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TRJ4SQ
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 16

I read a couple of forensic handwriting mysteries by Shelia Lowe a while back. Manning's writing margin to margin definitely means something but I can't remember what. I've been meaning to get The Complete Idiot's Guide Handwriting Analysis by Shelia Lowe & now I wish I had purchased it sooner.

 

If Professor Manning knew about the information from the auction house, why didn't he get the book himself? I'm thinking he wants to use Connie as a live example for his presentation.

 

Bring ME the book?? It's Connie's project so why should she take the book to HIM? I'm glad she is finally getting suspicious & picking up his bad vibes.

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TRJ4SQ
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 17

I love the character of the auction house book expert but I think I may have missed something. How did he know about Connie and why did he think she was a discerning collector?

 

I still can't figure out why Connie is hiding Sam from Grace. Any ideas on this?

 

It sounds like Grace is telling Connie that there will soon be a shift in the rhythm of life. It could be Connie's growing awareness but I think there is more.

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TRJ4SQ
Posts: 193
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 18 & INTERLUDE

CHAPTER 18: 

 

If Connie knows where the book may be, how can she not go and search for it? I'd be knocking the doors down!

 

Arlo is definitely a magical chameleon type character. Appearing here, materializing thereand blending with the background colors.

 

It's odd that before, Connie wouldn't touch the mandrake root and now she is turning it over in her hands wondering if it's safe for the compost pile. I think this subtly marks a change in her perspective showing less fear for the art.

 

I think Sam is bewitched and it happened when he drank the water judging from it's metallic taste. This theory is derived from the method of divination using the person's water and metal pins or nails. I assume it was done by Professor Chilton to encourage Connie to find the book faster.

 

INTERLUDE:

 

It’s cool that the author refers back to the shuffling on mental drawers to seek the solution for a pressing situation. Deliverance’s story seems headed for culmination as is Connie’s.

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TRJ4SQ
Posts: 193
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 19

Divination but key & Bible was actually practiced in various forms and is called cleidomancy or clidomancy.

 

This cool site has the “technical” names for other types of divination...

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/divination

 

The broom covered in wax that was standing in Sophie’s kitchen caught my attention. Can you imagine Sophie (or Connie) riding an old broom around?? (Witches on brooms-PG. 140)

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TRJ4SQ
Posts: 193
Registered: ‎03-10-2009

Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 20 & INTERLUDE

 CHAPTER 20:

 

Wasn't sure about this word so I checked out. Here's the info if anyone needs it too.

 

Sisyphean Definition: Sisyphean can be used as an adjective meaning that an activity is unending and/or repetitive. It could also be used to refer to tasks that are pointless and unrewarding.

 

I noted it interesting that the author references the old books absorbing the essence of former generations as is my belief. What arre your thoughts on this concept?

 

I think the keeper of the ultimate key is a woman. No man can hold the Philosopher’s stone. That's why Chilton needs Connie.

 

Grace mention’s the seasons are changing. I believe this to mean that instead of the book destroying the man in the keeper’s life, it now holds his salvation.

 

INTERLUDE:

 

All I can say is what a disgusting and degrading display.

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TRJ4SQ
Posts: 193
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 21 & INTERLUDE

I wonder how Connie got the book out of the library. I assume that they would not lend rare old books out for take home.

 

The element that Connie can’t quite put her finger on is the element of belief, intent or faith and is necessary to be successful in the incantation.

 

“Sure cure for fever & chills. Fuel for sure withdrawal.“ Modern language scrawls in the Physick book.....I wonder if Grace has left her mark.

 

INTERLUDE:

 

Can there be no hope for Deliverance? Will she be condemned for standing with her faith or for challenging the power of the deluded judges?

 

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DSaff
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 20 & INTERLUDE

I, like you, believe that books hold the essence of previous generations. We learn about culture, mores, fears, thoughts, activities, etc., from fiction and non-fiction. Some of my favorite reading is my grandmother's journals. Entries range from the weather and a brief description of daily life to detailed entries of the day, including some recipes and reminders. It is fascinating reading.


TRJ4SQ wrote:

 CHAPTER 20:

 

 

I noted it interesting that the author references the old books absorbing the essence of former generations as is my belief. What are your thoughts on this concept?

 


 

DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
My blog: http://bookworm56.blogspot.com
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BHall
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21


meme1 wrote:

I'm calmly reading this amazing story and connecting Connie to Deliverance when I finally realize that Sam is a connection to the girls who were having "fits".  I couldn't believe that it took me so long to make that connection.

 

I'm hoping that Sam will not be another unfortunate male in this family's history.  I'm thinking that Connie's "spell" will be strong and save him.

