Mothers and Daughters

[Thayer]

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DebsScott wrote:

I like Grace...she reminds me a bit of..well...me.  

Deliverance and Mercy...hmmm...I see a mother trying to raise a daughter to be mannerly and good and responsible.  Responsible not only for her chores but for the powers that she has been given.  Not too much on them yet.

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One wonders what the mother/daughter dynamic would have been expected to be in the Puritan period.  Theirs was such a rigid, stoic society. That added with the fact that the mortality rate of children was very high, would not encourage the emotional closeness some mothers enjoy with their children today.

[LoBugs]

I think that Grace and Connie have very different interests. If Connie called Grace and just started talking about auras, it would be a very different conversation. The same would be ture if Grace started talking about the history of the house or town to Connie. Connie sees Grace as childlike due to her interests, a bad assumtion I think. Connie feels the need for an adult in the relationship and since she doesn't think Grace behaves like one, she acts like one. I think Grace lets Connie take the adult role because she doesn't feel threatened by traditional roles and she understands that it's a role Connie is good at. I think Grace knows more about power than we give her credit for, in many ways.I can't get my kids to clean their bedroom never mind a house. I would act ditzy if I thought it would help.  I think she wants Connie to find her own way to her furture. This way she will have the choice as to wether she wants this to be a part of her life or she can walk away from it and never look back.

[daylilies1126]

Connie's relationship with her mother is a strange relationship.  While Connie does call her mother by her first name and doesn't seem to speak with her very often, Connie does what her mother asks of her without even questioning it, and seems to desire Grace's positive opinion of her and her work.  I think it is a very honest portrayal of a mother-daughter relationship when the daughter is in her early 20's.  While you want to distinguish yourself from your mother and get away from all that you had growing up, you still want your mother's advice, help and good opinion.  It's that time in your life that you branch out on your own.  I personally saw a lot of my relationship with my mother from a few years in this relationship.

[thewanderingjew]

I would have expected Grace to show more joy and pride in Connie's accomplishments if I based it on my reality. All children, no matter how old, want to please their parents and earn their approval. They want to make them proud. No matter how hard Connie tried, she couldn't achieve the reaction from Grace that she desired. Having only one parent meant that there was no one else who could buffer her disappointment by showing a more appropriate reaction to her. She was needy and looking for recognition.
Maybe Grace wanted different things from Connie that Connie couldn't provide. Maybe she wanted her to be more in touch with her inner self and that would have instilled more pride in her than Connie's educational achievements. I think they were on different pages of the same book. As I read, I am hoping that they find a common thread in each other and grow closer.

twj

[Melissa_W Moderator]

Even at this early stage of the novel, the relationship of Mercy and Deliverance (and because it's National Poetry Month) makes me think of the poetry of Anne Bradstreet.  She was the first woman in America to publish a book - a book of poetry titled The Tenth Muse Lately Sprung up in America in 1650.  She wrote pieces on motherhood and family. 

The Works of Anne Bradstreet 

 

[nikki824]

Connie and Grace's relationship seem causal. Grace is free-spirited, "go with the flow" while Connie is uptight and reserve.

Grace shows very little interest in her daughter career and they seem to have a buddy relationship as opposed to a loving, nuturing mother-daughter type relationship. I

I feel bad for Connie because she seems to be the responsible one.

[Bengel]

Connie and her mother are so very different and their relationship is not close. I believe that Grace is disconnected and caught up in her own reality… very self-absorbed. I know some people just like her and they are  too busy just trying to figure it all out for themselves - they can never really have a normal give and take relationship with anyone else.

 I feel that Sophia was also into “alternative healing”, medicinal herbs and such (the glass bottles everywhere in the old house). If Grace was brought up in this sort of atmosphere, is it possible that she interpreted all of this slightly differently and became involved in “new age” healing? ... hence the "hippy" lifestyle. Someone who practices  alternative medicine and herbal healing today, may have been considered a witch back in the 1600’s. Is there a family tie to Deliverance and Sophia, Grace and Connie?

Message Edited by Bengel on 04-01-2009 10:55 AM

Message Edited by Bengel on 04-01-2009 10:55 AM

Message Edited by Bengel on 04-01-2009 10:57 AM

[bibanon1]

I just received my book yesterday so I apologize if I am repeating discussions that have already taken place.

So far, the relationship between Connie and her mother reminds me of the relationship of Prudie and her mother in THE JANE AUSTEN BOOK CLUB. The hippie mom/straight-laced daughter phenomenon. They have such different values and come from such different places that it will be interesting to see how their relationship develops.

[MSReader]

With what I have read (and enjoyed) so far, I sense that Connie's relationship with her mother is one of exasperated love.  At times, Connie has had to be the parent in the relationship and that has taken a toll on her.

I give Connie a great deal of credit for understanding who her mother is but I find myself wanting to tell Connie, "Look, just talk to your mom!  Tell her what is going on in your mind so SHE can understand YOU better!!"

