Academic and Folk Traditions

[Rachel-K]

What was lost when Connie threw the Physick Book into the fire? do you think the book served a greater purpose for the academic world, or for it's "folk" uses?

Do you see the early "professional" medicine and the courts as being the "ancestor" to modern academia in the novel? Does academia pose a threat to the world of folk traditions?

How does Connie fit into these two worlds? How have the earlier women in her family fit into these worlds?

[dhaupt]

The loss of the physical book was tremendous in the aspect of an ancient text surviving for so long. The book was more important for the academic world since the actual text was saved by being copied so the folk uses are still possible.

I think early academia was a threat to folk traditions but not so today where we realize the importance and value of folk traditions.

Connie and her ancestors were conduits between folk medicine and professional medicine as they practiced both. 

[CathyB]

I think that the an antique book was lost when Connie threw the Physick Book into the fire. It had a greater purpose in the academic world as it was able to describe events (even minutia) of those times enabling historians to piece the past together, identify different class structures, language structures and the role of religion/science. With the advent of modern medicine and science, the 'folk' uses would not be seen as important to today's society; however, the 'folk' uses were not lost as there is a back-up copy of the book.

Academia definitely threatened folk traditions.

I find it interesting that as modern medicine and science progress, there is a trend to go back to the basics - to no longer pollute the planet or our bodies.

Both Connie and her ancestors were able to bridge the gap between folk traditions and modern science.

CathyB

Message Edited by CathyB on 04-20-2009 11:50 AM

[booksJT]

When Connie tossed the Physick book in the fire she lost a part of her family history as well as the only book of old medical remedies.  I think this book would have served a greater purpose for the academic world. The Physick  book contained information on how medications were used to heal people. The academic society could have dissected this information to find more medical possibilities. Connie and her ancestors fit into both worlds. Connie and her ancestors shared the knowledge of medicine that was practiced in the old and new world. Connie fits into both worlds because she inherited the knowledge from her ancestors.

[DSaff]

When I read that Connie had thrown the book into the fire, I thought she was CRAZY! But, after reading her conversation with Liz about Radcliffe and its microfilm collections, I think she burned a copy. She wouldn't have been able to get out of the library with the original, and I don't believe she would have burned the original. Because of the microfilm, Connie may not have even touched the Physick Book. She made some small changes to the card catalog so that it wouldn't easily be found, which is protection. So, in reality, I don't think anything was truly lost here.

I think Academia may try to explain away folk lore and traditions and find "better" ways to do them, but ultimately, these ideas are passed down by word of mouth. We also have books that compile the information that are very popular. We see that in the "Home Remedies" collection. 

Connie now belongs to both worlds. Her academic career will be tempered with the knowledge that witchcraft as she knows it does work. I'm not sure she could ever take things at face value again. She has also learned that there is power inside her - power to stand up for herself and those she loves.

Message Edited by DSaff on 04-20-2009 12:42 PM

[ponie]

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DSaff wrote:

When I read that Connie had thrown the book into the fire, I thought she was CRAZY! But, after reading her conversation with Liz about Radcliffe and its microfilm collections, I think she burned a copy. She wouldn't have been able to get out of the library with the original, and I don't believe she would have burned the original. Because of the microfilm, Connie may not have even touched the Physick Book. She made some small changes to the card catalog so that it wouldn't easily be found, which is protection. So, in reality, I don't think anything was truly lost here.

I think Academia may try to explain away folk lore and traditions and find "better" ways to do them, but ultimately, these ideas are passed down by word of mouth. We also have books that compile the information that are very popular. We see that in the "Home Remedies" collection. 

Connie now belongs to both worlds. Her academic career will be tempered with the knowledge that witchcraft as she knows it does work. I'm not sure she could ever take things at face value again. She has also learned that there is power inside her - power to stand up for herself and those she loves.

Message Edited by DSaff on 04-20-2009 12:42 PM

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You put words/clearer explanation to my thoughts and wonderings DSaff, Holy Makerel (ala Liz p. 360-361) !!!  So it's still in there somewhere???  [Connie says] Yeah...that way I'll know the text survives, hidden in the archives.

I (as well as other posts) wondered how she could have gotten the real thing out of the library unless she stole it and I just didn't think she did that.  I think she had too great of a respect for (finally! after all her "discoveries") to let it be wiped out totally.

Sometimes things must be hidden - and rehidden - until the world is ready. 

[DSaff]

And, if it were totally destroyed, how could there be a sequel? <vbg> Seriously, I was soooo glad to read that it was in the microfilm that I actually shouted, "Yeah!" My husband, who wasn't on the same page, jumped a little. LOL Later on he knew what I was excited about. Books just aren't meant to be destroyed! I love your last line, Ponie. It is so true.

