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Distinguished Correspondent
JaneM
Posts: 152
Registered: ‎02-01-2008

Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30

There have been several posts from individuals who don't like the book, the length of it, the mystical nature and the metaphors, but I would like to say that I absolutely love the book, the language, the characters, they way they are growing and changing with each new roadblock or challenge.  Eva is the character we love to hate who causes so much of the conflict, without which there would be no story, and who cannot change.  It's the surprises - Pilar, Elias's behavior, the shifting of our relationship to Gabriel and Ravenna - that makes this book so engaging.  And as someone else has mentioned, the wordsmithing that Erick uses is exceptional.  I love the phrases and often read and re-read them.
Jane M.
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PiperMurphy
Posts: 174
Registered: ‎09-19-2008
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Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30


dhaupt wrote:

JerseyAngel wrote:
I forgot to mention, before Elias died, Meridia thinks he whispered "Save her". I think he meant Permony. She will be alone now with Eva. I would love for her to find a handsome rich man to marry, to rub in her mother's face, and then leave & never see her again!
You know I wondered about that, I at first thought it was Permony too, but what if he was talking about Eva. I mean even after everything I think that Elias loved Eva, maybe he wants her to be able to go to that peaceful place with him after she dies and maybe he thinks that if she keeps being a bit-h that the who ever rules the heavens will keep her out.
Just something to think about 

 


I also thought he meant Eva. Despite everything, I think he loved her unconditionally and realized that she needs to be saved from herself. Ultimately, the only person that she is hurting is herself. Everyone else has been able to move on without her.

"When I have a little money, I buy books; and if I have any left, I buy food and clothes."
~Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus~
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FrankieD
Posts: 73
Registered: ‎12-16-2007
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Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30

I haven't been up to par for the last two weeks...damn cancer crap...but finally caight up with the reading and haven't been disappointed. Although...I find myself yelling at the "screen" now and then when Meridia believes everything she is told...no matter who tells her. I'm not sure about who Meridia should be saving...and thought Peremony was the prime candidate but also have been bending toward Eva...because she really can use it the most...and saving her would make a lot of other people have happier endings. Now I'm really anxious for the final part.

" The longer I live...the more beautiful life becomes."
- Frank Lloyd Wright
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Lil_Irish_Lass
Posts: 163
Registered: ‎11-21-2008
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Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30/ still not sure about this book.


Linda10 wrote:
Although quite a bit has happened in this past week's chapters, I think the biggest "whoa" has been finding out that Pilar was Gabriel's mistress!  I liked her as soon as we met her in the story.  She seemed to be a very caring person and wanting to help Meridia.  I guess that's one sign of a good book/author -- being able to paint a picture one way, only to find out it's not the true or complete picture down the road.

Not that cheating is morally right, but it doesn't make Pilar a bad person. Her actions towards Meridia and Patina were never anything but caring.

 

And it's also not like she's calling Gabriel away from a happy, loving home for some fun. He lives in eternal winter in a home with a wife who will not talk to him. While I was unsure if there ever was a mistress I could never find Gabriel solely at fault for cheating. Ravenna and the cold gave him no other choice.

 

That goes either way... if a spouse is not getting love and affection at home, no matter how much they love their husband/wife, they will wind up looking elsewhere for physical comfort and connection... we're only human and we have needs.

Though I was shocked to find out the woman behind the door was Pilar myself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"No sensible man ever engages, unprepared, in a fencing match of words with a woman." - The Woman in White
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julyso
Posts: 67
Registered: ‎12-04-2007
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Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30/ still not sure about this book.

Cashmere_lady,

I am SO with you! I have also been having a hard time with this book. The beginning was tough, I sort of got into the middle, but it is getting frustrating again. When you said it was a long story, repeating over and over...that is exactly what I was thinking! I feel like the same kind of stuff keeps happening, again & again. I do want to know what happens, so I am sticking with it.


