Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21

[DSaff]

Excellent idea! This makes so much sense.

---

LoBugs wrote:

Something that struck me in this section of the reading is that no matter which generation you are in the mother's never come right out and tell the daughter's that they in fact are witches. They very carefully talk all around the subject without ever saying the actual words. I became very aware of it when Connie and Grace are talking about it on the phone. It was like Grace could not get off the phone fast enough. Almost like she was afraid she would spill the beans.  It made me wonder if they can't because of an ill effect it could cause to themself or to the daughters, or if it is as simple as it became taboo due to it's history? Maybe it's even more than all that, what if we all have the power to some exstent but we only gain the use of the power through self awareness of it's exsistence!

---

[DSaff]

I hadn't thought of that connection either. Good catch!

---

meme1 wrote:

I'm calmly reading this amazing story and connecting Connie to Deliverance when I finally realize that Sam is a connection to the girls who were having "fits".  I couldn't believe that it took me so long to make that connection.

I'm hoping that Sam will not be another unfortunate male in this family's history.  I'm thinking that Connie's "spell" will be strong and save him.

The sign on Connie's door is for her protection, not her danger; and her mother is the one who is responsible for it, I believe.  ~  But as I read the comments, I'm wondering if there is more to Chilton than I've been willing to accept and that he is involved in a positive way with the sign.

I'm ready to finish the story. 

---

[PiperMurphy]

---

rkubie wrote:

Why does Chilton say he's "not a sexist?" How does this lead Connie to find the book?

What are your feelings about Chilton now? Does Connie trust him? 

Connie has been looking for a book with no title, no publication date, and no author. What does this say about her quest? 

---

I've been waiting for this week to comment on Chilton so that I wouldn't spoil anything for anyone. I went back and reread Chapter 13 where Janine tells Connie about Chilton's belief in alchemy and Chapter 1 for Connie's oral exam. In Chapter 13, we find out that Chilton not only believes that alchemy is real, but he is obsessed with proving it. In Chapter 1, Chilton asks Connie "Have you not considered the distinct possibility that the accused were simply guilty of witchcraft?" So, we have a clue that Chilton might believe in witchcraft. Then on page 285 when he says he's "not a sexist" he makes a brilliant speech about the connection of alchemy with witchcraft, and that the piece that he needs for proof is the technique for the witchcraft. Then he tells us that most of the practitioners of witchcraft are women.

This is really a chilling speech. Chilton sounds crazed. You could almost feel Connie's fear. I think that Chilton honestly believes that he isn't a sexist because he is looking at the situation scientifically. Facts are facts. But, that has blinded him to the fact that he is calling the book by the wrong name. That's why he can't find it. If he had thought about how a woman would refer to such a book he might have found it. Instead he gives Connie the clue that she needs.

I haven't trusted Chilton from the beginning, but I think he is a fascinating character, especially after the scene in the library. Connie finds out once and for all that he is not the mentor that she thought he was. She realizes that he has to be stopped and she is the only one who can do it.

Connie never doubted that the book existed and that she would find it. It seems like an impossible task, but she used a logical and systematic approach to find it.  I think that she was acting on faith, but she was also acting within whatever powers or enchantments were in the house.

[JerseyAngel]

Chilton claims he isn't a sexist because scholars before him were never willing to consider women in their research, whether it be as subjects or to help them, and Chilton is. He understands that women were involved in witchcraft & therefore hold the key to his own research. This statement made Connie realize that since women were not considered equals their books would not be worthy of being in the same library and would be in the seperate library she hadn't yet looked in. This leads her to the discovery of the book.

I think Chilton is beyond wanting to further his career, he has something invested in proving this research that's a little person & he seems to be willing to stop at nothing to get it.

Stephanie

[julyso]

Oh, I really enjoyed these chapters! I loved it when she brought the spider plant to life and realizes she has the "gift."  Things are really starting to pick up now.

