Mothers and Daughters

[Aradanryl]

---

LoBugs wrote:
I can't get my kids to clean their bedroom never mind a house. I would act ditzy if I thought it would help. 

---

<grins>  You and me both!!  

[januttall]

---

Bridget2 wrote:

I agree with what many of you are saying, although for some reason, I am not comfortable with the use of the word "strained."  I think it has too negative of a connotation, and I really like both characters.  No, I don't think they have an easy-going relationship, and it's obvious that Connie gets easily aggravated by her mother's quirkiness, but I also think they both deeply care about one another. 

---

Kudos to you for picking up on this, Bridget!  From p. 161 (as Connie is reading through one of Prudence's diaries). 

"Why Prudence had paid no visits to her mother in the proceeding four years before they combined households, Connie could not fathom.  Had they not gotten along?  Of course mothers and daughters with strong personalities might see the world from very different points of few.  She wrinkled her nose, uncomfortably aware of this echoing truth in her relationship with Grace.  Or Grace's relationship with Sophia, for that matter."

[candeny6]

I think Connie cares for, and is much more similar to, her mother than she yet realizes.  I think Grace is aware of it, but Connie isn't yet.

[Bonnie824]

---

abbyg7 wrote:

I feel a little different about the relationship between Connie and Grace then others.  I think that Connie expects to be the center of her mothers attention and when she's not she gets her feelings hurt and almost pouts like a little child.  When Connie is returning the call to her mother, at first she feels "a rising warmth of affection", then when Grace seems to have forgotten about her orals, she becomes angry.  It says " her voice devolving into the same stern, disappointed chill that it used to have when Connie was a teenager."  Later, when Connie is thinking of calling Grace about something, she makes a comment about "assuming Grace was even home to answer the phone."   I think Grace also has a life of her own, that doesn't always revolve around Connie.  They don't live near each other and  Connie is busy with her studies.  Just because Grace is her mother, it doesn't mean she has to be totally involved in Connies life.

It is more logical for Connie to clean out her grandmothers house because she is so much closer than Grace is.   But I think Grace has a motive for asking her to do it, too much time has passed since the house has been vacant for it just to be an issue of taxes.

---

ITA Abby. Connie is a grown young woman even though she is still in school. I do think the Orals were a big deal, and most mothers would have remembered them, especially in an only child, but I think that is more a difference in what each thinks of is important in Connie's life. Grace is more interested in the possible love interest.

[skiibunny1213]

I literally could not physic(k)ally put this book down.  I finished it in a matter of days... it was so gripping and fun to read!  I will try not to give away any of the details in my comments for those who haven't finished yet.

Although the book spans hundreds of years, one of the things Howe illustrates as constant is the relationship between the mothers and daughters in this book.  No matter what the era or the hardship, there is always some tension and struggle to understand each other... more so on the daughter's part than the mother's.  However, the fact that this seems to replicate itself with each mother-daughter set seemed to tell me something about the underlying theme of the book.  The idea of "rootedness" is not something we think about much in today's society, but it is a huge factor in our own personal self-development and discovery.  Whether we find this rootedness through a place, community or belief system, part of growing up is finding your roots, and then passing on this rootedness to your children.  This book is not only the exploration of the "roots" that started with Deliverance Dane, but also Connie's search for her own place in the world.  Part of the strain between these mothers and daughters is the fact that the daughters are still trying to discover their "rootedness," while the mothers are attempting to show the way while still keeping enough space to let the daughters figure it out themselves.  This precarious balance is seen in each relationship in the story and Howe weaves an excellent tale using this theme.

[ponie]

---

skiibunny1213 wrote:

...Part of the strain between these mothers and daughters is the fact that the daughters are still trying to discover their "rootedness," while the mothers are attempting to show the way while still keeping enough space to let the daughters figure it out themselves.  This precarious balance is seen in each relationship in the story and Howe weaves an excellent tale using this theme.

---

Well said skiibunny1213!  I just wish Grace could do what she is doing in a less (seemingly) disinterested and hurtful manner.  Are there not more encouraging ways to encourage "while still keeping enough space"?

