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GreenFairyLV
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

[ Edited ]

Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change?

For me it changed for the better.  These chapters seemed to be written better.  I just enjoyed it more. 

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msw888
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness? I understand Mary's mother's attitude because she has gone through this before with her husband. She is a nurse who knows how the Huntington's disease will progress and has realistic view. Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change? I like the serene setting of Indonesia and meeting Freddy. Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death? No, he was keeping his promise. I think he knew before Mary's mother told him of the test result. For me it would be easier, but denial can be powerful in letting one forget about the illness and just live for the moment. When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure? No, my idea of Cobb did not change. Seemed like he lead a boring life. Mary is mistaken for a doctor, and although she explains that she isn't, she also rises to the occasion, and saves a boy's life in Lombok. What do we see about Mary in these scenes? Does the story of saving the child shed any light on Mary's condition? Does it change your feelings about her sickness at all? I see Mary trying to save someone's life. Somehow, she felt that she had control over a life since she did not have control over hers. By saving the boy's life, she felt that she contributed to someone's life. What impression do you have of the mother and son at the end of chapter ten, when they come to see Mary off, and offer her their gratitude? This scene helped to close that story. I didn't know what happened to the boy until this scene. They were grateful to Mary and showed in their own way that she was respected.
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ESTONE
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

It really felt like Mary’s mother had already come to terms with her Daughter’s illness. This may have been because she had already seen her husband go through it so many years before or that the testing had been done so early in Mary’s life that her mom had the chance to grieve and think about a long time before Cobb came into the picture.  I don’t feel like she was being insensitive; she was very upfront with Cobb and let him know what was going on. 

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?

It was so important to Mary that she not know about her diagnosis; she wanted to live life to the fullest and for her this meant that she did not want the knowledge of her disease hanging over her head every day.  I really felt that Cobb not talking to Mary was his way of letting himself become even closer to her.  Ultimately, I think it is easier to not talk about sickness and death than to talk about it.  The good thing when talking about it is that the emotions can come out then and not when a large decision needs to be made.

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?

I think the background information of St. Paul’s really gives us a good idea of where Cobb was before the story started.  Cobb was much more involved with the higher end of society including the current and past students, parents and alumni of St. Paul’s.  I am not sure if he wanted to get away from all of the politics at St. Paul’s or if his trip was really about getting in touch with himself.   

What impression do you have of the mother and son at the end of chapter ten, when they come to see Mary off, and offer her their gratitude?

This part of the book almost made me cry.  The mother and son really recognized that Mary had saved the son’s life and that she was such an important part of their current existence.  The fact that they had saved up their hard earned money to purchase something special for her was such a great offering.

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floreader
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

CathyB,

Although I did find some parts of the book contrived, I didn't feel the scene where Mary saved the boy's lived was contrived.  I felt it was in keeping with Mary's personality, since she was very brave.

 

It also didn't leave a big impression on me when the boy and his mother come to offer Mary their gratitude.  It was very sweet, but basically what would be the normal thing that people do.

 

Judy

 

 


CathyB wrote:

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

 

I liked Mary's mother. She has known of Mary's illness since she was a child and has obviously

come to terms with it. She loves her daughter very much and just wants her to be happy while

she can.

 

Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change?

 

I liked the change of scenery. I prefer books set in different locales (namely countries other than the US). Did the story change much? No, not really. It was still the idyllic little love story. I liked Freddy ... I found him to be a very interesting character. I liked him and his turtles more than Mary and the crows/bears.

 

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?

 

I am not disturbed by Cobb not talking about the revelation. I agree with Mary's mother. Mary knows and has known since she was a child. Giving her scientific mind, any amount of thought would dictate that in order for her to become a Chungamung girl, she had to be sick.Until I am faced with the situation of a loved one's sickness and death, I could not say whether or not it would be easy ... it would just be speculation; however, some things are easier to talk about/face than others.

 

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?

 

Not really. It was just surface details.