 

The sign on Connie's door is for her protection, not her danger; and her mother is the one who is responsible for it, I believe.  ~  But as I read the comments, I'm wondering if there is more to Chilton than I've been willing to accept and that he is involved in a positive way with the sign.

 

I'm ready to finish the story. 


 

Thanks for pointing out this connection between Sam & the girls who were having fits. 
Distinguished Wordsmith
Zeal
Posts: 258
Registered: ‎03-18-2009

Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21


Danimal79 wrote:

This book continues to be very exciting and I've had a hard time not reading ahead (I had to rely on other books as a distraction, after completing chapter 21!).

 

I don't get the feeling that Sam will die..mainly because I don't think Katherine Howe will close the book on such a sinister note.  Connie holds the key to his surviving but it seems as though she may be able to do so on her own..even without the help of the book.  Grace has said, numerous times, that Connie doesn't really need to find the book.  This implies to me that the book is simply an aid to Connie's innate abilities.

 

I was a little frustrated when Grace didn't attempt to warn Connie more thoroughly about Sam.  She did try to say something to her, while on the telephone, but it wasn't enough. But..maybe she couldn't prevent it from happening, no matter what she said to Connie??

 

My feelings about Chilton and the mistrust I have of him haven't changed..they've only intensified. Clearly he's using Connie as a pawn but what I'm interested in finding out is whether he actually knows of Connie's abilities (or her relationship to women who have such abilities) or if that is a pure coincidence.  Why has he selected Connie as the person to help him achieve his gains?  Are there other things about her that make her appealing to him and his designs?  Or does he already know that Connie will be able to use the book the way it was intended?  Also..why can't Chilton find the book himself?  Does he know the book will not work for him..the way the growing spell didn't work for Sam??

 

 

 

 


 

I too do not feel as if Sam will die.  He seems to be too much a part of Connie's life.  Sam has also served an important part in Connie's research.  She is now even more motivated to find the book, and Sam's sickness has not only helped her to recognize her "powers," but also to accept them more.

 

Grace is guiding Connie, and I believe that she feels as if she does not have the right to push Connie into recognizing her abilities or even using them.  Rather, Grace gives Connie just enough information and encouragement to lead her in the right direction if Connie desires.  I also think that is why Grace has ignored Connie's academic pursuits in the past...she does not feel as if that is the right path for Connie.

 

I suspect that Chilton does know about Connie's abilities to some extent...maybe not entirely.  If he doesn't know, maybe he guessed from the very beginning when Connie brought up her primary source...the book.  I also suspect that Chilton feels as if Connie's connections to the book will allow her to locate the book a lot faster than he could do himself.

"I learned to dream through reading, learned to create dreams through writing, and learned to develop dreamers through teaching. I shall always be a dreamer."
Sharon Draper
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Zeal
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21


aprilh wrote:

The scene at Granna's house when Connie is using the sieve and scissors to get answers to her questions was extremely powerful. Katherine Howe did such a wonderful job describing it, that I could see every detail clearly in my mind's eye: from the dent made in the cabinet, the scissors sunk into the jamb of the screen door, down to the chipped lime green paint of the colander! So far my favorite scene in the book!:smileyhappy:


 

Yes, I agree...excellent use of imagery!!
"I learned to dream through reading, learned to create dreams through writing, and learned to develop dreamers through teaching. I shall always be a dreamer."
Sharon Draper
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CathyB
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 18 & INTERLUDE

I too think that Chilton is responsible for Sam's condition. I don't think he has any 'magical' powers though - if he did he would have used them himself to find the book.

 

CathyB

 


TRJ4SQ wrote:

CHAPTER 18: 

 

If Connie knows where the book may be, how can she not go and search for it? I'd be knocking the doors down!

 

Arlo is definitely a magical chameleon type character. Appearing here, materializing thereand blending with the background colors.

 

It's odd that before, Connie wouldn't touch the mandrake root and now she is turning it over in her hands wondering if it's safe for the compost pile. I think this subtly marks a change in her perspective showing less fear for the art.

 

I think Sam is bewitched and it happened when he drank the water judging from it's metallic taste. This theory is derived from the method of divination using the person's water and metal pins or nails. I assume it was done by Professor Chilton to encourage Connie to find the book faster.

 

INTERLUDE:

 

It’s cool that the author refers back to the shuffling on mental drawers to seek the solution for a pressing situation. Deliverance’s story seems headed for culmination as is Connie’s.


 

 
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ponie
Posts: 359
Registered: ‎01-30-2009

Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 19


TRJ4SQ wrote:

Divination but key & Bible was actually practiced in various forms and is called cleidomancy or clidomancy.

 

This cool site has the “technical” names for other types of divination...

