Middle Chapters: 20 - 30

[AnnJE]

Eva is an evil woman and I don't see anything good about her at all.   I can't imagine an event where a "good side" of her emerges.

[ImBookingIt]

The book still hasn't recaptured the magic I felt in the first section we read, but I'm still liking it quite a bit.

I really was thrown by these chapters.  Mostly in a good way, I think!

After thinking about it, I really like how everything (or really, everyone) keeps changing.

I like the comparisons and contrasts between Elias and Gabriel.  We never really knew either man, because their lives were so much defined and hidden by their wives.

I don't think getting to know Gabriel helped me like him any better.  I'm not even sure that revealing his secrets let me know him any more.  His behaviour still doesn't make sense to me, even understanding that it was truely beyond reason.

I am more forgiving of Elias and of Ravenna.  Elias seemed to ignore his wife's horrendous behaviour, then tried to quietly right matters as best he could.  It often was very little, but he did try to do right.  Ravenna's behaviour when Meridia was young is close to unforgivable, but her later behaviour was much more balanced.

Although I wasn't expecting Pilar's revalation, I didn't find it surprising.  I'm not sure that anything would have surprised me about her, since we knew so little about her.  She didn't change, although the reader's perceptions certainly did.

Permony's changes were mostly those of a young girl growing up. Perhaps it is surprising  that she grew up relatively undamaged, but then again, Meridia did as far as we can tell.

Malin's changes were perhaps the least believable to me.  It will be interesting to see where she goes next.

I'm looking forward to finishing the book later this week!

[kaylami]

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chris227 wrote:

I also questioned why Leah sees Ravenna in "her stiff black cloak...face veiled, shoulders erect..." and Rebecca sees "the same woman but in a billowing white dress, head bared...".  This is just more of the magic that comes into play in the book.  I have two thoughts, first, that this is just a way of representing the two different sides of Ravenna, the one that "forgets" and locks herself in her kitchen, and the actual caring mother that she should have been and seems to try to be in parts of this section.  The second is that maybe the two women have very different feelings about Ravenna.  Perhaps Leah sees Ravenna as almost evil and harsh while Rebecca sees her as a good mother coming to help her daughter and see her grandson - both true in some ways.

I've been pondering the whole black vs. white thing...your comment really helped me.  I like your second thought about how the two women have different views of Ravenna.  That was an ah-ha for me.   Thanks!

[kaylami]

How about Meridia in each of her roles? 

Meridia is so much stronger as a mother than she has been in her other roles.  It has also allowed her to see her parents better.  I think that happens to a lot of us after we become parents.  We begin to understand how our own parents feel and why they do what they do.

Have you re-evaluated the love relationship between Gabriel and Ravenna?  

Their relationship just shows how anger and bitterness over sometimes small matters can fester and cloud our judgement.  When faced with losing someone, as Ravenna was, you remember what's important and realize just how much you love someone and the past isn't so important anymore.

How would you describe the end of Elias' life? Is this a man who lived a satisfying life at all? What were his biggest flaws and regrets? 

 I would describe the end of Elias' life as just plain sad.  I think the most satisfying aspect of his life is that he had a sweet daughter in Permony.  I'd say his biggest regret was not standing up to Eva more and letter her bees tear him down to nothing and in the end, killing him.  I believe he was talking about Eva when he said "Save her".  Save her from herself.  Her bitterness, lies and jealous actions will eventually seperate her children from her and leave her a lonely woman.

[bookloverjb85]

I believe Meridia becomes stronger in each role that she takes on.  She has learned to take care of herself when she was living with her parents, and even more so when she went to live with Daniel and his family.  Now living with Daniel and their son she has taken on an even bigger role to stand up for HER little family.  She has to protect her son and her home from Eva and anything else trying to rip the family apart.

I definitely never expected Pilar to be the mistress, I never saw it coming.  Now that I know that however, I realize that there were definitely signs.  People were talking about her (not just Eva), and it seemed like there were other hints along the way.

Gabriel and Ravenna's love relationship is one of comfort and when the pact between them is broken there is a consequence.  Meridia overheard the "conversation" between her mother and father about how they had gotten to this point.  It turns out that this is not a real conversation but I believe that they can hear each other's thoughts.  I think that Meridia links into this somehow and realizes that her parents have loved each other all along and that Gabriel does care about her too.  I believe this is a way for her to have some closure with him and to not always be wondering about if he cared about her or not.

