Mothers and Daughters

[GSB65]

So far all the mother-daughter relationships seem to be a bit strained.

Connie's relationship with Grace is a very strained one, but you can still see the feeling that there is love there.

You really get the sense that Grace and Sophia didn't have a good relationship if she left home so soon, though I'm sure we'll find out more in later chapters.

You get the feeling from the description of her house that Sophia wanted to be isolated from others.  She seems to be involved in herbal medicines of something by the gardens and the jar found in the house.  I haven't read far enough to know for sure.

I don't really have much of a feel for Mercy and Deliverance yet.

[DebsScott]

I believe Grace is very much aware of herself and her "powers".  She knows she's a witch.  She has assigned her daughter, who she loves very much, to clean this house of her mother's so that Connie will be introduced into what she is...a witch.

While the relationship of Connie and Grace seems to be strained at best, they love each other.  Grace isn't so much not interested in Connie's academic career as she is in getting Connie to Sophia's house so she can discover who she really is.  Connie, on the other hand, is more like her Granna Sophia.  Perhaps she's a bit more rigid in her life...a bit more regimental.  That's where she and Grace clash. 

I like Grace...she reminds me a bit of..well...me.  

Deliverance and Mercy...hmmm...I see a mother trying to raise a daughter to be mannerly and good and responsible.  Responsible not only for her chores but for the powers that she has been given.  Not too much on them yet.

[ponie]

I just meandered thru all 3 pages (so far) of posts on this topic...very interesting and insightful.

I see Grace and Connie's relationship as conflicted.

[Made uneasy by conflicting impulses (The Free Dictionary)]

[Full of conflicting emotions or impulses (Dictionary.com)]

I see Grace as neglectful (in not remembering or downplaying such a huge event in Connie's life); certainly uninterested and self-absorbed.  Is Grace a non-conformist "free spirit" or is she ditzy?

I think Sophia was eccentric; certainly making a statement to people of her day with no phone or electricity.  Much like those who have no TV in our day.

I think Connie is the way she is in reaction to her mother.

As responsible and grounded and level-headed as we all have said Connie is, she still wanted, wished for, would have liked it a lot if her mom had remembered not only her big event but the magnitude of it.

I think Connie goes to Granna's house because she is responsible but also she cannot say no to her mother.  She has yet to fully separate and individuate from her mother making her unable to say no and not suffer loss, if only emotionally.  A comment by Liz on p.32 makes the point:

"So I suppose it's Grace's fault that you said yes...Really, Connie, this is your doing as well."

Liz calls her out on it!  I think Liz is saying "own your stuff girlfriend!"

A question: is a healer and a witch the same thing?

I don't think Grace wants to grow old.  Connie calling her Grace could be a sign of disrespect unless Grace has told Connie to call her Grace.

At this point I don't think Grace sent Connie to settle Granna's house for any other reason that it was inconvenient for Grace.  Hope that's not too harsh.  I am open to whatever may be coming!!!  And I don't mind being proved wrong, that's just another way of changing!

[quinncx]

I think Grace and Connie have a fairly typical relationship in many respects.  I can only imagine that Connie's teenage years were tempestuous as her type-A tendencies warred with Grace's more laissez-faire attitude.  Though Grace doesn't seem focused on Connie's needs, Connie is also pretty dismissive of the things that are important to Grace.  I think that Deliverance and Mercy have a relationship complicated by their situation and the time in which they lived.  I think it is especially interesting that both were the only daughters of only daughters, a reality which has to complicate things.

[gringorn]

I like the snips of conversations between Connie and Grace and also the author letting us into Connie's thoughts about her mom.  Yes, it seems obvious they come from a line of witches.  The thing I think is funny is several people thought Connie and her granna are alike.  I don't think that at all....the only thing we really know is that granna has a housefull of herbs and probably attached alot of importance to trying to maintain her connection to the past by not modernizing her house.

Another thought that has crossed my mind is that isn't it possible that Grace's relationship with her own mom was not a good one cause Granna thought Grace was a flake and treating her "gift" or ability in a non'traditional way?

[gringorn]

Though Grace doesn't seem focused on Connie's needs, Connie is also pretty dismissive of the things that are important to Grace.

Wow, good point! Could be I missed that because I still think in the "traditional" way about witchcraft.....pointed hats and a wart on the nose and ignored the fact that these abilities/and or beliefs are actually important to some people even if they don't seem silly.