Carmenere_lady wrote:
As I have stated in other posts, I have been having a hard time with the story from the get go. Yes, the bees are getting quite tiresome as Eva continues to drone on and on and on. We get it, she doesn't shut up! Any other man but Elias would have put a stop to it one way or another, especially after the Noah fiasco. The mists are just as aggrativating to me as the bees, though less so. It's a long story which repeats itself over and over again and I'm getting a little bored. I thought fables were short to the point stories with a moral. I'm still reading so I may hit the moral eventually, but it's not short. Some readers have compared this story to Life of Pi, which I love and holds a permanent place in my library, so I am still hoping for the best to come.
Julie
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hookedonbooks09
Posts: 128
Registered: ‎02-04-2009
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Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30


JaneM wrote:
There have been several posts from individuals who don't like the book, the length of it, the mystical nature and the metaphors, but I would like to say that I absolutely love the book, the language, the characters, they way they are growing and changing with each new roadblock or challenge.  Eva is the character we love to hate who causes so much of the conflict, without which there would be no story, and who cannot change.  It's the surprises - Pilar, Elias's behavior, the shifting of our relationship to Gabriel and Ravenna - that makes this book so engaging.  And as someone else has mentioned, the wordsmithing that Erick uses is exceptional.  I love the phrases and often read and re-read them.

Jane, I have to agree with mostly all you've opined here.  As far as the length of the book, I'm thinking this one of those that sticks with you long after you've finished the last page! 

 

The whole theme from the very beginning, with the unpredictable stairs, seems to be about shifting and changing---all of the characters in the roles we see them playing, as well as our own views and feelings about them!

 

And yes, Erick has a phenomenal way with words.  So poetic and lyrical.  The book is easy to read and just seems to flow.  I've enjoyed it and had trouble staying with the group and not finishing it.  (something I don't like to do because it makes the discussion more challenging!)

 

Bravo, Erick!  Looking forward to the next tome!

 

--Barb

 

 

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. ~Groucho Marx
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Zeal
Posts: 258
Registered: ‎03-18-2009
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Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30


JaneM wrote:
There have been several posts from individuals who don't like the book, the length of it, the mystical nature and the metaphors, but I would like to say that I absolutely love the book, the language, the characters, they way they are growing and changing with each new roadblock or challenge.  Eva is the character we love to hate who causes so much of the conflict, without which there would be no story, and who cannot change.  It's the surprises - Pilar, Elias's behavior, the shifting of our relationship to Gabriel and Ravenna - that makes this book so engaging.  And as someone else has mentioned, the wordsmithing that Erick uses is exceptional.  I love the phrases and often read and re-read them.

 

Thanks for this post...my sentiments, exactly!
"I learned to dream through reading, learned to create dreams through writing, and learned to develop dreamers through teaching. I shall always be a dreamer."
Sharon Draper
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emmagrace
Posts: 162
Registered: ‎12-04-2008
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Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30


There have been several posts from individuals who don't like the book, the length of it, the mystical nature and the metaphors, but I would like to say that I absolutely love the book, the language, the characters, they way they are growing and changing with each new roadblock or challenge.  Eva is the character we love to hate who causes so much of the conflict, without which there would be no story, and who cannot change.  It's the surprises - Pilar, Elias's behavior, the shifting of our relationship to Gabriel and Ravenna - that makes this book so engaging.  And as someone else has mentioned, the wordsmithing that Erick uses is exceptional.  I love the phrases and often read and re-read them.

 

Well said Jane! I love the phrases as well and I am thoroughly enjoying this book!

Inspired Contributor
pode
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎01-30-2009

Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30

I continue to enjoy this book!

 

The ups and downs in this story are extreme, but as an older women I've found life's ups and downs parallel much of this book.  Personalities change as we travel life.  Sometimes there's a very, very bad person who makes life difficult.  (I've had a prime example for the past 12 years!)  Children change family dynamics enormously!  Finances are usually a significant item.  We can love someone and not approve of decisions or behavior.  There isn't always a happy ending.  Our men are often not as strong and protective or perspective as we'd like.  A mistake or misconception can take years (and sometimes never) to remedy.

 

I can't wait to find out how Erick ties up his story.  Now I can keep going to the end!

