Eternal on the Water: Chapters 9-10, Indonesia

[debbaker]

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

There wasn't much information about her. She seems practical and loving. Since my children have not completely left home yet it is a little harder to imagine.

Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change?

The story doesn't really change. For me the surroundings and storyline detract from the believability of the story. I am just not quite buying into it. Seems to perfect, too nice.

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?

No. He agreed to not tell Mary. He is respecting her request.

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?

Not really. It was too brief a look.

What do we see about Mary in these scenes? Does the story of saving the child shed any light on Mary's condition? Does it change your feelings about her sickness at all?

She seems too good to be true and too knowledgable. I guess it is possible she could have learned these skills but it is rare.

What impression do you have of the mother and son at the end of chapter ten, when they come to see Mary off, and offer her their gratitude?

This is a part that I could buy into. I can imagine/see that they would want to show respect and appreciation.

[debbaker]

I am also a high school English teacher. I like your insight but I still find the entire scene a bit contrived. It just seemed to go a little too far.

[sarah_in_ca]

Mary's mother is a woman of great mental strength and understanding.  Although knowing, from an early age, that Mary had a life-ending illness, she urged Mary to go beyond her problems and enjoy life.  Mary's mother did not coddle her as a child, trying to protect her from the inevitable by keeping her safely at home.  Whereas other mothers might keep their child at home and protect it from unseen dangers, Mary's mother let her go.  That took strength of character.  Even at the end, she let Mary go, supporting her decision, as it should be.

[ponkle]

While spending some time traveling up north My husband somehow ended up with my book so He is reading it now and enjoying it so I guess that's good since it got him reading a book I was really enjoying. I'll try to get him to answer some of these questions since it will be awhile until I get the book back since he's out of town. It's so hard though to have read 8 chapters and then wait to read the rest but thankfully I have some other books to read in the meantime.

[HannibalCat]

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nbmars wrote:

I liked Mary's mother too.  She came to terms with it, she coped, and she stayed strong.

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I think when a mother is aware of a child's future, and the dire consequences of that future, there is little to do but cope. You hang in there, hope for the best, but you KNOW the best won't happen. What is left to do? You have to be strong for your child. Mary's mother was doing the best for Mary. I think the nursing profession really didn't have that much to do with it. Its the motherhood profession. If you are a strong person, you will cope, if not there is too much pain for both mother and child. I admire Mary's mother as a mother.

You did not mention her mother's nursing profession, are you in agreement, or do you think the nursing had a lot to do with her attitude? I'll be interested to know you opinion.

[hookedonbooks09]

First of all, thank you, Joseph, for introducing me to Indonesia!  I had never researched this country and all of its beauty.  You made me "go look"!

As for Mary's mother's attitude and approach to Mary's disease and Cobb's involvement in her life?  I think she is acting like any mother who knows how this will probably go down and wants the most and best for Mary in her limited lifetime. 

Yes, she knows the pain from living it herself.  Maybe she feels the time she had with Mary's father was worth going through this with him, and sees similarities in the potential relationship of Mary and Cobb?

At first, I thought she was a little blithe about it all, but she made some very valid points---none of us know when our time will be---but those with a chronic disease have "insider information" the rest of us don't.

With all of the current writing and awareness of spiritualism today, I think this train of thought fully captures the idea of living in the moment and taking from it all we can.

Barb

[AnnJE]

I thought Mary's mother's attitude toward her illness was right on.  She has known since Mary was a child and knew that Mary didn't want to know - something I agree with.   I think deep down Mary knew.

Her mother was brave and supportive - she let Mary live her life the way she wanted to.

[ladybug74]

I felt like Mary's mother loved her daughter and wanted her to be happy. She knew about her illness, but wanted her to be happy and enjoy life while she was still able to do so. She was honest with Cobb about Mary's illness, but did not want it to keep Mary from enjoying the time that she had left.

The landscape changes because Mary and Cobb travel to a beach area in Indonesia, where Mary's brother lives. They continue to be involved with nature, but the focus is on the ocean and the sea turtles.

I was not disturbed by Cobb keeping Mary's illness to himself.This was Mary's wish. He would have to be a very strong person to be able to keep this to himself and not behave differently as a result of finding out that she was ill. I don't think I would be able to be as strong as Cobb. It would be easier for me not to know if my spouse didn't want to know the test results. If I did know, I am certain he would be able to tell what the results were by my reaction.

When Ken Carter and Cobb discuss St. Paul's, it makes me see Paul as more of a normal person who has to work for a living. Though he has been on vacation and enjoying nature and life with Mary, this shows that he has a "normal" life to return to once this is over.

