Magic

[valorietucker]

I will admit that the magic threw me off.  Just when things seemed normal and every day, something strange would happen and remind me that there were things at work there not found in every day life.  What it sort of meant to be was instability.  It was always catching Meridia by surprise in some ways, but also providing comfort to her in others.  It was the source of the chaos in her life,  but also some of the reprieve that she found.

[dclement04]

thank you jholcomb that was a good explanation!

[PB684]

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Calendula wrote:

The idea that these occurances were "magic" is interesting to me. I'm curious to hear what the author has to say about this. 

When I first began reading the book - that is how I thought of them, but after sitting with the idea for a while, I began to think of them, rather, as symbolic. 

I can think of people who speak with bees, for example. They don't stop, until someone just can't stand it any longer, and they do something just to get peace.

Stairs can seem to go on forever, in real life.  

Magic would have been a powerful force in the story, but I think that symbolism serves an even larger purpose. Symbolism speaks to us on a different level. Symbolism makes the story something that we can relate to.

SunItCloud asked what is the difference between "real magic" and "mind tricks" - and I think my answer is: does it matter? What speaks to you? If it is too hard to suspend your disbelief in "real magic" can you relate to or believe in "mind tricks"? Or if "mind tricks" don't hold your interest - maybe magic does!

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Calendula,

I tend to agree with you on this one. I began the book thinking that the "magic" was the important message but as I read I am beginning to think the author is using magic as a metaphor. I do think you are correct, however, in saying that whatever angle speaks to you is what you should go with. I like that the author is forcing me to see things in more than one light.

Love your pen name by the way!

Paula

[Sassy398]

The mists is the thing that captured my interests along with meridia's friends reflection

 not showing in the mirror. The mists are some type of spirits from the world beyond.

 At one point, it helped Gabriel to leave  and return to the house.

[canterbear]

I agree, most of the magic does seem like tricks of the mind.
Or perhaps this is in an ancient time, where people did not understand certain things of nature and thus saw them as magic.

  Where myths and fairy tales take on a real element.

 Just like in any past culture, where lack of knowledge, becomes things to fear or appear mystical. 

[MSaff]

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rkubie wrote:

As you read, keep a list of the various magical elements you encounter in the book. What is the significance of each? How do they help tell the story, or deepen your understanding of the characters?

---

   Hi Everyone,

  Here are some of my thoughts on the Magic. 

  What I have found amazing at this point in the book is the magical stairs and mirrors.  I like the way the stairs seem to have a mind of their own and will extend or lengthen, in their attempt to slow Meridia down, possibly to make her think about what she is going to do, or shorten, when she needs to act quickly on a thought or action.  (These actions could be something she should be doing or something she should be looking for.) 

  The magic of the mirror, I believe is giving hints to Meridia.  These hints could be delving into the past or possibly a glimpse into the future,or both.

  The mists also are showing magical powers.  The Ivory(white mist) is there to either protect the house and its inhabitants, keeping outsiders away, and it is also giving Ravenna a place to vent away from Meridia.  Ravenna is certainly another character to watch.  Especially when it comes to Gabriel.  The yellow mist appears to have a magical way of hiding Gabriel when he leaves the house, and also keeps Meridia from following her father.  The blue mist again has the magical way of transporting Gabriel back to the house after his night out, also without being seen.

[Sunltcloud]

Calendula, you say, "does it matter?" when I ask the difference between mind tricks" and "real magic."  But you add "symbolism" to the mix and you wonder what the author has to say about the subject. I just asked a question of the poster, who made a differentiation between two questionable realities. I can suspend disbelief; I am willing to read a novel that offers no historical reference, no geographical reference, no psychological opinion, but gives me a plot structure that strongly affects my emotional sensitivities; I think that trying to reduce events to their common denominator, i.e. trick, magic, symbol, might allow me to appreciate them more fully.

According to Webster's College Dictionary:

Symbol: something that stands for something else, esp something concrete that represents or suggests another thing that cannot in itself be represented or visualized.

Magic: the art of persons who claim to be able to do things by the help of supernatural creatures or by their own knowledge of nature's secrets.

trick: a crafty procedure or practice meant to deceive or defraud 

Which leads me to think that symbolism would be a way for an author to magnify everyday events into universal concepts/principles. The use of magic would involve "others" who make events happen according to their schemes. Mind tricks would be the illusions attributed to a single character, unless some kind of artificial additive had affected the whole cast.  

So, I guess, the answer is: Yes. It matters.

---

fifenhorn wrote in part:

"I love the moving staircases, the mirrors, the mist, the bees...every little thing. But I think that a lot of these "magical" things are mind tricks that the characters experience, instead of reality or real magic."