 

Pode

"Where is human nature so weak as in the bookstore?"
â Henry Ward Beecher
Frequent Contributor
LoBugs
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎03-10-2009

Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30

As one of the people who did not like the beginning of this book, I would like to point out that I have enjoyed the last two sections. However, if I was not reading this book for this club I can most positively say that I would not have stuck with it until about chapter 15 when I finally felt a desire to read on. In my apinion that is just to long to read without feeling hooked and that is to bad because I have enjoyed the last half of the book.  Sorry, but I want to be honest.
Lobugs
Inspired Correspondent
tabcat
Posts: 100
Registered: ‎09-17-2008

Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30/ still not sure about this book.

I am having just the opposite feelings about the book.  I would find the anger, pain, cruelty  inflicted by Eva, childbirth horrors etc. too difficult to read without the bees, ice, mists, roses, and other magical elements. They take the edge off of all the emotions for me and I am able to continue reading.   I don't usually enjoy family drama books.  I much prefer "escape" novels.   

So Erick's style is working well for me.

Tcat

 

 

vivico1 wrote:
I really do like the story, but I really am starting to not like the mystical way its told at times. Some of it is still good, some feel redundant and some just feel like, well I don't know what. But as I said, I do like the storyline enough to keep going with it. I want to see what happens to everyone. Its just getting hard tho. Is anyone having any feelings even similar to me on parts of the book?


 

Inspired Correspondent
libralady
Posts: 159
Registered: ‎09-23-2008

Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30


JaneM wrote:
There have been several posts from individuals who don't like the book, the length of it, the mystical nature and the metaphors, but I would like to say that I absolutely love the book, the language, the characters, they way they are growing and changing with each new roadblock or challenge.  Eva is the character we love to hate who causes so much of the conflict, without which there would be no story, and who cannot change.  It's the surprises - Pilar, Elias's behavior, the shifting of our relationship to Gabriel and Ravenna - that makes this book so engaging.  And as someone else has mentioned, the wordsmithing that Erick uses is exceptional.  I love the phrases and often read and re-read them.

 

Jane, I am in total agreement with you.  The experience of reading this book is so different from any other book I have read to date.  I think Erick has done a masterful job of weaving culture, metaphors, symbolism and mysticism into this book.  In my post to him, I mentioned that I find my feelings for the characters shifting as I move further into the story. His reply was, "that is how it should be."  I am truly loving this book.  I will admit, I don't think I would have chosen this book on my own. I am so looking forward to future books by him. 
"Sow today what you want to reap tomorrow"
Distinguished Correspondent
PiperMurphy
Posts: 174
Registered: ‎09-19-2008

Re: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30/ still not sure about this book.


tabcat wrote:

I am having just the opposite feelings about the book.  I would find the anger, pain, cruelty  inflicted by Eva, childbirth horrors etc. too difficult to read without the bees, ice, mists, roses, and other magical elements. They take the edge off of all the emotions for me and I am able to continue reading.   I don't usually enjoy family drama books.  I much prefer "escape" novels.   

So Erick's style is working well for me.

Tcat

 

 

vivico1 wrote:
I really do like the story, but I really am starting to not like the mystical way its told at times. Some of it is still good, some feel redundant and some just feel like, well I don't know what. But as I said, I do like the storyline enough to keep going with it. I want to see what happens to everyone. Its just getting hard tho. Is anyone having any feelings even similar to me on parts of the book?


 


May I offer another perspective? Erick has written the book so that all the mystical elements can be interpreted as purely metaphorical, or they can be pictured as being real. I can see that if you see the bees and mist as a metaphor, then other words could be chosen to describe the same thing that wouldn't seem redundant. However, I see Eva actually surrounded by great swarms of bees. For me they have to be there, otherwise Eva has lost her evilness and the story is changed. She would just be speaking words, and I would turn into poor Elias trying to tune her out. Notice that when her bees are buzzing we aren't told what she is actually saying. The buzzing takes the place of some dialog that we may not want to read. I think that the beauty and fun of this book is that we are free to think and feel whatever we choose and whatever that may be is perfectly OK.

