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Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-14-2009 02:59 PM
ponie wrote:Eva: evil, envious, erroneous, egregious
Elias: eclipsed, eroded, emboldened?
Malin: malicious, mean, malevolent, maybe not!
Permony: passive, preferred (by Meridia and Elias)
Daniel: dense, deluded, divided, delayed, desperate, defending, daddy
Meridia: manipulative, mathematical, maturing, managing, mommy
Ravenna: rescuing, ravaging, revengeful
Gabriel: galling, grieving, goes to bat (for Meridia), guardian, grandfather
Patina: pawn, pitiful, pathetic, peacekeeping
Gabilan: gabby
Pilar: prostitute?, prophet?, poisonous?
Hannah: helpful, here?
Noah: new
(In the Genesis account, Noah, whom God called "a righteous man", saves his family in the ark. Can this Noah save this family??? )
And this is interesting...
In Latter-day Saint theology, the archangel Gabriel lived in his mortal life as the patriarch Noah. Gabriel and Noah are regarded as the same individual; Noah being his mortal name and Gabriel being his heavenly name. (from wikipedia)
Nice ponie!!! Very nice!
Pode
â Henry Ward Beecher
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-14-2009 03:24 PM
FYI
Some of you must be having the seem problem that I have........not enough time to read through all the postings in all the threads. I just have to recommend that you all read the "Questions for Erick...." thread.
Erick is answering the questions wonderfully. I have been enjoying the book but his answers about both the book and himself really enhance this experience!!!
Pode
â Henry Ward Beecher
Re: Numbers
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06-14-2009 05:10 PM
chris227 wrote:
Ravenna mute for 3 months 3 weeks and 3 days which is the exact length of time Meridia was on Orchard Street.
I just took this to mean that Ravenna missed Meridia so much that she was mute the whole time that she was gone. Maybe I missed something, but I didn't read too much into this.
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-14-2009 05:17 PM
eadieburke wrote:
My daughters used to remark that things that were donated to them by their cousin always carried a certain scent from her house. It seems to be true that when you visit other homes they all seem to carry a scent either from foods they cook or perfumes they use.
When my daughter stays with my parents, I can smell the scent of their homes in her clothes. My parents are divorced and each of their homes has its own smell that I can recognize on her when she comes back home. Neither smokes, has pets in the house, or anything else to leave a bad odor--they just have their own smell that I can recognize.
Re: Numbers
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06-14-2009 06:28 PM
ladybug74 wrote:
chris227 wrote:
Ravenna mute for 3 months 3 weeks and 3 days which is the exact length of time Meridia was on Orchard Street.
I just took this to mean that Ravenna missed Meridia so much that she was mute the whole time that she was gone. Maybe I missed something, but I didn't read too much into this.
That was how I took it also, that she was mute the exact amount of time Meridia was gone because she missed Meridia.
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19 - Hannah, what's in a name?
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06-15-2009 09:14 AM
Carmenere_lady wrote:Hannah, backward or forwards it still spells Hannah, a mirror image, there's got to be something to that. Is Hannah Meridia's mirror image?
Wow that's absolutely amazing that you noticed that! Really got me thinking now.................lol
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19 - Hannah, what's in a name?
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06-16-2009 04:32 PM
- Frank Lloyd Wright
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-16-2009 04:40 PM
Were your first impressions of Meridia's new family accurate?
Yes, unfortunately I really felt like it was "too good to be true" that Meridia would just escape her depressing household to find a new and wonderful life in Daniel's family... wouldn't be much of a story if that were true now, would it?
What is interesting is how both Eva and Ravenna have tormented her husbands "supernaturally" but for different reasons. It surprised me that Meridia didn't make that observation sooner considering her past experiences at home. I think in this way Malin's revelation to her is very powerful and took me by surprise - the kind of surprise that Meridia probably felt as well. I really like how this author can describe feelings and sights and smells so accurately so that you feel as though you are experiencing it all yourself.
In what ways has Meridia grown up in these chapters?
Meridia has learned how to make herself "visible" and how to defend what she knows is right and honorable. I was very proud of her when she stood up to Eva in the kitchen. However, I think the heartbreaking loss she felt thinking that Daniel didn't care enough to run after her also helped her understand that she had grown so much that she could not go back to living the way she did, invisible and unloved by everyone. I think that is why, when she realizes she is pregnant, her entire perception of what is important changes. She realizes that no one has ever cared about her like Daniel does and this is something she cannot give up on.
