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Jo6353
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Re: Community Room


fordmg wrote:

debbaker wrote:

I read Wicked a couple of years ago. Not an easy book to get into. I am glad I read it and moved on. It was enjoyable when I stuck with it. Definitely not my cup of tea.

 

Deb


 

I wasn't crazy about Wicked either.  It was like an alternate history (fairy tale).  Not interested in trying any of his other books.

MG


I haven't read Wicked yet but I did see the play and it was fantastic! Jo

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kolsonheld
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Re: Community Room

I am also a fan of Jon Krakauer. Into Thin Air is among my favorites, and I also enjoyed Under the Banner of Heaven
Karin
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Goochy627
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Re: Community Room

Hi Lucyintheoc,

      I read the Shack . I thought it was wonderful it put a new spin on how God,Jesus and the Holy Sprit are seen. I thought it was so good I sent a copy to everyone I know. I high recommend reading this book.:smileywink:

CAG
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CAG
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Re: Community Room


kolsonheld wrote:
I am also a fan of Jon Krakauer. Into Thin Air is among my favorites, and I also enjoyed Under the Banner of Heaven

 

I like him too. Did you read "Into The Wild"?
CAG
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thewanderingjew
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Re: Community Room

i read into thin air and into the wild and enjoyed the both. i have under the banner of heaven on my bookshelf tbr.

i just read the guernsey literary and potato peel pie society, by shaffer and barrows, and i loved it. i also just read people of the book by geraldine brooks and because they hate by brigitte gabriel.

i am reading the meaning of night by cox, the believers by heller and the post american world by zakaria for b & n, or at least i am trying to...

twj

i

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Carmenere_lady
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Re: Community Room

[ Edited ]

Although I've only read Under the Banner of Heaven I think Krakauer has a wonderful writing style and I look forward to reading more of him.  It would be terrific to have him as a B&N guest author (hint, hint).  :smileywink:

 

As for Wicked, I bought the book several months ago but have not gotten around to read it.  To hear all of your reactions to the book, well, now  I'm a little bit pessimistic about reading it .  I'm just trying to find the right frame of mind to read it.


CAG wrote:


kolsonheld wrote:
I am also a fan of Jon Krakauer. Into Thin Air is among my favorites, and I also enjoyed Under the Banner of Heaven

 

I like him too. Did you read "Into The Wild"?

 

 


 

Message Edited by Carmenere_lady on 10-09-2008 09:38 PM
Lynda

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"Um, maybe."
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It is with books as with men; a very small number play a great part.
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LucyintheOC
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Re: Community Room

Hi Goochy627,

Thanks for telling me how much you enjoyed The Shack. Based on your post and the original recommendation to read it, I will definitely make time for it in my reading schedule now rather than just putting it on my "to read sometime" list. I might even bring it up at my in-person B&N book club and see if we want to read it as one of our selections. It sounds like a subject that the group members would appreciate and very much like reading. 

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krb2g
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Re: Community Room

I got The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society out of the library yesterday afternoon, and finished it yesterday night. I could not put it down. It handled what could be a very sad story with dignity, grace, and a wonderful spirit. I loved the characters, not just because they love books so much, but because they are loving, generous, and strong in the face of adversity. I was also impressed that Ms. Shaffer and Ms. Barrows handled the epistolary form so deftly. I am so happy I read this book.

thewanderingjew wrote:

i just read the guernsey literary and potato peel pie society, by shaffer and barrows, and i loved it.


 

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wildatheart
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Re: Community Room

I also read that book and loved it. I just finished The Reluctant Fundamentalist and really enjoyed that. I skimmed Inside the Kingdom - didn't like it very much - I thought the writing was too elementary. I also enjoyed Steve Martin's book Born Standing Up. If you are from the era of the beginning of Saturday Night Live, you will love his book.