"When I have a little money, I buy books; and if I have any left, I buy food and clothes."
~Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus~
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Read-n-Rider
Posts: 157
Registered: ‎01-29-2007
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Re: My thoughts: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30


CathyB wrote:

Amanda-Louise:

 

  I think the person that Elias was referring to was Permony. I am hoping

that he did not mean Eva.

 

cathyB

 


Amanda-Louise wrote:

 

Chapter Twenty - Eight

 

I'm interested to read how Eva will wear widowhood?  And.....Save who?????  More questions!!!

 

-----

 

Okay - one quarter left to go and still so much unanswered!!!

 

 


 

 

I also think Elias was referring to Permony--and probably to save her FROM Eva.

 

Joan

Correspondent
MissShopaholic
Posts: 73
Registered: ‎01-22-2009

Re: My thoughts: Middle Chapters: 20 - 30

i think it was pretty clear to me that Elias meant to save Permony.  Now that he is gone, Permony is to be left with Eva and her bees.

I don't see any reason why he'd want to save EVA when during his life he tried to ignore her... (like the part in which he sticks his nose in a book ocassionally flicking a bee away). Ever notice that it always a one sided discussion rarely do they exchange words when eva is in rampage.

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vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006

where to shelf it in a bookstore

This may have been mentioned on another thread, if so, I apologize. I was wondering tho, with the varying opinions on the nature of this book being realism vs fantasy, or a confusing mixture of both, where do you all think it should be shelved in the stores like B&N to purchase? I know an author whose books wind up under romance a lot of times when altho she writes those too, she writes thrillers too, REAL suspense thillers but they often wind up under Romance with her other books. She said she wished they would put them under suspense/thrillers. I know it would get her a wider audience if they were and be better for sales too. So I am curious, where would you put this book? Fantasy? Drama? Magic? Where do you think it would get its best shot. I think that would say a lot too about how, with our varying opinions, what market this would work the best with. I love the drama in it and wanted more realistic telling of it whereas some didn't want to know that much even. But altho I loved the drama in it, for store shelving, I think I would say Fantasy. I would probably never had read it then tho, because I don't read Fantasy tho I like Science Fiction, but I can't see this under just drama given the way its told. Some books are harder to pigeonhole for shelving than others. I remember this from my librarian days even lol. So how about everyone weigh in and say where you think this book would get its best shot by saying where you would expect to find it in a book store. Maybe the powers that be, will even take heed to our suggestions. Couldn't hurt! :smileywink:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Carmenere_lady
Posts: 529
Registered: ‎11-05-2006

Re: where to shelf it in a bookstore

Good ?.  I would simply catalog this selection under fiction and literature and let the buyer decide for him or herself what it is to them.  I wouldn't want to suggest to people that it is fantasy, when for some people it may not be very real.  Drama? Some my find it comical.  If I had to categorize it somewhere specific I would recommend a subcategory like Domestic Problems.
vivico1 wrote:
So I am curious, where would you put this book? Fantasy? Drama? Magic? Where do you think it would get its best shot. I think that would say a lot too about how, with our varying opinions, what market this would work the best with. I love the drama in it and wanted more realistic telling of it whereas some didn't want to know that much even. But altho I loved the drama in it, for store shelving, I think I would say Fantasy. I would probably never had read it then tho, because I don't read Fantasy tho I like Science Fiction, but I can't see this under just drama given the way its told. Some books are harder to pigeonhole for shelving than others. I remember this from my librarian days even lol. So how about everyone weigh in and say where you think this book would get its best shot by saying where you would expect to find it in a book store. Maybe the powers that be, will even take heed to our suggestions. Couldn't hurt! :smileywink:

 

Lynda

"I think of literature.....as a vast country to the far borders of which I am journeying but will never reach."
The Uncommon Reader


"You've been running around naked in the stacks again, haven't you?"
"Um, maybe."
The Time Traveler's Wife

It is with books as with men; a very small number play a great part.
Voltaire
Distinguished Bibliophile
pen21
Posts: 3,648
Registered: ‎03-23-2009
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Re: where to shelf it in a bookstore

 

Good question!

I think it would be in the Fantasy section.

One of the first comparisons on the thread ' About Of Bees and Mist and Erick Setiawan' is to the book Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell. 

