Middle Chapters, 10 - 19

[pode]

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hookedonbooks09 wrote:

Those stinking bees!  So nobody has a spare can of Raid?!  And while they're at it, a nice squirt in the face for Missy Eva isn't a bad idea!

Okay, I feel better now.  :-) 

--Barb

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Thanks for the laugh!!!

Pode

[pode]

I'm so glad Meridia and Daniel are finally more independent, more open-eyed about both families, and back together!

There's foreshadowing about more troubles ahead however. 

For being  such a "magical" book, there are certainly a lot of truths about relationships and the sorts of things that can derail even "good" marriages--luck, parents, siblings, misunderstandings, stubborness, COMMUNICATION.

Looking forward to wherever this crazy tale takes us next!

Pode

[love2readSZ]

I feel bad that I did not read all of the posts from the first 9 chapters but it wasn't unitl the new chapters that it came to my attention that 3's and multiples of 3's showed up quite frequently in the book.  Does anyone know of the significance of 3's ro is it a subset of the evil 666?

[DSaff]

I love the Raid comment! I wonder if Ravenna will do the honors, or if Meridia, Daniel, or Elias will. 

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hookedonbooks09 wrote:

Those stinking bees!  So nobody has a spare can of Raid?!  And while they're at it, a nice squirt in the face for Missy Eva isn't a bad idea!

Okay, I feel better now.  :-) 

I think that Meridia grew up quite a lot in this part of the book, and I was amused to see that she took a lot of her lessons from Eva, and then turned them around for her own good.

I was pleased to see Daniel finally see through his mother's wiles.  Well, sort of.  I'm still a little worried that he will be swayed back and turn against Meridia, but hopefully not.

I liked that Ravenna came out of her forgetfulness to help her daughter in a no-nonsense type of way, if not necessarily an affectionate way.  But then, that's not Ravenna!

I have liked the book all along, but found that it became more of a page-turner for me in this second section.

--Barb

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[pen21]

I agree on Meridia/Daniel. It was a good way for the story to go.

And you're right, so many truths about relationships and life.

pen21 

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pode wrote:

I'm so glad Meridia and Daniel are finally more independent, more open-eyed about both families, and back together!

There's foreshadowing about more troubles ahead however. 

For being  such a "magical" book, there are certainly a lot of truths about relationships and the sorts of things that can derail even "good" marriages--luck, parents, siblings, misunderstandings, stubborness, COMMUNICATION.

Looking forward to wherever this crazy tale takes us next!

Pode

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[DSaff]

That is a good question. I think Hannah wasn't with Meridia on Orchard Street because Meridia knew what to do - Ravenna had taught her. She did stand up to Eva. Hannah seems to appear when Meridia is vulnerable and alone.

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chris227 wrote:

Hannah appears again to show Meridia how to get customers for her store.  She gives Meridia strength and courage and shows her what to do.  She is definitely more than just an imaginary friend although more and more she definitely doesn't seem real.  A guardian angel, maybe?  But then where was she during Meridia's time on Orchard St.? 

 

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[meme1]

  I had not enjoyed this book until I started this second set of chapters.  But I have never trusted Eva.  I don't like her treatment of anyone.  Setiawan has developed her character to enable the reader to "see" her.

I am curious about the names of the streets - Monarch, Orchard, Willow.  I'm thinking that they must have a significance to the story. 

[Cata821]

Were your first impressions of Meridia's new family accurate?

No one's first impressions are entirely accurate. Meridia saw mostly what her new family wanted her to see...or mostly what Eva wanted her to see. But Meridia could see little cracks of truth in the facade that eventually turned into larger cracks. 

What do the role do the scents of Verbena and of Roses have in the story? It there a scent you recognize and associate with a loved one or a family member?

The scents represent people. Verbena = Ravenna, Roses = Eva. The sense of smell is one of my favorites because it is one that can immediately take a person to a different time and place. My dad's house always smelled like pine, and my sister always wore rose perfume. Everytime I smell pine and roses it takes me back to when I was younger and spent tons of time with them.

