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Deltadawn
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Malin and Permony

Such great insights, again! :smileyvery-happy:

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Em18966
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎04-08-2009

Re: Malin and Permony

What are the characters of each of the girls like?

 

Permony is a peacemaker.  She wants nothing more than to avoid discord, and for those around her to be happy; even at the expense of her personal happiness.  Malin is no so much mean-spirited as she is an attention-whore.  She wants to be the center of attention at all times, regardless of what she has to do.  She also, instinctively, aligns herself with the most powerful and influential people around her.  That is why she is so intent on being in Eva's good graces -- she knows that Eva is the ruler of her home and those who live in it.

 

Why would Eva treat Permony the way she does? Is there a reason for her favoritism?

 

She sees Permony as weak and maleable.  She sees her as too much like her father, and also as competition for her husband's affection. 

 

Why doesn't Elias stand up for Permony, and why doesn't Daniel?

 

Because Eva is the boss.  That is the bottom line: no one in her home is willing to risk her wrath by challenging her behavior.

 

Do your feelings for Malin change as much as Meridia's do?

 

Yes. Malin is simply doing what she can get away with.  She is sick of being under her mother's thumb, too.  You can't really blame a child for behaving the way they are conditioned to behave.

 

What does Malin want or need from Meridia? What (if anything) does Permony want or need from Meridia?

 

Malin want's someone to stand up to her mother so that she doesn't have to do it herself.  I think she just wants to see how her mother will react to direct defiance.  Permony just wants a friend.

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dleigh
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎05-05-2009

Re: Malin and Permony

Malin & Permony - when they are first introduced I was drawn to the parallel of another fairy tale - CInderella - where there is one daughter (the "ugly stepsister/Malin) who was treated well by the mother and given beautiful gifts and touted as the favorite while Permony (the Cinderella) was truly a beautiful and loving child who received no affection at all from the mother because she is the father's favorite. Yet as the story develops their characters become so much more complex.

 

 

After looking over other posts, I agree with the thought that maybe Maliln sees a champion in Meridia - someone that can stop Eva's bees or at least recognize the truth of what Eva is. Permony however is just a shell of a person when it comes to her mother - she takes whatever is dished out in the hopes that one day it will all stop. I think Permony views Meridia as her champion too because Meridia offers Permony the attention and affection she so desperately longs for.

DH
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PiperMurphy
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Re: Malin and Permony

What if Eva is mean to Permony because she is the child that is most like the person that Eva used to be? There is evidence that Eva was once a loving person before something changed her. Maybe she is jealous of Permony because for whatever reason she can't be that person anymore.
"When I have a little money, I buy books; and if I have any left, I buy food and clothes."
~Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus~
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kiakar
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Re: Malin and Permony

You know I often wondered about Eva, how she got to be so evil, maybe she was treated like Palin or Permony by her parents and that is what screwed her up so bad.  I think both girls crave positive attention from both parents but it seems all they seem to have is negative when any at all is shown them.
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LISA-BRYAN
Posts: 88
Registered: ‎12-16-2008

Re: Malin and Permony

1) What are the characters of each of the girls like?

 

Permony is weak and lonely and tries to avoid all conflict -- especially any with her mother and sister.  She lives her life through books which are her only escape and her mother takes her books away as a way of hurting Permony time and time again.

 

Malin appears stronger than Permony but really is just as weak inside but doesn't show it because she doesn't want the wrath of mommy on her.  Eva everyday is punishing Permony and Malin takes advantage of this... but who can blame her -- she is just a kid and is a product of her environment.

 

2) Why would Eva treat Permony the way she does? Is there a reason for her favoritism?

 

Malin is Eva's favorite because Eva was in labor so much longer with Permony...

 

3) Why doesn't Elias stand up for Permony, and why doesn't Daniel?

 

Elias and Daniel do not stand up for Permony because neither wants the wrath of mommy to come down on him -- as the old saying goes -- "If mama's not happy -- nobody's happy"

 

4) Do your feelings for Malin change as much as Meridia's do?

 

Malin begins to watch Meridia as Meridia becomes bolder and bolder and begins to assert herself to Eva -- this behavior impresses Malin because it is something that Malin wishes she could do as well but she is weak and scared of her mother's wrath.

 

5) What does Malin want or need from Meridia? What (if anything) does Permony want or need from Meridia?

 

As Malin sees Meridia become stronger -- it gives Malin what she needs to become independent -- it is that sign that Wow! mother can be defeated and I can do it just like Meridia.

 

Permony needs and wants support and attention from Meridia.  Telling her stories... saving her books from Eva's wrath... Permony really just needs someone to love her.

 

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Carmenere_lady
Posts: 529
Registered: ‎11-05-2006

Re: Malin

About Malin's name:  The name Malin reminded me of the Spanish word for bad - Mal.  Her behavior at the beginning of the story seemed to fit.