I wanted to mention that I now have a theory about Hannah.  Pilar and Patina have "disappeared" and Meridia seems to be the only one who has noticed this.  The two have become like ghosts and are transparent, but Meridia seems to be able to see them.  I wonder if Hannah is the same way.  Is she someone in Meridia's life who has been "pushed aside" and is now transparent too?  I'm not sure who she would be, maybe a sister Meridia doesn't know about...  I would like to hear anyone else's thoughts on this.

[bookloverjb85]

Another thought that I had after I posted this...

Could Hannah be the transparent figure of Meridia's nurse?  Before Patina becomes transparent she gets younger.  Could it be possible that Nurse got younger once she was kicked out of the house?  Hannah has red hair, I don't recall what color Nurse's hair was, if it said at all.  I will have to go back into the book and look.

[Carmenere_lady]

I'm beginning to think Daniel is as wishy washy as the day is long.  To paraphrase a popular song, he's hot then he's cold, he's yes then he's no, he's up then he's down.  I feel that he is not supportive of Meridia when she needs it most, like helping to treat her fathers illness.  He's selfish and still unsure of Meridia's love for him.  I think Noah favors Daniel in the selfish dept.

By the way, I liked the responses on the black and white issue, I had the same thoughts.  But then I thought too that there's more to people than black or white.  I think most people are grey and you really can't see that in most people until you get to know them.  Visuals aren't everything.

[Carmenere_lady]

I like this idea booklover. I never gave that any thought.

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bookloverjb85 wrote:

Another thought that I had after I posted this...

Could Hannah be the transparent figure of Meridia's nurse?  Before Patina becomes transparent she gets younger.  Could it be possible that Nurse got younger once she was kicked out of the house?  Hannah has red hair, I don't recall what color Nurse's hair was, if it said at all.  I will have to go back into the book and look.

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[eadieburke]

I don't know why but everytime I wonder about Hannah, my thoughts keep going to the fact that she appeared just after Meridia's nurse disappeared. Now that you have mentioned the fact of the other disapperances, it has jarred my brain again about maybe the nurse has returned as Hannah. Just a thought!

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bookloverjb85 wrote:

I wanted to mention that I now have a theory about Hannah.  Pilar and Patina have "disappeared" and Meridia seems to be the only one who has noticed this.  The two have become like ghosts and are transparent, but Meridia seems to be able to see them.  I wonder if Hannah is the same way.  Is she someone in Meridia's life who has been "pushed aside" and is now transparent too?  I'm not sure who she would be, maybe a sister Meridia doesn't know about...  I would like to hear anyone else's thoughts on this.

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[pen21]

Thank You. I couldn't quite figure out what it was with Daniel.

I know that song and you are so right. It's one thing that he is young and newly married and a father. But on the other hand Daniel is a businessman with a wife and child.

Selfish is a good adjective.

I also agree on the black and white visions of Ravenna. There has been several posts on this. It has always intrigued me that people can have such diverse views of one individual.

pen21

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Carmenere_lady wrote:

I'm beginning to think Daniel is as wishy washy as the day is long.  To paraphrase a popular song, he's hot then he's cold, he's yes then he's no, he's up then he's down.  I feel that he is not supportive of Meridia when she needs it most, like helping to treat her fathers illness.  He's selfish and still unsure of Meridia's love for him.  I think Noah favors Daniel in the selfish dept.

By the way, I liked the responses on the black and white issue, I had the same thoughts.  But then I thought too that there's more to people than black or white.  I think most people are grey and you really can't see that in most people until you get to know them.  Visuals aren't everything.

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[dhaupt]

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love2readSZ wrote:

I am also confused about whether I like this book or not or whether the first look process is the problem.  This is the 2nd flb that I have read, Deliverance Dane being the first.  Due to commitments I was not able to devote the time needed for discussion on Deliverance Dane but I did enjoy the book and would recommend it to anyone.  This time I have been holding to the reading schedule, reading posts and commenting.  I may be making it harder than I need to.

As far as the book goes, I find the symbolism and metaphors a bit much to delve through.  This is a different genre of book for me so that may be my problem but  I will continue with the book and the flb process to try to determine what are my issues.

Does anyone else have these issues?