Clifton is a real creep. He is obssesed with the shadow book and it sure makes me wonder why...I like him less and less.

I only hope Connie can save Sam...

[nfam]

Connie comes into her own about seeing the potential of the messages that tell her that she is a withch, but she refuses to belive in her powers. If found the chaperts rather ho-hum. She knows she's doing something special. She doesn't need all the additional paraphanilia. She's going to save Sam. That's a good thing!!

[CJINCA]

---

maude40 wrote:
I loved this indicator of passing seasons on page 238, "She could tell that the summer was nearing it's end; this sunbeam used to fall across her waist when she awoke in Granna's four -poster bed, but it had been making it's way upward over the passing weeks, crossing the threshold of her chin around the end of July." Yvonne

---

Me too!  There is a lot of imagery (esp sunlight) and a lot of foreshadowing that will make re-reading this book very rewarding.

[libralady]

I don't think Connie has come into her own just yet, although I think she is "getting there."  I think that she is starting to accept that she does possess certain powers and that they are more than likely inherited.  I think she now realizes that the things that happened with the spider plant, the dandelion and then the scissors and sieve can not be ignored and can not be logically explained. However, I don't think she understands what all this truly means(that she is a witch). I think she is handling this revelation more calmly than I expected her to.

Message Edited by libralady on 04-14-2009 03:57 PM

[CJINCA]

Following up on DSaff's excellent post -- 

I second the kudos to Rachel, the questions (and discussions) have been very thought-provoking.  By reading this book with this group, I am reading more slowly and carefully and not just to find out what happens next.  (But the suspense is killing me!)  I will definitely re-read this book.

Like DSaff, I wondered whether Sam being at the "unfortuante mate" stage indicates that is Connie pregnant with the next little Faith or Hope?  The spell in the book is to see if Sam's suffering from "bewitchment" -- is that a side effect of falling in love with a witch or is there another witchy force at work?  If she cures him, will she lose her gift?

I am curious to see how the questions around alchemy get resolved.  Prof Chilton grows ever more depraved and desparate -- he believes Connie is the key to solving the mystery of eternal life and unlimited knowledge.  I don't think he's necessarily not-sexist, I think he'd happily use anybody, man or woman or dog, to get what he's after.

So many questions...and so little book left!  Putting it down was really, really hard...

-- C.

[Immortal-Spirit]

When Sam fell, I was thinking that Connie was getting close to finding that book.  But I have no idea why he and the other men in Connie's female ancestry was cursed. 

She is coming into her own by even trying the thing with the plant.  But she's still of course unsure.  Her logical mind won't allow her to think "outside the box" so to speak.

As a far as Chilton goes, I still don't trust him.  And I think that Connie has gone from being the scared, wanting to please her professor, student, to starting to see him for what he his. But I don't think she knows why and that itself bothers her.

I don't know why Chilton said he wasn't a sexist. But that comment lead her to thinking how men and society in general felt about "women's issues", so the other library was the natural choice.

Connie is more understanding of her mother than she was. But it isn't something they are talking about yet. It's simply an understanding.

[ponie]

---

CJINCA wrote:

Following up on DSaff's excellent post -- 

I second the kudos to Rachel, the questions (and discussions) have been very thought-provoking.  By reading this book with this group, I am reading more slowly and carefully and not just to find out what happens next.  (But the suspense is killing me!)  I will definitely re-read this book.

Like DSaff, I wondered whether Sam being at the "unfortuante mate" stage indicates that is Connie pregnant with the next little Faith or Hope?  The spell in the book is to see if Sam's suffering from "bewitchment" -- is that a side effect of falling in love with a witch or is there another witchy force at work?  If she cures him, will she lose her gift?

I am curious to see how the questions around alchemy get resolved.  Prof Chilton grows ever more depraved and desparate -- he believes Connie is the key to solving the mystery of eternal life and unlimited knowledge.  I don't think he's necessarily not-sexist, I think he'd happily use anybody, man or woman or dog, to get what he's after.

