Middle Chapters: 20 - 30

[fifenhorn]

Daniel has yet to "man up" enough to fight Eva's "bees"...he has been under the influence for far too long to be able to tell that woman to get out of his life. In turn, this makes Meridia a stronger advocate for her son - she will do EVERYTHING she can to protect her baby boy (no matter how old he gets!) from the evil of Eva.  Every once in a while, you see the flicker of an independent man in Daniel, but he's still quite far away from it all.

Meridia has to continue to fight for her family - no matter what she does, Eva is there to cut down the efforts Meridia puts into her family. Both women are quite cunning and conniving, yet Meridia does it for the protection and health of her family; Eva does it in order to maintain control of everyone's lives.

Poor Noah in all of this...such a defenseless child...no matter what his mother did to protect him, he STILL bore the brunt of Eva's wickedness...and because of it, she turned him from the Grandfather that he had adored...Elias. And once again, this whole situation broke Elias...he's had so much taken from him by Eva. One can't even begin to understand WHY he stayed with her! I think that this event, where Elias was maddened by Eva's bees and hurt Noah, is the reason Elias died...

[kboston]

Lynda,

I've thought about this too...could it be that Leah sees Ravenna as she is in that moment (a woman in mourning) and that Rebecca sees her as she could be if she wasn't mourning, a woman with a good spirit and heart?

In one of the later chapter's, I believe ch.30 (I don't have the book with me), Pilar tells Meridia that it was she who left the envelopes for Gabriel.

[cornwall]

It is almost hard for me at times to believe how cruel Eva is. The mystical elements help me to feel that she is not completely responsible/a real person?, but under these influences. The way Mr. Setian describes the scenes is so well written.

[Bedelia]

These chapters go on to prove how we all have to deal with 3 different worlds - the world of all around us, the different and often hidden world of our family and within our homes, the third world that is just our ownself, including soul, emotions, mind.  We find ourselves dealing with all three slightly differently.  This book is so great.  The blend of fantasy and realities that you could find in any life.  Dealing with the abusive Eva brought back so many memories of my own dealings with an abusive mother.  The secrets and the hiding from those outside our home of the true nature of our homelife.  Like Meridia, we think for a while it is all our fault and then we find we have been trusting our truth to a monster like Eva.  Meridia tries to fight back, but finds it a slow, hard and lonely struggle.  I am really enjoying this book.  I can see the truth behind so much of the story.........having been there myself.

Excellant writing and story.

[kiakar]

Yes, this book can certainly be at home on many shelves. This book doesn't have to worry about homelessness ever. And it will probably be on the Best Selling Shelf forever before its placed in any of the back shelves.

[Fozzie]

My favorite passage from this section of reading is:

"We won't need your help anymore, Mama," he said.  "From now on, Meridia and I will make our own way."    (pg. 230)

With this statement, the balance of power changed.  I began to look for the downfall of Eva.  Ha ha ha (said in an evil, chuckling sort of way)!

As for Eva's ability to be continually evil, I am amazed that she can come up with so many ways to be evil and find myself fascinated by her.  I love the image of her head being made of bees.  I picture her in profile, with a head made entirely of bees.

The twists and turns and surprises in the plot keep me reading.

I place a high value on originality shown in books I read.  Consequently, this book rates highly with me because it is making my mind work in new ways.

[lmpmn]

As much as I despise Eva, I have to think that some of her qualities rubbed off on Meridia and helped her to become a strong woman.  For example, how did Meridia become such a savvy businessperson?  I think she was born with high intelligence, but she got the wheeling & dealing from Eva at the marketplace.  Before she met Eva, I don't recall Meridia's character being described as manipulative or devious.  But after she met Eva, she was able to come up with ways to save money for the business by "cooking the books" (for lack of a better term).