I honestly don't see how saving the child's life connects with Mary's illness, other than the fact that she thinks she may lose her own life eventually from her illness. These scenes illustrate how strong Mary is and how knowledgeable she is about snakes (and nature in general.) Most people would have been afraid of being sued if their efforts weren't successful, but this did not concern Mary. I am not sure if this would even be an issue in Indonesia, but it would in the U.S.

The mother and son were very appreciative of Mary for saving the boy's life. I am certain they would always remember her and tell their grandchildren one day about the amazing woman who saved the boy's life.

[parisianrose]

I cannot begin to explain how much admiration I have for Mary's mom.  To accept that your daughter is going to die in an unnatural way is a tough thing to do, but she's done it in the best way possible.  She understands that Mary needs to live her life fully, no matter how corny that may sound.  Perhaps Mary has the most to do with this though.  Perhaps, Mary's strong will and zest for life is inspiration for her mom, who in turn is able to give up pretending everything will be okay.

[Carmenere_lady]

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness? I think it rather clinical.  But she accepts it and that's just the way it is.  For the life of me I can not understand why she didn't tell Cobb that Mary has Huntington's when he came to her office.  Why, for heavens sake, did she wait till the man was on the other side of the world to tell him.  Was she trapping him?  Did she know all along that he would go no matter what the results?

Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change?  As a travelogue this story really works.  I loved the breezy atmosphere of Gili, the carefree days.  This section was a bridge from fairly healthy Mary to Yellowstone's showing definitive signs that her illness is progressing Mary.

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?  No, not disturbed.  Cobb knows Mary knows, Mary knows that Cobb knows.  So why not  just have fun, make it a wonderful memory!  Don't bog it down with all this talk of sickness and death at this time.  There will be time for that back at home.

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?  Oh come on!  This was way too coincidental!  I thought it so ridiculous that I wasn't giving it much thought other than to how obsurd it is.

Mary is mistaken for a doctor, and although she explains that she isn't, she also rises to the occasion, and saves a boy's life in Lombok. What do we see about Mary in these scenes? Does the story of saving the child shed any light on Mary's condition? Does it change your feelings about her sickness at all?  I thought this whole scenario a bit over the top but with that said, Mary seems to be a controlled individual and I believe since she saw a way to possibly save the boy she tried all she could to make it work.  If there were a way for her disease to be treated she would go to any means possible but she knows the subject is mute.

What impression do you have of the mother and son at the end of chapter ten, when they come to see Mary off, and offer her their gratitude?  I thought it sweet and touching. 

[starie_nite]

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

I personally like Mary's mother.  Mary has chosen to live her life to the fullest, regardless of the diagnosis.  Even though Mary's mother knows the outcome, she allowed Mary to live exactly the way she desired.

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?

I am not disturbed by it at all.  I actually appreciate Cobb a little more for not even hinting that he knew the truth.  I think it would be difficult to be around someone knowing the information he knows and not treat that person any differently.  That in itself would give away the knowledge that he possesses.  

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?

This conversation take about 2 paragraphs, so I don't think you get any insight into who Cobb really is.  Most of the discussion here is about professors they know and little insight is given into Cobb as a person.

What impression do you have of the mother and son at the end of chapter ten, when they come to see Mary off, and offer her their gratitude?

I love that Monninger chose to add information in his story about another culture.  He actually sheds more light onto Mary's character by having her try to understand what her response should be to their actions.  The repaying of respect is very common in other cultures, and I like that Mary is written in an attempt to understand and respond to this showing in a respectful way.

I am sad that this trip to Indonesia didn't bring more light and understanding to the story for me.  At this point, I am only getting quick glimpses of Mary and Cobb, the world and people around them, and then we are on to another topic.  I live for character development, and I am just not getting it here. 

[floreader]

I think Mary's mother is a very practical and intelligent woman.  She knows that Mary will not have a long life and yet she tries to give her "wings" and let her experience life to the fullest.  She tries to deal with things in the moment, and look past the inevitable sadness of what will happen in the future.

I wasn't disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation.  I don't know if I could do the same, but I admired him for doing as he promised.  I'm sure he really to wanted to talk to Mary about it, but sometimes it's better to live in the moment and experience the little day to day joys.

[jb70]

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?  I thought her mother was very straightforward and realistic about the illness.  I wondered if, along with having a sick parent, if Mary was included as a Chungamunga girl because of the high likelyhood that she too would develop the illness.

Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change?The change was kind of jarring at first, to go from the peaceful river and forest landscape to an island that was hot and crowded.  It seemed beautiful but so different, like a land out of time almost like the legend from the bar menu.

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?  He knows Mary does not want to know for sure, although she seems pretty sure that she is sick.  I think once he knows it is for sure there is no point in his talking with her about it, but at the same time it makes him watch her even more looking for the signs she may not see herself.