Why has Hannah appeared again, and why has she disappeared? Do you believe in her?

Hannah appears when Meridia needs her. Hannah is confident, strong and outgoing. When Meridia needs those traits and can't find them within herself, Hannah appears.

What birth stories have we had in the novel so far? What do each of them have to show us about the characters involved? Is the story of your birth always part of your own personal mythology of who you are?

In the story, the birth story relates to the reader a part of who a character is. But I actually think that the story of birth is more a part of the mother's personal mythology. My own daughter's birth proved to me just who I was deep down. While my daughter's story began that day, her birth was a meaningful, significant event in mine that I hold with me everyday, no matter what I do.

[Sunltcloud]

This might be true for many Western countries, but in many places in the world men are still not permitted to attend delivery. In Russia men only recently took to the idea.

An article about "Traditional Midwifery Care in Malaysia and Indonesia states:

"Birth is a social event in the rural areas. Other mothers will sit with the laboring woman, chewing the redstaining betel nut, and offering advice and assistance. Men are generally excluded from the birthing room, in the belief that the pregnant woman's blood is contaminating, although the father enters soon after delivery. If the birth is difficult,the women will perform symbolic rituals, and a bomoh may be called in to ease the pain with distraction techniques. For instance, the bomoh might blow on the mother's head while chanting mantras, or he might alternately spray her head with betel leaf juice while reciting the mantras."

 

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chris227 wrote in part:

The more I read the more confused I become about the time the story takes And then the thing that really makes me think the story setting is in the past was the whole childbrith scene - the midwife was brought to the house, Daniel was kept out of the room, and it was said that childbirth was "nothing for a man to see."  Now it is common for the father to be in the delivery room and childbirth isn't thought of as an "image of horror" as it is in the book.

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[KarebearX116]

Were your first impressions of Meridia's new family accurate?

When they were first introduced, I suspected that Daniel's family seemed too good to be true... that they embodied the exact match to the things that Meridia had missed out on in her own house... Now that they have revealed more about themselves, I stand by my original impression.  

In what ways has Meridia grown up in these chapters?

She has grown into more of a woman, sure in what she tolerates and accepts as truth. I think that while Ravenna may have not been the most consistent mother figure, she was able to instill the importance of independence in Meridia, as well as strength to not put up with things that are not appropriate.  

How have her feelings for her own family changed? Have your feelings for Ravenna and Gabriel changed in these chapters?

Despite their hardened personalities, Ravenna and Gabriel seem to have a tinge of obligation towards Meridia, of course, with strings attached. I would not say that they are my favorite characters, but I respect their strength and seem to think that whatever fog has enveloped their relationship has lifted briefly enough to stand up for Meridia when needed.  

What do the role do the scents of Verbena and of Roses have in the story? It there a scent you recognize and associate with a loved one or a family member?

The concept of smell and states of condensation and weather seem to breathe as another character in this book. Verbena and roses seem to indicate whose presence dominates the current main stage, and seem to indicate hints regarding the strength of the character with which they are associated. Personally, there are many scents that I am able to tie to family and loved ones and periods of my life... Just to name a few, the beach and boardwalk and the smell of a horse barn transport me directly back to my childhood, often associated with moments in time of total peace.  

What characteristics seem to make up the Willow Street house? (Please be careful of spoilers in answering!)

Warm, comforted and safe. 

Why has Hannah appeared again, and why has she disappeared? Do you believe in her?

Hannah appears when Meridia needs her. I wonder how much of her presence is an apparition versus just being inside of Meridia's head. She disappears when others come into the setting. I believe that she is the stronger side of Meridia that she is unable to tap into because of so much resentment from her upbringing. I can't help but wonder if she has any connection to the Nurse who disappeared earlier, or that maybe she forshadows an upcoming event, a la Fight Club style.  

Along with other readers, I had difficulty with the pacing of the first set of chapters, but now agree that it is moving along much better. I find it hard not to like the characters that sneak in (Pilar) and find myself wanting something terrible to happen to Eva, although I am torn between the truth of her upbringing, and do not know who are what to believe completely. 