There is a LOT more to develop with the story so I look forward to seeing how the relationship(s) progress.

I have not read enough yet to answer the other parts... ;o)

[hookedonbooks09]

It must depend on your perspective---I had a Type-A mother and would have loved (or think I would have!) to have a free-spirit mother.  Anyway...! :-)

It's almost like the typical antagonism between mother and daughter that exists during the teenage years has continued on for Connie and her mother.  Usually by the time you are Connie's age, and live apart from each other, it's easier to accept the personality differences.  But not these two! 

I also get the impression that Connie is a little bit passive-aggressive, in all of her relationships.  Wants to be closer, but is defensive and somewhat combative, even.  This goes for her mother, Chilton and even Sam at first.  Like someone who has been wounded, waiting to pounce back.  She starts out hopeful and even bashful, but can come out of that and seem quite the opposite when provoked.

[Bridget2]

I agree with what many of you are saying, although for some reason, I am not comfortable with the use of the word "strained."  I think it has too negative of a connotation, and I really like both characters.  No, I don't think they have an easy-going relationship, and it's obvious that Connie gets easily aggravated by her mother's quirkiness, but I also think they both deeply care about one another.  Connie wants her mother's approval and interest, and is willing to put in a lot of work to clean and sell Sophia's house for her.  Grace really wants what is best for her daughter, and while she may be concerned that Connie is working too hard on something that Grace herself does not truly understand, she does want Connie to be happy.

I also think that Grace knows a lot more about this "witchiness" than she is letting on.  Imagine if Grace tried to just tell Connie the truth!  I'm guessing Connie wouldn't buy it.  Grace knows that her daughter needs to figure this out on her own.  Of course, I am not sure what exactly "this" is, but it certainly has me interested!  I can't put this book down!

[ClaudiaLuce]

I think that Grace and Connie are exceptionally close.  We must remember that Connie never really knew her father; he disappeared "over there during the war".  With Grace's free spiritedness and the setting being 1991, this leads me to believe that Connie grew up in the late 60's - 70's, when lots of kids called their parents by their first names - not at all unusual for that time period.  Grace is very attuned to Connie and what is going on in her life - she asks about the "boy" before Connie wants to mention Sam.  I feel like Grace moved away and then asked Connie to clean Sophia's house in order to give Connie the freedom to discover who she really is and who her family is, while giving her an opportunity to develop her dissertation based upon valuable resources at her disposal. 

Claudia

[JerseyAngel]

The relationship between Connie & Grace is set early on. Her mother seems to not be very attentive and seems more focused in whatever happens to be her interest at the time. Connie seems to rebel her mother by going in the opposite direction which is a life of education, purpose & structure. However, through the early chapters its obvious that she still tries to seek her mother's attention & love. As if hoping that one day her mother will truly be a mother.

[hoot]

Quite simply, I believe that girls emulate what they like about their mothers, and then work just as hard to be the opposite of their mothers flaws. This results in over-correction on the part of the girl. 

Displayed very well in this book. Grandma was stuff and uptight, Mom was a free spirit, then Connie counters that and behaves more as her grandmother, than her mother.  

[blkeyesuzi]

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hoot wrote:

Quite simply, I believe that girls emulate what they like about their mothers, and then work just as hard to be the opposite of their mothers flaws. This results in over-correction on the part of the girl. 

Displayed very well in this book. Grandma was stuff and uptight, Mom was a free spirit, then Connie counters that and behaves more as her grandmother, than her mother.  

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Excellent point!

[TRJ4SQ]

1. What is Connie's relationship like with her mother?

Obviously there is some distance and a great deal of tension on Connie's side. She feels that her mother is self-centered, self-absorbed and irresponsible. Not to be Freudian but perhaps Connie never got the love or attention she needed as a child. It sounds as though Grace had an open house to a steady stream of "artists" & other hippie types as Connie was growing up. Instead of Grace comforting her childhood tears she tells her she needs to "get centered"? This could be a sign.

2. We will come across number of mother-daughter relationships through the course of the novel. How do these women relate (or not) to each other?

Sophie & Grace = Distance. It sounds like Sophie is rooted in the old ways and Grace is a product of the more modern 60's. Connie knows little of Sophie because of the distance between her mother & grandmother. The storyline hints there may be similarities in a family legacy of physick, alchemy & mystical interests.

Grace & Connie = Distance. Grace doesn’t appear to take much interest in Connie’s academic career or her life in general. Grace is carefree while Connie is the serious one. Connie has also been very involved in her studies and admits that she hasn’t kept in touch with Grace as often as she’d like. This distance between mother & daughter may also be a family legacy but that remains to be seen.

3. What can we make out about Connie's grandmother, Sophia, from her house?

I may be misleading myself, but I have no doubt that she was a practitioner and herbalist who had a deep connection to the old ways. I base this perspective on her “spice jar” collection, the contents of her herb garden and the lack of modernization to her home.

