Francis

[Rachel-K]

We heard a bit of Francis' background earlier in the novel, but he's a character we get to know in these middle chapters, as he grows into Cobb and Mary's circle of family and friends. What, if anything, surprises you about Francis' character when we get to meet him?

How would you describe him? How is he being disruptive at school? Do you see any of that behavior in his character while he is visiting with Cobb and Mary?

In what ways is St. Paul a place as out of the ordinary for Francis as the Allagash or Indonesia is for Cobb and Mary?

What is the nature of the "suicide pact" that Francis had been a part of at home? Why do you think his friends' carried through with it? What is the pull of it for Francis?

[milkamilka]

We heard a bit of Francis' background earlier in the novel, but he's a character we get to know in these middle chapters, as he grows into Cobb and Mary's circle of family and friends. What, if anything, surprises you about Francis' character when we get to meet him?

The fact that he adapts to well to the circle of Cobb and Mary suprised me a little. And the fact that when they go to the auction he knows about that kind of stuff and that way begins to feel like part of the circle

How would you describe him? How is he being disruptive at school? Do you see any of that behavior in his character while he is visiting with Cobb and Mary?

I think that he is extremely smart and maybe even little bored with the school because he has no challenges there.I think that in school he has to keep up this "role" but when he is with Mary and Cobb he can be himself.

In what ways is St. Paul a place as out of the ordinary for Francis as the Allagash or Indonesia is for Cobb and Mary?

I get the picture that St. Paul is this preppy school mainly for white kids. Francis has gotten scholarship, if I remember right, and he really does not feel like he belongs there with the rich white kids.

[dhaupt]

Francis is an incredible character and when the story is told is my favorite supporting character in the book.

He faces so many trials for a young man, ones that I never had to deal with. He's in culture shock as well as shock itself with the first death of his boyhood friend. We all know that peer pressure talks some of us into trying things we shouldn't and doing things we shouldn't at a time of our lives where we feel incredibly immortal. But Francis has to face his mortality and how to face his fears and overcome them. He's both mature for his age and immature especially in social situations that he feels either uncomfortable with or unwelcome by. St. Paul's is an unfamiliar and in ways unchartered territory for Francis. He often feels out of his element there.

[coffee_luvr]

I thought it was surprising to take someone like Francis' character and have him playing a piccolo.  Not at all the kind of instrument you would expect a young man to play.

I thought that Francis was more sensitive than what you would expect.  He is one of my favorite supporting characters in the book.  I thought that when Francis was away from the influence of his friends and living environment and away from the school, he displayed quite a sensitive nature.   He seemed comfortable around Mary and Cobb.

Francis' mother saw something in Francis that could allow him to be successful given the right influences and learning.  Although not sure a Prep School was the only solution, in this case that was the environment he was put into.  I don't think he ever felt comfortable in the school and he seemed to struggle with being there and still being part of his friends and circle that he grew up in.  Kindof a "foreign" land if you think of it that way.  I imagine the environment could have been intimidating too.

The suicide pact was an interesting storyline; Francis and his friends made a pact that if one of the group took his life, they all would follow.  It is a horrible situation to consider, but I think part some of the group followed thru in a sense of honor and to keep their word.  Francis not following thru could be read by his peers as fear, cowardice and disloyalty.  Although personally I feel suicide is more cowardly but with his peers, it was not looked at that way.

[dg]

I would have like to have read more about Francis.  I thought the character was very interesting and would have like to have known him better.

[nfam]

Francis is exactly the kind of intelligent outcast that would find a home with Mary and Cobb. They love their students, the out of doors and each other, but their love is big enough to encompass a boy who can't find his place. 

I thought Francis was an excellent character. He demonstrated the commitment Cobb and Mary had to their students. He symbolized hope. He could overcome his hereditary problems. Mary couldn't. He made an excellent counterpoint to the tragedy in the story.