 

Allene

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Everyman
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Re: Community Room

I have moved up to the second person in the queue in our library, so I'll be reading it sometime in the not too far distant future.  Nice to know that others are finding it worthwhile.


krb2g wrote:
I got The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society out of the library yesterday afternoon, and finished it yesterday night. I could not put it down. It handled what could be a very sad story with dignity, grace, and a wonderful spirit. I loved the characters, not just because they love books so much, but because they are loving, generous, and strong in the face of adversity. I was also impressed that Ms. Shaffer and Ms. Barrows handled the epistolary form so deftly. I am so happy I read this book.

thewanderingjew wrote:

i just read the guernsey literary and potato peel pie society, by shaffer and barrows, and i loved it.


 


 

 

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
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thewanderingjew
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Re: Community Room

everyman, i think you will love the book. the characters are well developed, have basic values, most truly care about each other and their warmth seems to allow them to abide the cruelties and narrow mindedness of the few with grace and charm. they are open minded and seem to accept people for their true worth without dwelling on their negative qualities as we are so wont to do, lately.

i found myself wishing i could live there now. how nice it would be to escape the bitterness and unfair finger pointing that is taking place today, in this election cycle. in the financial environment we are currently facing here and everywhere wouldn't the simple life seem like the ideal? well, i know i am pollyanna, as you said before, and there is no utopia, but there has to be a better way. 

twj

 

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Re: Community Room

I know a few people here don't agree, and it certainly wasn't perfect (what age ever is?), but yes, there was a better way, and was the 1950s here in the USA. 

 

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

everyman, i think you will love the book. the characters are well developed, have basic values, most truly care about each other and their warmth seems to allow them to abide the cruelties and narrow mindedness of the few with grace and charm. they are open minded and seem to accept people for their true worth without dwelling on their negative qualities as we are so wont to do, lately.

i found myself wishing i could live there now. how nice it would be to escape the bitterness and unfair finger pointing that is taking place today, in this election cycle. in the financial environment we are currently facing here and everywhere wouldn't the simple life seem like the ideal? well, i know i am pollyanna, as you said before, and there is no utopia, but there has to be a better way. 

twj

 


 

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
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thewanderingjew
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Re: Community Room

i loved the 50's. we had strong moral values, clearly defined limits, we respected our marriage vows, we believed that just one person could bring about change, we had hope, drugs were not an issue, we had respect for education and teachers as professionals, we dressed appropriately, our achievement was rewarded, excellence was respected, we had a sense of personal responsibility, respect for the rights of others was taught in school, we had the feeling that we had actual opportunity to achieve real success if we tried hard enough, we respected innocence and modesty, we loved our country and wanted to serve it, we could leave our doors unlocked and i came home to a parent who was eagerly waiting to greet me and find out how my day was and what i had to do for homework, i had homecooked meals and eating out was a treat, etc. etc.
oh yes, there were air raid drills, the cold war, few cars and no electronic toys to speak of, but we had real fun. friends of all ages played together in the street. we played stoop ball, punch ball, rollerskating, hit the penny, johnny on a pony, skully, etc. it seemed like a much simpler more peaceful time without the need for expensive toys. we communicated. we took walks. we visited neighbors. family values were very strong. at least, that is how i saw it then. my memories of then are always of me sitting on my porch in  bright sunshine with the rose of sharon my dad tended in our postage stamp garden blooming before me. i see myself working on a simple project that my mom created for me like crocheting a purse. i didn't live in a fancy house but no one knew we weren't rich. tv's were rare as was more than one phone. we had tenants. it was a happy time for me and i felt truly loved by my parents, siblings and relatives who lived nearby. what are your memories?

twj


Everyman wrote:

I know a few people here don't agree, and it certainly wasn't perfect (what age ever is?), but yes, there was a better way, and was the 1950s here in the USA. 