 

Mary is mistaken for a doctor, and although she explains that she isn't, she also rises to the occasion, and saves a boy's life in Lombok. What do we see about Mary in these scenes? Does the story of saving the child shed any light on Mary's condition? Does it change your feelings about her sickness at all?

 

I found this scene to be a bit contrived ... so far we have dying girl meets boy ... instantly, deeply in love ... idyllic surroundings ... sick boy on island ... only person who can save him is dying girl ...


The scene did not change my feelings toward Mary.

 

What impression do you have of the mother and son at the end of chapter ten, when they come to see Mary off, and offer her their gratitude?

 

This is what I thought would happen ... it did not leave a big impression.

 


 

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vpenning
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

As a mother, I understand why Mary's mother wanted to know the truth about her illness. I also understand her respect for Mary's feelings in that regard. I think the way the mother handled it was very classy, and the way the author wrote it spoke of mother's love everywhere.

 

I liked the scene of Mary saving the child. In the recent developments in Haiti, it reminds me of how fagile life is when there is no modern medicine.

 

I was impressed with how the author solved the conflict of the child's snack bite, and wonder if that method truly would work on toxic venom bites.

 

I enjoyed the portrayal of the cultures gratitude traditions, and was pleased with how all the characters reacted to the boy and his mother's send off.

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aprilh
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

I immediately liked Mary's mother. I could not imagine what a sacrifice it must have been for her to know her daughter tested positive for Hunnington's disease (without Mary's knowledge) and still respected her wish to not know the results. I felt this showed how much she loved Mary and wanted her to live as normal a life as possible. As for her attitude about Mary's illness, I felt since she was a nurse she had been faced with many people being sick and eventually dying so she made the best of what time she had left with Mary.

I loved the chapters in Indonesia! I wanted to pack myself up and visit there right away! Mary and Cobb continue their romance in Indonesia, but I felt like they were on another level with each other. Cobb's meeting Mary even though he found out her test results, solidified his love for her and his commitment to her.

I was not surprised Cobb didn't mention what Mary's mother had told him. Mary had laid out her rules about being with her and it would have been wrong for him to tell her the results. I, personally, would have a hard time not talking about a loved one's sickness or death. I would feel like it was the giant elephant in the room. We all knew it was there, but chose to ignore it.

Mary was amazing when she saved the boy's life in Lombok. She reminded the boy's mother she wasn't a doctor numerous times, but no one else knew what to do help this boy. Mary worked with the knowledge she had about the snake bite and made due with what she had to work with to save his life. She was calm and collected and showed how far she would go to help save another's life.

I loved when the mother and son came to see Mary off. They were deeply indebted to her and showed it to her in  a heart warming way.

April
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krb2g
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

 


dhaupt wrote:

 


krb2g wrote:

The thing that made me a little uneasy about Mary's mother is not so much that she already knew that Mary has the HD gene, but that she didn't tell Mary that she knew. It's completely logical (and fair) to me that parents, already knowing a family history of HD, would have a test run on their minor child to see if she carried the gene. It's even logical to me that they wouldn't tell the child at that point the diagnosis or that the tests had been run. I think, though, that as Mary grew up, and reached the point where she could decide for herself whether she wanted to know if she had the disease or not, it would have been more honest of Joan to tell Mary that Joan knew the results of Mary's test.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your opinion, I don't agree with it and let me tell you why.

When Joan found out that Mary carried the gene, Mary was just a child and I'm sure you could agree that Joan couldn't tell Mary then. And as Mary grew up and made her choice about not knowing clear, I don't think Joan could go against her wishes. I don't feel that Joan didn't want to tell Mary, but that she respected Mary's wishes to not know.

Also think about this, by contacting the Chungmunga girls Joan was telling Mary in the only way she knew how that Mary was going to get the disease? I mean only very sick girls got to go on those adventures and Mary wasn't sick when she got the invitation. So I think that by her being invited, learning about the meaning of the girls and participating in the events made Mary aware of the situation without Joan breaking Mary's wish to be told. 