[maxcat]

Francis' character pops up at St. Paul's as being disruptive in class. Cobb talks to him and finds out that long ago, Francis and a few friends made a suicide pact where if one kills himself, the others must follow. It disturbs Francis when he hears that one of the friends kills himself and now he worries about the fact of becoming a suicide case. Cobb talks him out of it for now. Francis plays a great secondary role in this book. He meets with Cobb and Mary and goes antiquing for furniture and plays a part in the bidding at an auction. We later meet up with Francis through a phone call to Cobb about a second friend who killed himself by way of the police. Francis is distraught and Cobb, who is in Yellowstone at that point, talks to him again.Cobb starts to tell Francis about the different animals he is seeing and it calms Francis down. When it is time for Mary to pass on, Francis is present the night before as are all her friends and family and Cobb's family.

I know at one point when Cobb was talking to Francis for the first time, he mentioned something about St. Paul's being a "whitey" school. That seems passed over and nothing more was said about the matter.

[pen21]

Francis was a good supporting character, not taking over the story. Involving Francis in Mary and Cobb's life showed the openness they shared, not just with each other but with those around them.

pen21

[PB684]

I was just over at the "reviews" link and read a review written by someone who wasn't very impressed with this book. While I will not go into the many reasons why I disagree with him/her I just wanted to say that I completely disagree with the comments regarding Francis. He/she stated that "no student would ever be like that with a teacher". I can say from personal experience that is completely untrue! When I was in High School we had a history teacher who always went out of his way to help students both in and out of the classroom. Like Cobb, he was very much a "nature buff" and took many groups of students on hikes, canoeing, bird watching, etc. mostly on his days off. His classroom was always open to anyone with a free period who wanted to talk or just sit quietly. He inspired so many of us to love nature and to do for others. He and his wonderful wife had an "open door policy" at their home as well. Anyone who didn't have a place to go for Thanksgiving always had a standing invitation at their house and you always felt like you were part of their family...much like Mary and Cobb!

Eventhough I graduated many years ago I still saw these wonderful people at least once a year. Two summers ago I found out that he had been killed in an accident and I was devastated. I can't tell you how many of his former students attended his funeral. It was like a High School reunion with everyone crying and singing his many praises. Thank you to Joseph Monninger for creating a relationship like Cobb's and Francis'...yes it does exist in reality!

Paula

[girlie0620]

Francis was a character that spoke to me- he went through this experience twice- that made him question promises he made in the past- to people he was bonded with at the time.

Cobb and Mary accepted him into their family openly. They didn't expect anything and gave unconditional love and guidance. I agree that he could signify hope- coming from a "dysfunctional" background" and being extremely smart that he caused trouble in school- due to probably boredom- anyway- moving forward with his new family (Cobb and Mary) and always being a part of their lives. Cobb and Mary again show committment to students and others by taking him in without question.  

He was a wonderful addition to the story.

[DSaff]

I was happy to learn more about Francis as the story progressed. I was worried about him! How would I describe him? I think he is an ordinary kid with an extraordinary intellect. He is a young man trying to balance his home life with his school life, and sometimes they just didn't mesh. As he moved into the prep school atmosphere, he left friends behind. But those friends were still important to him, which is why the suicide pact through him for a loop. The other two didn'f find a way out of their life, and ended it. Francis felt some guilt for a while, but he had found a way out. He wasn't a bad kid, but he is reaching out for help by acting out in school. Thankfully, someone noticed and paid attention to him. Francis has a big heart and loves fiercely. I think that is why he made such a connection with Mary and  Cobb. He was part of their family.

[Joseph-Monning…]

What a lovely post!  As a teacher, I really responded to what you said.  In my small way, I have tried to lend a hand to a few students along the way.  And goodness knows, a number of teachers extended their hands to me.  Teachers get rough treatment in this culture.  But there are thousands and thousands of dedicated, hard working teachers who extend themselves every day.  My sister just retired as a 2nd grade teacher and you would have been amazed and heartened to hear how many people came back to wish her well and to tell her her teaching meant something to them.  Ironically, Francis is a character based loosely on a real life experience....how odd to hear his interaction with a teacher couldn't have happened!  So....thanks for your post.  I enjoyed reading it and second it wholeheartedly.  