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?In a way yes, but it also seemed like a bit of a lonely purely academic life that didn't fulfill all of his needs.  I wonder how his life will be changed once again once Mary is gone (since we know from the beginning that she dies.)  I also wonder how long the two of them will get to have together since the beginning didn't really give what age they were at the time of her death.

Mary is mistaken for a doctor, and although she explains that she isn't, she also rises to the occasion, and saves a boy's life in Lombok. What do we see about Mary in these scenes? Does the story of saving the child shed any light on Mary's condition? Does it change your feelings about her sickness at all?  If she is so able to face head on the child's grave situation and soldier on through it why is she unable to do the same for herself.  While the illness would change her life once it's symptoms onset, why not change your focus and enjoy the good that is left and deemphasis the negatives.

What impression do you have of the mother and son at the end of chapter ten, when they come to see Mary off, and offer her their gratitude?That they are showing her that she will never really be alone in spirit.

[MelissaW]

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

I believe that Joanne is a very strong woman.  Long ago, she found out and accepted that her daughter was ill.  She loves her daughter and in some ways protects her from reality by not telling her that she is positive for Huntington’s.  She lets Mary live her life as she wants, not being constrained by “what cannot be”.

Our landscape changes dramatically in these brief chapters. How does the story change?

Aside from the fact that the story moves to Indonesia for a little bit doesn’t really change the story about Mary and Cobb.  It is still about them and how they interact with each other and with others.  This is still their love story and you can see that they love each other.  It was interesting to see how Cobb interacted with Mary’s family and to see how they handle Mary since her mother knows that she is ill.

Are you disturbed by Cobb not talking to Mary about her mother's revelation? Would it be easier to talk or to not talk about a loved one's sickness and death?

Cobb was respecting Mary’s decision not to know if she was ill or not.  I might not agree with her decision and with Cobb’s keeping it from her, but this was her life and her choice.  I think that it would be very difficult to know that the person that you love is going to die and to not talk to them about it.

When Ken Carter talks of going to school at St. Paul's, do you get a clearer idea of who Cobb is, or what ordinary life was like for him, just before the novel opened and he embarked on this adventure?

Not really.  This just seemed like a stray bit of information that was thrown into the story.  It really didn’t’ add that much for me.

[MelissaW]

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MelissaW wrote:

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

I believe that Joanne is a very strong woman.  Long ago, she found out and accepted that her daughter was ill.  She loves her daughter and in some ways protects her from reality by not telling her that she is positive for Huntington’s.  She lets Mary live her life as she wants, not being constrained by “what cannot be”.

Sorry people.  I couldn't read my own writing and misspelled Joan's name.  I think that I need a vacation.  sigh...  Off to continue writing up answers to questions and my review.

[nfmgirl]

Mary's mother accepts her daughter's fate, and respects her daughters wishes to not have her life designed by this disease. She just wants her daughter to have a full and happy life, and I think she knows that she can lead a relatively full life, even if it is stunted.

I respect Cobb's ability to not discuss Mary's condition with her. She doesn't want to know, and he abides by her wishes. She feels that only through ignorance may she live a full life.

Indonesia seemed to take on a more "real" feel. Their time in the Allagash was something of a dream-like state. It was fantastical, and didn't seem quite real, made even more surreal by the Chungamunga girls. In Indonesia, Cobb lives with the weight of the knowledge that Mary is sick and it is only a matter of time before he will lose her, and therefore he needs to cherish every moment he has with her.

[ilenekm]

I cannot imagine watching ones husband die of an awful disease and knowing that your child has the same ailment and will suffer as well.  Mary's mother is a very strong woman.

I agree with many of the other posts how important it was for Mary not to know that she was afflicted. Even without knowing, she was constantly looking for symptoms.

[drbjaded]

What is your impression of Mary's mother, and of her attitude toward Mary's illness?

The story doesn't really change.  They move from the river girls to Freddy and his turtles.

Mary didn't want to know so I don't think it would have done any good to tell her about the test.  He needed to respect her wishes and keep to his agreement.  I think it would be easier to talk about it but it would hurt more.  Sometimes being out of thought is out of mind.

He didn't really have much of a sense of adventure.  I think this trip to trace Thoreau's steps was a great undertaking and it paid off because he met Mary. 

She's on her toes.  I was hoping she wouldn't make a mistake or do something wrong.  She kept telling the mother that she was not a doctor.  She really took on the job and the responsibilities.  She was prepared, took her time and succeeded in saving the boy's life. 

They are DEEPLY grateful for Mary's work.  They are indebted to her for the rest of their lives.  They do a lot to go through the ritual to show Mary just how grateful they are for her lifesaving maneuvers.