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debbook
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science

What you've just described sounds like magic to me. Maybe we are using diferent definitions. If what Connie did with the blue light to Sam and to Chilton wasn't magic what was it? What do you consider to be magic?

thewanderingjew wrote:

I think Connie's powers come from within herself. I don't attribute it to magic, just to a gift she has, albeit a supernatural one. I think she could probably do things without spells but I haven't read the whole book so I may be barking up the wrong tree, here.

In the recesses of my mind, I believe that we all have untapped power to do a lot more than we know. Some people are able to get in touch with themselves and some aren't. Clairvoyants and psychics have a special gift too. I don't think they use magic do you? Or, do you not believe in clairvoyance?


debbook wrote:
I think the point of the book and how it differs from other books about the Salem Witch Trials is that those women were most likely healers or some were eccentrics, easy to blame for things gone wrong. But Deliverance actually is a witch. Where do you think Connie gets her powers from? It's not just herbal healing, there is actual magic.

 

 

 

A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
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MSaff
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science

Hello again all,

 

  How are magic, religion and science related in the world of Deliverence Dane ?  How is Deliverence's thinking about these things different from those around her ?

 

  Let's see, where to start with this or these questions.  During Deliverence's time in history, fearof the unknown was more pronounced then in today's society.  If in the case of Deliverence, I believe that religion played a more important role in the day to day goings on, and magic was given the name to anything that could not be explained in any other way by those who did not understand it.  Deliverence was given a power to heal and she relied on her use of her powers in conjunction with religion, (prayer), to help heal the sick when requested or called upon.

  Science did not play a very important role at the time, primarily because it had not been developed enough and very few used it.  Deliverence and those like here were endowed with special skills, powers and knowledge to heal, but as in most cases, were not perfect, so when a death occurred following their attempts to heal failed, those around them especially family members of the sick, made accusations of witchcraft.  The prayers being said by these empowered women, were explained away by the unknowing, as magical chanting and spells, usually because the family member or members were out of earshot of the woman attempting to heal the sick.  

 

  The accusations brought against Deliverence and others like her were unfounded, because of false accusations of those who didn't understand or those who felt bitter for not have the power or knowledge.

 

  How are science, magic, and religion related in Connie's world ?

 

  Science plays a more important role in Connie's world.  She uses it in her research taking facts, both positive and negative, to come to conclusions.  Her own powers are as yet not quite realized.  She knows that something is going on, but is not completely aware of the power she actually has.  Even Grace is not telling her of the powers she possesses.  I think that she must realize this on her own.  She does know that she is the only one who can save Sam's life.  I only hope that she figures out how to use the Recipe Book, so that she can help Sam before it's too late. 

 

 

 

 

Mike
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
http://travelswithcarsandbooks.blogspot.com/
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ponie
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science-RESPONSES TO MODERATOR QUESTIONS


TRJ4SQ wrote:

1. How are magic, religion, and science related in the world of Deliverance Dane?

 

In Deliverance's day, the three were approached with fear due to lack of understanding. They were also used as weapons in power ploys. All were separate with science and magic being subject to accusations of heresy. Religion reigned supreme.

 

2. How is Deliverance's thinking about these things different from those around her?

 

Deliverance does not approach with fear but with understanding. She sees that all are intertwined as the work of God. She isn't interested in power but only in performing acts of grace in good faith.

 

3. How are science, magic, and religion related in Connie's world?

 

It's funny, but we know very little (if anything) about Connie's faith. In her world, science, magic and religion are intertwined in synchronistic patterns. Once cannot exist without the other as they are too deeply woven into the fabric of her universe. This is her ancestral legacy and is the substance of who she is.

 

 

4. On page 284, Chilton says that science has only the ability to doubt. What would a "faithful" science be?

 

This can be a very deep discussion so I'll take the easy way out for now.

 

To quote Albert Einstein: "Even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other, there are strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies ... science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind ... a legitimate conflict between science and religion cannot exist."