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ponie wrote:

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DSaff wrote:

When I read that Connie had thrown the book into the fire, I thought she was CRAZY! But, after reading her conversation with Liz about Radcliffe and its microfilm collections, I think she burned a copy. She wouldn't have been able to get out of the library with the original, and I don't believe she would have burned the original. Because of the microfilm, Connie may not have even touched the Physick Book. She made some small changes to the card catalog so that it wouldn't easily be found, which is protection. So, in reality, I don't think anything was truly lost here.

I think Academia may try to explain away folk lore and traditions and find "better" ways to do them, but ultimately, these ideas are passed down by word of mouth. We also have books that compile the information that are very popular. We see that in the "Home Remedies" collection. 

Connie now belongs to both worlds. Her academic career will be tempered with the knowledge that witchcraft as she knows it does work. I'm not sure she could ever take things at face value again. She has also learned that there is power inside her - power to stand up for herself and those she loves.

Message Edited by DSaff on 04-20-2009 12:42 PM

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You put words/clearer explanation to my thoughts and wonderings DSaff, Holy Makerel (ala Liz p. 360-361) !!!  So it's still in there somewhere???  [Connie says] Yeah...that way I'll know the text survives, hidden in the archives.

I (as well as other posts) wondered how she could have gotten the real thing out of the library unless she stole it and I just didn't think she did that.  I think she had too great of a respect for (finally! after all her "discoveries") to let it be wiped out totally.

Sometimes things must be hidden - and rehidden - until the world is ready. 

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[thewanderingjew]

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rkubie wrote:

What was lost when Connie threw the Physick Book into the fire? do you think the book served a greater purpose for the academic world, or for it's "folk" uses?

The loss of the original was sad for its historic value, but the information was intact on microfiche in the library so it could be printed off again. If it was a book of spells and incantations, I don't think anything was really lost because I am not sure I believe in that, truthfully. I find it easier to believe that if there is "magic", it exists without incantations and is part of the nature of the person who is the "magician" or healer.

Do you see the early "professional" medicine and the courts as being the "ancestor" to modern academia in the novel? Does academia pose a threat to the world of folk traditions?

I think there is a definite place for folk remedies in medicine and many have been proven useful. Modern medicine or rather some modern doctors actually apply some when treating patients especially some that originated in Asia. I can understand the resistance to it by scholars, however, since it does take a leap of judgment to believe it it.

How does Connie fit into these two worlds? How have the earlier women in her family fit into these worlds?

If they are using magic and the magic is only useful when one of them uses it, I don't think it fits into the modern medical world. If the remedies are useful no matter who applies them, then they would be more useful and more readily accepted rather than a part of superstition.

twj

[PiperMurphy]

I have been wondering all this time how Connie got the book out of the library and I was horrified that she burned it. Thanks for pointing out the logical explanation. Sure, it had to be a copy. I've been wondering if Chilton would have been able to use it if he had it. I'm thinking that he wouldn't have. Sam couldn't make the tomato spell work. I think that the book would have been useless to Chilton.

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DSaff wrote:

When I read that Connie had thrown the book into the fire, I thought she was CRAZY! But, after reading her conversation with Liz about Radcliffe and its microfilm collections, I think she burned a copy. She wouldn't have been able to get out of the library with the original, and I don't believe she would have burned the original. Because of the microfilm, Connie may not have even touched the Physick Book. She made some small changes to the card catalog so that it wouldn't easily be found, which is protection. So, in reality, I don't think anything was truly lost here.

[aprilh]

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DSaff wrote:

When I read that Connie had thrown the book into the fire, I thought she was CRAZY! But, after reading her conversation with Liz about Radcliffe and its microfilm collections, I think she burned a copy. She wouldn't have been able to get out of the library with the original, and I don't believe she would have burned the original. Because of the microfilm, Connie may not have even touched the Physick Book. She made some small changes to the card catalog so that it wouldn't easily be found, which is protection. So, in reality, I don't think anything was truly lost here.

I think Academia may try to explain away folk lore and traditions and find "better" ways to do them, but ultimately, these ideas are passed down by word of mouth. We also have books that compile the information that are very popular. We see that in the "Home Remedies" collection. 

Connie now belongs to both worlds. Her academic career will be tempered with the knowledge that witchcraft as she knows it does work. I'm not sure she could ever take things at face value again. She has also learned that there is power inside her - power to stand up for herself and those she loves.

