Time

[LISA-BRYAN]

Thanks for reminding me of the other births ...Those being Permony's birth and Patina's labor.... I guess I forgot to mention those in my post.

There have been 4 births in the book, and all 4 have been very painful ones. The first one was Ravenna giving birth to Meridia. When Meridia came out, she was not breathing, and they were going to claim her dead until Ravenna made her breathe again. Ravenna was put through a great scare. The second one was the story that Meridia heard about Eva. When Eva was giving birth to her second daughter, Permony, she was in labor for 80 hours and would not stop bleeding. It was torture for her. The third birth was when Meridia found out that Patina had given birth to a daughter that died, which hurt Patina very deeply. The fourth birth was when Meridia gave birth to her son Noah. The baby did not want to come out and she went through extreme pain not only with the birthing process, but also with all the bees that were attacking her. There had not been one smooth and pain free birth in this book so far

[Fozzie]

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rkubie wrote:

What do the role do the scents of Verbena and of Roses have in the story? It there a scent you recognize and associate with a loved one or a family member?

Why has Hannah appeared again, and why has she disappeared? Do you believe in her?

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I felt like the first section of reading was very mysterious and was "setting up" the story.  By the time this section of reading had ended, I was firmly rooted in the story and felt like things weren't so mysterious after all, in a good way.

I find it fascinating the way the author makes reference to people by ways other than their physical presence, like mist, bees, and scents.  My husband's grandmother has a definite scent --- her perfume --- and we have both commented on it to each other.  A couple of times, her scent has been in the room without her...

I was reviewing the sections of reading, and found out that Hannah may be more mysterious than I thought.  I had no doubt that she was real and didn't question why she "disappeared," that is until I reread this on page 39:

Hannah whooped and the two girls clasped each other.  It was then that Meridia realized, looking one more into the mirror, that she could not see her friend's reflection.  Inside the mirror the hairdresser was frowning and Meridia was embracing nothing but air.

Even after rediscovering that passage, I still think she is real.

[PinkBaby]

i have wondered that myself what time period it is as i have read through the book. also where does it take place is it in a  different country or is it in the usa.but aside from that i am liking the book more and more. it is certainly magical.

[PinkBaby]

i know at first i didnt like ravenna or gabriel because of the way they treated merida. when she was at home growing up. but when merida and daniel  were newly married and daniel and his family  said terrible things about merida. they stood up for their daughter. but eva i dont think i will ever like. also it seems to me that daniel is kinda of mamas boy.

[CAG]

I have to agree. I have thought from the beginning this was such an interesting story and as I have gotten further into the book, decided I really like it.

[gosox]

I am also curious about the bees in the story and their connection to Eva. Did anyone else see the news about a plane in Danvers Mass that had over 10,000 bees land on its wing before take-off? They attributed the phenomenon to the fact that the bees were following the queen bee. Could that be the same with Eva? Is she a Queen Bee? I keep thinking her name reminds me of Eve, as in the Garden of Eve, and with her connection to the roses, it seems to fit.

[DSaff]

I just read the article. That's a lot of bees!

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gosox wrote:

I am also curious about the bees in the story and their connection to Eva. Did anyone else see the news about a plane in Danvers Mass that had over 10,000 bees land on its wing before take-off? They attributed the phenomenon to the fact that the bees were following the queen bee. Could that be the same with Eva? Is she a Queen Bee? I keep thinking her name reminds me of Eve, as in the Garden of Eve, and with her connection to the roses, it seems to fit.

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[emmagrace]

Since I can not post everyone's thoughts on these chapters in this post, I just wanted to say that I enjoy reading your posts and you have all made very nice observations! Nice job!!

I am enjoying the second half of this book more than the first half.

Message Edited by emmagrace on 06-09-2009 08:11 PM

[julyso]

I am really enjoying this book now, I am totally into it! The beginning just didn't grab & I think it is because the middle is more real, not so much fantasy.  I hate to stop reading now

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ImBookingIt wrote:

First, I wanted to say I didn't enjoy this section as much as the first, I think because it felt a little too real to me.   The bad things in the first section were shrouded and softened by magic, which diverted me.

[bookloverjb85]

Thanks for pointing out that both Verbena and Roses are thorny.  I didn't even think of that, but now that you mention it, it makes sense that these are the smells for each mother.

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PinkPanther wrote:

 Both Verbena's and Roses are thorny flowers. They have beautiful flowers, but can be very painful at the same time. I know that Verbena is the perfect scent for Ravenna because she is a very quietbeautiful woman with a good heart, but she can also stab you within the blink of an eye if you cross her path in any wrong way. I know my mother by her perfume. She always wears Donna Karan Cashmere Mist. Whenever I smell that I think of her, no matter where I am.

