Anna_Louise wrote:The minor character that I loved was Myrtle. She was so wise beyond her age, thoughtful and provoking. I loved that she lived for each moment as did Mary. Maybe that was a trait of a Chumunga girl...living life to it's fullest and enjoying each, every moment and person who enters!
Anna Louise
Anna Louise I so agree with you on your point. Myrtle was most definitely wise beyond her years and in thinking that it reminds me of interviews I've seen with terminally ill children who know they're going to die and aren't afraid of death but only show concern for the people they are leaving.
Maybe my response here was a bit clumsy. (I think that's what a politician might use as excuse) What I referred to was the fact that people I know sometimes use the phrase: "It's God's will," when adversity strikes. This does not exclude taking responsibility for their own actions, but it does seem to more readily allow them to accept a fate that they had not wished for or planned, a fate they might not deserve. "God in his wisdom" had different plans for them. I substituted preordained for preplanned, perhaps too strong an expression, and yet, considering the power of a singular deity, not that farfetched.
I have to admit that I use the phrase "this was meant to be" occasionally, without a clear picture in my own mind where my reasoning originated, how the meaning progressed, or why I arrived at the statement at that particular time. I compare it with another statement I sometimes use: "When the pupil is ready the teacher will come." How do I know that I am ready now as compared to last week? How do I know it is not procrastination that kept me from doing then what I intend to do now? But I do feel that there have been various stations in my life that would not have been possible at another time. Which ties in with "this was meant to be" and might be nothing more than a vague admission of laziness. Or a convenient cliché?
To come back to Mary and Cobb - they were invented by the author who seems to be a romantic and an outdoors enthusiast.Were he a romance writer they might have spat at each other at first. Were he a mystery writer he would not have foretold about Mary's death. Were he a science fiction writer the crows might have attacked or one of them might have turned into a bear. His way of writing in memoir style (as if relating true events, complete with repetitive conversations) makes us believe they are real, and since there are no decisive ups and downs (as there are in fictional accounts) we are compelled to accept them as they are - from beginning to end rather straight forward and on a fast track to consummation of their relationship. It was meant to be!
Peppermill wrote:Of course, for a person of faith there is no question about the acceptance of circumstances as preordained.
Thank you for your thoughtful response, Sunlitcloud. However, I will take exception to the above: faith need not imply belief in circumstances as preordained. In actually, while many things ARE beyond our individual or even human control, I find it scary when we hide behind "fate" rather than facing and determining what is ours to hold in our responsibility. I find it difficult to conceive of a divinity that would so ordain us.
Yet I don't disagree at all with the comfort in sometimes saying there was "a reason for that" or "all things happen for a reason." I enjoyed your description of such as "magical thinking," which, along with myth and ritual and so much else, I think does bring "truths" to our lives that are not otherwise accessible, at least so readily or beautifully or comfortably -- or, sometimes, uncomfortably.
Sunltcloud wrote:
That's the big question, Peppermill, isn't it? I am reminded of people reading their horoscopes and fitting them into their own lives, even though they were written for a large number of readers. We see what we want to see, sort of like being the ones taking the placebo and believing that a situation is improving. Of course, for a person of faith there is no question about the acceptance of circumstances as preordained.I don't have an answer, but I must say that I think it is comforting to be able to believe that "all things happen for a reason." It helps to smooth the sharp edge of pain and increases the sweetness of joy. I am an atheist and therefore don't believe in the great provider of reason, but it is often a lonely road when one has to accept responsibility for all one's actions without the prospects of forgiveness and redemption. I build my own rather awkward protective devices and just as much as superstition can be justified by the "grouping of chance occurences" I justify my own "magical thinking" as creativity and cultural directional signal in an ever-growing maze of tiresome reality.
Peppermill wrote:All things happen for a reason.
Is that really "true", or are we as humans simply capable of always creating a "reason", a "meaning"?
Yes, I am perhaps in cynical mode as I type this. But, I do ask, without cynicism.
freelamp wrote:First impressions are not always correct. I love the off-beat personalities and having opposite skills for living in nature between Cobb and Mary. At the beginning, Mary wanted a kiss which I think was rather nice in an open, honest kind of way. Their meeting was "meant to be" in my opinion. All things happen for a reason.
Sunltcloud wrote (in part):
Maybe my response here was a bit clumsy. (I think that's what a politician might use as excuse ) What I referred to was the fact that people I know sometimes use the phrase: "It's God's will," when adversity strikes. This does not exclude taking responsibility for their own actions, but it does seem to more readily allow them to accept a fate that they had not wished for or planned, a fate they might not deserve. "God in his wisdom" had different plans for them. I substituted preordained for preplanned, perhaps too strong an expression, and yet, considering the power of a singular deity, not that farfetched.
And that is exactly a spot where their theology would diverge from mine! God is not someone I can blame, even though I believe God, in some sense or another, "walks along side us" in adversity, perhaps even, as the Footsteps In the Sand say, "carries us" -- acknowledging that what we experience may be the support of another person or the solace of our own hope and faith. Perhaps for some that faith is that what has happened was God's will -- who am I to say. (I just know that I shall never be able to say it about 9/11, regardless of the good and the awakening that may come from that day.)
But, probably enough of this for a discussion here. Thanks for playing with the ideas in so public a place.
Very well put, Peppermill. Thank you.
Peppermill wrote:Sunltcloud wrote (in part):
Maybe my response here was a bit clumsy. (I think that's what a politician might use as excuse
And that is exactly a spot where their theology would diverge from mine! God is not someone I can blame, even though I believe God, in some sense or another, "walks along side us" in adversity, perhaps even, as the Footsteps In the Sand say, "carries us" -- acknowledging that what we experience may be the support of another person or the solace of our own hope and faith. Perhaps for some that faith is that what has happened was God's will -- who am I to say. (I just know that I shall never be able to say it about 9/11, regardless of the good and the awakening that may come from that day.)
But, probably enough of this for a discussion here. Thanks for playing with the ideas in so public a place.
