The Great Outdoors

[Peppermill]

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MSaff wrote:

Hi Everyone,

  Here's a site for the Allagash River. 

http://www.allagashriver.com/

  I hope you enjoy it.

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Thanks for the post, Mike.

Here are a couple of maps:

Paddle Maine's Allagash River

"The river is less a single torrent than a series of interconnected lakes and sloughs, so go slow and quote Thoreau—every story about this river does."

If I remember correctly from our book, the Allagash is one of those rare U.S. rivers that flows north.

Allagash River

Lots of options for orienting oneself here, although most take a little dickering with zooming out or in.

[DSaff]

The setting is perfectly in line with the title. When I think of eternal, I think of forever, and these people want to be on the water. Whether they are physically there or not, it is a part of them. All of the characters thus far seem to be more at home outdoors. Yes, they have physical homes, but their hearts are in the natural world. The cabin wasn't modernized; it was still rustic.I can understand what these people want because I prefer a rural life to city dwelling. While I have never been to this river, I now want to go and visit. It must be spectacular!

The river and the natural world around it have proven to be living beings and major characters in the story. From the beauty and warmth of the sun, to the animals wandering around, to the cold temperatures turning breath to mist, the landscape is alive. The stories that Mary tells wouldn't be nearly as effective or spell-binding if they were told in a classroom. The river proves it can be placid and beautiful, but also challenging and dangerous. It teaches users to be careful in how they use it. Because of the descriptions our author gives us, I am there!

[ssizemore]

Thanks for the site!  I vacation in Maine in the summer and have seen glorious rivers in Maine (though not as far north as the Allagash).  The water is so beautiful and clear and the surrounding areas untouched.  It is truly a beautiful state.

[JoanieGranola]

What do you make of the fact that so far, we spend almost no time indoors? Even when Mary and Cobb make friends and visit a lodge for a small dinner party, they head back outside as soon as they possibly can. How does this play a part in their brand new relationship? Did it feel to you as if they were "playing house" while they visited? I think the entire story is being told based on Thoreau's view of simplicity. Cobb sets out on a journey to mimic Thoreau's travels down the Allagash, and Mary is on a journey to experience what's most important about life - to live in the moment. I think the fact that most of the story takes place outdoors is an effort to tell the reader that we, as a society, have lost a lot over the past 50 years or so. Everything in life is hurried and technology, while making life easier, is overtaking most of our lives. It's a lesson to step back and enjoy the Earth's natural beauty.

How is the natural world a character in the story? The natural world is a character in this story because it's become a pasttime. Fewer people are able to enjoy nature nowadays, and it's refreshing to remember what it's like to have the free time to enjoy it.

How does the river play a role in the novel so far? I believe the river plays a role similar to the circle of life - there are mild times when you can just coast along and there are other times when life gets to be too much to handle and you just have to get yourself through it so you can enjoy the quiet water again. It's what the Chungamunga girls' lives are like - all's well until they're diagnosed, they're OK until they have rough patches with medical treatments or side effects, and then they repeat the cycle.

[Krickett2432]

I love the fact that this romance and journey takes place outside.  It is unlike anything I have ever read.  I've done a little camping, so the imagery felt very real to me.  I can also identify with camping with a bunch of girls and doing silly things (Girl Scouts)--like planning the make-believe marriage ceremony.  But while they are make-believe, they feel very serious and very real to the girls.  

I believe the river (to me) was about their journey.  It could represent their romantic journey or their life journey.  Life is like the river, with various dangerous rapids that you must pass through.  You come through having learned valuable lessons, but not always unscathed. 

[JillinOH]

The fact that Mary and Cobb spent time in the lodge but went back outside to sleep, even in the cold rainy weather, was so surprising to me. I just assumed that they would share the lodge at night since they liked John and Annie so well and the weather was cold. Lodge camping is fine with me so I guess I can't relate. It does attest to their true love of nature.

They were playing house in the sense that John and Annie didn't realize they were not an established couple. Cobb and Mary were testing how their relationship would be perceived. When John and Annie found it surprising that they had just met the day before, it validated that their relationship was exceptional.