How have her feelings for her own family changed? Have your feelings for Ravenna and Gabriel changed in these chapters?
I think Meridia still hurts from the treatment of her parents, especially her father, but I think that her feelings (and subsequently mine) changed when her parents defended her against Eva and Elias. Their defense of her honor and feelings was the first act of parenting they had ever done. In the time that follows her father proves to be insufferable toward her but at least will not let someone else abuse his daughter. His demands of Eva and Elias were fantastic, and fulfilled Meridia's dreams, even though his motives were partly selfish.
Ravenna on the other hand, I believe, has changed much more so than Gabriel. The way she took care of Daniel and Meridia in their first months, with gifts and surprises and making sure they had everything they needed was as if Meridia was no longer forgotten but rather the first and only thing Ravenna was thinking about. I think that maybe this is because she relates with Meridia's new role as expectant mother. It reminds her of how hopeful and happy she was before Meridia was born. By the end of chapter 19 I felt like Ravenna was the hero, Eva the antagonist.
What do the role do the scents of Verbena and of Roses have in the story? It there a scent you recognize and associate with a loved one or a family member?
The scents add to the mysticism of the story, but I don't know that they mean much more than that. We all associate smells with memories or people I think. I know that I could recognize the smell of my parent's house any time, and I still remember how my grandmother smelled when I was little. I think smell is a very vivid sense that awakens our memories.
Why has Hannah appeared again, and why has she disappeared? Do you believe in her?
Hannah always appears when Meridia feels desperate, have you noticed? I think she is not a real person, but I could be wrong. She seems to be like Meridia's guardian angel.
What birth stories have we had in the novel so far? What do each of them have to show us about the characters involved? Is the story of your birth always part of your own personal mythology of who you are?
Meridia's birth story: born after a long labor, apparently dead. Ravenna willed her to live.
Permony's birth story: born after an especially long and bloody labor, with strange colored eyes. Midwife was going to gouge them out but Eva "saved her from blindness."
Noah's birth story: cursed by his grandmother to not come out, bees attack Meridia and swell her whole body, making delivery impossible. Ravenna realizes the problem but not before they have to cut the baby out to save Meridia's life. Meridia is left barren but Noah survives.
Each time it seems the mother cares deeply about the baby when it is born. Ravenna out of guilt tries to forget Meridia's existence when she realizes what Meridia witnessed her do. Eva obviously cared enough for Permony to save her from blindess, but does nothing but berates and criticizes her as she grows up. With this pattern, I can only hope for the best for Noah!!!
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-16-2009 05:36 PM
Were your first impressions of Meridia's new family accurate?
I had my doubts from the beginning. Especially since the back cover says the wicked mother-in-law imaginable. But each character is different than how they initially portray themselves to
Meridia.
In what ways has Meridia grown up in these chapters?
She's forced to stand up for herself and her family. Something which I wasn't sure she would do. She's never had someone who actually showed love for her though, so I'm sure she had a hard time stepping away from that.
How have her feelings for her own family changed? Have your feelings for Ravenna and Gabriel changed in these chapters? I think she was suprised at how the reacted. I think she expected to go home and be invisible again. Instead, her parents went to bat for her.
What do the role do the scents of Verbena and of Roses have in the story? It there a scent you recognize and associate with a loved one or a family member? The scents seem to be another form of magic in this story. Although I do recognize scents for loved ones, etc
.
Why has Hannah appeared again, and why has she disappeared? Do you believe in her?
Hannah appeared because Meridia needed her. I'm still not sure what she is.
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-17-2009 10:59 PM
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-18-2009 11:20 AM
pode wrote:
ponie wrote:Eva: evil, envious, erroneous, egregious
Elias: eclipsed, eroded, emboldened?
Malin: malicious, mean, malevolent, maybe not!
Permony: passive, preferred (by Meridia and Elias)
Daniel: dense, deluded, divided, delayed, desperate, defending, daddy
Meridia: manipulative, mathematical, maturing, managing, mommy
Ravenna: rescuing, ravaging, revengeful
Gabriel: galling, grieving, goes to bat (for Meridia), guardian, grandfather
Patina: pawn, pitiful, pathetic, peacekeeping
Gabilan: gabby
Pilar: prostitute?, prophet?, poisonous?
Hannah: helpful, here?
Noah: new
(In the Genesis account, Noah, whom God called "a righteous man", saves his family in the ark. Can this Noah save this family??? )
And this is interesting...