 

 


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chana56
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Re: Community Room


thewanderingjew wrote:

i loved the 50's. we had strong moral values, clearly defined limits, we respected our marriage vows, we believed that just one person could bring about change, we had hope, drugs were not an issue, we had respect for education and teachers as professionals, we dressed appropriately, our achievement was rewarded, excellence was respected, we had a sense of personal responsibility, respect for the rights of others was taught in school, we had the feeling that we had actual opportunity to achieve real success if we tried hard enough, we respected innocence and modesty, we loved our country and wanted to serve it, we could leave our doors unlocked and i came home to a parent who was eagerly waiting to greet me and find out how my day was and what i had to do for homework, i had homecooked meals and eating out was a treat, etc. etc.
oh yes, there were air raid drills, the cold war, few cars and no electronic toys to speak of, but we had real fun. friends of all ages played together in the street. we played stoop ball, punch ball, rollerskating, hit the penny, johnny on a pony, skully, etc. it seemed like a much simpler more peaceful time without the need for expensive toys. we communicated. we took walks. we visited neighbors. family values were very strong. at least, that is how i saw it then. my memories of then are always of me sitting on my porch in  bright sunshine with the rose of sharon my dad tended in our postage stamp garden blooming before me. i see myself working on a simple project that my mom created for me like crocheting a purse. i didn't live in a fancy house but no one knew we weren't rich. tv's were rare as was more than one phone. we had tenants. it was a happy time for me and i felt truly loved by my parents, siblings and relatives who lived nearby. what are your memories?

twj


Everyman wrote:

I know a few people here don't agree, and it certainly wasn't perfect (what age ever is?), but yes, there was a better way, and was the 1950s here in the USA. 

 

 



 

Your post stirred up incredibly strong emotions as I read it.   I lived in the US during the 50s.  I remember many of the things you mentioned, the friends, the neighborhood, the games, the stay-at-home parent, the defined limits.  But I experienced those “moral values” as extremely rigid and intolerant of difference.  Life was just like the idyllic TV sit-com for some, but for the vast majority it was not.   In the 50s, there was battering, but it was hidden, condoned by society mores or simply not believed.  There was abuse, but it was utterly taboo to even discuss.  Women were committed to mental institutions for not conforming to the norm.  Let’s not even talk about gays and lesbians.  Walt Disney did not allow people of color to work at Disneyland, it was not acceptable.  I lived in an environment where people were constantly trying to convert me, and many times, for no reason that I ever understood, I was spit upon and called a “dirty Jew”, I was told I had no sense of humor for not laughing at Hitler jokes.  There were very very few people in my schools who were not white, and the attitude was that those few had better damn well behave white!   Blend in, deny your own heritage and conform.  My parents chose to move instead of being neighborhood outcasts for not being Christian.  I was, indeed, taught to love my country, but never blindly.  

 In many ways, I think the innocence of the 50s was a desperate attempt by people to blot out the atrocities of the 30s and 40s.  People just did not want to face the reality of what they had seen or experienced.  I believe it is no accident that we, the children born in the shadow of Hiroshima and Auschwitz, could not maintain the fantasy of innocence, and became the generation that rebelled against the denial and the complacency, in the universities and in the streets, and turned the country on its ear, for a while at least.  

Many of us are no longer rebels, we have blended into the establishment, but we made a difference.  Diversity is no longer a dirty word.   

 

Yes, today the social problems such as drug abuse and crime are horrifying, terrifying as a parent, and more prevalent, but today we have to deal with them, no longer pretending they simply don’t exist.   

 

Whew…..sorry for the soapbox, I told you this pushed my buttons.   

Chana

"We don't stop laughing when we get old, we get old when we stop laughing - Anonymous
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Re: Community Room

You are both right.  The 50s were a time when social values and norms were more valued over individual rights.  Today, we have a society where individual rights are paramount, and social values are largely sneered at.  Which era you prefer depends on which value you cherish most.  

 

Kennedy's "Ask not" speech resonated with our generation.  Today's generation would just laugh at it.  