 

In an article entitled Science and Religion published in Nature Magazine (Nov. 1940), he argued that conflicts between science and religion "have all sprung from fatal errors."

 

He was really into this subject and it makes for great further reading on the subject.

 

5. How would you describe the "witchcraft" we find in this novel?

 

It isn't really witchcraft but more a supernatural talent stemming only from the providence of God and nothing evil at all.

 

6. Are Deliverance's accusers right about her? Why or why not?

 

We all know the accusers were deluded souls. Even though they preached piety they offered little compassion and even less understanding. Had they been more of the faith, they would have understood her and seen her ability to do good as a gift from God. The kind of witchcraft they are accusing her of is malice ridden and dwells in the darkness.

 

7. On the lighter side, if you were to find a book of spells and recipes, what spell would you look up for yourself first?

 

I wouldn't need any spells because I believe in the providence of God. I have only but to ask and He will work all the magic I need.

 
Message Edited by TRJ4SQ on 04-16-2009 06:06 AM

 

Amen! Sister!!!!
ponie
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ponie
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


TRJ4SQ wrote:

thewanderingjew wrote:

I believe Deliverance was a gifted healer, not a witch. Fear and religious fanaticism or extremism caused panic and unjust sentences to be passed on innocent victims in order to justify superstition. I think Mr. Petford simply wanted vengeance for a tragedy he couldn't come to terms with and so he blamed Deliverance. She just happened to be the convenient target for him.

 

 

I totally agree with you about Petford and I admire your fervency on these particular points. Such unnecessary tragedy always evokes intense emotion in myself as well.

 

I believe the power machine was also in motion here. The judges held the balance of life and death for each of accused in the palms of their sweaty, over excited hands. It made them feel important in their day. Perhaps they also thought it good for future political position. "Hi, remember me, you should elect me because I'm the guy that rid your town of all of those nasty witches and therefore eased your suffering and ensured your safety."

 

I am at a loss to understand how young girls could have joined forces to lie and essentially cause murders to be committed. Where was their remorse? How could they have gone undiscovered and unpunished? How could they all live with themselves since surely some townspeople had to have known what was going on with those young girls? Was fear for their own lives if they dissented the reason they all joined in the hysteria?

 

 

I think boredom was the initial reason for this terrible farce and I think it also perpetuated it. It gave the townsfolk excitement in their ordinary lives. It was a feast for gossip. The excitement also carried into the fear factor. They probably all experienced a massive adrenaline rush much like the one people get by watching scary horror movies. There is scientific proof that people can become adrenaline junkies. I'm sure it had a much stronger effect in the days where everything was so mundane and adrenaline was used very little.

 

There were also those of the townsfolk who relished the limelight and enjoyed their little bids for power. Remember how Goody Oliver enjoyed the effect of her testimony? She had a power rush of self-importance and realized that she could awe with her accusations. It was her ticket to respect in the community even if it was fueled by the fear of others. 

 

Deliverance tried to help others. If she used magic, it was for good. The group of young girls tried to harm others and lied outright. The injustice is that she was put to death and they remained unpunished for the most part. We have often seen the mob mentality create just such an environment throughout our history, wreaking havoc in its path.

 

I could not say that the girls (and their families) went unpunished. I believe in God's retribution and that no ill deed goes unaware or unpunished. Imagine the internal hell they might have suffered knowing that they were the cause of so many innocent deaths and the shame that their families faced in the eyes of others. Even today, we look upon these girls with distaste and derision.

 

Even today. there are people who want to blame others for their misfortunes. Perhaps that is why we are such a litigious society. It isn't about guilt or innocence. Often it is about retribution. Someone has to pay for our inability to understand or justify events. Too often we overreact.

twj

 

 

Others attempt to shed blame for their misdeeds and their own ineffectualness. Fingerpointing to divert attention from the fly under the microscope. Weak souls who cannot take responsibility and are at a loss on how to make things right.