[CathyB]

I agree Debs. I think Grace knows who and what she is. I also think that she sent Connie to her mother's house with the hopes that Connie will figure things out for herself and come to terms with what she is. If Grace just told Connie, she would probably not believe her.

CathyB

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DebsScott wrote:

I believe Grace is very much aware of herself and her "powers".  She knows she's a witch.  She has assigned her daughter, who she loves very much, to clean this house of her mother's so that Connie will be introduced into what she is...a witch.

While the relationship of Connie and Grace seems to be strained at best, they love each other.  Grace isn't so much not interested in Connie's academic career as she is in getting Connie to Sophia's house so she can discover who she really is.  Connie, on the other hand, is more like her Granna Sophia.  Perhaps she's a bit more rigid in her life...a bit more regimental.  That's where she and Grace clash. 

I like Grace...she reminds me a bit of..well...me.  

Deliverance and Mercy...hmmm...I see a mother trying to raise a daughter to be mannerly and good and responsible.  Responsible not only for her chores but for the powers that she has been given.  Not too much on them yet.

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[Immortal-Spirit]

The relationship between Connie and Grace is very strained.  They are like oil and water. 

I'm wondering if the "forgetfulness" of Grace concerning Connie's test is on purpose.

[Immortal-Spirit]

CathyB, that is a good point.  What all of the sudden does Grace tell Connie to clean Granna's house.  I don't think it has anything to do with taxes.

[emmagrace]

I was thinking the same thing DebsScott!!

[mv5ocean]

Well I definitely think not only is there a generation gap.......there is a lifestyle gap.  They have two different outlooks on life, although I do agree with what others have posted that Connie is possibly trying to get her mother's appreciation by going and doing this "housecleaning."  She agreed too easily for someone who has such a strained relationship so I think she must secretly want her mother's appreciation, but she might not even realize it herself.

[krb2g]

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mv5ocean wrote:
  She agreed too easily for someone who has such a strained relationship so I think she must secretly want her mother's appreciation, but she might not even realize it herself.

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I completely agree with this statement.

[VeraC]

I've been going through the posts and I agree with you, CathyB and Debs.  It seems like Grace is just sitting back and letting Connie discover what she is - a witch.  What I can't figure out is why Connie doesn't seem to think that there is anything special about her ability to know exactly what her mother is doing when they are on the phone, as well as her other visions. We don't know exactly what Grace "sees", but I have a feeling that she has a good sense of what is going on with Connie.  Grace doesn't have the need to talk to Connie much because she feels the communication on a different level.  As does Connie... but she hasn't figured this out yet as a form of connection. She is looking for the "normal", not realizing that what she and Grace share is even a closer link.

As for Grace and her mother, I can't really make out the cause of the clash between them. To me, they seem similar. They are obviously both healers - one uses potions and the other cleans auras.  And both of them are apparently so caught up in their healing that they don't put a lot of effort into mothering. Maybe it was just typical generational rebellion.  Any thoughts?

VeraC

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CathyB wrote:

I agree Debs. I think Grace knows who and what she is. I also think that she sent Connie to her mother's house with the hopes that Connie will figure things out for herself and come to terms with what she is. If Grace just told Connie, she would probably not believe her.

CathyB

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DebsScott wrote:

I believe Grace is very much aware of herself and her "powers".  She knows she's a witch.  She has assigned her daughter, who she loves very much, to clean this house of her mother's so that Connie will be introduced into what she is...a witch.

While the relationship of Connie and Grace seems to be strained at best, they love each other.  Grace isn't so much not interested in Connie's academic career as she is in getting Connie to Sophia's house so she can discover who she really is.  Connie, on the other hand, is more like her Granna Sophia.  Perhaps she's a bit more rigid in her life...a bit more regimental.  That's where she and Grace clash. 

I like Grace...she reminds me a bit of..well...me.  

Deliverance and Mercy...hmmm...I see a mother trying to raise a daughter to be mannerly and good and responsible.  Responsible not only for her chores but for the powers that she has been given.  Not too much on them yet.

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[liisa22]

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DebsScott wrote:

I like Grace...she reminds me a bit of..well...me.  

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Funny, I was going to say this about myself!

But then, I can see myself a bit in Connie, Deliverance and Mercy as well.  Aren't I a confused soul?!