In Latter-day Saint theology, the archangel Gabriel lived in his mortal life as the patriarch Noah. Gabriel and Noah are regarded as the same individual; Noah being his mortal name and Gabriel being his heavenly name. (from wikipedia)
I think it would be fun to go back at the end of the book and re-evaluate this list! Hmmmm?!
Barb
Re: my thoughts: 10 - 19
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06-18-2009 11:39 PM
Amanda-Louise wrote:The roses are strong, however the marigolds are plentiful. The roses represent Eva, who is strong in her horrible passive-aggressive way. And the Marigolds are Patina?
Amanda-Louise,
Excellent point. The roses are outwardly beautiful but they have thorns. I hadn't thought about it that way. Thanks for sharing that thought.
"I still find each day too short for all the thoughts I want to think, all the walks I want to take, all the books I want to read, and all the friends I want to see. " --John Burroughs
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-19-2009 12:05 AM
bookworm_gp wrote:
I thought Eva showed her true colors after the wedding when she took the gifts and I was disappointed that Meridia and Daniel didn't stand up to her. I was even more disappointed when Meridia let Eva order her around but she was probably happy about the attention after getting none in her own home. Malin is trying to be nasty but her outburst with Meridia might wake her up and show her Eva's true colors. I just hope getting a little backbone doesn't cause her to lose Daniel.
I was struck by Eva's action when she took the gifts and even moreso by Meridia's reaction to it. She seemed so taken with the idea of being part of a family that she was willing to do anything to avoid upsetting "equilibrium". Meridia has been placed in the role of servant as far as Eva is concerned...she's a younger version of Pilar, I think. It's amazing what we're willing to put up with for attention, I guess. I'm terribly disappointed in Daniel, since there is no way he can't see at least some of what is going on...he lives with these people for heaven's sake! He refuses to protect his wife. I like Daniel less and less as the book progresses. ...And EVA, she's the character I LOVE to hate...she just gets worse and worse.
"I still find each day too short for all the thoughts I want to think, all the walks I want to take, all the books I want to read, and all the friends I want to see. " --John Burroughs
Re: my thoughts: 10 - 19
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06-19-2009 07:13 AM
This is Erick's explanation about the roses and the marigolds:
May be a *********spoiler********* if you haven't finished the book!
To me, the marigolds and the roses represented the battle between Meridia and Eva. Before Meridia steps foot inside 27 Orchard Road, the roses reign supreme. Then slowly with her arrival, the marigolds multiply and take over. At the end of the book (since you've finished it), the marigolds have covered the front lawn. Some readers take it as a battle of good vs. evil, although I don't think that Eva is pure evil, and I don't think that Meridia is pure good. They both are very strong, very complicated women with their own set of flaws, and to reduce them to simply "good and evil" does them a great disservice.
blkeyesuzi wrote:
Amanda-Louise wrote:The roses are strong, however the marigolds are plentiful. The roses represent Eva, who is strong in her horrible passive-aggressive way. And the Marigolds are Patina?
Amanda-Louise,
Excellent point. The roses are outwardly beautiful but they have thorns. I hadn't thought about it that way. Thanks for sharing that thought.
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-19-2009 07:38 AM
Well, first of all, I think I am definitely loving the second half of the book even more than the first half. I guess part of it is that I love this point of Meridia's life. She's finding some happiness and is finally under the protection of her husband.
You knew when Daniel's family was introduced that they were a family full of secrets.The incident between Malin and Permony was a foreshadowing of a dark relationship between Eva and Permony, and you had to wonder "why?". You got the feeling that there was another side to Eva, and that this was all just a front. Later on all of the dark intricacies of Daniel's family are brought to the surface.
I love the strength that Meridia has found. I like this woman that she is becoming. Strong, sensitive and wise, she's found her groove in life. Additionally Ravenna has finally become a mother to her. She is becoming a protector. Even Gabriel has proven to be something of a protector.
I believe that Hannah is a different aspect of Meridia herself. She seems to be that strong and confident side that was hidden for so long. I think perhaps the reason that she disappeared this time is because she was no longer needed. She now exists WITHIN Meridia. That would be why she couldn't be seen in the mirror-- because she is a part of Meridia herself.
I've said in the past that I'm not a "book club" kind of gal. I don't want to sit around and discuss the symbolism in books; I just want to read a good story. However I am LOVING this book. I love the symbolism. AND it's a good story!