 

Rebellion and disruption in school them were dealt with both by the administration (including the occasional corporal discipline when called for) and then reinforced at home.  Today, rebellion and disruption in school are protected by the ACLU, and if any teacher dares even lay a hand on a student they'll be fired or sued or both.  

 

We have yet to find a balance between the two that will give us a healthy society with adequate individual liberties.  

 


chana56 wrote:

thewanderingjew wrote:

i loved the 50's. we had strong moral values, clearly defined limits, we respected our marriage vows, we believed that just one person could bring about change, we had hope, drugs were not an issue, we had respect for education and teachers as professionals, we dressed appropriately, our achievement was rewarded, excellence was respected, we had a sense of personal responsibility, respect for the rights of others was taught in school, we had the feeling that we had actual opportunity to achieve real success if we tried hard enough, we respected innocence and modesty, we loved our country and wanted to serve it, we could leave our doors unlocked and i came home to a parent who was eagerly waiting to greet me and find out how my day was and what i had to do for homework, i had homecooked meals and eating out was a treat, etc. etc.
oh yes, there were air raid drills, the cold war, few cars and no electronic toys to speak of, but we had real fun. friends of all ages played together in the street. we played stoop ball, punch ball, rollerskating, hit the penny, johnny on a pony, skully, etc. it seemed like a much simpler more peaceful time without the need for expensive toys. we communicated. we took walks. we visited neighbors. family values were very strong. at least, that is how i saw it then. my memories of then are always of me sitting on my porch in  bright sunshine with the rose of sharon my dad tended in our postage stamp garden blooming before me. i see myself working on a simple project that my mom created for me like crocheting a purse. i didn't live in a fancy house but no one knew we weren't rich. tv's were rare as was more than one phone. we had tenants. it was a happy time for me and i felt truly loved by my parents, siblings and relatives who lived nearby. what are your memories?

twj


Everyman wrote:

I know a few people here don't agree, and it certainly wasn't perfect (what age ever is?), but yes, there was a better way, and was the 1950s here in the USA. 

 

 



 

Your post stirred up incredibly strong emotions as I read it.   I lived in the US during the 50s.  I remember many of the things you mentioned, the friends, the neighborhood, the games, the stay-at-home parent, the defined limits.  But I experienced those “moral values” as extremely rigid and intolerant of difference.  Life was just like the idyllic TV sit-com for some, but for the vast majority it was not.   In the 50s, there was battering, but it was hidden, condoned by society mores or simply not believed.  There was abuse, but it was utterly taboo to even discuss.  Women were committed to mental institutions for not conforming to the norm.  Let’s not even talk about gays and lesbians.  Walt Disney did not allow people of color to work at Disneyland, it was not acceptable.  I lived in an environment where people were constantly trying to convert me, and many times, for no reason that I ever understood, I was spit upon and called a “dirty Jew”, I was told I had no sense of humor for not laughing at Hitler jokes.  There were very very few people in my schools who were not white, and the attitude was that those few had better damn well behave white!   Blend in, deny your own heritage and conform.  My parents chose to move instead of being neighborhood outcasts for not being Christian.  I was, indeed, taught to love my country, but never blindly.  

 

 In many ways, I think the innocence of the 50s was a desperate attempt by people to blot out the atrocities of the 30s and 40s.  People just did not want to face the reality of what they had seen or experienced.  I believe it is no accident that we, the children born in the shadow of Hiroshima and Auschwitz, could not maintain the fantasy of innocence, and became the generation that rebelled against the denial and the complacency, in the universities and in the streets, and turned the country on its ear, for a while at least.  

 

Many of us are no longer rebels, we have blended into the establishment, but we made a difference.  Diversity is no longer a dirty word.   

 

Yes, today the social problems such as drug abuse and crime are horrifying, terrifying as a parent, and more prevalent, but today we have to deal with them, no longer pretending they simply don’t exist.   