[Sunltcloud]

I believe that the mythology accompanying one's birth is, at the least, very interesting, and occasionally an omen of things to come. I cite here the beginning of my life:

The tiny baby deprived of her final weeks in the great warmth of pre-birth adjusted to the rigors of life with difficulty. She had cradlecap and a sensitive stomach. Caring hands basted her head with cod liver oil and soothed her aching tummy with watery peppermint tea. According to her mother she was not a pretty sight. Visitors stood by her crib and mumbled ‘ach’, the German equivalent to ‘oh’. Sadly the ‘ach’ was never followed by the usual ‘what a beautiful baby.’  

In the years to come the little girl learned to gauge the different meanings of the word ‘ach’.  

The admonishing ach “oh, why don’t you stop being so sensitive.”

The flat ach “oh well, that’s the way she is.”

The ach of disbelief “oh my god, she did it again.”

And occasionally the ach with a note of surprise “oh look what she made.”

It is of course this last ach on which she built her talents. She nourished her selfesteem with her creations. The goal was to get a tone of approval into the ach word.

“Oh, this is really beautiful.” 

[MissShopaholic]

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From the first time Meridia met Eva i knew there was trouble.  I guess it was the way Eva walked in and glared at Permony or even asking Daniel to leave the room.  I don't know about you but when i meet the in-laws, i want my man right there next to me.

As i continued reading, i found Eva's actions more and more disturbing.  I also found that i couldn't put this book down. 

So the bee's are coming from her mouth. I was thinking it was some kind of metaphore to describe her nagging. When Meridia was giving birth (maybe i have to go back a reread) i got the impression the bee's were invisible until suddenly Ravenna was able to see them too.  Why is it that when Meridia could hear them around Elias, everyone else was oblivious to the sound? I'm thinking witchcraft here.

Hanna is either the imaginary friend who comes in those times of need or is her guardian angel of some sort or a ghost who is seen when she wants to be seen by a particular person... She has never failed to provide the hope and guidance to get Meridia through tough times. I just can't figure out that if my hunches are on the right path, how do the letters come about?  they are physical, tangible.  I also noticed that Hannah did guide her in everyway but did not help or assist Meridia in any way other than her advice, suggestions, and guidance.

Help me out if you can.  I really enjoy the story and am optimistic that my predictions will either be confirmed as i continue reading or corrected.

[lizard2000]

I would like to start a fund for some Raid!  :-)  Or at least some sort of mosquito net that will keep them away...perhaps one that is scented with verbena?!  Thanks for this!

lizard2000 

[emmagrace]

WOW! Talk about dysfunctional!! At first they seemed like a nice family, but now I see how they really are. I found myself wanting to strangle EVA!

Meridia had to grow up to defend herself from her mother-in-law. If she did not do something that woman would have driven her mad! I was really glad to see Meridia stand up for herself in these chapters!

I think Hannah appears when Meridia needs her the most and then when her problems are resolves she disappears back into Meridia's mind. It is my belief that Hannah is imaginary and she is a way for Meridia to cope.

[lizard2000]

I was sad when I had to put the book down at chapter 19! I didn't know how I was feeling about this book, the beginning was hard for me to follow sometimes, but this second reading has me definitely hooked. Here are my thoughts so far:

Were your first impressions of Meridia's new family accurate? I didn't quite know what to think about Eva. She was overly accepting and nice and as much as one would like to think people are made of this, given the luck Meridia has had so far in this book, I should have known. The sisters were definitely what I was expecting given the way they are treated by Eva and Elias and as for Daniel, I'm glad he is finally realizing what he has in Meridia!

In what ways has Meridia grown up in these chapters? She has become her own woman. As much as she relies on David as a partner, she realizes that when it comes to standing up to his mother, he's a little slow on the uptake. She initiates an independence for them in ways Daniel never would have thought of....the perfume on the corner, the replacement of sold items with plastic ones, hiding the money under the floorboards. Survival of the fittest and Daniel is lucky he has Meridia!