I understand that there are elements of the story that are meant to be taken as magical--whether they are interpreted as being metaphorical or physically manifested in the character's world is up to the reader.  However, I still think we should question Meridia's ability as a narrator.  I believe Erick already mentioned this in his questions thread.  But I was thinking of this last night as I read.  Does she really see all these things?  Could she have some instances of auditory/visual hallucinations?

[Zeal]

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PiperMurphy wrote:

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tabcat wrote:

I am having just the opposite feelings about the book.  I would find the anger, pain, cruelty  inflicted by Eva, childbirth horrors etc. too difficult to read without the bees, ice, mists, roses, and other magical elements. They take the edge off of all the emotions for me and I am able to continue reading.   I don't usually enjoy family drama books.  I much prefer "escape" novels.   

So Erick's style is working well for me.

Tcat

vivico1 wrote:
I really do like the story, but I really am starting to not like the mystical way its told at times. Some of it is still good, some feel redundant and some just feel like, well I don't know what. But as I said, I do like the storyline enough to keep going with it. I want to see what happens to everyone. Its just getting hard tho. Is anyone having any feelings even similar to me on parts of the book?

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May I offer another perspective? Erick has written the book so that all the mystical elements can be interpreted as purely metaphorical, or they can be pictured as being real. I can see that if you see the bees and mist as a metaphor, then other words could be chosen to describe the same thing that wouldn't seem redundant. However, I see Eva actually surrounded by great swarms of bees. For me they have to be there, otherwise Eva has lost her evilness and the story is changed. She would just be speaking words, and I would turn into poor Elias trying to tune her out. Notice that when her bees are buzzing we aren't told what she is actually saying. The buzzing takes the place of some dialog that we may not want to read. I think that the beauty and fun of this book is that we are free to think and feel whatever we choose and whatever that may be is perfectly OK.

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Excellent Points! I think you are exactly right!

[fordmg]

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vivico1 wrote:

Hadn't thought of Fiction and Literature. But in most of the book stores I have been in around here, that's not an actual section, its too large. There is a Literature section I have seen, but it is like the classics. All fiction and no fiction are broke down into catagories such as Mystery, Suspense Thrillers, Fantasy, Science Fiction, etc. And non fiction are broken down into categories like Bios, AutoBios, History etc. I used to read a lot of Science Fiction, especially short stories. Now I find myself more into Thrillers, Historical Fiction...read some great stories set during the civil war that I didn't think I would like but really did. They were in here in clubs, Soul Catcher and The Judas Field, both really good books. And Lisa See has me totally hooked as a fan now with her historical Fiction like Peony in Love and her one that just came out Shanghai Girls. And thrillers, oh boy give me Harlan Coben! I never read his works either until I was in his club in here, so these clubs have really opened me up to some new reads. I do like the dramas I have read too. I think all of them have been about relationships. This has been a good place to find new authors and kinds of books to read. And to make new friends!

Domestic Problems. That would be an interesting section. I bet it would be a big section these days too! Probably a lot of self help books tho in it too like from Dr. Phil LOL! Maybe Fantasy and then Family Drama as a subsection? 

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Carmenere_lady wrote:

Good ?. I would simply catalog this selection under fiction and literature and let the buyer decide for him or herself what it is to them. I wouldn't want to suggest to people that it is fantasy, when for some people it may not be very real. Drama? Some my find it comical. If I had to categorize it somewhere specific I would recommend a subcategory like Domestic Problems.

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vivico1 wrote:
So I am curious, where would you put this book? Fantasy? Drama? Magic? Where do you think it would get its best shot. I think that would say a lot too about how, with our varying opinions, what market this would work the best with. I love the drama in it and wanted more realistic telling of it whereas some didn't want to know that much even. But altho I loved the drama in it, for store shelving, I think I would say Fantasy. I would probably never had read it then tho, because I don't read Fantasy tho I like Science Fiction, but I can't see this under just drama given the way its told. Some books are harder to pigeonhole for shelving than others. I remember this from my librarian days even lol. So how about everyone weigh in and say where you think this book would get its best shot by saying where you would expect to find it in a book store. Maybe the powers that be, will even take heed to our suggestions. Couldn't hurt!

