Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 15

[TRJ4SQ]

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PiperMurphy wrote:

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

I knew Connie was going to revive the dead plants! Hmmm, that could come in handy as I've had more than a few of the crispy brown little creatures.

The plant incantation is actually a prayer. The first part goes something like...FATHER IN HEAVEN, I BEG YOUR GENEROSITY/KINDNESS....WASTED PLANT...but I couldn't translate the rest.

I must have missed something about Temperance Hobbs. Can anyone recall a reference? I guess she must be the link between Sophie & Patience. What do you all think?

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The only reference to Temperance Hobbs is her portrait. I also assumed that she was a link between Sophie and Patience.

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Thanks for helping me clarify that! 

Wonder if the author is saving this mystery for a "big bang" later. Do you think she'll show up again?

[TRJ4SQ]

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CathyB wrote:

I too think that Chilton is responsible for Sam's condition. I don't think he has any 'magical' powers though - if he did he would have used them himself to find the book.

CathyB

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

CHAPTER 18: 

If Connie knows where the book may be, how can she not go and search for it? I'd be knocking the doors down!

Arlo is definitely a magical chameleon type character. Appearing here, materializing thereand blending with the background colors.

It's odd that before, Connie wouldn't touch the mandrake root and now she is turning it over in her hands wondering if it's safe for the compost pile. I think this subtly marks a change in her perspective showing less fear for the art.

I think Sam is bewitched and it happened when he drank the water judging from it's metallic taste. This theory is derived from the method of divination using the person's water and metal pins or nails. I assume it was done by Professor Chilton to encourage Connie to find the book faster.

INTERLUDE:

It’s cool that the author refers back to the shuffling on mental drawers to seek the solution for a pressing situation. Deliverance’s story seems headed for culmination as is Connie’s.

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I don't think Chilton has divine foresight or powers in the same manner as the ladies but he does know an awful lot about alchemy aka chemistry. It probably would be a trick for him to whip up some noxious brew and I wouldn't put it past him.

[TRJ4SQ]

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fordmg wrote:

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

I love the character of the auction house book expert but I think I may have missed something. How did he know about Connie and why did he think she was a discerning collector?

I still can't figure out why Connie is hiding Sam from Grace. Any ideas on this?

It sounds like Grace is telling Connie that there will soon be a shift in the rhythm of life. It could be Connie's growing awareness but I think there is more.

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I think Connie called the auction house ahead of time to say what she was looking for.  That is why the expert was looking up her info as she came in.   I think he made an assumption about Connie based on her inquiry.

MG

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Thanks!

I must have missed it as I was up way past my bedtime reading. (A little bleary eyed)

[eadieburke]

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

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Danimal79 wrote:

I thought the selections from the King James Bible (at the beginning of Part II) were very interesting, particularly the first one:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."  

The "word of God" and the role that God plays in relation to Connie and her Puritan ancestors is seen again and again throughout this book.  I'm very curious to see how this connection will play out!

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This also intriqued me and I still haven't figured out the connection. I feel like I should know and I'm just being dense. It's going to bug me until I (or someone else) figures it out. Please be sure to post if "you get it".

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In regards to this verse, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Word and it tells us that God always was and always will be and that the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit has always co-existed.

I believe the connection with Connie is found in the translation of the spell where she invokes and uses many forms of calling upon God to cast out the demons.
 

[TRJ4SQ]

Excellent! Thank you!

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eadieburke wrote:

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

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Danimal79 wrote:

I thought the selections from the King James Bible (at the beginning of Part II) were very interesting, particularly the first one:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."  

The "word of God" and the role that God plays in relation to Connie and her Puritan ancestors is seen again and again throughout this book.  I'm very curious to see how this connection will play out!

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This also intriqued me and I still haven't figured out the connection. I feel like I should know and I'm just being dense. It's going to bug me until I (or someone else) figures it out. Please be sure to post if "you get it".

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In regards to this verse, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Word and it tells us that God always was and always will be and that the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit has always co-existed.

I believe the connection with Connie is found in the translation of the spell where she invokes and uses many forms of calling upon God to cast out the demons.
 

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[TRJ4SQ]

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

11. & 12. Why does Chilton say he's "not a sexist?" How does this lead Connie to find the book?