How have her feelings for her own family changed? Have your feelings for Ravenna and Gabriel changed in these chapters?

So far, I believe she sees the weakness in Gabriel because of his inability to love and has used this to her advantage. In the scene where he stands up for his daughter and watches Ravenna defend Meridia, there is a part of me that hopes they will see each other as they once did when they first fell in love. One can hope! I still think Gabriel is a lilly livered man for (supposedly) having a mistress, but like I said, in that one scene it seemed like he saw Ravenna for the first time in a long time and she him...here's to hoping mists disappear and bees eat Eva alive! :-p

What do the role do the scents of Verbena and of Roses have in the story? It there a scent you recognize and associate with a loved one or a family member?

Verbena is obviously the scent of Ravenna and roses of Eva. When I think of the two, I characterize verbena as being a scent one uses to freshen things up, to make it happier. I'm not sure what I associate roses with...never thought of them as being super romantic myself and after reading this book probably will always associate them with Eva..he he he. Maybe only the dying stinky ones with Eva.

I will always associate the smell of the glade scent County Gardens and Tums with my grandma Zola...she always had one of those fresheners in her bathroom and always had Tums.

What characteristics seem to make up the Willow Street house? (Please be careful of spoilers in answering!) I picture it as being the perfect home, not big, but a space where you are comfortable and love to visit. It holds it's own secrets, but invites the stranger in for an afternoon to get to know one another.

Why has Hannah appeared again, and why has she disappeared? Do you believe in her?

I see Hannah as being the part of us that not many listen to, but all of us have. She is the strength part of our minds that help us to step over a line or do something we know we should, but are too afraid to act upon. I do believe in her, but not as an actual person. I think she is someone that shows up when Meridia needs her...appropriately a wanderer.

What birth stories have we had in the novel so far? What do each of them have to show us about the characters involved? Is the story of your birth always part of your own personal mythology of who you are?

Birth stories...Meridia and Noah? Those are the only two I can think of...help me out here if there are others, I don't have the book in front of me. What do they show us about the characters...that they are stubborn? I really don't have a lot to reflect on this one, except to say that I was born on one of the coldest days of the winter, my mom was a teacher and started going into labor during class and chose to stick it out for the rest of the day! Then her car wouldn't start. Being the "good first born" that I am, I decided to make everyone happy and wait until everyone else was good and ready to have me around. Didn't want to upset anyone. :-P Apparently a people pleaser since birth.

[ImBookingIt]

First, I wanted to say I didn't enjoy this section as much as the first, I think because it felt a little too real to me.   The bad things in the first section were shrouded and softened by magic, which diverted me.

So:  I had been cautiously hopeful about Meridia's new family.  I wasn't surprised to be disapointed. 

I had been expecting Eva to be something close to evil to Meridia, that is set up at the very beginning. I didn't expect much either way from Elias, and he did redeem himself in the end.   I was most disappointed in Daniel, and I wish I believed in him at this point, but he hasn't entirely won back my trust yet.

Meridia has finally started to learn to take control of the world around her. I wonder what would happen now if she took on the mist?

In one sense, Ravenna and Gabriel have started to redeem themselves, but I don't trust their progress either.  Gabriel came through when Meridia needed him, but said he wouldn't do it again.  I'm withholding judgement for now.

OK, so Hannah seems more like an imaginary friend now.  I've pretty much given up my idea of her as a real person affected by the magic surrounding Meridia.  I'm still willing to consider ghost or other supernatural creature.  However, I'm not sure that I think she was necessary at this point if she was imaginary.  Meridia had the confidence to take on all other aspects of the business.  I guess she needed the moral support to go outside and talk to people.

I don't think I've seen this many horrible birth stories in one place before!  That is part of the terror of this section for me.   Terrible births are rare but real.  Horrific mother in laws are unfortunately not uncommon. Husbands that don't stick to their wives are real (and vice versa).  Living with your in-laws is a situation made for disaster even in our world.