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PB684 wrote:

I was just over at the "reviews" link and read a review written by someone who wasn't very impressed with this book. While I will not go into the many reasons why I disagree with him/her I just wanted to say that I completely disagree with the comments regarding Francis. He/she stated that "no student would ever be like that with a teacher". I can say from personal experience that is completely untrue! When I was in High School we had a history teacher who always went out of his way to help students both in and out of the classroom. Like Cobb, he was very much a "nature buff" and took many groups of students on hikes, canoeing, bird watching, etc. mostly on his days off. His classroom was always open to anyone with a free period who wanted to talk or just sit quietly. He inspired so many of us to love nature and to do for others. He and his wonderful wife had an "open door policy" at their home as well. Anyone who didn't have a place to go for Thanksgiving always had a standing invitation at their house and you always felt like you were part of their family...much like Mary and Cobb!

Eventhough I graduated many years ago I still saw these wonderful people at least once a year. Two summers ago I found out that he had been killed in an accident and I was devastated. I can't tell you how many of his former students attended his funeral. It was like a High School reunion with everyone crying and singing his many praises. Thank you to Joseph Monninger for creating a relationship like Cobb's and Francis'...yes it does exist in reality!

Paula

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[carol_fa]

We heard a bit of Francis' background earlier in the novel, but he's a character we get to know in these middle chapters, as he grows into Cobb and Mary's circle of family and friends. What, if anything, surprises you about Francis' character when we get to meet him?

 I really enjoyed Francis, him playing the picolo was a surprise to me, a good surprise. He is a troubled youth trying to find himself.

How would you describe him? How is he being disruptive at school? Do you see any of that behavior in his character while he is visiting with Cobb and Mary?

Francis is very intelligent, living in a world that he is not accustomed to. After his frist friends suicide he seemed angry when he would disrupt the class, anger is one of the stages that you go through after experiencing a death. Upon finding out that this was a suicide pact - it makes even more sense that he was acting out. I didn't see any disruptive behaviior while he was with Cobb and Mary, I sensed more sadness, and uncertainty from him. Maybe a book about Francis?

In what ways is St. Paul a place as out of the ordinary for Francis as the Allagash or Indonesia is for Cobb and Mary?

St. Paul seems more out of the ordinary for Francis because it is a private school. He seems very street smart, Francis didn't seem to come from money, so to be in that type of school (for Francis) seems strange. However Cobb and Mary seemed to be very comfortable in Indonesia as well the Allagash.

l

What is the nature of the "suicide pact" that Francis had been a part of at home? Why do you think his friends' carried through with it? What is the pull of it for Francis?

I think the "suicide pact" was a very real to Francis and his friends. When you are young, peer pressure is a very strong thing. I would have liked to have known more about Francis and his friends background. Suicide is a horrible thing for the people left behind. I can't imagine the pain that Francis was feeling, espicially if he was part of that pact.

[PiperMurphy]

It is sad that someone would think that this type of relationship with a teacher isn't realistic. It is.

I had some wonderful teachers, and I realize now that I should appreciate them more. Everyone's school experiences are different. If Francis hadn't found Mary and Cobb he would have felt the same way as the reviewer. I was worried about Francis when he was first introduced. I was afraid that his story wouldn't have a happy ending. Then he found a mentor in Cobb. He had someone who took an interest in him and cared about him. That's all it takes to make a difference in someone's life. Maybe this illustrates why mentors are needed.

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PB684 wrote:

I was just over at the "reviews" link and read a review written by someone who wasn't very impressed with this book. While I will not go into the many reasons why I disagree with him/her I just wanted to say that I completely disagree with the comments regarding Francis. He/she stated that "no student would ever be like that with a teacher". I can say from personal experience that is completely untrue! When I was in High School we had a history teacher who always went out of his way to help students both in and out of the classroom. Like Cobb, he was very much a "nature buff" and took many groups of students on hikes, canoeing, bird watching, etc. mostly on his days off. His classroom was always open to anyone with a free period who wanted to talk or just sit quietly. He inspired so many of us to love nature and to do for others. He and his wonderful wife had an "open door policy" at their home as well. Anyone who didn't have a place to go for Thanksgiving always had a standing invitation at their house and you always felt like you were part of their family...much like Mary and Cobb!