 


[I have cut and pasted below the part of the above post I am responding to]

 

I believe the power machine was also in motion here. The judges held the balance of life and death for each of accused in the palms of their sweaty, over excited hands. It made them feel important in their day. Perhaps they also thought it good for future political position. "Hi, remember me, you should elect me because I'm the guy that rid your town of all of those nasty witches and therefore eased your suffering and ensured your safety."

 

This dynamic was clearly portrayed in the dvd The Crucible.  Very upsetting to watch!!!!!!

ponie
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PiperMurphy
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science-RESPONSES TO MODERATOR QUESTIONS


ponie wrote:

TRJ4SQ wrote:

 

6. Are Deliverance's accusers right about her? Why or why not?

 

We all know the accusers were deluded souls. Even though they preached piety they offered little compassion and even less understanding. Had they been more of the faith, they would have understood her and seen her ability to do good as a gift from God. The kind of witchcraft they are accusing her of is malice ridden and dwells in the darkness.

 

 
Message Edited by TRJ4SQ on 04-16-2009 06:06 AM

 

Amen! Sister!!!!

I totally agree with you, but I wonder if they weren't living more by the teachings of the Old Testament. That would explain the lack of compassion that we learn from the New Testament.

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gringorn
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


jholcomb wrote:

This is a bit off-subject, but for some reason, I had trouble accepting the witchcraft in the book. I've enjoyed other books with a supernatural element, but somehow Connie's abilities didn't invite suspension of disbelief--maybe because the novel was in other ways so prosaic. Did anyone else find it a little hollow?


 

I think that is what I meant when I have said that I didn't find it to be an historical novel in the sense that I don't think it really taught anything.  I found it to be a book that would make a good weekend read and written with a nice flow, but not "deep" in any sense of the word.  I am not sure I would call it "hollow" exactly.  I love books that make me think about the characters or the subject long after I have finished reading it, and this one didn't do it.  But, I don't think it was a waste of my time either. 
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ponie
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science-RESPONSES TO MODERATOR QUESTIONS


PiperMurphy wrote:

ponie wrote:

TRJ4SQ wrote:

 

6. Are Deliverance's accusers right about her? Why or why not?

 

We all know the accusers were deluded souls. Even though they preached piety they offered little compassion and even less understanding. Had they been more of the faith, they would have understood her and seen her ability to do good as a gift from God. The kind of witchcraft they are accusing her of is malice ridden and dwells in the darkness.

 

 
Message Edited by TRJ4SQ on 04-16-2009 06:06 AM

 

Amen! Sister!!!!

I totally agree with you, but I wonder if they weren't living more by the teachings of the Old Testament. That would explain the lack of compassion that we learn from the New Testament.


 

Hmmmm....yes! they were living without GRACE defined as "God's unmerited favor towards us in Christ".

 

Now, about the other Grace, Connie's mom....hmmmm...unmerited favor towards Connie, as in Connie did not have to earn it.  Grace gave grace!  Or in some circles, "Grace graced Connie!"

 

Hmmm...I again (skiibunny, take note!!!) have to tweak my opinion of Grace!!!  I'm gonna have to start calling her Amazing!!!!!:smileywink:

 

ponie
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PiperMurphy
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science-RESPONSES TO MODERATOR QUESTIONS


ponie wrote:

PiperMurphy wrote:

ponie wrote:

TRJ4SQ wrote:

 

6. Are Deliverance's accusers right about her? Why or why not?

 

We all know the accusers were deluded souls. Even though they preached piety they offered little compassion and even less understanding. Had they been more of the faith, they would have understood her and seen her ability to do good as a gift from God. The kind of witchcraft they are accusing her of is malice ridden and dwells in the darkness.

 

 
Message Edited by TRJ4SQ on 04-16-2009 06:06 AM

 

Amen! Sister!!!!