I am still looking forward to the rest of the book, but not as much as I was before.

[Sunltcloud]

Very well said. I totally agree.

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lizard2000 wrote in part:

I see Hannah as being the part of us that not many listen to, but all of us have. She is the strength part of our minds that help us to step over a line or do something we know we should, but are too afraid to act upon. I do believe in her, but not as an actual person. I think she is someone that shows up when Meridia needs her...appropriately a wanderer.

[Amanda-Louise]

Yeah, I thought about that.  She certainly wasn't useful in her natal home, right?  Plus she is learning all sorts of new stuff.  However, it's the subservience she accepts that bothers me.

Amanda

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Immortal-Spirit wrote:

Amanda-Louise,

Perhaps Meridia feels useful.

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[ImBookingIt]

I didn't like the subservience, but I can believe that after her upbringing, she would do pretty much anything to "earn" love and acceptance.

Laura

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Amanda-Louise wrote:

Yeah, I thought about that.  She certainly wasn't useful in her natal home, right?  Plus she is learning all sorts of new stuff.  However, it's the subservience she accepts that bothers me.

Amanda

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Immortal-Spirit wrote:

Amanda-Louise,

Perhaps Meridia feels useful.

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[MSaff]

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rkubie wrote:

These chapters follow Meridia's life from her fist attempts to fit into her husband's household, to the birth of her son.

Were your first impressions of Meridia's new family accurate?

In what ways has Meridia grown up in these chapters?

How have her feelings for her own family changed? Have your feelings for Ravenna and Gabriel changed in these chapters?

What do the role do the scents of Verbena and of Roses have in the story? It there a scent you recognize and associate with a loved one or a family member?

What characteristics seem to make up the Willow Street house? (Please be careful of spoilers in answering!)

Why has Hannah appeared again, and why has she disappeared? Do you believe in her?

What birth stories have we had in the novel so far? What do each of them have to show us about the characters involved? Is the story of your birth always part of your own personal mythology of who you are?

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   Good Afternoon Everyone,

  Well we're into our next section, and I can say that I have been ready to discuss again, so that I could continue reading.  

  As I began reading and being introduced to the family members of Meridia's new family, I felt as though Meridia was finally going to escape her own family and past.  Yes, Daniel's sisters were going to be somewhat of a difficulty for Meridia, because she was perceived as coming between Daniel and them.  I really expected Permony to fall for Meridia, because she was someone that she sees as a new friend.  Someone new to get more attention from.  This was evident with the story telling and such.  Malin, being the older sister, would not readily accept Meridia, but rather treat her as an intruder.  

  Now for Eva.  She initially seems pleasant, but as we soon find, she is most definitely evil.  Daniel's father Elias appears to be extremely meek and mild.  Throughout these middle chapters he doesn't change until Eva threatens him and torments him.  Then and only then, does he become a force to be reckoned with.  So all in all when completing these chapters, I can say that my first impressions were wrong.

  Merida has grown by leaps and bounds in these chapters.  She is more independent, she has matured and is self reliant being a wife to Daniel.  Her character has also shown improvement and she has learned many new things.  She even has started standing up for herself with regard to her new family, and I might add that she is very intelligent.

  Initially there didn't appear to be any change for Meridia's feelings for her mother and father, but I think somewhere deep down, she always knew somehow or other, that when she really needed them to step up to the plate, that her mother and father would be there.  That became quite evident when Meridia returned to her parent's home following the explosive battle with Eva and Elias.  I must say here however, that I lost a lot of respect for Daniel here, because he didn't stand up for his wife.

  When push came to shove, Ravenna and Gabriel, (especially Gabriel, in my opinion), took care of Meridia near the end of this section.  Gabriel arranged the house for Meridia and Daniel and he even got the business for them.  

  I have found the Hannah appears when Meridia most needs her.  I believe that Hannah is Meridia's alter ego.  She comes out and gives inspiration and guidance, and when Meridia no longer needs her, she disappears again.  I expect we may see again later in the story.