So many questions...and so little book left!  Putting it down was really, really hard...

-- C.

---

Faith or Hope, I love the names and what they mean.  They could all use (a little) Charity! Could Connie be pregnant?  Was it that night on the beach???

[Sassy398]

 Connie is starting to put alot of things together in her mind, and yes, she is realizing

 what her mother Grace has been trying to convey to her all along.

 I believe  mom and daughter are slightly getting closer, but on the other hand, I feel

 Connie is having a difficult time accepting that she too also inherited some powers.

 For Sam's sake I hope Connie is able to  help pull Sam through his illness.

 Chilton is an evil selfish man...he does not deserve Connie's help.

 The symbol burnt in Connie's grandma's door is definately for secuirty.

[lmpmn]

pg 287  quote from book:

          "I must warn you," he said, one index finger extended.  "You have every reason to want to find that book.  I am sure you know what I mean."

          She stared at him, saying nothing.  "And," he continued, pointing to the ticking light switch, "and you are almost out of time."

          As he said this the timer emitted a loud click, and Connie was swallowed up in darkness.

I think Chilton isn't just talking about her finding the book here.  I think he's talking about Connie helping Sam.  I think Chilton had something to do with Sam's illness.

Connie's understanding her mother more and more.  It's good to see that they will probably have a closer relationship in the future.

I wonder what will happen with the sale of the house.  I'd like to see it stay in the family.  I wonder if Grace actually intended to sell it at all, or if that was just an excuse for her to send Connie up there so she could get in tune with her past and her powers?

[Zeal]

---

LoBugs wrote:

Something that struck me in this section of the reading is that no matter which generation you are in the mother's never come right out and tell the daughter's that they in fact are witches. They very carefully talk all around the subject without ever saying the actual words. I became very aware of it when Connie and Grace are talking about it on the phone. It was like Grace could not get off the phone fast enough. Almost like she was afraid she would spill the beans.  It made me wonder if they can't because of an ill effect it could cause to themself or to the daughters, or if it is as simple as it became taboo due to it's history? Maybe it's even more than all that, what if we all have the power to some exstent but we only gain the use of the power through self awareness of it's exsistence!

---

Do you think this was because the women did not subscribe to the whole "witch" idea?  Deliverance truly believed that God's will was involved.  They all focused more on "healing" than spells, yet they did believe in the devil/evil taking hold of a person.  The power was also not automatic, but had to deal with the belief and intent (there was a specific word used, but for the life of me, I cannot find it now.

[Zeal]

---

meme1 wrote:

I'm calmly reading this amazing story and connecting Connie to Deliverance when I finally realize that Sam is a connection to the girls who were having "fits".  I couldn't believe that it took me so long to make that connection.

I'm hoping that Sam will not be another unfortunate male in this family's history.  I'm thinking that Connie's "spell" will be strong and save him.

The sign on Connie's door is for her protection, not her danger; and her mother is the one who is responsible for it, I believe.  ~  But as I read the comments, I'm wondering if there is more to Chilton than I've been willing to accept and that he is involved in a positive way with the sign.

I'm ready to finish the story. 

---

Yes, I finally made that connection too, but I found it interesting that all those mentioned were girls having fits.  Then came Sam.  Why weren't any males in this situation in the past?

[aprilh]

On page 263, Mercy is trying to come up with a "receipt" for time reversal so she can save Deliverance from being taken away. "...and, as she shuffled through the drawers in her mind looking for the words that she needed..." It reminded me of when Connie was searching her own mental drawers looking for the answers she needed for her oral qualifiying exam.

[Zeal]

Grace gave Connie a big, "Ah, Ha!/light bulb moment" on pg. 236 when she mentioned the 1690's, but Sam arrived before she could understand it completely.  Then we get the impression that Grace is going to warn Connie about something to do with Sam on pg. 237 when she calls out to her in an urgent voice, "Connie, wait--..."Is that him?"  This was a wonderful example of foreshadowing on Ms. Howe's part.