I totally agree with you, but I wonder if they weren't living more by the teachings of the Old Testament. That would explain the lack of compassion that we learn from the New Testament.


 

Hmmmm....yes! they were living without GRACE defined as "God's unmerited favor towards us in Christ".

 

Now, about the other Grace, Connie's mom....hmmmm...unmerited favor towards Connie, as in Connie did not have to earn it.  Grace gave grace!  Or in some circles, "Grace graced Connie!"

 

Hmmm...I again (skiibunny, take note!!!) have to tweak my opinion of Grace!!!  I'm gonna have to start calling her Amazing!!!!!:smileywink:

 


 

Perfect! I think that Grace is my new favorite name.
"When I have a little money, I buy books; and if I have any left, I buy food and clothes."
~Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus~
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thewanderingjew
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


debbook wrote:
What you've just described sounds like magic to me. Maybe we are using diferent definitions. If what Connie did with the blue light to Sam and to Chilton wasn't magic what was it? What do you consider to be magic?

 

twj wrote:

I think I see magic as coming from a trick or sleight of hand or an external source, funny mirrors, spells etc., not necessarily good, possibly evil at times. I think I also see it as more like fantasy.

I see Connie's talent coming from within herself perhaps put there by G-d, depending on your beliefs, or else genetics but I don't think she needs outside help to do what she does even though she read the spells. When Sam tried, it didn't work for him which leads me to believe it isn't in the spell but in the conduit. I just think it is her natural gift which she had not been in touch with, not developed yet and is still learning about.

I see the symbols on the door as magic coming from elsewhere, but Connie's talent  I see coming from within her. I may be absolutely wrong since we are dealing in fantasy here and the book has yet to reveal more to me. In real life, though, I would be given to think of Connie as a healer. Some people have that G-d given talent. I guess that would have to allow for the belief in a greater being and some do not believe that so they would probably see it as magic, if not genetic.

It is strictly my opinion at work here. I don't know how it will work out in the book yet. I think I am defining magic and healing arts based on the book, as well as my own beliefs and there could be a contradiction there, down the road. Only time will tell....

twj

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TRJ4SQ
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science-RESPONSES TO MODERATOR QUESTIONS


PiperMurphy wrote:

ponie wrote:

TRJ4SQ wrote:

 

6. Are Deliverance's accusers right about her? Why or why not?

 

We all know the accusers were deluded souls. Even though they preached piety they offered little compassion and even less understanding. Had they been more of the faith, they would have understood her and seen her ability to do good as a gift from God. The kind of witchcraft they are accusing her of is malice ridden and dwells in the darkness.

 

 
Message Edited by TRJ4SQ on 04-16-2009 06:06 AM

 

Amen! Sister!!!!

I totally agree with you, but I wonder if they weren't living more by the teachings of the Old Testament. That would explain the lack of compassion that we learn from the New Testament.


 

Great question Piper! For all of our banterings about the Puritan lifestyle, I haven't really seen anything to clearly define the religion and it's a subject I know little of myself. It made me curious to seek  more information. The Wiki link is here for others who are interested...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritanism

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nicole21WA
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


rkubie wrote:

 

 

Are Deliverance's accusers right about her? Why or why not?

 

On the lighter side, if you were to find a book of spells and recipes, what spell would you look up for yourself first?

 

 

Message Edited by rkubie on 04-14-2009 01:45 AM
Message Edited by rkubie on 04-14-2009 01:58 AM

Deliverance does seem to have some sort of power, so her accusers are partly right.  However, Deliverance doesn't appear to ever use witchcraft for evil, which is what the accusation is.  She definitely tried to save Martha, not harm her.

 

If I found a book a spells, I'd immediately check for one that would make fabulous shoes instantly appear!

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pode
Posts: 43
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


jholcomb wrote:

This is a bit off-subject, but for some reason, I had trouble accepting the witchcraft in the book. I've enjoyed other books with a supernatural element, but somehow Connie's abilities didn't invite suspension of disbelief--maybe because the novel was in other ways so prosaic. Did anyone else find it a little hollow?