---

Calendula wrote:

The idea that these occurances were "magic" is interesting to me. I'm curious to hear what the author has to say about this. 

When I first began reading the book - that is how I thought of them, but after sitting with the idea for a while, I began to think of them, rather, as symbolic. 

I can think of people who speak with bees, for example. They don't stop, until someone just can't stand it any longer, and they do something just to get peace.

Stairs can seem to go on forever, in real life.  

Magic would have been a powerful force in the story, but I think that symbolism serves an even larger purpose. Symbolism speaks to us on a different level. Symbolism makes the story something that we can relate to.

SunItCloud asked what is the difference between "real magic" and "mind tricks" - and I think my answer is: does it matter? What speaks to you? If it is too hard to suspend your disbelief in "real magic" can you relate to or believe in "mind tricks"? Or if "mind tricks" don't hold your interest - maybe magic does!

---

 

[deannafrances]

Although there seems to be an unworldly "magic" at work in the story, is it possible that the Magic is an illusion of Meridia?

She is just 16 when the book starts and her parents do not seem to be forthcoming and open with their thoughts. Perhaps they just never explained life.

Children left to their own devices,  often have imaginary playmates

and create scenarios to explain the world.

For example, true story,  I am 60 years old and I would lay in the back of the Studebaker when my father drove and I thought  we got in the car and the trees walked by!!! It didn't help that there was  popular song at the time called --Did you ever see a Dream Walking?

well I thought they sang-- Did you ever see a Tree Walking?  It all made sense to me!!!

Trips to carnivals with people who are barkers and street fair  and "freaks" were all very

scary and confusing to me as a child--all those smells and tents and promises of things beyond your imagination. Fat ladies--ladies with veils--don't ask questions, fortune tellers, 2 headed calves.

When I was growing up there was much more talk of the Boogey Man--if you didn't get home before dark--he would catch you.

If you stared too long in the mirror--the devil will appear.

 Seems in our town in Ohio there was a cursed place called Hangman's Hill --no one would walk over to get to the candy store.  

So it wasn't that long ago the world was a less scientific place. 

[Darbys_Closet]

Oh, I love this idea of jotting down the "magic"!  I wonder if what seems like "magic" now will be explained by the end of the book and by that time will it still be "magic"?

Darby

[Paul_Hochman]

Which begs the question, can magic be defined?

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Darbys_Closet wrote:

Oh, I love this idea of jotting down the "magic"!  I wonder if what seems like "magic" now will be explained by the end of the book and by that time will it still be "magic"?

Darby

---

[DSaff]

Good question, Paul. My response would be that magic is everywhere, in all of our discoveries. There is magic in the discoveries of friendship (i.e. Meridia and Hannah) and there is magic in the discovery of love (i.e. Meridia and Daniel), as well as magic in the house, in the market, and at the "religious" festival.

---

PaulH wrote:

Which begs the question, can magic be defined?

---

[PiperMurphy]

---

deannafrances wrote:

Although there seems to be an unworldly "magic" at work in the story, is it possible that the Magic is an illusion of Meridia?

She is just 16 when the book starts and her parents do not seem to be forthcoming and open with their thoughts. Perhaps they just never explained life.

Children left to their own devices,  often have imaginary playmates

and create scenarios to explain the world.

For example, true story,  I am 60 years old and I would lay in the back of the Studebaker when my father drove and I thought  we got in the car and the trees walked by!!! It didn't help that there was  popular song at the time called --Did you ever see a Dream Walking?

well I thought they sang-- Did you ever see a Tree Walking?  It all made sense to me!!!

Trips to carnivals with people who are barkers and street fair  and "freaks" were all very

scary and confusing to me as a child--all those smells and tents and promises of things beyond your imagination. Fat ladies--ladies with veils--don't ask questions, fortune tellers, 2 headed calves.

When I was growing up there was much more talk of the Boogey Man--if you didn't get home before dark--he would catch you.

If you stared too long in the mirror--the devil will appear.

 Seems in our town in Ohio there was a cursed place called Hangman's Hill --no one would walk over to get to the candy store.  

So it wasn't that long ago the world was a less scientific place. 

---

Deanna, I think you make a valid point. Meridia is left to entertain herself through her entire childhood. She would figure out explanations for what she sees based on what she knows. She really didn't have anyone to correct her assumptions, especially since she was invisible in the house.

There might be another explanation. The book isn't written from the perspective of our own familiar American culture. I think that might be why the "magic" is so magical.

[PiperMurphy]

---

DSaff wrote:
Good question, Paul. My response would be that magic is everywhere, in all of our discoveries. There is magic in the discoveries of friendship (i.e. Meridia and Hannah) and there is magic in the discovery of love (i.e. Meridia and Daniel), as well as magic in the house, in the market, and at the "religious" festival.