The description on B&N in the biography says 'Her first novel Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell establishes Susanna Clarke as a new fantasy writer to watch.'.

So I am thinking B&N are leaning to fantasy.

 

I do like the idea of the Domestic Problems section. There would be a lot of intriguing books in that section. And I would think a lot of biographies.:smileyvery-happy:

 

pen21


Carmenere_lady wrote:
Good ?.  I would simply catalog this selection under fiction and literature and let the buyer decide for him or herself what it is to them.  I wouldn't want to suggest to people that it is fantasy, when for some people it may not be very real.  Drama? Some my find it comical.  If I had to categorize it somewhere specific I would recommend a subcategory like Domestic Problems.
vivico1 wrote:
So I am curious, where would you put this book? Fantasy? Drama? Magic? Where do you think it would get its best shot. I think that would say a lot too about how, with our varying opinions, what market this would work the best with. I love the drama in it and wanted more realistic telling of it whereas some didn't want to know that much even. But altho I loved the drama in it, for store shelving, I think I would say Fantasy. I would probably never had read it then tho, because I don't read Fantasy tho I like Science Fiction, but I can't see this under just drama given the way its told. Some books are harder to pigeonhole for shelving than others. I remember this from my librarian days even lol. So how about everyone weigh in and say where you think this book would get its best shot by saying where you would expect to find it in a book store. Maybe the powers that be, will even take heed to our suggestions. Couldn't hurt! :smileywink:

 


 

 

Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: where to shelf it in a bookstore

Hadn't thought of Fiction and Literature. But in most of the book stores I have been in around here, that's not an actual section, its too large. There is a Literature section I have seen, but it is like the classics. All fiction and no fiction are broke down into catagories such as Mystery, Suspense Thrillers, Fantasy, Science Fiction, etc. And non fiction are broken down into categories like Bios, AutoBios, History etc. I used to read a lot of Science Fiction, especially short stories. Now I find myself more into Thrillers, Historical Fiction...read some great stories set during the civil war that I didn't think I would like but really did. They were in here in clubs, Soul Catcher and The Judas Field, both really good books. And Lisa See has me totally hooked as a fan now with her historical Fiction like Peony in Love and her one that just came out Shanghai Girls. And thrillers, oh boy give me Harlan Coben! I never read his works either until I was in his club in here, so these clubs have really opened me up to some new reads. I do like the dramas I have read too. I think all of them have been about relationships. This has been a good place to find new authors and kinds of books to read. And to make new friends!

 

Domestic Problems. That would be an interesting section. I bet it would be a big section these days too! Probably a lot of self help books tho in it too like from Dr. Phil LOL! Maybe Fantasy and then Family Drama as a subsection? 

 


Carmenere_lady wrote:
Good ?. I would simply catalog this selection under fiction and literature and let the buyer decide for him or herself what it is to them. I wouldn't want to suggest to people that it is fantasy, when for some people it may not be very real. Drama? Some my find it comical. If I had to categorize it somewhere specific I would recommend a subcategory like Domestic Problems.
vivico1 wrote:
So I am curious, where would you put this book? Fantasy? Drama? Magic? Where do you think it would get its best shot. I think that would say a lot too about how, with our varying opinions, what market this would work the best with. I love the drama in it and wanted more realistic telling of it whereas some didn't want to know that much even. But altho I loved the drama in it, for store shelving, I think I would say Fantasy. I would probably never had read it then tho, because I don't read Fantasy tho I like Science Fiction, but I can't see this under just drama given the way its told. Some books are harder to pigeonhole for shelving than others. I remember this from my librarian days even lol. So how about everyone weigh in and say where you think this book would get its best shot by saying where you would expect to find it in a book store. Maybe the powers that be, will even take heed to our suggestions. Couldn't hurt! :smileywink:

 


 

 

Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Moderator
dhaupt
Posts: 11,829
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: where to shelf it in a bookstore

This is in response to Vivian's question about where to place the book. When it first comes out it will most likely be placed in new releases in a front and center isle, but after it's been out a while I think it should go in the fantasy section.