Lynda

"I think of literature.....as a vast country to the far borders of which I am journeying but will never reach."
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love2readSZ
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Registered: ‎03-18-2009
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Re: Malin and Permony


PiperMurphy wrote:
What if Eva is mean to Permony because she is the child that is most like the person that Eva used to be? There is evidence that Eva was once a loving person before something changed her. Maybe she is jealous of Permony because for whatever reason she can't be that person anymore.

Interesting thought.  Wonder if the book will hold out your theory.  Wonder what made her turn from being that person?

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EvaAmlia
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎03-31-2009

Re: Malin and Permony

On the surface Malin appears strong and Permony weak. Like all of the other characters in this story, there is more than what we see on the surface.

 

Permony is quite. She is constantly taunted by both her mother and her sister. I don't believe that her lack of an angry response should be taken as a weakness. Her lack of anger/response shows self control. Someone with a great deal of self control is quite the opposite of weak.

 

Malin is mean. Meanness is often a sign of personal weakness and insecurity. We are always taught the the bully on the playground only makes fun of others because he is insecure with himself/herself. Perhaps this is an example of that same old story. Maybe Malin constantly badgers Permony because she is insecure about her place within her family.

 

I don't really see a reason as to why Daniel and Elias don't ever defend Permony. Maybe they are scared of Eva or Malin's reponse would be. The are both passive and weak. It is much easier to try and repair Malin's damage than it would be to stand up to her and in turn stand up to Eva.

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nicole21WA
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Re: Malin and Permony

***Spoiler Alert--I'm on chapter 35***

 

Malin is such a different woman than the girl she once was.  She started changing (or perhaps simply revealing who she really was) as a teen when she urged Meridia to see how manipulative Eva was; now as a woman grieving her lost child, she isn't remotely like the child Malin I despised.  It's unfortunate that although Malin can recognize that Eva lies about Meridia, she doesn't see the lies Eva tells to her and Permony about their relationship.  Malin and Permony could take down their mother if she didn't constantly make each jealous of the other.  It sounds like Malin is going to try to ally herself with Meridia now though, which makes me wonder what the eldest daughter has in store for Eva.

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Tarri
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Re: Malin and Permony

I thought as I read the first part of the book that Malin acted the way she did was because she was jealous of Permony's relationship with Elias.  Doesn't every little girl want to be their father's favorite.  Then Malin told Meridia about Eva and I felt even more strongly that Malin doesn't approve of her mother. 
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nfam
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Re: Malin and Permony

Permony is a victim. She's sensitive. Like many other bullies, Eva picks the weakest member to torture. I like Permony's character. You can't help feeling sad for her.

 

Eva like Malin because she can't control her. Again this is the typical behavior of a bully. She tries to get on the good side of the person she can't control and strikes out at the weak member.

 

Elias, being another victim, sympathizes with Permony. As I see it, Daniel tries to avoid the complexity of his family. He is the easy going brother who really isn't there. When he grows up, he may have to take more responsibility in his family.

 

Malin starts to like Meridia when she realizes that Meridia is another strong woman, strong enough to stand up to Eva. Perhaps like is the wrong word. It's more like respecting someone in whom she sees the same qualities.

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vivico1
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Re: Malin and Permony

[ Edited ]

I don't know. Permony is a victim of abuse alright but I don't see her as the weakest person. I think she has an inner strength that at least keeps her going at this young age but it will blossom when she gets older into something more.

 

Elias to me, is a victim but he is also an adult and sometimes we chose to be victims, so I do feel for him, some, but on the other hand....!

 

There is a famous quote, if i can get it right... "You can either serve as a good example or a horrible warning!" I think Elias fits into the latter part, and in a sense, that is befitting his name, tho his inner strength, or lack of, does not.

 


nfam wrote:

Permony is a victim. She's sensitive. Like many other bullies, Eva picks the weakest member to torture. I like Permony's character. You can't help feeling sad for her.

 

Eva like Malin because she can't control her. Again this is the typical behavior of a bully. She tries to get on the good side of the person she can't control and strikes out at the weak member.

 

Elias, being another victim, sympathizes with Permony. As I see it, Daniel tries to avoid the complexity of his family. He is the easy going brother who really isn't there. When he grows up, he may have to take more responsibility in his family.

 

Malin starts to like Meridia when she realizes that Meridia is another strong woman, strong enough to stand up to Eva. Perhaps like is the wrong word. It's more like respecting someone in whom she sees the same qualities.


 

 

Message Edited by vivico1 on 06-14-2009 09:16 AM
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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debbook
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Re: Malin and Permony

I am glad to see the growth that occurs for Malin, once out of her  mother's clutches, she really matured. Of course I feel terrible for her loss, she didn't deserve that. I'm glad she became close with her sister. Eva was always playing them off each other, horrible woman
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jholcomb
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Re: Malin and Permony

I think there's more to the way Eva treats her daughters than that she prefers Malin. The back of the book says something about "sisters raised to hate each other," and I think that is part of Eva's goal. She wants to control not only her own relationships with the people around her, but their relationships with each other. By favoring Malin, she ensures that the girls do not develop a sisterly bond that would exclude Eva. Malin's growth comes in part from realizing that her mother was manipulating her by favoring her.
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lisally
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Re: Malin and Permony

I'm only up to chapter 11, but here is my perception of Daniel's sisters:

 

I think Malin is definitely spoiled; I see Eva as possibly wanting to live vicariously through her daughter and make Malin into everything she never was.  Thus, Eva finds no fault with Malin, and Malin therefore is able to be spiteful and rude without consequence.