[biljounc63]

 On page 161 there seems to be a theme that all of the mother/daughter relationships over the generations have had trouble with each other.

[mdreik]

It seems Connie was left to solve all the puzzles on her own without any help from her mother. It seemed strange to me that the mother would sit by and let her daughter go through all this on her own when she apparently had so much to offer. Perhaps it speaks to their relationship and their personality differences. Although it would appear that they actually have a lot more in common with each other than Connie would think.

[m3girl]

Connie and Grace don't have a unique relationship - actually it's not that different than the one I have with my mother - except Connie is much more accommodating.  I'm not sure I would have dropped everything and moved out to Marblehead to clean out my Grandmother's home - especially when I saw the condition it was in.  I would have gone to see it first and then told Grace to come on back to MA and do it herself.  Grace doesn't seem to be very busy - and seems to totally ignore the fact that Connie has a life and responsibilities.  I am hoping that there is more to Grace than what is provided in the first six/seven chapters.

Grandmother - humm, that's a tough one.  The house has been left for nature to reclaim it for twenty years.  I don't think that in the first six/seven chapters Connie has even gotten close to learning about her grandmother - and hope she does.

Little Mercy seems like a wonderful child - and her interest in what her mother does might just be how this sort of information was passed from generation to generation.  I guess I will have to read more to see more of their relationship.

susan 

[shelley727]

I don't think the mother/daughter relationship is strained.  I think they have a different way thinking.  Mom is more of a free spirit.  Connie is straight-laced, organized, fact driven. 

I feel they love each other they just haven't really connected.  Grace never really connected with her mother, so maybe she can't connect or desn't know how to connect with Connie.  Connie hasn't had that connection so she doesn't know how to deal with it either.  Hopefully they will be able to come together & have a relationship--maybe the house, or Granna will somehow connect them....

[aprilh]

I'm only on chapter 12, but so far, I find it interesting that all the women in this story have one child each and it is always a girl.  Deliverance had Mercy, Mercy had Prudence, Prudence had Patience. It is mentioned (on pg. 161) that all the women outlive their husbands. Not only that, but Connie realizes that all the men die in accidents. "Violent, wretched accidents."

I'm wondering if Connie is related to Deliverance. If so, their family fits in with these women too. Sophia had Grace who then had Connie. Also, Sophia and Grace both outlived their husbands.

[Thayer]

I think that the lack of closeness in the relationship between Connie and her mother is in some part the fault of her own. She is angered that her mother doesn't seem to remember her orals, but I wonder if Connie has any inkling of the activities which her mother pursues and may feel are equally important but unremarked upon.

Connie seems to possess the pompousness of youth as she "as an adult views her mother with sympathy." She admittedly rebels against her mother's flexibility and freedom which help her condone her own drive for predictability and order. Some of the fault for the somewhat uncomfortable relationship lay with Connie. I do think that as the novel progresses and Connie "comes into her own," if you will, that their relationship becomes somewhat less foreign to both of them.

[Sassy398]

o.k., I realize people will have different personalities,including mothers and daughters...

and maybe it seems like there's a little role revervsal between connie and her mom.

Down deep the love each other and that's what really matters. Now for the anchestors

from many years ago are somewhat connected to the simularity of todays relatives.

This is only an observation....but if think about it might have a message?  Thinking about

the names of the characters that were given, it made think a little.  Fiist off...Deliverence

had the daughter Mercy, then Mercy had Prudence, then Prudence had Patience.

Now does all of these girls names possibley mean something???

[kboston]

Connie's relationship with her mother seems somehwhat strained.  Connie thinks her mother's head is off in the clouds and not where it should be, taking care of her responsibilities or remembering important times in Connie' life, as mothers"should" or are expected to.

[ponie]

Has anyone else noticed that with their phone conversations Connie is always surprised (Mom! How did you know?) when Grace "sees" or "knows" what Connie is or has been doing but Grace is never surprised when Connie does the same thing???  With Grace the conversation just flows on.  (Yes I'm making Samosas...can't get the consistency right...they can be so greasy...!)  p.130-131  Grace never gives pause or questions Connie's "knowing" tho Connie herself would say she was only "hazarding a guess", not yet owning that what her mother "knows" and does and can do, she can and does as well.

