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detailmuse
Posts: 180
Registered: ‎01-24-2008
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)

I thought Rosa and Karla each had a "Is the whole world crazy or is it just me?!" moment that started them on new paths -- Rosa's after Lenny drank and drugged and slept with Jane; Karla's as she does the favor for the thankless Mrs. Mee and realizes that willful unhappiness can become a way of life.

 


KxBurns wrote:
 

In the chapters of Part III, each of the Litvinoffs faces some turning point in their personal struggles.


 

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detailmuse
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)

I'm glad to see Karla accept Khaled's attention; she needs his influence. It broke my heart when she threw his flowers in the trash -- because she felt uncomfortable with them, a token of affection! -- it felt like Khaled got thrown in the trash, and I like him a lot.
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Readingrat
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)

I liked that most of the characters had a moment of self-realization in this section.  Even Audrey realized that the mask of confrontation that she used to cover up her shyness when she was young, had some how become cemented in as her actual personality somewhere along the line.
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fordmg
Posts: 546
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)


BookWoman718 wrote:

fordmg wrote:

    Audrey now confronts Joel's "other woman" and does not do well.  She becomes her most insulting.  I'm not sure I blame her on this front.  I would be upset to find out Joel had a child with Berenice.  Berenice really forces herself on Audrey with her demands to be part of the extended family.  That is a little much to swallow, especially when Joel's former associates are the ones trying to barter the arrangement


 

Bereniece would probably have liked to remain well away from Audrey, but the fact is that she has a minor son, a small child, for whom Joel is responsible.   Audrey, as his wife and presumably his executor, has to face this reality and deal with it responsibly.   It is fairly understandable to me that Joel's adult children should be told about this half-brother, surely they were at least suspicious about their father's ongoing infidelities.  Especially with their outspoken mother having been aware of Joel's behavior, I can't imagine it was a very well kept secret or that they would have been so naiive.  At any rate, they are adults and it should be their decision, not Audrey's, as to how much interaction they want with their new brother.  If she were pained by it, then they don't have to rub her nose in it, but they do need to be responsible for their own relationships.   One of the benchmarks of being an adult is that you don't have to have your mom's approval for whom you love and/or hang out with.   Not that these kids seem to have ever had a chance to learn anything like reasonable boundaries in their screwed-up family.    Joel's former associates were acting responsibly when they tried to help Bereniece;  they are lawyers and know very well that such a circumstance is much better negotiated out of court and public view.  Such a circus - inevitable if Audrey doesn't do the right thing - would be even more painful for her.  In the end, her solution of publicly bringing Bereniece and her child into the extended family fold, is the best outcome.   One can only hope that Bereniece will be able to guide her son through the minefield that these new relatives inhabit. 


 

I'm not really commenting on the adult children, just Audrey's reaction to Berenice.  If Joel did not sign a contract to support the new child, there is really no legal recourse.  Joel was a lawyer, so maybe he did take care of the child financially, but I don't think he was expecting to pass on any time soon.   Berenise has "come begging".  She is just as dysfunctional as the rest of the family. 

MG

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fordmg
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)


CDover1978 wrote:

 

Instead of Karla getting a backbone and standing up to Mike, she goes and sleeps with Khaled.  Don’t get me wrong, it’s a start in a long journey of finally following her heart and doing what SHE wants to do and not what Mike tells her to do.

 

 

I am always mystified by the belief that everyone should finally get to do what She/He wants with their life.  What happened to compromise.  I do believe that Karla should learn to stand up to Mike, but having an affair with Khaled isn't necessarily the answer.  In real life, an affair doesn't solve anything, just complecates, as we see with Joel and Berenice.  Is this the new "ME" age where the answer is to just do what ever you want with no reguard to others?

MG

 

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KxBurns
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Registered: ‎09-06-2007
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)


fordmg wrote:

 

I am always mystified by the belief that everyone should finally get to do what She/He wants with their life.  What happened to compromise.  I do believe that Karla should learn to stand up to Mike, but having an affair with Khaled isn't necessarily the answer.  In real life, an affair doesn't solve anything, just complecates, as we see with Joel and Berenice.  Is this the new "ME" age where the answer is to just do what ever you want with no reguard to others?

MG

 


I agree, MG. But while I certainly wouldn't condone adultery, I do think there are some integral differences between Joel's string affairs and Karla's relationship with Khaled.

 

Karla's affair definitely complicates her life, but it also seems to be making her more attuned to what she actually might want out of life. This would in turn give her the confidence to make a choice like leaving her husband, if that's what she chooses is best. Given the constant barrage of negativity from everyone else in her life I don't see how she could develop this self-efficacy without having the relationship with Khaled. So I don't necessarily agree with it, but it occupies shades of gray for me.