I agree.  I've read other books that include magic, supernatural elements, dreamy stuff and they were often interesting and engaging.  Connie never rang true for me. 

 

I think parts of the book were meaningful in that the topics included in the book invited discussion.  The readers had great ideas and the discussion has been good but I think, NOT, because of the Connie, Chilton, Sam, etc. characters.  The history from Salem did elicit interest and thoughtful insights.

 

As I've said before, this was a juicy topic.  I wish the author had done a better job of developing the story.  Magic, religion and science are very current subjects.  Can we trust the scientists?  How far should religion be allowed to influence our laws?  How much of the "magic" of early years is the "science (medicine)" of today?  What "magic" is out here today? 

 

Seems to me that Connie never really thought much about anything, just reacted to what was going on around her.

 

Pode

"Where is human nature so weak as in the bookstore?"
â Henry Ward Beecher
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pode
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


debbook wrote:
I had a little bit of a problem with the blue light of the magic. I think it would have been better without a description, left up to the reader's imagination. It didn't fit with the rest of the book. It should have been alluded to as this wasn't a fantasy novel.


I like and agree with your observation. THIS WASN'T A FANTASY NOVEL. Other books make it clear early on that they are fantasies. This book tried to be real but Connie didn't seem to notice (and react accordingly) when "unreal" stuff was going on--blue light, strange garden, .......
"Where is human nature so weak as in the bookstore?"
â Henry Ward Beecher
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ponie
Posts: 359
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


pode wrote:

jholcomb wrote:

This is a bit off-subject, but for some reason, I had trouble accepting the witchcraft in the book. I've enjoyed other books with a supernatural element, but somehow Connie's abilities didn't invite suspension of disbelief--maybe because the novel was in other ways so prosaic. Did anyone else find it a little hollow?


I agree.  I've read other books that include magic, supernatural elements, dreamy stuff and they were often interesting and engaging.  Connie never rang true for me. 

 

I think parts of the book were meaningful in that the topics included in the book invited discussion.  The readers had great ideas and the discussion has been good but I think, NOT, because of the Connie, Chilton, Sam, etc. characters.  The history from Salem did elicit interest and thoughtful insights.

 

As I've said before, this was a juicy topic.  I wish the author had done a better job of developing the story.  Magic, religion and science are very current subjects.  Can we trust the scientists?  How far should religion be allowed to influence our laws?  How much of the "magic" of early years is the "science (medicine)" of today?  What "magic" is out here today? 

 

Seems to me that Connie never really thought much about anything, just reacted to what was going on around her.

 

Pode


 

Pode, as usual you ask great questions, especially here about magic, religion, and science.  The answers are often so damagingly dividing.  There seems to be no room for a "marriage" of science and religion and faith and magic...not even a willingness to reasonably talk about the possibility or (even) just a nice "dating" situation/relationship where one listens and learns of the other as the other listens and learns as well without demand and defense and agenda and judgement.  May those of us who stand rigid with our eyes tightly shut and our fingers in our ears shouting "lalalalalalalala I'm not listening" stop it right this minute!!!  Listening does not mean you agree or even condone the others beliefs or actions.  Listening means tho I may certainly take issue with what you say or do, I will honor who you are and respect our shared humanity and endeavor to have a decent interaction with you.

Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me.  Who wants to join me???

ponie
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thewanderingjew
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science

Like others, I was disappointed in the ending of the book. It really took place in the last 20 or so pages and sort of just came upon the reader without enough warning or preparation.  It also culminated too quickly for me, suddenly launching into make-believe with spells and incantations. Prior to the last few pages, I believed that Connie was using a G-d given talent rather than the pure fantasy of magic and spells. Because it was reduced to that, it wasn't that believable for me any longer.