[jbg78]

The river (or water) is another character in the novel.  It plays a role in everyone's life. It flows from one character to the next.  Water is an element that is needed to exist. There is  also the water cycle (a circle) to consider.

[krb2g]

I was a Girl Scout in Elementary School, and occasionally I'll still go hiking or camping, but I've never undertaken a trip like the ones Mary and Cobb take. The outdoor stuff is a little distracting, insofar as I've spent a fair amount of time wondering about the practicalities of taking all your camping stuff down the river, but it's definitely a way to keep things clear and the story focused on their relationships to each other and to the natural world. 

If anyone's interested in Thoreau's trip that inspired Cobb's, this site offers Thoreau's essays on Maine (unpolished and unpublished before his death) as e-texts (possibly you could put them onto your Nooks; I have a Kindle and I'm planning on downloading them to it for reading that will be easier on my eyes). I haven't read the Maine essays yet, but I have read Walden and Walking. I would actually recommend Walking as opposed to Walden for getting into Thoreau's views on nature: first, it's shorter! and second, while in Walden certain things are inconsistent or not quite right (for example, during the period he lived on Walden Pond, Thoreau would go to Emerson's nearby house for dinner, and had his mother doing his laundry; and on an economic note, while it's easy for him to say pack up and live simply, not everyone has the economic means to do so--for example, free access to land to build on), Walking has fewer of those things that drive me crazy. 

EDIT TO ADD: This winter has been so cold recently, reading about them spending all that time outdoors (even though I know they're going during the autumn and the weather's generally pretty nice) has made me freezing!

[coffee_luvr]

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dhaupt wrote:

                            ***SPOILER****

I think the fact that the whole story was told mostly outdoors in indicative of the major players in the book loving the outdoors. Mary with her study of the corivus cultures and I also think she and Cobb just loved being out side.

I do think that mother nature is definitely a character in this book, by her displays of weather, by her creatures all around both human and animal and all of the natural things that meant so much to the other characters in the story, the tree where Cobb and Mary got married, The Allagash river itself, the bears and moose and all the other wildlife.

The river I think in this book represents life itself, sometimes calm, sometimes filled with rapids but always moving on wether the traveler on that river is ready for it or not.

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I like your explanation of the symbolism of the "river".  I agree. 

[LadyMin]

Mary is at home in the outdoors, so it seems natural that this is where most of the story would evolve. Cobb also enjoys nature and wants to be with Mary so it didn't surprise me that they headed back outside the lodge as soon as they could. Being in a new relationship it made sense that they would want to be alone.

Mary and Cobb are both drawn to the river and enjoy being near it. I see it as playing a central role because this is where the story began for us and this is where Mary's story ended.

[Sunltcloud]

Thanks for the link to the Thoreau site. Also, B&N has quite a few free ebooks dealing with Thoreau. I love the "extras" that come with reading in the First Look Group.

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krb2g wrote:

I was a Girl Scout in Elementary School, and occasionally I'll still go hiking or camping, but I've never undertaken a trip like the ones Mary and Cobb take. The outdoor stuff is a little distracting, insofar as I've spent a fair amount of time wondering about the practicalities of taking all your camping stuff down the river, but it's definitely a way to keep things clear and the story focused on their relationships to each other and to the natural world. 

If anyone's interested in Thoreau's trip that inspired Cobb's, this site offers Thoreau's essays on Maine (unpolished and unpublished before his death) as e-texts (possibly you could put them onto your Nooks; I have a Kindle and I'm planning on downloading them to it for reading that will be easier on my eyes). I haven't read the Maine essays yet, but I have read Walden and Walking. I would actually recommend Walking as opposed to Walden for getting into Thoreau's views on nature: first, it's shorter! and second, while in Walden certain things are inconsistent or not quite right (for example, during the period he lived on Walden Pond, Thoreau would go to Emerson's nearby house for dinner, and had his mother doing his laundry; and on an economic note, while it's easy for him to say pack up and live simply, not everyone has the economic means to do so--for example, free access to land to build on), Walking has fewer of those things that drive me crazy. 