Those are just my thoughts on the subject. What do you think?


 

 

Dhaupt,

 

What I meant, and I'm having trouble expressing it exactly, is that when Joan learned that Mary didn't want to have the test, she should have said something to Mary like: "Your father and I asked for the test for the HD allele to be performed on you when you were a child." I didn't mean to imply that Joan should have heard Mary's desire not to know and then tell her well sorry, we've had the test done and you've got it. I could see the position that telling Mary the test was done when she was a child is tantamount to telling Mary the results were bad, because if she didn't have the gene, and her parents knew that, they would be much more likely to tell her even at a young age. I think Joan knowing and not telling Mary is different than Cobb knowing and not telling Mary because Mary invited Cobb to have that information and that burden, whereas Joan (and Mr. Fury) took it upon her(them)selves to learn. It's a tough question, though, and it doesn't seem to me like there are perfectly clear cut or correct answers to be had.

 

I also agree that Mary's involvement with the Chungamunga girls would demonstrate to most people (assuming that everyone invited has a bad diagnosis, and not, say, a high genetic probability of a bad diagnosis) that she carries the HD gene, and that Mary, in some senses knew about the disease before the symptoms started to manifest.

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Sherry_Young
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

I think by the time that we meet Jean, she has had years to deal with Mary's illness. I know many nurses who deal with illness in a very clinical way because that has been their profession for so long. She loves Mary for who she is.

 

Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change?

It is such a drastic change of scenery. We see Mary and Cobb less in the new lovebird role and more in an anxious light when they first reunite in Indonesia. Cobb gets the opportunity to see Mary in the role of little sister as opposed to the big sister to the Chungamunga girls. Cobb and Mary enter the stage of their relationship that I like to call contentment - truly in love and happy to be together.

 

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?

That did not disturb me. I was surprised that Mary's mother kept the secret from her. I wonder if she was waiting to tell her at an older age or if she made Mary's choice by deciding to keep it from her. I think that communication is important, but I've never had to deal with a death sentence. I don't think you would know until you face it yourself.

 

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?

I don't think that Ken's discussion of St. Paul's made Cobb's life much clearer. I think I already had envisioned a bit of life at the school. Of all of the characters, I think that the Carters were the least relevant to the story line.

 

Mary is mistaken for a doctor, and although she explains that she isn't, she also rises to the occasion, and saves a boy's life in Lombok. What do we see about Mary in these scenes? Does the story of saving the child shed any light on Mary's condition? Does it change your feelings about her sickness at all?

We see Mary struggling but yet saving another's life when there is nothing she can do to save her own.

 

Let children read whatever they want and then talk about it with them. If parents and kids can talk together, we won't have as much censorship because we won't have as much fear.
— Judy Blume
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Leeza14
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

For me, this section of the book was my favorite.  I loved the description of the new setting and found myself immersed in the story.  I felt as if I were there.  I loved the turtles (moreso than that crows), and I loved Freddy's love for them and dedication to them.  I think that parallels his love for Mary; he is dedicated to his family even though he is not physically with them all the time.  I think the trip gave Cobb a better insight into Mary's family as a whole and made him love her even more.

 

While I understand Mary's saving of the boy is somewhat ironic (she cannot save her beloved Chungamunga girls or herself), I didn't enjoy that part of the story.  I get how it contributed to the story, but I just didn't like reading it.  However, it didn't detract from my love of this book.

 

I like Mary's mother and completely understand why she needed to know many years ago whether or not her precious daughter was a carrier of HD.  Because of her professional background, I can see where she could deal with Mary's situation very matter-of-factly on the surface level; I'm sure it's part of her medical training.

 

I didn't really want to go to Yellowstone--I wanted to stay in in the tropics and keep Mary's life as good as it was during those days.