[Lil_Irish_Lass]

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biljounc63 wrote:

I'm finding that the middle of the book is much less magical than the first part was with the moving staircase and the different colored mist that played havoc of all who tried to approach the house. The latest section I am finding more a normal though dysfunctional household with a great deal of stress brought on by overbearing Eva. they is some magical and aspect but they seem to be taking a backseat compared to the early chapters.

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I think part of this is because we have been removed from both Meridia and Daniel's childhood homes. A lot of the magic from the first 9 chapter surround both of those houses and now that we have a new setting the magic hasn't followed... unless Ravenna or Eva drop in for a visit.

The powerful magic seems to be tied with Ravenna and Eva, it follows them where ever they go. And in the case of Noah's birth is both cause and salvation. I didn't take Ravenna finally realizing the bees were attacking Meridia and her fighting them off as good vs.. evil but more proof that a mother's love of her own child is stronger and more powerful than any other power. As soon as Ravenna was able to see the cause of Meridia's pain she took care of it quickly and effectively.

It's a cautionary note that Eva should truly take with her (not that she cares); that she should not try and mess with the cub if she's not prepared to face momma bear - be it Meridia & Ravenna or Noah & Meridia.

[BDonnelly]

The Orchard street family was almost exactly what I expected.  Malin has taken a turn I didn't expect and I don't know if she will turn out be on Meridia's side or not.  But, clearly she set in motion a change for the good.  Eva was exactly as I expected.  I did not trust her from the beginning. 

I like the Willow Street home.  Willows are flexible and bend with grace to great winds and storms - I am expecting some big winds in the next quarter of the book.

The scents are an interesting touch and I like that the scent of the roses was used to drown out the drone of the bees.  How does an olfactory sense drown out a visual and auditory one?  Another bit of magic!

[LISA-BRYAN]

Thanks for sharing about the article... I looked it up and was amazed. I teach high school biology and have heard of some strange insect activities but never something like this.  I plan on sharing this with my students..

Getting back to the topic at hand -- I took thought Eva was the queen bee in her garden (thus the connection with the Garden of Eden).  Like Eve, she uses deceit to get what she wants.

[LISA-BRYAN]

It is interesting that both the flowers and the mothers are thorny ---  that explains a lot!

[adopted1]

I am sorry that I am late in posting. I had family issues.  I must say though that I have so enjoyed reading all the posts. 

My first impression of Meridias new family was one of awe and disbelief at first when it came to Eva.  For the life of me, I couldn't believe anyone could have that much 'sweetness' inside of them.  She soon proved me correct.  I disliked the way she mistreated Maline by creating that monster and catering to her, and acting like Petomy was no better than the dirt on the bottom of her shoes.  Poor Daniel, he didn't know any better.  He believed his mother to be a saint.

Once Meridia found out what Eva was truly all about, she stood her ground and became a viable competitor for a life without the 'chains of Eva'.  Meridia was able to see for herself the way Eva was able to manipulate her family, including Elias!  For everything evil that Eva did, Meridia was able to counteract that with good for the benefit of those around her even if it meant she had to do a little dirt herself.  She learned from the best as far as I'm concerned. 

I so enjoyed the part of the story when Gabriel and Ravenna came to Meridias defense when she left Daniel!  I loved it when Ravenna slapped Eva and how Gabriel had the presence of a bear protecting his cub.  At first I thought that their marriage might have been arranged and that there was never any love there at all. This show of coming together to protect their honor really impressed me.

I find it interesting that Meridia associates scents with certain aspects of her life.  The good of her life, of course, is surrounded by Verbena and the bad being surrounded by Eva...I mean the stench of dead roses.  I was thinking that she wasn't really smelling the scents at all.  The scents aren't what's real, it's the situation or circumstances that are real.  It's just like the bees....I remember as a child, when my mom droned on and on fussing at me about one thing or another, it became like an echo of running water to my ears.  Did I really hear her or the running water?  Elias felt the same way, just to shut Eva up, he gave in.  What did Eva hear when Malin started in on her for what ever reason? hmmmm, I wonder! 

I love Hannah!!!  She is the one friend we all need in life.  She shows up just at the right time.  Se was there for Meridia to help her explore new adventures (the first time in the square) and when the business needed a pick me up.  She was also there for solace.  What a friend!  No, Hannah was not real, not a guardian angel; she was Meridias fears and dares!

[no4daughter]

After getting a late start I have just completed chapter 19 and don't know if I can stop myself from reading more before next week.  I will try.

Here are my thoughts:

I posted rather late in the early chapter thread that I think, due to the mixing of the old (dowry, folks at the fair) and new (house on Monarch St. made of glass and steel, color photos, coupons) that this book is set in another world altogether.