4. Do you get a sense of Mercy and Deliverance's relationship this early?

Not at this point but I’m still wondering if Deliverance might be Connie’s ancestor. If this be the case, we may see the same mother & daughter distance with Deliverance & Mercy.

[TRJ4SQ]

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kren250 wrote:

Connie and her mother are so different that it's hard for them to have much of a relationship. I think they just don't know how to relate to each other, or really have anything to say to each other.

The mother-daughter relationships in the book are interesting to see. Grace and her mother didn't seem to have much in common with each other either.

Sophia seems very old fashioned! Also liked to garden. This was another part of the book that I thought was so predictable, it's pretty obvious what the deal is with Sophia when you start reading the descritions of the house and garden.

I didn't get much of a sense of Mercy and Deliverance's relationship this early.

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Very well said!

[TRJ4SQ]

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momgee wrote:

Okay, so some of it may be predictable, but from what I have read so far it is still a very enjoyable book. I just love some of her descriptions, especially when Connie and Liz first see the house  from pg 38 . . .."house clad in vegetation and neglect."  "...over the front door draped a purple -green wisteria, it's thick syrupy smell puddling in the air" and on pg 40 ..." the silent house stated back at her wizened and aloof".  It's almost as if the house is also a  character in the story. These descriptions brought some vivid images to my mind.

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The descriptions also gave me vivid images. The author does a great job of bringing the house to life!

[TRJ4SQ]

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DSaff wrote:

My first impression of the relationship between Connie and Grace is that of role reversal. Connie seems to be the more responsible one, and seems to be aggravated that her mother can't remember dates and events. Grace is the non-conformist, while Connie is trying to make it in the academic world, keeping her feet on the ground. As I kept reading, however, I wondered if Grace was letting Connie go in order to bring her back to her heritage. Grace is very comfortable being a free-spirit, while Connie seems to want to be tied down. I think that changes when she reaches her granna's house. It seems that Grace may have waited until now to give Connie the opportunity to explore. What is Grace hoping Connie will discover? Surely there is much more to come here!

 The relationship between Grace and Sophie doesn't seem to have been a good one. Grace didn't visit her mother, and without a phone, I wonder if they kept in contact at all. Could Grace have been running away from her true self? That remains to be seen, but something is definitely amiss in their relationship. But, Grace seems better able to cope with an eccentric lifestyle than Connie is.

The next mother and daughter are Deliverance and Mercy. Mercy definitely has powers of some kind and I think Deliverance knows. Deliverance is trying to teach Mercy about being responsible (i.e. kitchen work), but I can't help thinking that Mercy is wise beyond her years. One quote really got me about the strength, or weakness, of Deliverance.

"Shhhhhhh, shhhhhh," the girl's father soothed, and Mercy looked up at her parents and reflected that she had never before seen her mother cry." pg. 106

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These are really great observations. I didn't pick up on the possibility that Grace was consciously putting Connie in a position with Sophie's house.

Nor did I guess that Mercy's parents were teaching responsibility because of her abilities. I just assumed it was the Puritan way. Thanks for bringing this to light!

[TRJ4SQ]

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ponie wrote:

I just meandered thru all 3 pages (so far) of posts on this topic...very interesting and insightful.

I see Grace and Connie's relationship as conflicted.

[Made uneasy by conflicting impulses (The Free Dictionary)]

[Full of conflicting emotions or impulses (Dictionary.com)]

I see Grace as neglectful (in not remembering or downplaying such a huge event in Connie's life); certainly uninterested and self-absorbed.  Is Grace a non-conformist "free spirit" or is she ditzy?

I think Sophia was eccentric; certainly making a statement to people of her day with no phone or electricity.  Much like those who have no TV in our day.

I think Connie is the way she is in reaction to her mother.

As responsible and grounded and level-headed as we all have said Connie is, she still wanted, wished for, would have liked it a lot if her mom had remembered not only her big event but the magnitude of it.

I think Connie goes to Granna's house because she is responsible but also she cannot say no to her mother.  She has yet to fully separate and individuate from her mother making her unable to say no and not suffer loss, if only emotionally.  A comment by Liz on p.32 makes the point:

"So I suppose it's Grace's fault that you said yes...Really, Connie, this is your doing as well."

Liz calls her out on it!  I think Liz is saying "own your stuff girlfriend!"

A question: is a healer and a witch the same thing?

I don't think Grace wants to grow old.  Connie calling her Grace could be a sign of disrespect unless Grace has told Connie to call her Grace.

At this point I don't think Grace sent Connie to settle Granna's house for any other reason that it was inconvenient for Grace.  Hope that's not too harsh.  I am open to whatever may be coming!!!  And I don't mind being proved wrong, that's just another way of changing!

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I have to agree with pretty much everything you've said here. Great observations!

BTW...We have no "live" TV in our household. We only watch DVD's. No cell phone either. Ahh...I must be a modern eccentic!