EDIT TO ADD: This winter has been so cold recently, reading about them spending all that time outdoors (even though I know they're going during the autumn and the weather's generally pretty nice) has made me freezing!

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[StarShadow]

I so agree with LadyMin, It is the keystone of pretty much the whole background. Having a love of nature is a very special thing. My spouse and I are very fond of camping (cabin and tenting) and when we are out there, it is like a whole different world. So nice to hear about people loving nature so much the base there lives in and through it to the complete end.

[flbeachbum]

What do you make of the fact that so far, we spend almost no time indoors? I am a big fan of the outdoors,so this has been a nice component to the story.  I have enjoyed reading about the history and nature along this river.

Even when Mary and Cobb make friends and visit a lodge for a small dinner party, they head back outside as soon as they possibly can. How does this play a part in their brand new relationship? Did it feel to you as if they were "playing house" while they visited?As a few others have stated, I feel it gives them a better sense of what life will be like when they get off the river.

Are any readers familiar with this river in real life?I'd love to add it to my list!  My whole family is gearing up for a 4-day kayak trip here in Florida that I am unable to go on for various reasons.  Maybe I'll pass this book along to them when I'm finished in the hopes we can make this same trip!

How is the natural world a character in the story? How does the river play a role in the novel so far?  The weather tends to be an important element (both temperature and storms) which helps to bring the characters together.  The river offers peace and allows the two characters to simply get to know each other without the other distractions they normally would have.

[tweezle]

I think the natural world and the river represents life. Nothing is more alive than nature.  The river represents challenges we can either try to conquer or "walk around". I really don't think this novel would have worked well in any other setting. The link with nature is just so amazing.

[dhaupt]

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coffee_luvr wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

                            ***SPOILER****

I think the fact that the whole story was told mostly outdoors in indicative of the major players in the book loving the outdoors. Mary with her study of the corivus cultures and I also think she and Cobb just loved being out side.

I do think that mother nature is definitely a character in this book, by her displays of weather, by her creatures all around both human and animal and all of the natural things that meant so much to the other characters in the story, the tree where Cobb and Mary got married, The Allagash river itself, the bears and moose and all the other wildlife.

The river I think in this book represents life itself, sometimes calm, sometimes filled with rapids but always moving on wether the traveler on that river is ready for it or not.

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I like your explanation of the symbolism of the "river".  I agree. 

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Thanks 

[nfam]

The setting in the outdoors on a river made this story for me. The sensory details are outstanding. You could feel the eternal river contrasted with the ephemeral life of the main characters. I thought the out of doors was the only appropriate setting for these chapters. Without the river, the story would just be another sad love story.

[Coffeenut]

I love camping and hiking, so love the outdoors setting.

I havent even heard of this river, but now I'm interested in checking it out! My hubby love Kayaking, so you never know, maybe one day we'll try it.

[maxcat]

The river is the key to everything in the first 8 chapters. Everyone is introduced in those chapters and a lot is established as a base for the forthcoming chapters. The river flows endlessly and will always be there and this ties the Chungamunga girls into it as a fall ritual. They are eternal to the river as they always return to it every year.

[pen21]

I loved the outdoor setting. It put the characters in a different setting than a work or home environment. It helped me believe that they could fall in love so quickly and be so comfortable with each other. Because at times it seemed their relationship was moving faster than believable. But from my experience growing up camping with my family, that everyone is more open to meet and get to know you. After finishing this first section, their relationship in the outdoor setting has really set the tone for the book. I am looking forward to see how the author steers the book to the tragedy we are expecting from those first few pages of the book.

pen21

[mv5ocean]

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Rachel-K wrote:

What do you make of the fact that so far, we spend almost no time indoors? Even when Mary and Cobb make friends and visit a lodge for a small dinner party, they head back outside as soon as they possibly can. How does this play a part in their brand new relationship? Did it feel to you as if they were "playing house" while they visited?

I feel like the author specifically wanted us to appreciate nature, the value of the simple things in life and all that the world has to offer. Of course nature inevitably brought them together by fate in the first place. As far as "playing house" I felt they were just "that" comfortable with themselves and their sudden relationship.

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