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I don't have issues with the symbolism or metaphors, but in regards to keeping with the reading schedule I have read the entire book on previous reads as well as keeping with the schedule on others. This book may be harder for some readers to keep with the schedule because of the symbolism. It's hard to put a book like this down for an entire week and remember all the nuances that went on previously. So maybe this time you or anyone would find it easier to read the whole book and just be mindful of your answers to not include spoilers.  

[nfam]

Eva seems so completely evil, it's hard to believe we'll see anything good about her. In face, Eva is almost too evil, more of caricature than a character. I was delighted to see Noah finally breaking the spell she had him under.

I can't say the resolution between Ravenna and Gabriel surprised me. They seemed to be drawn to each other and yet unable to communicate. What was totally surprising was to find Pilar in the mix. It was almost a deus ex machina solution. My preference would have been to have his mistress be another character. The liaison with Pilar just didn't ring for me.

[mamawli]

The crescent birthmark appears to be mentioned bout more than one of the characters.  I can't help but wonder if there is a family relationship surrounding more than one of these characters.  I hope that  Erick ties this together in the ending chapters.  Somehow, I think Eva or Elias are related to Patina and or Pilar in more ways than we have seen so far.

Eva is such a despicable individual, I applaud Mr.. Setiawan for being able to convey all of this conniving within her personality.

[nfam]

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I really do like the story, but I really am starting to not like the mystical way its told at times. Some of it is still good, some feel redundant and some just feel like, well I don't know what. But as I said, I do like the storyline enough to keep going with it. I want to see what happens to everyone. Its just getting hard tho. Is anyone having any feelings even similar to me on parts of the book?

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I have to agree with vivico1. The mystical treatment of emotions is becoming annoying. Eva as a completely evil character is also annoying. Personally, I think the book is going on too long. If it were a novella, I would have time to get annoyed with the presentation. I like fantasy and paranormal books, but then the world becomes almost a character. Here we have a traditional town, the only real magic seems to be Eva with her bees and the mists that surround Meridia's parents. 

 I can definitely say, that I'm getting tired of the book. The plot isn't carrying the story when we have all these annoying manifestations. 

[Sunltcloud]

Great observation, Carmenere lady,

It is that broad, general metaphor again, that skims the surface without probing deeper. The fairytale approach. 

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Carmenere_lady wrote in part:

By the way, I liked the responses on the black and white issue, I had the same thoughts.  But then I thought too that there's more to people than black or white.  I think most people are grey and you really can't see that in most people until you get to know them.  Visuals aren't everything.

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[love2readSZ]

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dhaupt wrote:

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love2readSZ wrote:

I am also confused about whether I like this book or not or whether the first look process is the problem.  This is the 2nd flb that I have read, Deliverance Dane being the first.  Due to commitments I was not able to devote the time needed for discussion on Deliverance Dane but I did enjoy the book and would recommend it to anyone.  This time I have been holding to the reading schedule, reading posts and commenting.  I may be making it harder than I need to.

As far as the book goes, I find the symbolism and metaphors a bit much to delve through.  This is a different genre of book for me so that may be my problem but  I will continue with the book and the flb process to try to determine what are my issues.

Does anyone else have these issues?

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I don't have issues with the symbolism or metaphors, but in regards to keeping with the reading schedule I have read the entire book on previous reads as well as keeping with the schedule on others. This book may be harder for some readers to keep with the schedule because of the symbolism. It's hard to put a book like this down for an entire week and remember all the nuances that went on previously. So maybe this time you or anyone would find it easier to read the whole book and just be mindful of your answers to not include spoilers.  

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Debbie,  I think that you might be right about the symbolism in the book and the need to read this book without stopping for the week.  Susanne

[fordmg]

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DSaff wrote:

This section of the book had a lot of emotional conflict swirling around with more questions answered for me. Daniel and Meridia almost lost each other after Noah's birth. What was interesting was how Erick portrayed Meridia just as if she were you or me. Haven't we all been in situations where we knew we were doing or saying something wrong or off, yet were powerless to change it? That is how I felt with Meridia. She kept wondering if her actions were the same as Ravenna's had been, and if this was what had driven the wedge between her parents. Thankfully, Meridia snapped out of her "funk" before her marriage was irrepairably destroyed.