Heather
http://cerebralgirl.blogspot.com/
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-19-2009 10:26 AM
Carmenere_lady wrote:
Hannah, backward or forwards it still spells Hannah, a mirror image, there's got to be something to that. Is Hannah Meridia's mirror image?
Excellent observation!! I think you have something there!
Lisa
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-19-2009 12:07 PM
First of all I am really loving this book and having a hard time putting it down. In the beginning I really hated Meridia's mother & father, but now especially her mother, is standing up for Meridia and showing some obligations to help her daughter. Ravenna still won't show any love or compassion but I think she is slowly melting. As for Gabriel there was one glimmer of hope when he kissed the baby.
I think Hannah is an imaginary friend for Meridia when she needs someone to bounce things off of. Lets face it the poor thing really hasn't had many close ties with anybody else besides Daniel. As far as her relationship with Eva, I think Meridia has out smarted her on many occasions and I love it! Can't wait to see how this all evolves.
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-19-2009 02:06 PM
I am enjoying these chapters much more than I did the beginning chapters. This is not my usual type of read but it has opened my eyes to a whole different type of books to read. I am now having a hard time putting the book down. Erick telling us to use our imaginations really helped me out alot. I kept trying to imagine when and where this is taking place. I just needed to let go and just see the setting in my imagination.
Were your first impressions of Meridia's new family accurate?
I was very leary of Meridia's new family especially that Eva! I just knew she would be bad news.
In what ways has Meridia grown up in these chapters?
I think Meridia is more confidant, independent and getting more comfortable with herself.
Have your feelings for Ravenna and Gabriel changed in these chapters?
I think my feelings for them have changed somewhat. I was surprised when they both stood up for Meridia with the in laws. I felt it was a good start to changing their relationship with their daughter.
Why has Hannah appeared again, and why has she disappeared? Do you believe in her?
Hannah still baffles me with her mysterious disappearances. I am almost convinced she is an imaginary friend who appears when Meridia needs her most. She does what needs to be done and disappears.
I am off to read the next section. I am really enjoying the book, just late getting it read.
http://bookaholicmom.blogspot.com/
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-19-2009 06:23 PM
blkeyesuzi, I can't tell you how many times I felt the same way about Daniel. It was so frustrating to sit back and watch him push away (so nonchalantly) all of Meridia's thoughts and fears about Eva. I'm glad she spoke up anyway. I wanted to shake Daniel for not seeing his mother for who she really is.
blkeyesuzi wrote:
bookworm_gp wrote:
I thought Eva showed her true colors after the wedding when she took the gifts and I was disappointed that Meridia and Daniel didn't stand up to her. I was even more disappointed when Meridia let Eva order her around but she was probably happy about the attention after getting none in her own home. Malin is trying to be nasty but her outburst with Meridia might wake her up and show her Eva's true colors. I just hope getting a little backbone doesn't cause her to lose Daniel.
I was struck by Eva's action when she took the gifts and even moreso by Meridia's reaction to it. She seemed so taken with the idea of being part of a family that she was willing to do anything to avoid upsetting "equilibrium". Meridia has been placed in the role of servant as far as Eva is concerned...she's a younger version of Pilar, I think. It's amazing what we're willing to put up with for attention, I guess. I'm terribly disappointed in Daniel, since there is no way he can't see at least some of what is going on...he lives with these people for heaven's sake! He refuses to protect his wife. I like Daniel less and less as the book progresses. ...And EVA, she's the character I LOVE to hate...she just gets worse and worse.
Re: Middle Chapters, 10 - 19
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06-21-2009 08:22 AM
Hi, I saw your post. I am not sure that Meridia is manipulative. She does deserve to be happy. It seems like she went from one disfunctional family to another.
I can't believe Eve. She is definitely manipulative. I definitely believe that she had alternative motives for Daniel to marry Meridia. I am not sure what yet. Daniel do not have much of a backbone yet. He needs to get him and Meridia out and get their own place.
The father, Elias does not do much. He reminds me of Meridia dad.
I am finding this book interesting and intriguing. I keep wondering what is going to happen next.
I am not trouble by not having a time or place. This story could be set in any time or place. You just have to imagine where you would like it to be. I think that is part of the mystery of this book. I don't think Eric meant for us to know what time or place it is suppose to be.
We can concentrate on the story he has giving us.
I will definitely read his next book. I would like to see him write a sequal to this book. Just a thought.
ReadingPatti