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My B&N has a general fiction and literature section.  I think that is where you would find this book.

MG

[Zeal]

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vivico1 wrote:
This may have been mentioned on another thread, if so, I apologize. I was wondering tho, with the varying opinions on the nature of this book being realism vs fantasy, or a confusing mixture of both, where do you all think it should be shelved in the stores like B&N to purchase? I know an author whose books wind up under romance a lot of times when altho she writes those too, she writes thrillers too, REAL suspense thillers but they often wind up under Romance with her other books. She said she wished they would put them under suspense/thrillers. I know it would get her a wider audience if they were and be better for sales too. So I am curious, where would you put this book? Fantasy? Drama? Magic? Where do you think it would get its best shot. I think that would say a lot too about how, with our varying opinions, what market this would work the best with. I love the drama in it and wanted more realistic telling of it whereas some didn't want to know that much even. But altho I loved the drama in it, for store shelving, I think I would say Fantasy. I would probably never had read it then tho, because I don't read Fantasy tho I like Science Fiction, but I can't see this under just drama given the way its told. Some books are harder to pigeonhole for shelving than others. I remember this from my librarian days even lol. So how about everyone weigh in and say where you think this book would get its best shot by saying where you would expect to find it in a book store. Maybe the powers that be, will even take heed to our suggestions. Couldn't hurt!

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This is a really good question!  I would shelve it under Fantasy, but I was also wondering if a book ever gets shelved in more than one location.  I would also like to see it on the display that highlights inspiring new authors.  I often check this display first in order to find something new and interesting.

Aimee

[PiperMurphy]

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lmpmn wrote:

I understand that there are elements of the story that are meant to be taken as magical--whether they are interpreted as being metaphorical or physically manifested in the character's world is up to the reader.  However, I still think we should question Meridia's ability as a narrator.  I believe Erick already mentioned this in his questions thread.  But I was thinking of this last night as I read.  Does she really see all these things?  Could she have some instances of auditory/visual hallucinations?

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I'm not sure about hallucinations, but I think that she definitely misinterprets what she sees and hears, especially when she was a baby and small child. The bright light that she dreams about is something that she doesn't understand because she isn't old enough, but she carries that vision with her. The way that her parents treated her and the nurse sheltered her caused her to make her own assumptions that no one corrected. I think all this misinformation formed the foundation of the belief system she brought to adulthood. Since the foundation is faulty, her interpretations are flawed.

[libralady]

How would you describe the end of Elias' life? Is this a man who lived a satisfying life at all? What were his biggest flaws and regrets?

I think at the very end, Elias died a happy man.  The time leading up to that was obviously very tormenting for him.  In the beginning of the story, Elias was one of the characters that I liked.  He appeared to be nothing at all like Eva.  But when he put Meridia out of the house and then would not let Daniel go after her, I thought he was no better than Eva.  Later, it became apparent that it was Eva who pushed him to do the things that he did. Eva was in control of his life from the very beginning and he just gave in and resigned himself to that life.  I often saw him as weak because he would not stand up to her.  But in end, I felt sorry for him.  Eva pushed him to a place that he could not return from.  He could not live with the idea that he had done harm to his own grandson.  In the end, even though he could not move or do anything for himself, I think he died a peaceful death.  He died with images of beautiful, peaceful places in his mind and freedom from Eva.

[Lil_Irish_Lass]

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Fozzie wrote:

My favorite passage from this section of reading is:

"We won't need your help anymore, Mama," he said.  "From now on, Meridia and I will make our own way."    (pg. 230)

With this statement, the balance of power changed.  I began to look for the downfall of Eva.  Ha ha ha (said in an evil, chuckling sort of way)!