Message Edited by DSaff on 04-20-2009 12:42 PM

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I totally agree with you DSaff! The book Connie burned had to be a copy. I just cannot imagine her throwing the original book into the fire after all the work she put into finding it, not to mention the sentimental value it must hold to her now that she knows she is a direct descendant to those who wrote it. It does make me feel better knowing the book is safe in the library hidden away. I loved that she changed some of the information in the card catalog to make it harder to find, making sure she would be the only one to know where the original book truly is. It's like her own little secret!

Message Edited by aprilh on 04-20-2009 06:00 PM

[Deltadawn]

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PiperMurphy wrote:

I have been wondering all this time how Connie got the book out of the library and I was horrified that she burned it. Thanks for pointing out the logical explanation. Sure, it had to be a copy. I've been wondering if Chilton would have been able to use it if he had it. I'm thinking that he wouldn't have. Sam couldn't make the tomato spell work. I think that the book would have been useless to Chilton.

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DSaff wrote:

When I read that Connie had thrown the book into the fire, I thought she was CRAZY! But, after reading her conversation with Liz about Radcliffe and its microfilm collections, I think she burned a copy. She wouldn't have been able to get out of the library with the original, and I don't believe she would have burned the original. Because of the microfilm, Connie may not have even touched the Physick Book. She made some small changes to the card catalog so that it wouldn't easily be found, which is protection. So, in reality, I don't think anything was truly lost here.

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I need to also thank you for pointing that out - it makes perfect sense - like the others I,too, pondered about how she had taken the original out of the library....great observations.

[emmagrace]

I am really enjoying reading everyone's thoughts!

I am thinking/hoping that Connie did not throw the original copy of the book in the fire. A major part of history is lost when the book was burned!

I think the book would serve a greater purpose for  the academic world. The academic world could have certainly benefited from the book. The book had spells in it but, it also had recipes for medicinal purposes. It would have gave the academic world a better understanding of the medical/healing practices in the 1600's and so forth.

Connie and her ancestors fit into both worlds! The other posters have explained the reasoning on this question so much better than I could have.

[fordmg]

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DSaff wrote:

When I read that Connie had thrown the book into the fire, I thought she was CRAZY! But, after reading her conversation with Liz about Radcliffe and its microfilm collections, I think she burned a copy. She wouldn't have been able to get out of the library with the original, and I don't believe she would have burned the original. Because of the microfilm, Connie may not have even touched the Physick Book. She made some small changes to the card catalog so that it wouldn't easily be found, which is protection. So, in reality, I don't think anything was truly lost here.

Message Edited by DSaff on 04-20-2009 12:42 PM

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I think this is a good explaination on how Connie could have gotten the book out of the Radcliffe library.  I didn't think that was possible, but I didn't think about a copy.  I like that scenaril better than loosing the original copy.

MG

[Zeal]

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dhaupt wrote:

The loss of the physical book was tremendous in the aspect of an ancient text surviving for so long. The book was more important for the academic world since the actual text was saved by being copied so the folk uses are still possible.

I think early academia was a threat to folk traditions but not so today where we realize the importance and value of folk traditions.

Connie and her ancestors were conduits between folk medicine and professional medicine as they practiced both. 

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I agree with your post!  I also think that if Connie had not burned the book, she could have had a tragedy on her hands (if Chilton got his hands on it)!

[Zeal]

Ah...I did not read the other posts before posting mine.  I AGREE that the original book was probably not the one that Connie threw in the fire!  Excellent points, everyone...thanks!

[jabrkeKB]

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DSaff wrote:

When I read that Connie had thrown the book into the fire, I thought she was CRAZY! But, after reading her conversation with Liz about Radcliffe and its microfilm collections, I think she burned a copy. She wouldn't have been able to get out of the library with the original, and I don't believe she would have burned the original. Because of the microfilm, Connie may not have even touched the Physick Book. She made some small changes to the card catalog so that it wouldn't easily be found, which is protection. So, in reality, I don't think anything was truly lost here.

I think Academia may try to explain away folk lore and traditions and find "better" ways to do them, but ultimately, these ideas are passed down by word of mouth. We also have books that compile the information that are very popular. We see that in the "Home Remedies" collection. 

Connie now belongs to both worlds. Her academic career will be tempered with the knowledge that witchcraft as she knows it does work. I'm not sure she could ever take things at face value again. She has also learned that there is power inside her - power to stand up for herself and those she loves.

Message Edited by DSaff on 04-20-2009 12:42 PM

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I totally agree with your thoughts!  I couldn't have expressed it better.

[Tarri]

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rkubie wrote:

What was lost when Connie threw the Physick Book into the fire? do you think the book served a greater purpose for the academic world, or for it's "folk" uses?