---

PaulH wrote:

Which begs the question, can magic be defined?

---

---

I don't think that a dictionary definition of magic is adequate. Magic is an illusion that will be interpreted differently by everyone who sees it. Magicians are illusionists. They trick us into thinking that they have done the impossible. I think that true magic is something that we determine for ourselves, and we base that determination on our own knowledge, perspectives, and experiences.

[Rachel-K]

I love the idea that we are being taken into a world where a child's perpective is reality. Certainly, in a psychological sense, our childhood experiences can cast a "spell" over our adult life.

---

deannafrances wrote:

Although there seems to be an unworldly "magic" at work in the story, is it possible that the Magic is an illusion of Meridia?

She is just 16 when the book starts and her parents do not seem to be forthcoming and open with their thoughts. Perhaps they just never explained life.

Children left to their own devices,  often have imaginary playmates

and create scenarios to explain the world.

For example, true story,  I am 60 years old and I would lay in the back of the Studebaker when my father drove and I thought  we got in the car and the trees walked by!!! It didn't help that there was  popular song at the time called --Did you ever see a Dream Walking?

well I thought they sang-- Did you ever see a Tree Walking?  It all made sense to me!!!

Trips to carnivals with people who are barkers and street fair  and "freaks" were all very

scary and confusing to me as a child--all those smells and tents and promises of things beyond your imagination. Fat ladies--ladies with veils--don't ask questions, fortune tellers, 2 headed calves.

When I was growing up there was much more talk of the Boogey Man--if you didn't get home before dark--he would catch you.

If you stared too long in the mirror--the devil will appear.

 Seems in our town in Ohio there was a cursed place called Hangman's Hill --no one would walk over to get to the candy store.  

So it wasn't that long ago the world was a less scientific place. 

---

[Zeal]

Wow!  Everyone has made some amazing observations about the magic in the novel! 

The staircase's odd behavior was introduced early in the chapters.  I believe this stands for the unpredictable nature surrounding Meridia's life.  She has not been cultured or offered experiences outside of the house.  She has not communicated with anyone other than her mother, father, and nurse...who are all lacking in communication skills.  She has been made to wear extra clothes outside and has been sheltered her entire life.  As Meridia begins to experience new things, she is very unsure as to how to react to these experiences.  Thus, comes the mirror into play.

The mirror offers her glimpses or hints into a world or people that are unfamiliar to Meridia.  I agree with a previous post that is symbolizes things to come or hints into Meridia's past.  It greatly affects Meridia's emotions and even her physical feelings.

The mists were something that fascinated me in the beginning.  I looked for an even deeper meaning in the color of the mists, but have not been satisfied with my findings. This is a website that offers more information behind the meaning of colors.  I found the negative meanings interesting, and felt that some parts of them would apply to Merida's situation with Gabriel.  See what you think... http://www.myuniversalfacts.com/2005/12/meaning-of-colors-color-symbolism.html

[hookedonbooks09]

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PiperMurphy wrote:

---

deannafrances wrote:

Although there seems to be an unworldly "magic" at work in the story, is it possible that the Magic is an illusion of Meridia?

She is just 16 when the book starts and her parents do not seem to be forthcoming and open with their thoughts. Perhaps they just never explained life.

Children left to their own devices,  often have imaginary playmates

and create scenarios to explain the world.

For example, true story,  I am 60 years old and I would lay in the back of the Studebaker when my father drove and I thought  we got in the car and the trees walked by!!! It didn't help that there was  popular song at the time called --Did you ever see a Dream Walking?

well I thought they sang-- Did you ever see a Tree Walking?  It all made sense to me!!!

Trips to carnivals with people who are barkers and street fair  and "freaks" were all very

scary and confusing to me as a child--all those smells and tents and promises of things beyond your imagination. Fat ladies--ladies with veils--don't ask questions, fortune tellers, 2 headed calves.

When I was growing up there was much more talk of the Boogey Man--if you didn't get home before dark--he would catch you.

If you stared too long in the mirror--the devil will appear.

 Seems in our town in Ohio there was a cursed place called Hangman's Hill --no one would walk over to get to the candy store.  

So it wasn't that long ago the world was a less scientific place. 

---

Deanna, I think you make a valid point. Meridia is left to entertain herself through her entire childhood. She would figure out explanations for what she sees based on what she knows. She really didn't have anyone to correct her assumptions, especially since she was invisible in the house.

There might be another explanation. The book isn't written from the perspective of our own familiar American culture. I think that might be why the "magic" is so magical.

---

Piper, first of all--- I LOVE meerkats!  They make me laugh, just to look at their serious little faces.  Okay, back to the question at hand...