In my opinion, the book hadn't been set up for that kind of suspension of reality, since the women charged were really innocent of witchcraft, historically. I understand now, that Deliverance was meant to be a true witch, in a long line of witches, of which Connie is the last of the line, so far. Yet, I never got that impression as I read. I thought she was a natural healer like other "witches" in other cultures where herbs and potions and incantations are used, sometimes working and sometimes not but definitely part of a culture in which cures were handed down from generation to generation.

Also, so many things were left unexplained at the end. How could she have put her hands directly into the fire and not come out more damaged? If she really was magical, I think she would have come out of the fire unscathed or she would have healed herself. Some mention was made of an herb bubbling out of the wounds in her hands which made me think of the extraordinary pain she was experiencing and yet she still used her hands to work her spells. How could she still use her hands after that experience? She mentions enduring it so we know she didn't heal them. I can't even imagine standing up after thrusting my hand into a hot fire!
In addition, how does she explain Chilton's presence in her home, incapacitated, suffering fits? How did she explain her injuries to the police whom I think she must have called to have Chilton removed or hospitalized? Otherwise, what did she do about him? I don't recall any explanations. There were so many unanswered questions that left me hanging but not necessarily the kinds of questions that would make me want to read the next book of a sequel.

 

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TRJ4SQ
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


ponie wrote:

pode wrote:

jholcomb wrote:

This is a bit off-subject, but for some reason, I had trouble accepting the witchcraft in the book. I've enjoyed other books with a supernatural element, but somehow Connie's abilities didn't invite suspension of disbelief--maybe because the novel was in other ways so prosaic. Did anyone else find it a little hollow?


I agree.  I've read other books that include magic, supernatural elements, dreamy stuff and they were often interesting and engaging.  Connie never rang true for me. 

 

I think parts of the book were meaningful in that the topics included in the book invited discussion.  The readers had great ideas and the discussion has been good but I think, NOT, because of the Connie, Chilton, Sam, etc. characters.  The history from Salem did elicit interest and thoughtful insights.

 

As I've said before, this was a juicy topic.  I wish the author had done a better job of developing the story.  Magic, religion and science are very current subjects.  Can we trust the scientists?  How far should religion be allowed to influence our laws?  How much of the "magic" of early years is the "science (medicine)" of today?  What "magic" is out here today? 

 

Seems to me that Connie never really thought much about anything, just reacted to what was going on around her.

 

Pode


 

Pode, as usual you ask great questions, especially here about magic, religion, and science.  The answers are often so damagingly dividing.  There seems to be no room for a "marriage" of science and religion and faith and magic...not even a willingness to reasonably talk about the possibility or (even) just a nice "dating" situation/relationship where one listens and learns of the other as the other listens and learns as well without demand and defense and agenda and judgement.  May those of us who stand rigid with our eyes tightly shut and our fingers in our ears shouting "lalalalalalalala I'm not listening" stop it right this minute!!!  Listening does not mean you agree or even condone the others beliefs or actions.  Listening means tho I may certainly take issue with what you say or do, I will honor who you are and respect our shared humanity and endeavor to have a decent interaction with you.

Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me.  Who wants to join me???


 

Here, Here!

 

There is so much out there that we do not understand. I believe that even the most brilliant scientists & theologians must concur with this statement.

 

How can we ever advance if we refuse to open our minds to possibility, even if it's only to hear and not judge.

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pode
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


thewanderingjew wrote:

Like others, I was disappointed in the ending of the book. It really took place in the last 20 or so pages and sort of just came upon the reader without enough ...
.

 


I agree.  There were so many possibilities and so little explanation.

 

Pode

"Where is human nature so weak as in the bookstore?"
â Henry Ward Beecher
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TRJ4SQ
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


pode wrote: 

 

 How much of the "magic" of early years is the "science (medicine)" of today?  What "magic" is out here today? 

 

 

 

Pode


I have been sharing a few aspects of the book relating to natural healers being accused of witchcraft with a dear friend . He is often a partner in philosophical discussions of "science, religion and magic" and sent me this video on the possibility of channeling Chi (universal energy or energy flow) or Qi (also known as Qigong) for the art of natural healing.