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lisabalf
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

 Mary's mother is a very strong person. Having gone through it before and already knowing it was heartwarming to me that she wanted Mary to live her life to the fullest.

 

Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change?

I don't know if it changed but it made me want to be there releasing the turtles :smileyhappy:

 

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?

 Not disturbed one bit. He was following her wishes.  For me in that situation if my loved one wanted to talk about it we'd talk about it but if like Mary, they didn't want to discuss it and just live then that is what we'd do. 

 

 

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nymazz
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia


Rachel-K wrote:

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

She has know about Marys' illness since Mary was young, also her husband died from the same thing, and taking into consideration her job description I don't think there will be any surprises for her, as far as how the illness progresses.   In regard to how  she is emotionally handling Marys' pending death, I think she draws strength from Marys strong will to continue on each day as though nothing is happening.

 

 

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?

I was not bothered by Cobbs silence. I think he is respecting her wishes, which he agreed to do from the start.  If they had been in a loving relationship for many years it might have seemed strange, but at the point when Cobb talks to Marys' mother their relationship is relatively new time wise. They are deeply in love but I think the time factor makes it easier for Cob to keep his promise.

 

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?

Reading this made me feel as though Cobbs life was very lonely, I pictured Robin Williams in Dead Poets Society.  Teaching at a prep school, being there all hours, and weekends, he had no life, He wants to help the kids, but its at a great sacrifice.  I think he was burning out, and that's what made him take the sabbatical, and I think its  what made him focus on Walden and maybe a simpler life.

 


 

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are. -Mason Cooley-
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Deltadawn
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia


bookloverjb85 wrote:

This is exactly what I was thinking and feeling as I was reading the other posts, as well.  I just took it as the fact that Mary did have some knowledge of medical procedures and was able to help as much as she could.


 

I agree.

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Deltadawn
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

I really like your interpretation of this section, Sandy!

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Deltadawn
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

I feel that Mary's mother has a deep and abiding love and respect for her daughter. I really liked this character and sympathize with her greatly.

 

I absolutely loved these chapters which took place in Indonesia. They give more insight into Mary's character and family life. They also provide insight into Mary's strength, love of humanity and life, and resourcefulness. I wish I could visit this beautiful island and meet the people who live there, including Freddy and his turtles!

 

I was so moved by the mother and the son at the end of chapter ten.

 

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stkong7
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

I'm not sure if Mary's mother is the way she is because she knows how Mary feels about other people handling her disease.  But I like their attitude about it.  Life is a celebration, no matter how long we have it.  Just like when we are born, dying too is a celebration.  I like that Mary is not just sitting around depressed about her situation, but is living life to the fullest.  Maybe she can have that kind of energy for life, because she knows she doesn't have long.  Which is something we all take for granted.

 

Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change?

 For one, it makes me want to visit Indonesia.  The description of the place was really good to the point where I can actually envision it.  I think the heat of Indonesia and the feeling of paradise, gives the reader some reprieve from the cold in Maine.  Beach vs. camping or kayaking in the cold.  I like the dramatic differences developed in the story.

 

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?

I think Cobb is respectful of Mary and truly loves her.  Mary honestly did not want Cobb to tell her about the test results, and I like that Cobb obeyed her wishes in that respect.  They both know that she is sick, and so I understand that by not confirming that she has the disease, helps her to be somewhat deluded, but in a good way.  SHe has some hope, and continues to live life to the fullest.

 

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?

Not really, it just gave me a better understanding of the type of school Cobb taught.

 

Mary is mistaken for a doctor, and although she explains that she isn't, she also rises to the occasion, and saves a boy's life in Lombok. What do we see about Mary in these scenes? Does the story of saving the child shed any light on Mary's condition? Does it change your feelings about her sickness at all?

 Mary is very caring.  As a child she cared for sick animals.  I think because of her illness, she has a connection with people/animals that need help.  I don't think it sheds any light on Mary's condition.  I think despite her illness she is strong, and can handle anything that comes her way.