Message Edited by liisa22 on 03-31-2009 12:07 PM

[liisa22]

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bookowlie wrote:

... It made me wonder if the women from the 1600's were really witches or were just practicing herbal medicine before their time.

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I wouldn't say that they were "practicing herbal medicine before their time".  Wouldn't all medicine in those times been herbal?  There must have been something in the way they practiced it that made them more susceptible to the accusations of witchcraft.

[debbook]

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liisa22 wrote:

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bookowlie wrote:

... It made me wonder if the women from the 1600's were really witches or were just practicing herbal medicine before their time.

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I wouldn't say that they were "practicing herbal medicine before their time".  Wouldn't all medicine in those times been herbal?  There must have been something in the way they practiced it that made them more susceptible to the accusations of witchcraft.

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I think it was their success with herbal remedies that made people go to them and then when things went bad is when they got labeled as a witch instead of a healer.

[debbook]

Spoiler Alert

I found it interesting that Prudence was willing to sell the book, in order to give peace to her daughter's life. That was the only mother-daughter relationship I have seen so far with that level of sacrifice

[kiakar]

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ponie wrote:

I just meandered thru all 3 pages (so far) of posts on this topic...very interesting and insightful.

I see Grace and Connie's relationship as conflicted.

[Made uneasy by conflicting impulses (The Free Dictionary)]

[Full of conflicting emotions or impulses (Dictionary.com)]

I see Grace as neglectful (in not remembering or downplaying such a huge event in Connie's life); certainly uninterested and self-absorbed.  Is Grace a non-conformist "free spirit" or is she ditzy?

I think Sophia was eccentric; certainly making a statement to people of her day with no phone or electricity.  Much like those who have no TV in our day.

I think Connie is the way she is in reaction to her mother.

As responsible and grounded and level-headed as we all have said Connie is, she still wanted, wished for, would have liked it a lot if her mom had remembered not only her big event but the magnitude of it.

I think Connie goes to Granna's house because she is responsible but also she cannot say no to her mother.  She has yet to fully separate and individuate from her mother making her unable to say no and not suffer loss, if only emotionally.  A comment by Liz on p.32 makes the point:

"So I suppose it's Grace's fault that you said yes...Really, Connie, this is your doing as well."

Liz calls her out on it!  I think Liz is saying "own your stuff girlfriend!"

A question: is a healer and a witch the same thing?

I don't think Grace wants to grow old.  Connie calling her Grace could be a sign of disrespect unless Grace has told Connie to call her Grace.

At this point I don't think Grace sent Connie to settle Granna's house for any other reason that it was inconvenient for Grace.  Hope that's not too harsh.  I am open to whatever may be coming!!!  And I don't mind being proved wrong, that's just another way of changing!

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I have read most of the posts about the daughter and mother and I can't feel any closeness at all with these two. To me, it doesn't seem they are related. Connie said something like she wished she had remembered or known her grandmother maybe she could see som resemblence to her.  Grace seems to always hold Connie at a distance.  Maybe I am reading it all wrong and I will find out later something different entirely but they do not seem like any mother and daughter I have read about or seen before.

[MYK]

I think Connie loves her Mom.Accepts her for who she is. Understands that she made mistakes. Sadly, Connie tries so hard not to make the same mistakes. It's very typical in real life. Isn't it? Connie's mom could have used a parenting class or two. Ahem.

Sophia seemed to possess ( sorry..lol) the same characteric's as the previous occupants because she seemed to have left it in it's original form. Not much change, inside or out.

I feel she left in a hurry. She did not pack. Left plants that eventually withered and died. Left everything.

Mercy and Deliverance's relationship seems loving, understanding, typical.

[Thayer]

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krb2g wrote:
I found the relationship between Connie and Grace a little hard to believe; there is something about Grace's carefree, abandon all responsibilities and then throw them on Connie when she least needs something to worry about attitude that bothers me. I also don't buy Grace's "ignorance" of Connie's program/when she's taking orals--I think that Grace cares about her daughter, and is actually pretty intuitive (later on she knows about Sam without being told)--and given that profile, it's hard for me to believe that she'd actually not care at all about something like orals.

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I agree that Grace cares for Connie. Perhaps her attitude toward Connie's orals is just indifference. I think Grace realizes the importance to Connie but feels that there is more to her daughter's "aura" than just work. She would just like for her daughter to broaden her horizons and embrace life as she sees it. This frustrates the very serious, driven Connie.