 

Meridia remarks that Permony resembles her mother more than Malin.  I think Eva treats Permony with disdain because Eva sees all her own faults in Permony, to an exaggerated degree.  Malin is what Eva wants to be, and Permony is what Eva dislikes about herself.

 

I sympathized more with Permony myself, perhaps because I was also a shy bookworm and a bit of crybaby growing up.  I also wanted desperately to please my parents, who always seemed to view  my older sister as the perfect one, whereas I was always the perpetual screw-up.

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Zeal
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Re: Malin and Permony

In the beginning, I did not like Malin, but my feelings changed drastically when she started to show signs of admiration for Meridia.  Until Meridia came into Malin's life and demonstrated the strength to stand up to Eva, Malin was at a loss as how to stand up to her mother.  Some may think that Malin did not need to stand up to Eva because Malin had everything she could possibly want.  However, I feel as if Malin is suffering greatly (hence the nasty personality and treatment of Permony).  Malin cannot lash out at Eva, so she selects Permony.  Malin does not really want all of the material things that her mother gives her, but craves "real" love instead.  I think she is aware of Elias's love for Permony and wishes that she had the same type of treatment and relationship with at least one of her parents. 

 

I liked Permony right from the beginning and did feel sorry for her, but I also view Permony as incredibly strong.  She continues to have a pleasant personality despite the treatment she receives from her mother.  Permony savors the love she receives from Elias and since it is "real" love, she feels valued and loved by her father.  This is so much more valuable than the material possessions her sister receives.  Permony also receives this love from Meridia and thus forms an immediate bond with her.  Malin has no idea how to love or even accept love, so she again lashes out at Meridia (just as she does with Permony).  This is Malin's way of releasing her frustration.  It is my hope that Malin will find the love that she deserves which in turn will allow her to love. 

"I learned to dream through reading, learned to create dreams through writing, and learned to develop dreamers through teaching. I shall always be a dreamer."
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kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006

Re: Malin and Permony


Zeal wrote:

In the beginning, I did not like Malin, but my feelings changed drastically when she started to show signs of admiration for Meridia.  Until Meridia came into Malin's life and demonstrated the strength to stand up to Eva, Malin was at a loss as how to stand up to her mother.  Some may think that Malin did not need to stand up to Eva because Malin had everything she could possibly want.  However, I feel as if Malin is suffering greatly (hence the nasty personality and treatment of Permony).  Malin cannot lash out at Eva, so she selects Permony.  Malin does not really want all of the material things that her mother gives her, but craves "real" love instead.  I think she is aware of Elias's love for Permony and wishes that she had the same type of treatment and relationship with at least one of her parents. 

 

I liked Permony right from the beginning and did feel sorry for her, but I also view Permony as incredibly strong.  She continues to have a pleasant personality despite the treatment she receives from her mother.  Permony savors the love she receives from Elias and since it is "real" love, she feels valued and loved by her father.  This is so much more valuable than the material possessions her sister receives.  Permony also receives this love from Meridia and thus forms an immediate bond with her.  Malin has no idea how to love or even accept love, so she again lashes out at Meridia (just as she does with Permony).  This is Malin's way of releasing her frustration.  It is my hope that Malin will find the love that she deserves which in turn will allow her to love. 


 

I know the question from Rachel was how much of a change in some of the characters through the book and I have to say that Malin gets the prize for the biggest change in a character that I remember. She started out a complete brat  and then became a great human being caring about others feelings.
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brezi
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Re: Malin and Permony

Great insights! I agree that Malin made the biggest personality change by the end of the book. In the beginning, she was one of my least favorite characters, but gradually, she became one of my favorites (after she started looking up to Meridia). Meridia had a great effect on both Malin and Permony's lives and I think she was destined to come into their family and create waves with the status quo set by Eva.
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luvmykiddos
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Registered: ‎09-17-2008
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Re: Malin and Permony


emmagrace wrote:

Poor Permony is a lonely, quiet girl most likely because she is constantly belittled by her mother.

 

Malin is rude and obnoxious because she is spoiled and doted on by her mother.

 

I think that Eva is mean to Permony because her husband is very fond of Permony.

 

Elias and Daniel do not stand up for Permony because they are afraid of Eva. She has her "bees" constantly in their faces.

 

The girls both need some form of real love and warmth from Meridia. She is the only one who stands up to their mother and sees her for what she truly is.


I have to agree here..... the dynamics between Elias and Eva dictates the dynamics between each parent and each daughter. I think there are qualities that each daughter poses and embrace and because of the tension w/in the relationship of the adults each parent is drawn away from those qualities they despise that they see in their child. Therefore creating a bond with one or the other daughter. I mean....... that old saying "birds of a feather flock together".... they have here.