 

What impression do you have of the mother and son at the end of chapter ten, when they come to see Mary off, and offer her their gratitude?

I think they are truly appreciative of what Mary did for them.  They went to extremes to borrow clothing to perform the ceremony in the right way.  It was the most they can do given their situation.

 

 

dg
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dg
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

I loved Mary's mother and thought how she handled things was great.  It has to be extremely difficult to be able to accept this illness and not overprotect your child when you know what lies ahead.  Mary's mother was able to to allow Mary to live her own life to the fullest and to be there to support how in whatever way Mary wanted her to.  I never considered that she should have told Mary that she had the test done and had the results.  I thought everything she did was in consideration of Mary's feelings and allowing Mary to live her life the way she wanted.  Having the results to that test was the one thing I felt that she had done for herself, to help her to know how to cope with, and be prepared for, what would lie ahead. 

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maxcat
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

My impression of Mary's mother is that she is honest, forthright and had no qualms about telling Cobb the truth about Mary's illness.

Indonesia is a big landscape change from the woods of Maine. It's open, there are different animals and sea life there and the main theme changes to Freddie and his turtles. I think at this point, knowing Cobb knows the truth, he feels Mary knows already what she has as an illness. He doesn't have to tell her and feels comfortable with that decision.

When Cobb finds out that Mr. Carter went to St. Paul college a long time ago, he may be thinking about the ordinary life he led, but it seems there are more important issues on his plate at the moment. I wonder if he ever goes back to teaching at this point.

It was interesting that Mary knew how to save the boy's life. She must have known CPR, but the call for a tracheotomy was disturbing only for a minute. The boy's life had to be saved and if anything was done wrong, he would have died anyway. Saving him made Mary sort of a hero in the mother's eyes. If I was in the same situation on a remote island with no doctor, I think I would be grateful that someone of nonmedical experience came along and saved my son's life.

Mary did seem competent to do the job and knew to perform CPR on the boy first.

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JuneC
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

 


Rachel-K wrote:

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

 

I'm fond of this character. I appreciate her is straightforwardness and  warmth. Clearly she only wants both Cobb and Mary to be happy whether or not  they chose to move the relationship along. In sharing her feelings with Cobb she is not pushy.  

 

 

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ssizemore
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia


Deltadawn wrote:

I really like your interpretation of this section, Sandy!


 

Thanks!  Sometimes I think I am WAY out in left field!  I was a high school English teacher and my son used to tell me that the author could not possibly have meant all the things I came up with.  That's why books are so wonderful, though---everyone sees things in his own way.  Don't we all come away richer from seeing all of these comments.  Really gives me food for thought! Sandy

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dreyslibrary
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Re: Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

 


Rachel-K wrote:

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

I think Mary's mother has had a really long time to get used to the idea of Mary's illness, and actually be accepting of it. Some things just are and there's not a whole lot you can do about it. I thought her attitude was refreshing, actually.

 

Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change?

The entire story so far has this languid feel about it. Indonesia didn't change that, in my opinion, regardless of the fact that it's halfway 'round the world. 


Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?

Actually, surprisingly, no. It would've gone against his nature (as in the book) to discuss that with Mary, knowing how Mary felt about knowing. 

 

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?

 

 

Mary is mistaken for a doctor, and although she explains that she isn't, she also rises to the occasion, and saves a boy's life in Lombok. What do we see about Mary in these scenes? Does the story of saving the child shed any light on Mary's condition? Does it change your feelings about her sickness at all?

I loved how Mary rose to the occasion. Compassionate, clear-headed, on point. At one point I thought that she must've spent time at the hospital, enough to know the basics about conditions and treatments. 

 

What impression do you have of the mother and son at the end of chapter ten, when they come to see Mary off, and offer her their gratitude?

I really liked the symbolism. Balinese have this connection to the spiritual that most others don't. I only hope that it's accurately depicted, lol.