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libralady
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Registered: ‎09-23-2008
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)

I liked Chapter 11, when Audrey confronts Bernice.  While I feel that Audrey handled it very badly, I was not at all surprised by her anger and insults.  The reason why I liked this chapter is because it finally gave me an insight into how Audrey came to be the insulting, angry, critical, temperamental person that she is.  Her behavior started out as an amusing way for her to hide her shyness and developed into way for her to deal with her "domestic fate."  The chapter describes her anger as a thicket too dense to be cut down and too deeply entrenched to be uprooted.  I found myself starting to feel a little sympathy for her.  I don't think her life turned out at all the way she imagined it would and I sense that she has been disappointed time after time. 
"Sow today what you want to reap tomorrow"
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blkeyesuzi
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)

These chapters do a wonderful job of demonstrating how every family member is trying to reconcile

 

1.) the person they want to be

2.) the person they are perceived to be

3.) the person they really are

 

So far, they've chosen different roads, but I believe they will all end up tragically lost.  Each of them is struggling with their questions in their own ways...religion, drugs, power trips, anger... struggling to find their ways with little/no direction or support. They're depending on beliefs they seem to have invented for themselves along the way (almost making it up as they go along).

 

Audrey:  wants to be strong, knowledgeable, and self-assured, but she is perceived as mean and vindictive.  The person she really is becomes a surprise even to her...she needs people, she's afraid of being hurt, and she actually CAN be hurt. 

 

Joel:  wanted to be perceived as athletic, self assured, knowledgeable, and strong.  He was perceived as a moral, successful attorney and in actualiy he is helpless, weak, opinionated, and unfaithful.

 

Karla:  wanted to be happy, maternal, and confident.  Others perceived her as sweet, shy, maternal, and lacking confidence.  In actuality she was overweight and had little/no control over her life.  She lacked confidence and questioned her own maternal instincts. She was starving for attention and acceptance.

 

Rosa:  wanted to be perceived as the person everone expected her to be.  Others saw her as unsure, struggling for answers, and somewhat needy.  In actuality, she just wanted to please everyone, whatever the cost.

 

Suzi

"I still find each day too short for all the thoughts I want to think, all the walks I want to take, all the books I want to read, and all the friends I want to see. " --John Burroughs
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KxBurns
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)

This message has been moved to a more appropriate location. This helps to keep our boards organized.

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Carmenere_lady
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Registered: ‎11-05-2006
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)

[ Edited ]
Sorry, I really wanted to put this post in part IV not III - didn't mean to create an unidentified spoiler :smileysad:
Carmenere_lady wrote:

[edited] Could it be that one doesn't have to belong to an organized religion, doesn't have to be a morally stellar being to be a good person?  Joel went about doing exactly what he wanted to do in life, help the disenfranchised, and that's what he did all to his own benefit.  Audrey sort of came along for the ride, we don't really know what she wanted out of life.  Audrey's complete identity was entwined with Joel.  Now that he is gone she finds a way to continue that identity posthumously.  In my estimation I think hers was a very sad life.

Not sticking up for Joel, mind you, he's a cad!


blkeyesuzi wrote:

 

Joel:  wanted to be perceived as athletic, self assured, knowledgeable, and strong.  He was perceived as a moral, successful attorney and in actualiy he is helpless, weak, opinionated, and unfaithful.

 


 


No worries! I moved it to the thread for Part IV, and edited it slightly here, as I think it's a point worth discussing. I think I just posted something similar somewhere :smileyhappy:

Message Edited by KxBurns on 11-13-2008 08:57 PM
Lynda

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Jodi
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎07-16-2007
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Re: Part III (Ch. 9-18)

Chapter 9

I thought MrsGates was wrong in hitting Chianti.  Raphael was very sincere in helping Chianti get on the right track with the idea of a dancing session and Chianti being in charge of the choreography.

Chapter 10

I thought it was very nice of khaled to give Karla flowers.  I thought it was rude of Karla to throw out the flowers in a trash can.  She could of explained that she got them from a friend to Mike.

Chapter 11

I thought it was good of Audrey to go off on Berenice about Joel's and Berenice's child.

Chapter 12

I hope Jane didn't get a venereal disease from Lenny.

Chapter 13

Audrey is I think very rude and mean to Rosa about her religion.  Audrey is a real slob with her house.  I thought it was nice of Karla to help clean Audrey's house.  Lenny definitly needs to get into treatment

Chapter 14

Rosa goes to a class that talks more about Judaism and how married couples act once a month when women are having there cycles.  Rosa doessn't believe it anymore.  Rosa is very disgustedby the whole thing.

Chapter 15

Im glad Audrey forced Lenny to go get help.  Lenny is very mean to Audrey for what she isdoing to him.

Chapter 16

Rosa slept with Chris

Chapter 17

Khaled got a motel room for him and Karla.  Khaled and Karla slept together with the lights off.

Chapter 18

The doctor was telling Audrey and Rosa that Joel wasn't getting better.  Khaled and Karla slept together.  Audrey went and hit a women who was visiting Joel in the hospital.  KHaled and Karla got into a heated discussion about politics, 9-11 towers.