[TRJ4SQ]

---

abbyg7 wrote:

I feel a little different about the relationship between Connie and Grace then others.  I think that Connie expects to be the center of her mothers attention and when she's not she gets her feelings hurt and almost pouts like a little child.  When Connie is returning the call to her mother, at first she feels "a rising warmth of affection", then when Grace seems to have forgotten about her orals, she becomes angry.  It says " her voice devolving into the same stern, disappointed chill that it used to have when Connie was a teenager."  Later, when Connie is thinking of calling Grace about something, she makes a comment about "assuming Grace was even home to answer the phone."   I think Grace also has a life of her own, that doesn't always revolve around Connie.  They don't live near each other and  Connie is busy with her studies.  Just because Grace is her mother, it doesn't mean she has to be totally involved in Connies life.

It is more logical for Connie to clean out her grandmothers house because she is so much closer than Grace is.   But I think Grace has a motive for asking her to do it, too much time has passed since the house has been vacant for it just to be an issue of taxes.

---

This in an interesting and fresh perspective on Connie & Grace's relationship. I could see where it's possible.

I do agree with you about Connie being closer to the house but I think cleaning out the house is something they should have done together as a matter of respect for Sophie.

[kiakar]

---

ponie wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that with their phone conversations Connie is always surprised (Mom! How did you know?) when Grace "sees" or "knows" what Connie is or has been doing but Grace is never surprised when Connie does the same thing???  With Grace the conversation just flows on.  (Yes I'm making Samosas...can't get the consistency right...they can be so greasy...!)  p.130-131  Grace never gives pause or questions Connie's "knowing" tho Connie herself would say she was only "hazarding a guess", not yet owning that what her mother "knows" and does and can do, she can and does as well.

---

Yes, I also feel that there is alot no one is  saying about this. Or alot of information is not being revealed just yet. Because it seems  they both pick up on each others  good and bad intincts. I think they both are aware of boths senses.

[AMoriarty]

I think the only problem with Connie and Grace's relationship is Connie. She appears intolerant of her mother. (And she seems slightly needy for a woman who is working towards a doctorate degree.) Seemingly she had been independent for some time. Their relationship is not unlike most mothers and daughters but Connie seems to be unable to see past her needs in regards to her mother to the fact that Grace has her own life as well. That being said, it is obvious they love one another and I bet when Connie sees her mother as a woman with something more to offer her than motherly validation things will come together for them.

[Deltadawn]

Debs - I agree! Your response is extremely well said and insightful!

---

DebsScott wrote:

I believe Grace is very much aware of herself and her "powers".  She knows she's a witch.  She has assigned her daughter, who she loves very much, to clean this house of her mother's so that Connie will be introduced into what she is...a witch.

While the relationship of Connie and Grace seems to be strained at best, they love each other.  Grace isn't so much not interested in Connie's academic career as she is in getting Connie to Sophia's house so she can discover who she really is.  Connie, on the other hand, is more like her Granna Sophia.  Perhaps she's a bit more rigid in her life...a bit more regimental.  That's where she and Grace clash. 

I like Grace...she reminds me a bit of..well...me.  

Deliverance and Mercy...hmmm...I see a mother trying to raise a daughter to be mannerly and good and responsible.  Responsible not only for her chores but for the powers that she has been given.  Not too much on them yet.

---

Message Edited by Deltadawn on 04-08-2009 08:51 PM

[mattzay]

I don't know if Connie and her mother have a relationship or if Connie merely tolerates her. They are very different from each other. Connie is a more academic, concrete person. She focuses more on what she knows instead of what she believes. Grace, is a more free-spirited person who appears to be more magical. Sophia, seems more similar to Connie yet her garden contained plants and herbs that would or could have been used to create medicines or potions.

Maybe that is why Grace sends Connie to clear out her house. She wants Connie to understand a side of her that she did not know existed. Connie's meetings with her grandmother were few and far between so she never really had the chance to know her.