Women were not allowed to voice opinion in scientific thought throughout the dark ages. As with Deliverance, those with ability, understanding or voice were often condemned. Professor Chilton doesn't mind if Connie is the one to make the discovery because he knows she holds the key. She holds the key wholly because she is a woman. This is the reason the Philosopher's Stone has not been discovered before. Because no merit was placed in the scientific thoughts of women. Connie finds the book based on this principle.

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I wanted to clarify this part. I think that the incantation for the Philosopher's Stone can only be done by a woman. Perhaps only by a woman from Deliverance's line.  That's why Chilton needs Connie.

[mv5ocean]

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maude40 wrote:
I can't imagine how the women and children got through the times in Salem during the witch trials. Pages 294-302 where Deliverance is jailed with 4 year old Dorcas Good and Goody Osborne was a very depressing section. You could almost feel the filth and the rats and the dampness and dank atmosphere they were forced to live in. I thought Ms. Howe wrote a vivid description of how conditions probably were during this horrilbe incident in history. Yvonne

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I too felt this depth of this section and also spent time thinking about the little 4 year old girl separated from her mother who was further down the way. That in itself would be so hard to bear praying that someone was taking care of her and maybe even hearing her cries occasionally. Worse than all your suffering would be knowing your child was suffering.

[PB684]

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

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PiperMurphy wrote:

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

I knew Connie was going to revive the dead plants! Hmmm, that could come in handy as I've had more than a few of the crispy brown little creatures.

The plant incantation is actually a prayer. The first part goes something like...FATHER IN HEAVEN, I BEG YOUR GENEROSITY/KINDNESS....WASTED PLANT...but I couldn't translate the rest.

I must have missed something about Temperance Hobbs. Can anyone recall a reference? I guess she must be the link between Sophie & Patience. What do you all think?

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The only reference to Temperance Hobbs is her portrait. I also assumed that she was a link between Sophie and Patience.

---

Thanks for helping me clarify that! 

Wonder if the author is saving this mystery for a "big bang" later. Do you think she'll show up again?

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I'm hoping that we will see Temperance Hobbs in a sequel. I too wondered why she was mentioned only briefly...and did you pick up on the mention of a dog?

PB684

[kboston]

If Connie now sees that Grace has these significant and ancient powers, but just wrapped up in the language and style of her time, then, what would Connie's language and style be? How can she "come into her own" as a witch as well? Has she done this yet?

I think Connie will "come into her own" as a witch, when she accepts what is happening and that what is happening is so because she made it happen (not a coincidence as she would like to believe).

Is Sam one of the "unfortunate" men of this line? Is Grace right? What do you supposed has "cursed" them? What are his "fitts?" What do you predict for Sam? (Of course, for those who haven't read ahead yet!)

Sam and Connie are meant to be and will be able to get through this and make everything work for the best.

How are the revelations of these chapters changing Connie? Has her relationship with her mother changed now?

Connie is beginning to understand what her mother was saying all of those times when she thought her mother wasn't paying attention to her at all.  This is bringing them closer to each other, because Connie understands her mother better and knows she's not flighty and only thinking about herself.

[PiperMurphy]

I've been thinking about Chilton because he is such an intreging character. I've got a couple questions.

How did Chilton know about Sam? I may have missed something, but I don't remember that Connie mentioned Sam to him. Her meetings with Chilton were all business. Also, she wasn't letting on that the relationship was important to her. Chilton did say that he had been doing his own research, but he doesn't reveal what it was.

Also, why was Chilton so convinced that the physick book was his missing link? He only had Connie's description to go by and she was calling it a recipe book. Maybe it was his arrogance? Wishful thinking? Desperation?

[canterbear]

One think that I find most dramatic in this book is the way women have suffered through history because of man's and humankinds ignorance and fears.

 The way in which Deliverance Dane was persecuted by other women of her time, the lack of knowledge of their own bodies and how they functioned, their quickness to condemn others is just appalling. When You consider that it was not until the 60's early 70's that women of our time were just beginning to discover their own selfhood. And that there are still countries today where fear and supersition rule over women.  This was presented so dramatically in this book and

I appreciate that these things were mentioned.

[Fozzie]

Thanks for the translation!  I was dying to know what was being said.

I don't recall Temperance being mentioned either.

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

I knew Connie was going to revive the dead plants! Hmmm, that could come in handy as I've had more than a few of the crispy brown little creatures.

The plant incantation is actually a prayer. The first part goes something like...FATHER IN HEAVEN, I BEG YOUR GENEROSITY/KINDNESS....WASTED PLANT...but I couldn't translate the rest.