 

Whew…..sorry for the soapbox, I told you this pushed my buttons.   


 

 

 

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
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chana56
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Re: Community Room


Everyman wrote:

You are both right.  The 50s were a time when social values and norms were more valued over individual rights.  Today, we have a society where individual rights are paramount, and social values are largely sneered at.  Which era you prefer depends on which value you cherish most.  

 

Kennedy's "Ask not" speech resonated with our generation.  Today's generation would just laugh at it.  

 

Rebellion and disruption in school them were dealt with both by the administration (including the occasional corporal discipline when called for) and then reinforced at home.  Today, rebellion and disruption in school are protected by the ACLU, and if any teacher dares even lay a hand on a student they'll be fired or sued or both.  

 

We have yet to find a balance between the two that will give us a healthy society with adequate individual liberties.  

 

 


Well put, Everyman, thank you.  Even though Rosa Parks was an activist for workers' rights and racial equality, she saw her own action in 1955 as a private citizen "tired of giving in".   Individual right or social norm?

 

Over 50 years, from HUAC mentality to ACLU mentality (with a little SDS mentality in the middle).  All could be seen as healthy in some way.  Why must people go to the extremes?

 

Oooh, I definitely see this as a discussion thread once we get into the book itself !!!  :smileyvery-happy:

Chana

"We don't stop laughing when we get old, we get old when we stop laughing - Anonymous
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thewanderingjew
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Re: Community Room

as the song says, maybe we should accentuate the positive of those times and fix what was negative instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water. the negatives mentioned were not particular or peculiar to the 50's. maybe the mindset of the 50's should be celebrated for bringing about so much reform. if we could only restore a love and pride for our country, even while we admit it makes mistakes, i think we would all be better off. i don't know about you guys, but i actually tried to enlist to serve my country but my dad wouldn't allow it (i was underage) and the rumors about girls in service were mean. personally, i would still like to do something for my country if i could but although i am still 18 in my head, my body knows it is a lot older than that!

diversity was not accepted; i couldn't get into any college i wanted; there were quotas for jews and i wasn't rich so that really curtailed my choices, but i had the ambition and desire to fulfill my dream and work toward a higher education which i achieved. today, however, it is an entitlement; it should not be; it should be earned.

today, kids can't even play tag or eat cupcakes on their birthdays or get trophies for real achievement because oooh, someone might be disappointed. what happened to good sportsmanship? isn't that what life is about? some succeed more than others and shouldn't we be taught to be happy for them not jealous or angry...shouldn't we use them as positive examples or mentors, instead of railing at them because they have more than us?

i know i am not putting it well because political correctness stifles my ability to put it into words. i feel like there are thought patrols out there. we don't have freedom anymore unless the powers that be, who insist on total inclusiveness, even when it is counterproductive, sanction it.

not everyone is college material,...there i have said it and i am sure there will be a lot of anger directed toward me. all chiefs and no indians cannot create a successful business, country, world. we all have to be pieces of the whole pie. some will be bigger pieces. if we all don't work together to fit into that pie plate, heaven help us.

no,  the 50's weren't perfect. gays and homosexuals were in the closet and i know many who suffered enormously as well as their families and i lost many dear friends to the aids epidemic in more recent years. blacks/african americans, etc.,  were unfairly treated as were most minorities among them, jews, who were often ridiculed, (it happened to my son in edina mn, in the 80's so it wasn't confined to the 50's). the poor were maltreated and ignored and i am sure there are other complaints one could find but not being able to discuss the subjects openly, without fear of being called a name, is a terrible offshoot of that hyposcrisy in this current day and age.

political correctness has caused censorship and that is a crime as far as i am concerned. why can't we have an open dialogue without the fear of being attacked. how will you learn to understand what makes me different if you are afraid to approach me and discuss it?
twj

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Re: Community Room

Oooh, I definitely see this as a discussion thread once we get into the book itself !!!