Eva showed herself to be more of a witch by trying to bewitch Noah and turn him on Meridia. (I am anxious to see what her true power is because the men seem to be oblivious to her charms.) It is inexcusable for an adult to use a child as a pawn at any time. In her hatred for Meridia, Eva tried to take the only thing that seemed out of her reach. She could have really hurt Noah when she caused Elias to lose it. She could have done great damage to Noah if she had managed to get him into her house. The bird definitely fits into the magic here, and I was glad to see it destroyed. At first I thought that Ravenna had destroyed it, but now I am thinking it was Gabriel.

I also found Eva's actions at Malin's wedding unforgiveable. Cutting Permony out was aweful, and no one stood up to her. How can they all continue to let her control them? They have seen the damage she has done. Again, Eva seems to win. Again Permony seems to lose.

I was sorry to see Elias die because I thought he was finally breaking away from Eva's control. But, when she regained that control and he hurt Noah, something inside Elias died. I think he only held together for a while hoping to atone for his lifetime of letting her get to him. In the end, Elias died a broken, lonely man. His words to Meridia, "save her" (pg. 257) I thought immediately were meant for Permony. What does Elias think Eva will do to her now that he is gone?

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I am having SOOO much trouble with the character of Eva.   This story reads sort of like a myth or fairy tail, and there always need to be the "wicked step mother"  but this is a long story and to sustain this charter and the wickedness and the fact that others have no combat against her is a little over the top.  Eva is starting to get in the way of the story now.  I will start reading the last part tomorrow, I hope the ending is worth all this torment.

MG

[BDonnelly]

I thought the beginning of the resolution of the relationship between Gabriel and Ravenna was very interesting and foreshadowed by the name of the street - Monarch.  I remember from two weeks ago talking about how it could refer to transformations.  And, we even have the cocoon of ice!    I am waiting anxiously to see what happens next.

Eva is still evil and I don't have much faith that she will change but I do wonder if it was Eva that Elias referred to on his death bed.  We've already seen one couple that appears to be good and evil _Ravenna and Gabriel.  Will we see another one?  And, Elias is a really good man.  Could Eva have fooled him that much or did something change her so much?

[PiperMurphy]

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rkubie wrote:

Please use use one of these or one of your own questions to start discussing our current chapters!

How are you thoughts about each of the characters shifting? Pilar, Gabriel, Ravenna, and others?

Have you re-evaluated the love relationship between Gabriel and Ravenna?

How would you describe the end of Elias' life? Is this a man who lived a satisfying life at all? What were his biggest flaws and regrets?

How have Eva's tactics changed so far in the novel? Is there a chance we will see a better side of this woman?

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We're starting to get some answers now from this section. Meridia has a new perspective on her parents marriage based on her own experiences as a new mother. Daniel seems to have gained some insight from his own parents marriage and may have grown a backbone. Poor Gabriel is a man on the outside looking in. He wants to be included, but either doesn't know how or is afraid to try. I like how Leah sees Ravenna dressed in stiff black while Rebecca sees her in billowing white. They see both sides of her. Elias is tragic. He found happiness with Permony and Noah, but he allowed Eva to beat him down until he couldn't stand the person that he had become. I think that he finally realized the person that he had become following the incident with Noah. Instead of finally standing up to Eva, he was defeated. Eva's accusations toward the relationship between Elias and Permony are monsterous. I keep thinking that there has to be more to her, that we will find out what caused her to be the way she is and she will finally be redeemed. But she just keeps getting more and more evil. I have a feeling that there is a HUGE battle coming in the end.

[JaneM]

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eadieburke wrote:

I don't know why but everytime I wonder about Hannah, my thoughts keep going to the fact that she appeared just after Meridia's nurse disappeared. Now that you have mentioned the fact of the other disapperances, it has jarred my brain again about maybe the nurse has returned as Hannah. Just a thought!

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bookloverjb85 wrote:

I wanted to mention that I now have a theory about Hannah.  Pilar and Patina have "disappeared" and Meridia seems to be the only one who has noticed this.  The two have become like ghosts and are transparent, but Meridia seems to be able to see them.  I wonder if Hannah is the same way.  Is she someone in Meridia's life who has been "pushed aside" and is now transparent too?  I'm not sure who she would be, maybe a sister Meridia doesn't know about...  I would like to hear anyone else's thoughts on this.

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I don't think that Hannah is a younger version of the nurse as their personalities are totally different.  The nurse was very overprotective and keeping Meridia away from the world, while Hannah was leading Meridia into the world and exposing her to its beauty and joys.