Eventhough I graduated many years ago I still saw these wonderful people at least once a year. Two summers ago I found out that he had been killed in an accident and I was devastated. I can't tell you how many of his former students attended his funeral. It was like a High School reunion with everyone crying and singing his many praises. Thank you to Joseph Monninger for creating a relationship like Cobb's and Francis'...yes it does exist in reality!

Paula

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[Sunltcloud]

Several of my friends are retired teachers and I have seen, first hand, the letters from young people they once mentored. One of these women, a 97-year old former grade school teacher to this day still has contact with some of her students. She has gone to weddings and baptisms and funerals of students who have thanked her repeatedly for her kind assistance, the extra-curricular activities she involved herself in, and the care she took in preparing them for life. Another friend, a former music teacher, is writing a memoir about the experiences she had with "difficult" students and how band and practice and patience contributed to their successes in life. And I myself have very fond memories of my Latin teacher who accompanied us to our yearly winter camp while I was in high school. We were giggling teenagers in love with our young, good-looking teacher who presented "De Bello Gallico" with enthusiasm and joy to us, and who protected us from our own flirty selves by always being appropriate, yet understanding.

There are many teachers who open their hearts and homes to students in need of special attention and I salute them. It is unfortunate that the reviewer you mention never had the experience of being mentored by a compassionate teacher; it is even more unfortunate that he/she lets this cloud a review of a book which gives us such promising, hopeful images of a teacher and student relationship.

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PB684 wrote:

I was just over at the "reviews" link and read a review written by someone who wasn't very impressed with this book. While I will not go into the many reasons why I disagree with him/her I just wanted to say that I completely disagree with the comments regarding Francis. He/she stated that "no student would ever be like that with a teacher". I can say from personal experience that is completely untrue! When I was in High School we had a history teacher who always went out of his way to help students both in and out of the classroom. Like Cobb, he was very much a "nature buff" and took many groups of students on hikes, canoeing, bird watching, etc. mostly on his days off. His classroom was always open to anyone with a free period who wanted to talk or just sit quietly. He inspired so many of us to love nature and to do for others. He and his wonderful wife had an "open door policy" at their home as well. Anyone who didn't have a place to go for Thanksgiving always had a standing invitation at their house and you always felt like you were part of their family...much like Mary and Cobb!

Eventhough I graduated many years ago I still saw these wonderful people at least once a year. Two summers ago I found out that he had been killed in an accident and I was devastated. I can't tell you how many of his former students attended his funeral. It was like a High School reunion with everyone crying and singing his many praises. Thank you to Joseph Monninger for creating a relationship like Cobb's and Francis'...yes it does exist in reality!

Paula

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[Deltadawn]

I agree with the many others -- Francis  is also my favorite supporting character in the book. I love the way Cobb and Mary reached out to him and how he responded to their overtures of friendship. It was wonderful to see the friendships evolve.

Francis was a gifted person who had been involved in very difficult situations - the most pressing is the suicide pact with his two friends from back home.

He did not feel that he fit in at the prep school-but his relationship with Mary and Cobb (and surely his mother's love for him) helped him to overcome his feelings of alienation and possible despair.

I appreciated the juxtaposition of the suicide pact between him and his friends with the "suicide pact" between Cobb and Mary - these were complete opposites - one was out of hopelessness and a disregard for life, and the other was born from the characters' reverance for the dignity of a human life. I've never really been able to wrap my mind & heart around "assisted suicide" though I understand the reasoning behind those who advocate for it. The way it is presented in this story makes me pause and think. Upon finishing Eternal on the Water, I have really reflected upon the book. It is a beautiful story - a wonderful selection for this group.

[JuneC]

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 Francis is a fish out of water at St Paul's because of his race, however I'll venture to guess that he would also be in that predicament at the Public HS, but for different reasons.  He doesn't appear to be a typical teenager.  In the his friendship with Mary and Cobb he can explore the "quirkier" side of his personality without concern of peer pressure.  He is totally accepted into this unusual group of people and is safe.