Do you see the early "professional" medicine and the courts as being the "ancestor" to modern academia in the novel? Does academia pose a threat to the world of folk traditions?

How does Connie fit into these two worlds? How have the earlier women in her family fit into these worlds?

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I completely agree with DStaff on the destruction of the book.  I cannot imagine anyone who is a student of history, destroying such a historical find.  

I do not think that academia poses a threat to the world of folk traditions, because people are all different and beliefs are ingrained in everyone from the time they are babies.  While some may scoff at magic or folk traditions, others will never believe what the academic proves.  

Connie's role in the two worlds is still to be determined.  I think she will explore her new found knowledge, as you carries on with her academic career.  

[MSaff]

What was lost when Connie threw the Physick Book into the fire?  Do you think the book served a greater purpose for the academic world, or for it's "folk" uses?

  Interesting questions.  As you may recall from the conversation between Connie and Liz following the last incident with Chilton, that Connie told Liz that the book was on Microfilm at Radcliff College.  So did we loose anything ?  I believe the original is still housed safely away at Radcliff.  What Connie threw out was a copy she made of the microfilm.  

  Yes the book, I imagine, could still be studied in the Library, for academic purposes, but remember it's age.  Parchment and very brittle.  As for folk use, the recipes would only be useful to someone with the power to use them.  Remember what happened when Sam tried to use one.  Nothing happened.  

  Do you see the early "professional" medicine and the courts as being the ancestor to modern academia in the novel? 

  Yes, because early medicine was a trial and error method of providing the sick and injured.  Many times patients died as a result of unproven medications therefore, the use of research through educational institutions has brought medicine to it's current high standard and level.  Early medicine utilized herbs and organic materials, whereas modern medicine uses medicine and techniques which have been exhaustedly researched, to come up with the formula which will help a person.

  How does Connie fit into these two worlds?  How have earlier women in her family fit into these worlds?

  Connie could do well in the earlier world mainly because of her new found powers.  Although she is not fully up to speed, I think that under the instruction of someone like Deliverance, Connie would find her nitch.  The problem here is that there was no wiggle room in the earlier world.  Women like Deliverance were looked upon a strange and someone to be feared, because those unlike her did not understand.  

  Connie has the academic background to excel in her own world.  Research is her life, other than Sam, Liz, Grace and Arlo, so fits in well.  

  Deliverance and the other women in Connie's family from the earlier world, would be looked at as strange and probably labeled insane or just plain crazy.

[PB684]

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DSaff wrote:

When I read that Connie had thrown the book into the fire, I thought she was CRAZY! But, after reading her conversation with Liz about Radcliffe and its microfilm collections, I think she burned a copy. She wouldn't have been able to get out of the library with the original, and I don't believe she would have burned the original. Because of the microfilm, Connie may not have even touched the Physick Book. She made some small changes to the card catalog so that it wouldn't easily be found, which is protection. So, in reality, I don't think anything was truly lost here.

Message Edited by DSaff on 04-20-2009 12:42 PM

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Wow! I can't believe I didn't pick up on that! I assumed that the mention of the book being saved on microfilm only meant that Connie could access a copy if she needed to. I totally missed that it could have been the copy that she burned but that makes perfect sense. Now I am SO excited for the sequel to see if that is the case! Talk about an "Aha-moment"! Thank you so much for that DSaff...you made my day

PB684

Hope to see you on the next FL!

[Jennmarie68]

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rkubie wrote:

What was lost when Connie threw the Physick Book into the fire? do you think the book served a greater purpose for the academic world, or for it's "folk" uses?

Do you see the early "professional" medicine and the courts as being the "ancestor" to modern academia in the novel? Does academia pose a threat to the world of folk traditions?

How does Connie fit into these two worlds? How have the earlier women in her family fit into these worlds?

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Wow, great questions!

Obviously a great physical piece of history was lost when the book was thrown into the fire, however the college had it microfilmed so it was not completly lost. I don't see where Connie had much of a choice though. I think that had Chilton, or anyone else, gotten a hold of the book that it could have been misused and caused many problems. 

I think the book wouldn't have been very useful for academics, from a historical standpoint maybe, but given that when Sam tried to do the "growing" spell he got no results I think that anyone outside of the family would not have been able to use the book. So I would have to say that it was more valuable for its "folk" uses. Even if Chilton had gotten ahold of the book I don't think he would have been able to use it.

Connie's roles in the folk world and academic world  are very important. I think given that she has a gift that has been passed down through the women in her family she has an insight into something the rest of the academic world doesn't. However, being that she is part of the academic world I think she will have to be careful of how she uses her gift.