This discussion about the magic has made me think of several things---one is that magic is very objective.  My magic isn't someone else's.  And I believe magic is a very emotion-based thing.  So the idea that the magic in the book may be perceived  rather than actual is a valid point.  And it seems to change and alter itself as the characters change and grow.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that magic is a very elusive, flowing thing, different for all of us, based on the emotions we bring to it.

--Barb

[PiperMurphy]

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hookedonbooks09 wrote:

---

PiperMurphy wrote:

---

deannafrances wrote:

Although there seems to be an unworldly "magic" at work in the story, is it possible that the Magic is an illusion of Meridia?

She is just 16 when the book starts and her parents do not seem to be forthcoming and open with their thoughts. Perhaps they just never explained life.

Children left to their own devices,  often have imaginary playmates

and create scenarios to explain the world.

For example, true story,  I am 60 years old and I would lay in the back of the Studebaker when my father drove and I thought  we got in the car and the trees walked by!!! It didn't help that there was  popular song at the time called --Did you ever see a Dream Walking?

well I thought they sang-- Did you ever see a Tree Walking?  It all made sense to me!!!

Trips to carnivals with people who are barkers and street fair  and "freaks" were all very

scary and confusing to me as a child--all those smells and tents and promises of things beyond your imagination. Fat ladies--ladies with veils--don't ask questions, fortune tellers, 2 headed calves.

When I was growing up there was much more talk of the Boogey Man--if you didn't get home before dark--he would catch you.

If you stared too long in the mirror--the devil will appear.

 Seems in our town in Ohio there was a cursed place called Hangman's Hill --no one would walk over to get to the candy store.  

So it wasn't that long ago the world was a less scientific place. 

---

Deanna, I think you make a valid point. Meridia is left to entertain herself through her entire childhood. She would figure out explanations for what she sees based on what she knows. She really didn't have anyone to correct her assumptions, especially since she was invisible in the house.

There might be another explanation. The book isn't written from the perspective of our own familiar American culture. I think that might be why the "magic" is so magical.

---

Piper, first of all--- I LOVE meerkats!  They make me laugh, just to look at their serious little faces.  Okay, back to the question at hand...

This discussion about the magic has made me think of several things---one is that magic is very objective.  My magic isn't someone else's.  And I believe magic is a very emotion-based thing.  So the idea that the magic in the book may be perceived  rather than actual is a valid point.  And it seems to change and alter itself as the characters change and grow.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that magic is a very elusive, flowing thing, different for all of us, based on the emotions we bring to it.

--Barb

---

Thanks, Barb, I go to the zoo just to see the meerkats.

I love the fact that we can make the magic in the book to be anything that we want. I realize that it is a metaphor and an illusion, but in the movie in my mind, I see these things really happening. The bees flying out of Eva's mouth is hysterical, but more on that next week.

[Thayer]

What confuses me is that the festival is termed (p. 42) "Festival of the Spirits."  To me, there is a huge difference in the magical and the spiritual. Or is the line really that fine?

Reading this story is somewhat like watching a magician perform...you get so intent on perceiving the illusion that sometimes you forget to enjoy the trick.

[Shadowwolf36]

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Thayer wrote:

What confuses me is that the festival is termed (p. 42) "Festival of the Spirits."  To me, there is a huge difference in the magical and the spiritual. Or is the line really that fine?

Reading this story is somewhat like watching a magician perform...you get so intent on perceiving the illusion that sometimes you forget to enjoy the trick.

---

I find it to be a very fine line.....there is magic in nearly living thing and for many it seems spiritual as well....I believe there is a huge difference between magic and religion....you don't need to be religious to be spiritual and spirituality comes to all of us differently through different modalities...I may find my spirituality through the earth, plants, birds, bees and butterflies and all of these can be magical as well...they can be used in true magic or say the "birth" of a butterfly can be magical.  Others may find their spirituality only in church....but I don't believe magic and spirit to be considered mutually exclusive.

[deannafrances]

I find it to be interesting that Magic has so many meanings---what is called Magic that Magicians perform are really illusions and trickery.

What many people say are Magical moments such as birth are actually nature at

what we as people believe to be moments of great importance.

When someone has a wedding or goes to prom and spends thousands for a beautiful dress,  the candlelit and flowery reception--we say it is Magical and yet it is really well  planned and theatrical.

There may be some really to us magical moments such as be able to witness an eclipse

or a butterfly landing on your finger--but they are really just rare nature events.

Loving your husband and reading to your children feel magical but it is because they bring joy.

For years and years, anything the culture did not understand was attributed to magic--often black.

I think this book so far is thought provoking ---what is magic???????? 

Magic is the eye of the beholder!!!!