I agree with many of the other comments that it seems Hannah appears when Meridia really needs her.  As I read about Hannah I wonder if Meridia suffers from multiple personality disorder and Hannah emerges when Meridia needs her.  Whatever the case, Hannah's two appearances have helped Meridia and if multiple personality disorder is caused by childhood trauma, then Meridia is a perfect candidate for it.

I am curious about what role jewels will have in Meridia's life.  She was initially fascinated with them when she first visited Elias' shop but didn't get a chance to talk with him more about it.  Then, when she left Eva's house and made sure to take her wedding jewelry with her and when Daniel opened his shop and she spent so much time memorizing the properties of the various jewels, I thought they would play some prominent role in the story.  Now, I am not so sure, but can't wait to find out.    

[bibanon1]

It is so interesting that the challenges that Meridia faces with her new family seem to make her more visible than ever before. She has had to come into her own.

I love the way scents are used within the story.  Scents provoke such a powerful response in each of us.  I love how they are associated with women in this book.

[Zeal]

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chris227 wrote:

Initially I wanted to like Daniel's family, hoping that they would give Meridia a better life than she had with her own parents.  I was a little weary of Eva because of the introduction to the book but I had absolutely no clue that she would turn out to be so evil!!  Malin I was weary of but in the end she ended up being the one to show Meridia the truth and now is "in awe of her."  For Daniel I have many mixed emotions, loved him but wanted Meridia to be cautious of him, hated him when he didn't go after Meridia, but then love him again, knowing he attempted to go after her but was held back by his father.  He is redeeming himself by not giving in to Eva now that they live on Willow Street.

Meridia changed greatly in these chapters.  I no longer picture her as a little girl.  She has learned to stand up for herself and others.  She is no longer invisible.

Ravenna actually seemed like a good mother at the end of this section.  She stuck up for her daughter (I loved it when she slapped Eva across the face!!), welcomed her back home, and thwarts Eva's attempts to hurt Meridia.  She stood by and cared for Meridia through the birth like she had been there for her her whole life.  Gabriel was growing on me when he initially confronted Eva and Elias but again showed his true colors by telling Meridia she would no longer be welcomed in his house if she returned to Daniel.

The scents work on the same level as the mists and the bees.  The roses are Eva's evil working to suffocate Meridia during the night, preventing her sleep.  The Verbana is Ravenna's good (who would have thought?) preventing Eva's presence and evil. 

The Willow Street home was initially dark and dirty but it seems Meridia and Daniel have changed it into a welcoming home, full of love.  I hopes the home would protect Meridia in some ways but the birth scene makes it seem that this isn't so.

Hannah appears again to show Meridia how to get customers for her store.  She gives Meridia strength and courage and shows her what to do.  She is definitely more than just an imaginary friend although more and more she definitely doesn't seem real.  A guardian angel, maybe?  But then where was she during Meridia's time on Orchard St.? 

The birth stories so far have been Meridia's and her son's.  Neither of these was good stories.  The midwife having written Meridia off for dead and both Meridia and her son almost dying.  It makes me worry about Noah's fate.

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Very well thought through response!  I like the idea of Hanna being a Guardian Angel to Meridia.  I was thinking some kind of conscience??  Hanna does seem to show up just when Meridia needs help, and she seems to solve most of Meridia's problems or lead Meridia to her own conclusions that result in future success.  I don't think Hanna is imaginary, but she certainly isn't completely human either.  I wonder if her true essence will be revealed by the end of the novel.

[Deltadawn]

I agree that Hannah is another part of Meridia's psyche that comes out when Meridia most needs her.

[jclay26]

My impressions of Meridia's new family were very accurate. I began to catch on with the first descriptions of the daughters when Meridia came to visit. The way Eva treated each daughter differently and the way that Malin was so condescending towards Eva I knew there was something wrong there. Plus Eva was overly nice and completely full of herself at that first meeting so that was a red flag.

Meridia has transformed from a quiet, timid, and invisible girl into a woman well-skilled at finding ways to keep her family afloat even with Eva on her heels. She has learned to be one step ahead of Eva rather than just submitting to her bizarre and overbearing behavior. She has grown into a wife that has learned to communicate with her husband as well as understand his affinity for his mother and towards the end of these chapters she has become a mother through the most difficult of labor and I believe she will be even stronger and more protective of her family now that she has survived such an event.

I am not sure what to think about Hannah. It seems she is some kind of spirit guide or imaginary guide (in Meridia's mind) that shows up when Meridia needs her most. It could be that Hannah is the part of Meridia that she is constantly trying to connect with - the part that is not affected by the chaos around her but is cool-headed and all-knowing. I do not know if I believe in her or not, but I do believe she is a positive influence on Meridia regardless of where she originates from. I wonder, though, if she is a spirit why didn't she show up at the birth of Noah and chase the bees away?  Maybe Ravenna's role in chasing the bees away will have some significance later on.