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/divination

 

The broom covered in wax that was standing in Sophie’s kitchen caught my attention. Can you imagine Sophie (or Connie) riding an old broom around?? (Witches on brooms-PG. 140)


 

Very interesting site...there are a whole lot of -mancies going on out there!!!!!

A -mancy for almost everything!!!

ponie
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PiperMurphy
Posts: 174
Registered: ‎09-19-2008

Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21


ponie wrote:

kiakar wrote:

dhaupt wrote:

maude40 wrote:
I can't imagine how the women and children got through the times in Salem during the witch trials. Pages 294-302 where Deliverance is jailed with 4 year old Dorcas Good and Goody Osborne was a very depressing section. You could almost feel the filth and the rats and the dampness and dank atmosphere they were forced to live in. I thought Ms. Howe wrote a vivid description of how conditions probably were during this horrilbe incident in history. Yvonne
Oh Yvonne, Dorcas just broke my heart and Deliverance became more important a character when she constantly tried to ease her suffering. The only evil monsters of the time where the accusers and the judges and jury.

 


Isn't it marvelous to look at what happened in this time period and know we have come along way in judging others. Not that we haven't got alot to learn but it feels good that we are definitely out of this horrible behavior. 

 

But you know, even today, people get so bound up in their beliefs and religions that they become self rightous in thinking their thinking is the only way.  And this is plain judging to me. When marches become like riots over abortion and the gay issue, we are still bound with that sheer smuckness, that our way of thinking is the only way. God is love. And Love is all about kindness, gentleness and respect. Would God approve of gay bashing and abortion riots? It doesn't sound like love to me, to indulge in hateful acts against our brothers and sisters of God. .


When the righteousness becomes self-righteousness, God is no longer involved. 

 

We all have a right to our beliefs, I think it's all too often HOW we defend those beliefs that breaks God's heart.


 

Isn't it ironic that the Puritans with their strict religious views were so quick to judge others in God's name when the Bible tells us that God is the only one with the right to judge? I suspect that he did have a broken heart.
"When I have a little money, I buy books; and if I have any left, I buy food and clothes."
~Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus~
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PiperMurphy
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 15


TRJ4SQ wrote:

I knew Connie was going to revive the dead plants! Hmmm, that could come in handy as I've had more than a few of the crispy brown little creatures.

 

 

The plant incantation is actually a prayer. The first part goes something like...FATHER IN HEAVEN, I BEG YOUR GENEROSITY/KINDNESS....WASTED PLANT...but I couldn't translate the rest.

 

I must have missed something about Temperance Hobbs. Can anyone recall a reference? I guess she must be the link between Sophie & Patience. What do you all think?


The only reference to Temperance Hobbs is her portrait. I also assumed that she was a link between Sophie and Patience.

"When I have a little money, I buy books; and if I have any left, I buy food and clothes."
~Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus~
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biljounc63
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21

[ Edited ]

aprilh wrote:

The scene at Granna's house when Connie is using the sieve and scissors to get answers to her questions was extremely powerful. Katherine Howe did such a wonderful job describing it, that I could see every detail clearly in my mind's eye: from the dent made in the cabinet, the scissors sunk into the jamb of the screen door, down to the chipped lime green paint of the colander! So far my favorite scene in the book!:smileyhappy:


 

I agree the scene was so real. I thought that I was there. The words of description just seemed to work. I am one who does not enjoy a book that a great deal of word just to fill the pages. I like getting to the point and move on from there. But for this lbook the words chosen simple worked.
Message Edited by biljounc63 on 04-15-2009 12:22 PM
Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body.
~ Joseph Addison ~

"Reading lets you visit the world of another"
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biljounc63
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21

[ Edited ]

I found that tone and the pace of part two to be very different from part one in a very good way. I felt that thing were beginning to go out of control for Connie as she discovers her powers. The way the book is written seems to follow that theme.

The mystery of the out of season garden is all coming together now for me. I guess the placement in the story for the out of season veggies come form nowhere so I took as being unbelievable. I stant corrected!

I wanted to finish the book as well but I am the type of person who can put and book down at any time and go back to it. I have something to look forward too this week end when I finish the book for the last week of discussion.

Message Edited by biljounc63 on 04-15-2009 12:29 PM
Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body.
~ Joseph Addison ~

"Reading lets you visit the world of another"
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ilenekm
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21

I am happy to be back on track with the book. I missed last weeks threads because I was behind in my reading.  I think this is a fantastic book. The descriptions make it all seem lifelike.  I was very surprised in chapter 20 to find out that Grace was a witch.  I had surmised that Connie's grandmother was and that perhaps Connie was based on events.  I assumed that Grace escaped to the southwest because she was different from her family.  I had a real  WOW  moment when Grace alluded to the fact that she was a witch and that Sam could probably suffer the same fact as Connies father and grandfather (and also Deliverance's husband and others).