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[gl]

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Rachel-K wrote:

We heard a bit of Francis' background earlier in the novel, but he's a character we get to know in these middle chapters, as he grows into Cobb and Mary's circle of family and friends. What, if anything, surprises you about Francis' character when we get to meet him?

How would you describe him? How is he being disruptive at school? Do you see any of that behavior in his character while he is visiting with Cobb and Mary?

In what ways is St. Paul a place as out of the ordinary for Francis as the Allagash or Indonesia is for Cobb and Mary?

What is the nature of the "suicide pact" that Francis had been a part of at home? Why do you think his friends' carried through with it? What is the pull of it for Francis?

---

Francis is one of my favorite characters in the novel.  I was surprised by his love of houses and how quickly he took to Mary and Mary's mother. But that shared experience of the auction cemented their friendship.  I feel that because of the openness and naturalness of that friendship, Francis didn't "act out" in the way that he may have at St. Paul's.  When he was with Mary, he wasn't the rare African American scholarship student, in the way that he may have felt he was seen at prep school.  Mary saw him for himself and liked him for the same reasons that he liked himself.  Mary and Cobb were able to see beyond the occassionally prickly exterior to Francis and the pressures that he was under.

St. Paul's was much for of a place out of the ordinary for Francis than Indonesia or the Agalash is for Mary and Cobb.  Francis needs St. Paul's and all the success that it can bring him - he says it straight out. If he wants a high powered life, he must swim in this high powered school and come out with the successes.  Mary and Cobb's visits to the river and Indonesia are escapes for them, leisure time; they come in with some degree of privilege and know that they can leave anytime and that they hold a certain amount of control and power.  Francis doesn't have this same relationship towards St. Paul's.

Francis's friends didn't share Francis's options or opportunities.  As far as they were concerned, their lives weren't getting better. They saw very little to look forward to as they grew older, except aging.  For strong, young men such prospects must have been deeply disheartening - as is shown by their actions.  Francis is torn between his old friends and old life, coupled with a fear of failure to live up to the expectations of those around him, and a fear of success.  Success that St.Paul's and an Ivy League education and all that comes with it will mean that he will grow away from his deepest and closest friends; that Francis will likely be different from and on some level alienated him from his old community/family/friends. 

[momoftwinsMM]

I really liked Francis, who like Freddy, was different than one would expect by just looking at his outward appearance.

I grew up in an area where there were so many immigrant families, children feeling displaced, hanging out with those "like them" and alot of the time getting into trouble. At the same time, there were those who wanted better than what their parents had, and were at the top of their class, played in the orchestra (i.e. things that set them apart from the rest of their group). I appreciated Francis for being able to get along so well with Mary & Cobb, and his ability to understand and appreciate their free spiritedness and passions. Most would scoff at the thought of "antiquing."

The suicide pact was an interesting addition to the storyline. It is a terrible, but probably true facet of life for many underpriviledged teens/young adults. It is scary to think that your children can get involved in such a horrid situation. The peer pressure he felt must have been unbearable. I'm glad that he had the opportunity to be removed from the situation through the educational institution and with friends like Mary & Cobb. I don't think I could have handled Francis' death at his own hands in a book that I felt was already rife with emotion due to impending death.

[Zia01]

We heard a bit of Francis' background earlier in the novel, but he's a character we get to know in these middle chapters, as he grows into Cobb and Mary's circle of family and friends. What, if anything, surprises you about Francis' character when we get to meet him? He comes across as an apethic, uncaring kid, you know like most teenagers heh. In reality he's smart, caring, talented. It's not something we got to see at first hearing about him.

How would you describe him? How is he being disruptive at school? Do you see any of that behavior in his character while he is visiting with Cobb and Mary? School bores him. I guess that can make sense when you're smater than most of the kids. When he's with Mary and Cobb he's warm, not afraid is the best term I can think of, he's seems comfortable with them.