One of the most powerful passages in these chapters, I found on pg. 300.  I was horrified by the humiliation that the midwives put Deliverance through during their examination.  I could feel her embarrassment, shame, and pain.  Deliverance thinks, "Tis forever women leaping to condemn each other, she reflected...Women posed dangers to one another that they somehow did not pose to men.  It made me wonder if that same idea is true today.  If the midwives and other women had bonded together, would they have defeated the jury of men?  What made the women tell the lies and spread rumors about Deliverance and the others?  Jealousy?

[Tarri]

---

rkubie wrote:

What is the burnt mark on the door?

What are your feelings about Chilton now? Does Connie trust him? 

Rachel

---

I believe the burnt mark is for protection and think Grace sent the mark to protect Connie as Grace knows Connie's quest could be dangerous. 

I haven't like Chilton since the first time we met him and my distrust (and distaste) has grown.  Chilton is desperate to leave his mark on the academic world and he will use anyone he can find.  Connie has become wary of Chilton, but I think that a large part of her wants to believe he has her interests at heart.  

[Zeal]

---

PiperMurphy wrote:

---

rkubie wrote:

Why does Chilton say he's "not a sexist?" How does this lead Connie to find the book?

What are your feelings about Chilton now? Does Connie trust him? 

Connie has been looking for a book with no title, no publication date, and no author. What does this say about her quest? 

---

I've been waiting for this week to comment on Chilton so that I wouldn't spoil anything for anyone. I went back and reread Chapter 13 where Janine tells Connie about Chilton's belief in alchemy and Chapter 1 for Connie's oral exam. In Chapter 13, we find out that Chilton not only believes that alchemy is real, but he is obsessed with proving it. In Chapter 1, Chilton asks Connie "Have you not considered the distinct possibility that the accused were simply guilty of witchcraft?" So, we have a clue that Chilton might believe in witchcraft. Then on page 285 when he says he's "not a sexist" he makes a brilliant speech about the connection of alchemy with witchcraft, and that the piece that he needs for proof is the technique for the witchcraft. Then he tells us that most of the practitioners of witchcraft are women.

This is really a chilling speech. Chilton sounds crazed. You could almost feel Connie's fear. I think that Chilton honestly believes that he isn't a sexist because he is looking at the situation scientifically. Facts are facts. But, that has blinded him to the fact that he is calling the book by the wrong name. That's why he can't find it. If he had thought about how a woman would refer to such a book he might have found it. Instead he gives Connie the clue that she needs.

I haven't trusted Chilton from the beginning, but I think he is a fascinating character, especially after the scene in the library. Connie finds out once and for all that he is not the mentor that she thought he was. She realizes that he has to be stopped and she is the only one who can do it.

Connie never doubted that the book existed and that she would find it. It seems like an impossible task, but she used a logical and systematic approach to find it.  I think that she was acting on faith, but she was also acting within whatever powers or enchantments were in the house.

---

You totally have Chilton figured out!  I agree...excellent observations!

[aprilh]

I still do not like Professor Chilton. He's up to something with his "hungry gazes". He gives me the creeps! When the lights went out in the special collections library, Connie rounded the corner and turned the timer on flooding the stacks she was in with light. And there was Chilton standing right in front of her! I almost screamed out loud! He claimed he had only just arrived, but I'm not sure I believe him. Why did he not make it known that he was in the stacks? Was he trying to purposely scare Connie, or just catch her off guard? I'm wondering now if he has been following Connie all this time or how else could he have possibly known that she would be searching in those stacks, on that day, at that particular time? The only thing I can think of is if he had something to do with Sam's siezures. But then he would have to know Connie had a connection to Sam, making it necessary for her to find the book immediately. And unless he put something in Sam's water how else could he have made Sam sick except if he himself had some magical powers. Hmmmm......