 

I cant wait to read the last part of this book to see how things turn out for Sam and Connie and whether she is pregnant with the next generation of witches.

 

Chilton does not bother me so much since I have spent much of my life in an academic setting.  There are plenty of advisor out there just like him. As a matter of fact, in science, work done during grad school in an advisors lab, is 'owned' by the advisor. Maybe history should be different.

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fordmg
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 17


TRJ4SQ wrote:

I love the character of the auction house book expert but I think I may have missed something. How did he know about Connie and why did he think she was a discerning collector?

 

I still can't figure out why Connie is hiding Sam from Grace. Any ideas on this?

 

It sounds like Grace is telling Connie that there will soon be a shift in the rhythm of life. It could be Connie's growing awareness but I think there is more.


 

I think Connie called the auction house ahead of time to say what she was looking for.  That is why the expert was looking up her info as she came in.   I think he made an assumption about Connie based on her inquiry.

MG

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MSReader
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Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21


rkubie wrote:

What an exciting week for revelations! Thanks to all who have so patiently waited through the holidays for our next chapters!

 

Connie not only comes into her own with her "research" coming to fruition, but also recognizes her own powers and recognizes her own family of women, whose "first names traced a lineage that was undeniable."

 

If Connie now sees that Grace has these significant and ancient powers, but just wrapped up in the language and style of her time, then, what would Connie's language and style be? How can she "come into her own" as a witch as well? Has she done this yet?

 

Is Sam one of the "unfortunate" men of this line? Is Grace right? What do you supposed has "cursed" them? What are his "fitts?" What do you predict for Sam? (Of course, for those who haven't read ahead yet!)

 

What is "practicing" with Key and Bible?

 

What is the burnt mark on the door?

 

Why does Chilton say he's "not a sexist?" How does this lead Connie to find the book?

 

What are your feelings about Chilton now? Does Connie trust him? 

 

Connie has been looking for a book with no title, no publication date, and no author. What does this say about her quest? 

 

How are the revelations of these chapters changing Connie? Has her relationship with her mother changed now?

 

I'm really looking forward to hearing the questions and comments on this section! I'm impressed at how many have made excellent predictions about some of our twists and turns from early on!

 

Rachel


I was out of town last weekend and meant to only read a few more chapters while on my flight.  Well, much to my chagrin, I could not put the book down and finished it in it's entirety before I arrived in my destination!!

As I look through these questions, I find it hard to answer now knowing the rest of the novel...Let's see...

I remember thinking that Sam's fall was not coincidental, but someone or something was a cause for it.  I thought it was unbelievable that his fits would be the typical epilepsy since I had never heard of epilepsy suddenly occurring after a fall.  I am not a doctor, however, so I guess I don't know for sure if that could be possible or not.

The mark on the door had me stumped from its first mention.  I thought it meant something evil all along but couldn't fathom who placed it there.  Once it was revealed I was pleasantly surprised and had an 'Aha' moment about Grace...

Connie is absolutely determined to find the book at whatever cost.  I, myself, would've found it nearly impossible to search for a work with no title, author, etc.  Determination is a great character trait to possess!

I am glad that Connie has found a new respect for Grace and fully accepts her as she is.  As for Connie learning her new traits, I have no doubt that she will make the best of her ability and do no unneccessary harm...

One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time~ Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)
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Fozzie
Posts: 2,404
Registered: ‎10-19-2006

Re: Part 11, Chapters 15 - 21

I haven't read the responses by others yet, but here are some of my thoughts:

 

First, I have to say, I am so glad that those dead hanging plants came in handy!  LOL!

 

I think Sam is one of the men of the line, and so does Connie's mother.  However, when I read about the metallic taste in Sam's beverage, I immediately thought of arsenic poisoning, unfortunately, because I live in the same state where a group of people were poisoned by arsenic laced coffee at a church gathering a few years ago.  (article

 

I was surprised to read that Connie's Mom put the burnt mark on Connie's door, at least she sure infers that she did.  Afterall, who would want to protect Connie more than she would.

 

I have enjoyed watching Connie's and her mother's relationship develop and grow.  I think Connie is finally beginning to respect and understand her mother.  I think they could be very close in many ways due to their unusual similarities and powers, if they focused on those rather than focusing on their differences.

 

And I had to laugh when even Connie's  mother found herself exasperated with Connie on page 291:

 

"Really, Constance.  Sometimes it's like you simply refuse to see what is right in front of you."

Laura

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.