As for Eva's ability to be continually evil, I am amazed that she can come up with so many ways to be evil and find myself fascinated by her.  I love the image of her head being made of bees.  I picture her in profile, with a head made entirely of bees.

The twists and turns and surprises in the plot keep me reading.

I place a high value on originality shown in books I read.  Consequently, this book rates highly with me because it is making my mind work in new ways.

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I see Eva just like Medusa, but instead of snakes she has bees, which are just as deadly and while they may not turn you into stone they will transform your body and mind that your true personality, your soul might as well be a stone figure in a cave.

[Lil_Irish_Lass]

I think that by the end of the novel, Noah will have surprised all of us. There's hints throughout the story so far that suggest he is wise beyond his years and has the inner strength from both of his grandmothers... as much as I dislike Eva I have to admit that she is a very strong, determined woman and if her energy was focused on good not evil she'd be a super hero.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what Setiawan does with this character more than any of the others.

[Deltadawn]

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Zeal wrote:

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PiperMurphy wrote:

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May I offer another perspective? Erick has written the book so that all the mystical elements can be interpreted as purely metaphorical, or they can be pictured as being real. I can see that if you see the bees and mist as a metaphor, then other words could be chosen to describe the same thing that wouldn't seem redundant. However, I see Eva actually surrounded by great swarms of bees. For me they have to be there, otherwise Eva has lost her evilness and the story is changed. She would just be speaking words, and I would turn into poor Elias trying to tune her out. Notice that when her bees are buzzing we aren't told what she is actually saying. The buzzing takes the place of some dialog that we may not want to read. I think that the beauty and fun of this book is that we are free to think and feel whatever we choose and whatever that may be is perfectly OK.

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Excellent Points! I think you are exactly right!

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Me too! I think you hit the nail on the head!

[Deltadawn]

On one hand, Daniel remains steadfast in his different roles. He attempts to be unfailingly loyal to those he loves. Unfortunately, because of the way his mother is, this proves to be a difficult and often impossible balancing act. As a result, his relationships suffer (drastically).

Meridia has become a formiddable character - she has become stronger in all of her relationships. she has also become more confident.

Gabriel & Ravenna's love life is a tragic story.  Their love remained alive, though they were unable to express it in a healthy manner.

The end of Elias' life is very tragic as well. I think he did have glimpses of satisfaction in  his life - his relationship with Permony, his love of his son and grandson. However, these were all overshadowed by his inability to stand up for himself and his loved ones against Eva and her bees.

Eva changes her tactics as is necessary to suit her own purposes. I was suprised at her grief when Elias died. I guess there is a heart somewhere inside of her, though it is definitely twisted....

Message Edited by Deltadawn on 06-18-2009 05:30 PM

[goingeast]

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kiakar wrote:
Yes, this book can certainly be at home on many shelves. This book doesn't have to worry about homelessness ever. And it will probably be on the Best Selling Shelf forever before its placed in any of the back shelves.

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Yes kiakar, I agree with you totally.  In my home library this is on the shelf with "books to be read again" and "books I want my kids to read." 

goingeast

[Deltadawn]

Great points!

[DSaff]

I agree with you, Aimee. You can find some real gems in any section highlighting new authors. I also think this belongs in the fantasy/supernatural section.

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Zeal wrote:

This is a really good question!  I would shelve it under Fantasy, but I was also wondering if a book ever gets shelved in more than one location.  I would also like to see it on the display that highlights inspiring new authors.  I often check this display first in order to find something new and interesting.

Aimee

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[vivico1]

Good points, both of you.

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DSaff wrote:

I agree with you, Aimee. You can find some real gems in any section highlighting new authors. I also think this belongs in the fantasy/supernatural section.

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Zeal wrote:

This is a really good question! I would shelve it under Fantasy, but I was also wondering if a book ever gets shelved in more than one location. I would also like to see it on the display that highlights inspiring new authors. I often check this display first in order to find something new and interesting.

Aimee

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