I must have missed something about Temperance Hobbs. Can anyone recall a reference? I guess she must be the link between Sophie & Patience. What do you all think?

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[Fozzie]

Me too!  There are no details given in the book.  She must have stolen it.

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

I wonder how Connie got the book out of the library. I assume that they would not lend rare old books out for take home.

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[ponie]

I know not everyone can keep current on all the threads so I'm posting this here.  This could constitute a posting faux pas (but I hope not; and if so please forgive).

Members of the Minnesota contingent, check The Community Room thread for a message.

[DSaff]

Good questions, Piper. I think Chilton has been spying on Connie more than I thought. That is just creepy. He is an arrogant man, but desperation is the word I would use to describe him now. He NEEDS the book to prove his point, and maybe for more.....

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PiperMurphy wrote:

I've been thinking about Chilton because he is such an intreging character. I've got a couple questions.

How did Chilton know about Sam? I may have missed something, but I don't remember that Connie mentioned Sam to him. Her meetings with Chilton were all business. Also, she wasn't letting on that the relationship was important to her. Chilton did say that he had been doing his own research, but he doesn't reveal what it was.

Also, why was Chilton so convinced that the physick book was his missing link? He only had Connie's description to go by and she was calling it a recipe book. Maybe it was his arrogance? Wishful thinking? Desperation?

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[MSaff]

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Danimal79 wrote:

I thought the selections from the King James Bible (at the beginning of Part II) were very interesting, particularly the first one:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."  

The "word of God" and the role that God plays in relation to Connie and her Puritan ancestors is seen again and again throughout this book.  I'm very curious to see how this connection will play out!

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Danimal79,

  You are so right.  Religion played the primary goal in the lives of Puritans in the 1690s, and I think that with each of the women, such as Deliverance through Connie, religion was at the center of their being.  This is why I believe they prayed when mixing the potions and attempted to heal the sick.

[MSaff]

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meme1 wrote:
Have I missed something?  One of the women at the Salem Trial cast a spell on Applegate's ailing foot.  Has there been something in the story to connect an incident to this?

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Hi meme1, 

  I don't think that you have missed anything.  I believe the scene you are thinking of during the Salem Witch Trials happens in The Crucible.  I don't recall any spells being placed on Applegate in this novel, however, I could be wrong and missed it myself. 

[TRJ4SQ]

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meme1 wrote:
Have I missed something?  One of the women at the Salem Trial cast a spell on Applegate's ailing foot.  Has there been something in the story to connect an incident to this?

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meme, I think what your refering to is located in the first Interlude during Deliverance's slander trial. Check out pages 50-53. Hope that helps!

Message Edited by TRJ4SQ on 04-16-2009 05:22 PM

[TRJ4SQ]

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PB684 wrote:

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

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PiperMurphy wrote:

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TRJ4SQ wrote:

I knew Connie was going to revive the dead plants! Hmmm, that could come in handy as I've had more than a few of the crispy brown little creatures.

The plant incantation is actually a prayer. The first part goes something like...FATHER IN HEAVEN, I BEG YOUR GENEROSITY/KINDNESS....WASTED PLANT...but I couldn't translate the rest.

I must have missed something about Temperance Hobbs. Can anyone recall a reference? I guess she must be the link between Sophie & Patience. What do you all think?

---

The only reference to Temperance Hobbs is her portrait. I also assumed that she was a link between Sophie and Patience.

---

Thanks for helping me clarify that! 

Wonder if the author is saving this mystery for a "big bang" later. Do you think she'll show up again?

---

I'm hoping that we will see Temperance Hobbs in a sequel. I too wondered why she was mentioned only briefly...and did you pick up on the mention of a dog?

PB684

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Temperance in a sequel! It's just too juicy to think about!

I missed the mention of a dog but now  I HAVE to go back and look! Thanks!

[TRJ4SQ]

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ponie wrote:

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CJINCA wrote:

Following up on DSaff's excellent post -- 

Like DSaff, I wondered whether Sam being at the "unfortuante mate" stage indicates that is Connie pregnant with the next little Faith or Hope?  The spell in the book is to see if Sam's suffering from "bewitchment" -- is that a side effect of falling in love with a witch or is there another witchy force at work?  If she cures him, will she lose her gift?

-- C.

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Faith or Hope, I love the names and what they mean.  They could all use (a little) Charity! Could Connie be pregnant?  Was it that night on the beach???

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Oh Ponie, You're such a romantic!