 

What I found most interesting was that the "patients" sometimes seemed to be in "fits". The Chi master also tells that his abilities come from daily meditation and secret practices passed down through generations of ancients. Since it's an internet video and I don't know the true source, you can take it with or without a grain of salt as you prefer.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAB0dbc3Es&feature=related

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pode
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Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


ponie wrote:

pode wrote:

jholcomb wrote:

This is a bit off-subject, but for some reason, I had trouble accepting the witchcraft in the book. I've enjoyed other books with a supernatural element, but somehow Connie's abilities didn't invite suspension of disbelief--maybe because the novel was in other ways so prosaic. Did anyone else find it a little hollow?


I agree.  I've read other books that include magic, supernatural elements, dreamy stuff and they were often interesting and engaging.  Connie never rang true for me. 

 

I think parts of the book were meaningful in that the topics included in the book invited discussion.  The readers had great ideas and the discussion has been good but I think, NOT, because of the Connie, Chilton, Sam, etc. characters.  The history from Salem did elicit interest and thoughtful insights.

 

As I've said before, this was a juicy topic.  I wish the author had done a better job of developing the story.  Magic, religion and science are very current subjects.  Can we trust the scientists?  How far should religion be allowed to influence our laws?  How much of the "magic" of early years is the "science (medicine)" of today?  What "magic" is out here today? 

 

Seems to me that Connie never really thought much about anything, just reacted to what was going on around her.

 

Pode


 

Pode, as usual you ask great questions, especially here about magic, religion, and science.  The answers are often so damagingly dividing.  There seems to be no room for a "marriage" of science and religion and faith and magic...not even a willingness to reasonably talk about the possibility or (even) just a nice "dating" situation/relationship where one listens and learns of the other as the other listens and learns as well without demand and defense and agenda and judgement.  May those of us who stand rigid with our eyes tightly shut and our fingers in our ears shouting "lalalalalalalala I'm not listening" stop it right this minute!!!  Listening does not mean you agree or even condone the others beliefs or actions.  Listening means tho I may certainly take issue with what you say or do, I will honor who you are and respect our shared humanity and endeavor to have a decent interaction with you.

Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me.  Who wants to join me???


 

Sure!  Thanks for the invitation.

Seems like that's the only way we'll make progress in our very diverse world!!!

 

Just of added interest.....there's an article this morning on MSN Slate, WHY THE WICKED WITCH ISN'T DEAD. THE TIMELESS ALLURE OF WITCH HUNTING.    It discussed women in the world today who are hunted, tortured and discarded. 

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2216429/?gt1=38001

 

Pode

"Where is human nature so weak as in the bookstore?"
â Henry Ward Beecher
Inspired Contributor
pode
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎01-30-2009

Re: Magic, Religion, and Science


TRJ4SQ wrote:

pode wrote: 

 

 How much of the "magic" of early years is the "science (medicine)" of today?  What "magic" is out here today? 

 

 

 

Pode


I have been sharing a few aspects of the book relating to natural healers being accused of witchcraft with a dear friend . He is often a partner in philosophical discussions of "science, religion and magic" and sent me this video on the possibility of channeling Chi (universal energy or energy flow) or Qi (also known as Qigong) for the art of natural healing.

 

What I found most interesting was that the "patients" sometimes seemed to be in "fits". The Chi master also tells that his abilities come from daily meditation and secret practices passed down through generations of ancients. Since it's an internet video and I don't know the true source, you can take it with or without a grain of salt as you prefer.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAB0dbc3Es&feature=related


 

Thanks for the link!

I posted a response to ponie with a link to an MSN Slate article on witches today that you might find interesting.  http://www.slate.com/id/2216429/?gt1=38001

 

Pode

"Where is human nature so weak as in the bookstore?"
â Henry Ward Beecher