 

I see what you mean.  Yes, this will be a fantastic discussion point.  Great catch.


chana56 wrote:

Everyman wrote:

You are both right.  The 50s were a time when social values and norms were more valued over individual rights.  Today, we have a society where individual rights are paramount, and social values are largely sneered at.  Which era you prefer depends on which value you cherish most.  

 

Kennedy's "Ask not" speech resonated with our generation.  Today's generation would just laugh at it.  

 

Rebellion and disruption in school them were dealt with both by the administration (including the occasional corporal discipline when called for) and then reinforced at home.  Today, rebellion and disruption in school are protected by the ACLU, and if any teacher dares even lay a hand on a student they'll be fired or sued or both.  

 

We have yet to find a balance between the two that will give us a healthy society with adequate individual liberties.  

 

 


Well put, Everyman, thank you.  Even though Rosa Parks was an activist for workers' rights and racial equality, she saw her own action in 1955 as a private citizen "tired of giving in".   Individual right or social norm?

 

Over 50 years, from HUAC mentality to ACLU mentality (with a little SDS mentality in the middle).  All could be seen as healthy in some way.  Why must people go to the extremes?

 

Oooh, I definitely see this as a discussion thread once we get into the book itself !!!  :smileyvery-happy:


 

 

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
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Re: Community Room

the negatives mentioned were not particular or peculiar to the 50's.

 

Good point.  Almost all, maybe all, of the negatives mentioned were  historical negatives inherited by the 50s.  Much of the improvement started in the 50s.   What the 50s added was the opportunity for the average Joe to afford a house rather tha having to rent a city apartment, to own a car and the freedom it brought, to own many labor saving devices to make life much easier -- washing machines, dryers, vacuum cleaner, and on and on.  The expectation that schooling would continue at least through high school and that those who were academically able could go to college.  My father was a salaried professional but making an average professional salary, and my mother was a stay-at-home mom who started on a Master's degree when we were old enough not to need her at home all the time, but they were able to afford a home in a nice community outside the city, two cars, and to send my sister and me to excellent private colleges without having rely on loans or student aid.   How many families can do that today on one salary?

_______________
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chana56
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Re: Community Room


thewanderingjew wrote:

 

political correctness has caused censorship and that is a crime as far as i am concerned. why can't we have an open dialogue without the fear of being attacked. how will you learn to understand what makes me different if you are afraid to approach me and discuss it?
twj


I include "political correctness" in the list of positive things that become negative when taken to the extreme.  When politically correct becomes politically rigid any hope of dialogue flies out the window.  I do try to be aware of what could be offensive to others, and to respect that.  (Unless, of course, I am not respected in return, then I have a tendency to get nasty  :smileyvery-happy:  I don't see that happening in this forum, luckily.)   

 

twj, I do hear what you're saying.  We can probably find the positive in any age and era, especially when it's seen through the eyes of youth.  In my experience, most people are nostalgic for the time when they were young, believing how much better, or how much simpler it was, no matter what their age.  

 

I can't really make any personal judgement on how things are today, since I haven't lived in the States for about 30 years, although I stay in close touch with people dear to me there, and I do visit, and I do keep up with news.  But my day-to-day living situation is different, through my choice.  So I don't have that much chutzpah that I would dare to pontificate about another's reality that's not my own.  I'm sure living half my life on another continent and seeing the world through a different perspective colors my viewpoint, if not my memories.

 


not everyone is college material,...there i have said it and i am sure there will be a lot of anger directed toward me.


No anger from here, I see no reason why college is a necessary step in realizing a dream.  I tell my kid to do what she is passionate about, and if that is something that doesn't need a college degree for, that's fine.  On the other hand, young people in Israel don't go to university until after they finish their army service, so they're several years older when they start, usually much more mature, focused, goal-oriented, whatever.  It's not taken for granted that university is a "next step".

Chana

"We don't stop laughing when we get old, we get old when we stop laughing - Anonymous