family and a few friends surrounding them was the perfect way for them to join their lives together.  I loved how Mary had a secret location all picked out and refused to let anyone know where they were going until they got there. I think for Mary being able to be married next to the gum tree was a way to be a part of something bigger than herself. She knows her life will probably end sooner then it should, so after she is gone, the gum tree will still be there standing strong and in a way her spirit will always be connected with it.

April
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bookloverjb85
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

Before I read the rest of the comments I just wanted to say that even though I knew Mary's symptoms were going to present themselves I was not truly prepared for it.  When Mary and Cobb went to sign the documents for the house, we saw that Mary's signature was not really her signature, it was just a scribbled line.  This took me by surprise and showed me that her symptoms were starting to have an impact on her everyday life.  At this point I started tearing up because I realized it was the beginning of the end.  I knew from here on out the symptoms were going to become more prevelant in her life.

--Jen--

"A house without books is like a room without windows."--Horace Mann
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biljounc63
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

 


bookloverjb85 wrote:

Before I read the rest of the comments I just wanted to say that even though I knew Mary's symptoms were going to present themselves I was not truly prepared for it.  When Mary and Cobb went to sign the documents for the house, we saw that Mary's signature was not really her signature, it was just a scribbled line.  This took me by surprise and showed me that her symptoms were starting to have an impact on her everyday life.  At this point I started tearing up because I realized it was the beginning of the end.  I knew from here on out the symptoms were going to become more prevelant in her life.


The symptoms of the disease hit faster than I expected but I too saw the clue in her signature at the house closing. That was a subtle clue for sure if anybody ever looks at my own signature even I cannot recognize it any more. All I can say is that computer/internet has not been good for both my penmanship or spelling skills!

 

 

Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body.
~ Joseph Addison ~

"Reading lets you visit the world of another"
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Vermontcozy
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

Vtc wrote....I well understand biljounc63,I promised myself to write a review yesterday,but because of the emotional inpact of EOTW,I will try and put down a few thoughts today.A beginning,middle and of course the end.With EOTW,the end is final..Its my belief that another book in the future could help me and maybe others with vivid imaginations,bring a bit more closure.Vtc  Susan..

biljounc63 wrote:

 


bookloverjb85 wrote:

Before I read the rest of the comments I just wanted to say that even though I knew Mary's symptoms were going to present themselves I was not truly prepared for it.  When Mary and Cobb went to sign the documents for the house, we saw that Mary's signature was not really her signature, it was just a scribbled line.  This took me by surprise and showed me that her symptoms were starting to have an impact on her everyday life.  At this point I started tearing up because I realized it was the beginning of the end.  I knew from here on out the symptoms were going to become more prevelant in her life.


The symptoms of the disease hit faster than I expected but I too saw the clue in her signature at the house closing. That was a subtle clue for sure if anybody ever looks at my own signature even I cannot recognize it any more. All I can say is that computer/internet has not been good for both my penmanship or spelling skills!

 

 


 

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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BaseballMomma
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

In these chapters, we come to see Mary and Cobb create an ordinary life for themselves. Up to this point, we have known them only outside the context of "ordinary" life. Is this life any more "normal" than life on the Allagash or in Indonesia? Do these chapters change the feeling of Cobb and Mary's love being set outside of everyday life?

 

I don't think living their "normal" lives changes the feeling of their love for one another. In fact, these chapters were probably my favorite in the book because the reader gets to finally see them coming together under "normal" circumstances. It was exciting to read of them falling in love on the Allagash river and to me, falling even more in love in Indonesia. When they're finally back home, their lives just so easily mesh together. It shows they were meant to be!

 

 

What does the home that Cobb and Mary find say about them?

 

Mary and Cobb's home says everything about them. Mary wanted a house that looked like one in the movie, and she found it. It's simplistic which pretty much sums their way of life up.

 

How is their wedding day different and similar to the mock wedding the Chungamunga girls created for them? What does the gum tree represent for Mary?

 

I think their wedding is very similar to the mock wedding in that it was thrown together quickly and it was simplistic. The whole idea was really romantic with Mary waking up and deciding that today was the day they would be married. I really love that she chose for the ceremony to take place underneath the gum tree. It represents longevity and that what she feels their love has. I have to admit that I did tear up reading that part because the tree held so much meaning, and it was romantic!

 

Did you feel prepared to begin seeing Mary's symptoms in these chapters? Are Cobb and Mary prepared?

 

I felt somewhat prepared to begin to see Mary's symptoms. It was a little shocking to see it happen so soon after they were together, but at the same time I knew that I would soon begin to see it. I don't think Cobb and Mary were prepared no matter what they had told themselves. Mary seemed so confident in accepting her fate back on the Allagash, but when she lost her balance in the kyak, you saw how upset she became over the possibilty of it meaning she did have the disease. In the later chapters, I felt she was a little more prepared because of the incident on the river. But I think Cobb wasn't as prepared when he started to notice little things that he couldn't tell if it was her disease or not.

 

 

 

 

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gold02
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Re: Eternal on the Water, Chapters 11 - 16: Wolves

I think that even Mary and Cobb's "normal" lives are uniquely their own.  They still choose to live close to nature, chase adventures and live life to the fullest.  It is refreshing that they didn't revert to a normal, everyday 9 to 5 existence!

 

Their wedding was similar to the Chungamunga girls wedding for them in that it was outdoors, close to nature and they were surrounded by people who cared about them.  I loved the spontaneity of the moment.  The relationship seemed more deep and real, because they didn't worry about the little details of things and just embraced the moment.

 

It was nice to finally meet people like Cobb's father and learn more about his childhood.  It was also nice to see how such a diverse group of friends and family was able to be there to support Mary and Cobb.

 

I thought I would be more prepared to see Mary's symptoms appearing, because of knowing from the beginning that she was ill.  It was very emotional for me, though, especially when she retired from her job.  I don't think until that scene that I realized how many people she had touched in her work life, since so much of the early part of the book was about her personal life.  For some reason bringing her work responsibilities to a close made me feel so much regret for her and what she could have accomplished if given her health back.  I don't think that Cobb was as prepared as Mary was to see her symptoms, but of course, she had been living with the knowledge of possibly having the disease for her whole life.  I thought it was beautiful that her friends and family could support her in her choices, even though it must have been so very difficult for them.  It was difficult to let go of her just as a reader!